Archived Passive/aggressive System Suggestion.

[Osowiec]

Hello, Lord Corgi here to suggest a wonderful system I spotted.

Now recently I was playing on another server, and noticed that they have a system implemented that allows some factions to be 'Passive' and others to be 'Aggressive'. The idea is to allow factions, and players that simply wish to build and RP do so. While others who simply wish to conquer and strike down puny humans can do so. Now, there are issues we'll have to buff out. And, I encourage constructive criticism within the comment section.

(Also, I believe this idea was a suggestion before. Can't remember though.)

Let's list some pros & cons of this system.

Pros:
-More RP-Based factions can thrive.
-Peaceful people who simply wish to build can be protected inside their own lands.
-RP based wars can occur, and maybe even propaganda become a way Passive factions battle?

Cons:
-Less actual war, which could mean less gear on the market. (Possibly good?)
-Factions could switch to passive whilst tiny, and then aggressive when they become big. (Possibly fixed by costing loads of regals to switch modes?)
-Factions could switch to passive straight after a raid, and not get raided back. (Still, possibly fixable.)
-Players could switch to passive whilst in wilderness, or when randomly getting raided. (Could be fixed by not allowing passive when in wilderness, and costing a small amount of regals to switch.)

If you find anything wrong with this, or want more information. Please, comment on the thread. I'll attempt my best to debate against you, and answer your questions. (Let's keep it civil.)

 

[favoured]

Well, part of the charm of raiding or pvp is that people don't want to get raided. That's why it can sometimes be a successful diplomatic tool, raiding people to get them to move out of a plot of land that used to be yours, or killing players being general trolls in the community. I can also see the passive ability used as a tool for trolling, as invincible people simply wandering into other people's lands and spam chat, invulnerable to any retaliation. The threat of being raided on Massivecraft forms the basis of many alliances or even empires, as people hope to find some kind of shelter against raiders. Removing raiding may be sweet in the short term, but I can't help but wonder if it'll do more harm than good in the long term.

 

[Osowiec]

Well, part of the charm of raiding or pvp is that people don't want to get raided. That's why it can sometimes be a successful diplomatic tool, raiding people to get them to move out of a plot of land that used to be yours, or killing players being general trolls in the community. I can also see the passive ability used as a tool for trolling, as invincible people simply wandering into other people's lands and spam chat, invulnerable to any retaliation. The threat of being raided on Massivecraft forms the basis of many alliances or even empires, as people hope to find some kind of shelter against raiders. Removing raiding may be sweet in the short term, but I can't help but wonder if it'll do more harm than good in the long term.

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Your point is quite valid. So, I suppose I shall debate the fact of countering that situation. Now, if a player who has chosen Passive walks into faction land that is Aggressive, they are listed as Aggressive in those lands. Therefore, they can't simply walk up and go: "#42blazeit!" You can kill anyone, passive or not, in your faction lands as long your faction is in a state of aggression.

Now, you do bring up a good point about fear-mongering through raiding and how it's a great tool for diplomacy. So, let's attempt using a system already in place:

An aggressive faction can declare war on a passive. But only if the aggressive faction's power outmatches the passive's factions power, and that of it's allies. So, in turn, an aggressive faction can't raid a passive faction that is friends with other strong passive factions. Of course, if the aggressive factions and it's allies outmatch the power of the opposing 'empire' then they can raid it. Which in all reality makes sense. Larger empires beat smaller empires, and it keeps trolls whom I would assume don't have large amounts of friends (and even if they did, I'm certain you could convince them to destroy that alliance.) and, those that have taken your land. Who most likely are new, and have a feeble alliance.

Though, even that system could take time to implement. And, most certainly has holes. So, I encourage constructive criticism against my two claims.

 

[favoured]

Your point is quite valid. So, I suppose I shall debate the fact of countering that situation. Now, if a player who has chosen Passive walks into faction land that is Aggressive, they are listed as Aggressive in those lands. Therefore, they can't simply walk up and go: "#42blazeit!" You can kill anyone, passive or not, in your faction lands as long your faction is in a state of aggression.

Now, you do bring up a good point about fear-mongering through raiding and how it's a great tool for diplomacy. So, let's attempt using a system already in place:

An aggressive faction can declare war on a passive. But only if the aggressive faction's power outmatches the passive's factions power, and that of it's allies. So, in turn, an aggressive faction can't raid a passive faction that is friends with other strong passive factions. Of course, if the aggressive factions and it's allies outmatch the power of the opposing 'empire' then they can raid it. Which in all reality makes sense. Larger empires beat smaller empires, and it keeps trolls whom I would assume don't have large amounts of friends (and even if they did, I'm certain you could convince them to destroy that alliance.) and, those that have taken your land. Who most likely are new, and have a feeble alliance.

Though, even that system could take time to implement. And, most certainly has holes. So, I encourage constructive criticism against my two claims.

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While your idea does sound nice, I personally don't think its very practical. Let's say you have a small passive faction that just started, barely any allies. Then it gets raided by an alliance of 5 aggressive factions, each of them powerhouses. Me thinks that the "passive" rating will be less effective in this situation than a Kleenex shield, and that a ragequit is in the foreseeable future. Also, making a plugin to calculate the power of all of a faction's allies would take a LOT of coding. There's also the fact that for some of the larger passive factions, they would be effectively invincible due to the large amount of "casual" allies. You know those kind of allies, the ones you say "hello" to once in a blue moon. Some factions may just say in global "Yo, anyone want to ally for the bonus power?" The pvp community would effectively die off, which would be kind of a bad thing.

 

[65jes89]

Honestly, as nice as this might be for roleplyers, this would ruin PvP. The idea of raiding small factions is usually because they did something to piss you off, wether that be insulting you, grieving, or attacking an ally. PvP allowes you to fight back, but if people can become invinsible, it kinda makes it all pointless.

 

[Osowiec]

While your idea does sound nice, I personally don't think its very practical. Let's say you have a small passive faction that just started, barely any allies. Then it gets raided by an alliance of 5 aggressive factions, each of them powerhouses. Me thinks that the "passive" rating will be less effective in this situation than a Kleenex shield, and that a ragequit is in the foreseeable future. Also, making a plugin to calculate the power of all of a faction's allies would take a LOT of coding. There's also the fact that for some of the larger passive factions, they would be effectively invincible due to the large amount of "casual" allies. You know those kind of allies, the ones you say "hello" to once in a blue moon. Some factions may just say in global "Yo, anyone want to ally for the bonus power?" The pvp community would effectively die off, which would be kind of a bad thing.

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Honestly, as nice as this might be for roleplyers, this would ruin PvP. The idea of raiding small factions is usually because they did something to piss you off, wether that be insulting you, grieving, or attacking an ally. PvP allowes you to fight back, but if people can become invinsible, it kinda makes it all pointless.

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Alright, I do believe I'm outdone here. I don't know of any way to allow this, and keep the pvp community alive. The system, in itself, was intended for a server of more peaceful purpose. If anyone can figure out a way to make this work for both sides of the spectrum, they're open to do so. So far, I'm quite defeated.

 

[Gwyndo]

This has my agree.
Looking at your replies to what people have said, despite you thinking you're defeated, I honestly think this is great.
Really, it's not the idea that's going to be bad, it's what people might do to exploit it.

Same could be said with the locking system, as people can create locked walls using signs. They're against the rules, and the same could happen to this if rules were put in place =)

 

[1000phoenix]

I support this idea being the owner of a small faction. I dont pvp, and I dont raid unless we need supplies in which we just recycle abandoned bases. Im passive. I dont intend to up my mcmmo. I came for the rp. If my faction was able to go passive I would use it.

 

[BenRekt]

As far as I can tell this will never go through considering it will reck the whole PvP experience on Massive.

 

[Luthien]

I mis-read this as "Passive aggressive system suggestion" and was expecting pre-set passive aggressive console warnings when you spam or something

"[console]: Slam that trapdoor one more time and i'll slam you out of existence"

 

[starkiller_117]

I mis-read this as "Passive aggressive system suggestion" and was expecting pre-set passive aggressive console warnings when you spam or something

"[console]: Slam that trapdoor one more time and i'll slam you out of existence"

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Can this be a thing please?

 

[1000phoenix]

I mis-read this as "Passive aggressive system suggestion" and was expecting pre-set passive aggressive console warnings when you spam or something

"[console]: Slam that trapdoor one more time and i'll slam you out of existence"

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That didnt exactly sound passive aggressive. Now if the server talked s**t about you to other players behind your back then it becomes passive aggressive.

 

[Tokuu]

This idea... As good as it looks on the surface, I believe the nail has been hit on the head. It will ruin the PvP community, most of which keep the server alive. People may not like being raided, but that's how everyone feels from time to time. This feeling of being defenseless, however, can be offset by building traps, a small time training to learn basic PvP skills, and an overall careful design of the city so everyone has somewhere safe to get to in times of battle. If this were to be implemented, the proxy war that is Magnanimus/Grimsbane Vs. Libris/Crypt/Damorn would be the ONLY MAJOR conflict. Small factions would become passive, people wouldn't learn to fight. PvPers would get bored and find another server to play on. On the face of it, the idea is good. However, it is my opinion that, when delved into somewhat further, it is fairly flawed, can be abused, and would be detrimental as a whole toward the server

 

[1000phoenix]

Honestly I think people are missing the point here. This suggestion seems to have been placed to seperate the rp factions from the pvp factionsn rp factions dont want to be hit because theyre easy targets (they dont constantly work on mcmmo) which results in them losing the hard to get lore items they have acquired. Pvpers are ruthless and generally dont care. it seems like a good idea to keep the two seperate.

 

[Osowiec]

I do suppose this would have a good chance of destroying PvP. That is why I was hoping we could look at those flaws, and figure out way to counter-act them. Though, I do suppose even if we did that. We wouldn't have the resources for it.

(Still, that passive aggressive system Luthien said doesn't sound bad. )

 

[Rinus]

To prevent some of the exploits possible with this you could have a long cooldown. Like a week or 2 of a cooldown before an aggressive faction can become passive and vice-versa.
Another idea might be to have passive as less of a overall protection scheme for everyone and more of a protection for small, starting out factions. The protection would also cost a fair bit more to make it less of a "let's jump straight to this!" option. Factions could choose to have maybe at most 2 months of passive for a fee of say, 700-800r more, providing their faction is still quite small, maybe below 15 players. This means that larger factions will have to learn to fight if they want to grow in size, and smaller factions have enough time to gather their resources and build up their starting point before being attacked.

 

[favoured]

Honestly I think people are missing the point here. This suggestion seems to have been placed to seperate the rp factions from the pvp factionsn rp factions dont want to be hit because theyre easy targets (they dont constantly work on mcmmo) which results in them losing the hard to get lore items they have acquired. Pvpers are ruthless and generally dont care. it seems like a good idea to keep the two seperate.

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Well the thing is, do we want to separate the rp factions from pvp factions? I mean, a lot of the epic wars on Massivecraft have come from pvpers being attacked. Huge world wars that everyone eventually enjoyed have been created from people wanting to avoid being raided. Being raided feels like bashing your head into a brick wall, but in my opinion it just makes peacetime more enjoyable. You start really having an appreciation for peace and quiet once you've been killed a few hundred times by a godpvper with an absurdly high axes skill.

 

[Suzzie]

Well the thing is, do we want to separate the rp factions from pvp factions? I mean, a lot of the epic wars on Massivecraft have come from pvpers being attacked. Huge world wars that everyone eventually enjoyed have been created from people wanting to avoid being raided. Being raided feels like bashing your head into a brick wall, but in my opinion it just makes peacetime more enjoyable. You start really having an appreciation for peace and quiet once you've been killed a few hundred times by a godpvper with an absurdly high axes skill.

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Some roleplay factions aren't fighting factions, you know.
It could be better for them /not/ to be attacked.

 

[1000phoenix]

Some roleplay factions aren't fighting factions, you know.
It could be better for them /not/ to be attacked.

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Theres a reason for a faction to have the roleplay title and not a pvp title. Because they do not pvp nor do all of them want to.

 

[favoured]

Some roleplay factions aren't fighting factions, you know.
It could be better for them /not/ to be attacked.

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Gah sorry, twas a typo. I meant to say a lot of wars started from roleplay factions being attacked. Anyway I understand that 95% of roleplay factions are not fighting factions, but that just makes it more interesting for alliances and empires to form. I used to own a faction that was primarily survival. We had around 60 members and I think maybe 2-3 of us were premium or had more than 200 in a combat skill. We would get completely wrecked by raiders, but I never really wanted pvpers to be completely unable to declare war on us or raid us. Raiding made things interesting for us, as we started making more and more traps and getting better at keeping a professional attitude during raids. Town getting raided? Start a giant underground city area for citizens to go to. Don't really like the idea of an underground city? Mountains are great as natural forts, and can be almost impregnable if fortified properly.

You state that it might be better for roleplay factions not to get attacked. This may be true, but let's take a deeper look at "better". Better is a subjective word, changing depending on the style of player you are. Pvpers would love the server to have more pvp aspects in order to be "better". Roleplayers presumably don't want to get bashed in the head with an axe by raiders while they're just trying to go about their business. Survival players, such as me, have a kind of a love-hate relationship with pvp. I love how raiding and pvp can create interesting inter-faction politics and force the formation of empires. I hate dying over and over again to pvpers, making me feel helpless and frustrated. A discussion on changes to the pvp community, no matter how minor, will always be complicated as the different types of players on this server all have conflicting points of view.

Theres a reason for a faction to have the roleplay title and not a pvp title. Because they do not pvp nor do all of them want to.

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Once again, yeah, most roleplayers do not like pvp. However, making them invulnerable to war makes the whole thing have a rather negative effect on the pvp community. Sure it would be nice for roleplayers, but it takes away from a pvper's enjoyment of the game. To be honest, it kinda takes away from the normal survival player's enjoyment of the game. I don't usually like pvp, but sometimes its fun to throw your faction's weight around a little bit, to threaten other factions into taking actions which would be more beneficial for my own faction. Invulnerable roleplay factions would act as political deadweights in my opinion. Roleplay factions can be relatively safe without the addition of a "passive" ability. Osai is a great example. It was the most active faction on the server for awhile, had more than 40 players, and stayed safe through a mixture of strong allies and likability for a while before...uhh...that mess happened.

To summarize, I personally think the server would lose more than it would gain by allowing "passive" factions to exist, but I acknowledge this is purely based on my playstyle and that other's opinions will differ depending on their playstyles. Sorry for the wall of text, just kinda had to go off and let my thoughts loose for a bit

 

[1000phoenix]

Gah sorry, twas a typo. I meant to say a lot of wars started from roleplay factions being attacked. Anyway I understand that 95% of roleplay factions are not fighting factions, but that just makes it more interesting for alliances and empires to form. I used to own a faction that was primarily survival. We had around 60 members and I think maybe 2-3 of us were premium or had more than 200 in a combat skill. We would get completely wrecked by raiders, but I never really wanted pvpers to be completely unable to declare war on us or raid us. Raiding made things interesting for us, as we started making more and more traps and getting better at keeping a professional attitude during raids. Town getting raided? Start a giant underground city area for citizens to go to. Don't really like the idea of an underground city? Mountains are great as natural forts, and can be almost impregnable if fortified properly.

You state that it might be better for roleplay factions not to get attacked. This may be true, but let's take a deeper look at "better". Better is a subjective word, changing depending on the style of player you are. Pvpers would love the server to have more pvp aspects in order to be "better". Roleplayers presumably don't want to get bashed in the head with an axe by raiders while they're just trying to go about their business. Survival players, such as me, have a kind of a love-hate relationship with pvp. I love how raiding and pvp can create interesting inter-faction politics and force the formation of empires. I hate dying over and over again to pvpers, making me feel helpless and frustrated. A discussion on changes to the pvp community, no matter how minor, will always be complicated as the different types of players on this server all have conflicting points of view.



Once again, yeah, most roleplayers do not like pvp. However, making them invulnerable to war makes the whole thing have a rather negative effect on the pvp community. Sure it would be nice for roleplayers, but it takes away from a pvper's enjoyment of the game. To be honest, it kinda takes away from the normal survival player's enjoyment of the game. I don't usually like pvp, but sometimes its fun to throw your faction's weight around a little bit, to threaten other factions into taking actions which would be more beneficial for my own faction. Invulnerable roleplay factions would act as political deadweights in my opinion. Roleplay factions can be relatively safe without the addition of a "passive" ability. Osai is a great example. It was the most active faction on the server for awhile, had more than 40 players, and stayed safe through a mixture of strong allies and likability for a while before...uhh...that mess happened.

To summarize, I personally think the server would lose more than it would gain by allowing "passive" factions to exist, but I acknowledge this is purely based on my playstyle and that other's opinions will differ depending on their playstyles. Sorry for the wall of text, just kinda had to go off and let my thoughts loose for a bit

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So from what it sounds like is you like to beat on defenseless Rp factions? How much fun is it to really beat on factions that don't have any way to really defend themselves? How could that possibly add to the pvp experience? Its a hollow victory.

 

[Tokuu]

So from what it sounds like is you like to beat on defenseless Rp factions? How much fun is it to really beat on factions that don't have any way to really defend themselves? How could that possibly add to the pvp experience? Its a hollow victory.

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The idea being that each faction should be able to at least try and defend themselves during a raid. This is based upon Medieval times, my friend, and in those times, if someone just said "Thou cannot attack-eth us, for we are the peace loving pygmies of Umboto gorge, and do not fight" (Blackadder reference), people would just laugh and slaughter them harder. Each faction is made so that the leader and officers are responsible for the lives of those beneath them. That's how it works. Taking that away takes away a huge aspect of the server from many, many players. I'm sorry, but I cannot agree with this idea under the current premises. It's just too flawed

 

[Gwyndo]

Changing from Passive to Agressive costs 2000 regals. Amazing money sink.

Being in a passive faction halfs your damage output, and health, but makes you immune to damage in your own land. Stops abuse of the system perhaps?

If a faction goes to war with you, and gets approved, they can attack you regardleess of whether or not you're Passive, thus making PVP still a thing that can happen, nad surrendering a valid, great option.

 

[Tokuu]

Changing from Passive to Agressive costs 2000 regals. Amazing money sink.

Being in a passive faction halfs your damage output, and health, but makes you immune to damage in your own land. Stops abuse of the system perhaps?

If a faction goes to war with you, and gets approved, they can attack you regardleess of whether or not you're Passive, thus making PVP still a thing that can happen, nad surrendering a valid, great option.

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This is still better, but then, still, small factions wouldn't ever get a real taste of PvP since they could surrenderwith max tribute with ease. Personally, I like the system as it is. There doesn't seem need to change something that already works.

"If it ain't broke, don't fix it"

 

[Kezlok]

Changing from Passive to Agressive costs 2000 regals. Amazing money sink.

Being in a passive faction halfs your damage output, and health, but makes you immune to damage in your own land. Stops abuse of the system perhaps?

If a faction goes to war with you, and gets approved, they can attack you regardleess of whether or not you're Passive, thus making PVP still a thing that can happen, nad surrendering a valid, great option.

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I'll take this from my perspective of the case here if would your suggesting would become reality:

• It would cost me and all other leaders of PvP factions 2000r to attack other factions.
• Raids wouldn't exist anymore.
• Big pvp factions would have to declare war on extremely many factions in order to attack them.
• The war declaration database would be spammed by PvP factions which probably would annoy both the PvP'ers and the staff members alot because of the amount of time people would have to spend creating war declarations and getting them approved/rejected.

I do not wish this to happen.

 

[Gwyndo]

I'll take this from my perspective of the case here if would your suggesting would become reality:

• It would cost me and all other leaders of PvP factions 2000r to attack other factions.
• Raids wouldn't exist anymore.
• Big pvp factions would have to declare war on extremely many factions in order to attack them.
• The war declaration database would be spammed by PvP factions which probably would annoy both the PvP'ers and the staff members alot because of the amount of time people would have to spend creating war declarations and getting them approved/rejected.

I do not wish this to happen.

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-Well, regarding the first point, it'd be becoming Passive that cost the 2000 Regals.
-Raids can still happen from wars
-I think organisation to raids in the form of wars wouldn't be a bad thing.
-True.

 

[Tokuu]

-Well, regarding the first point, it'd be becoming Passive that cost the 2000 Regals.
-Raids can still happen from wars
-I think organisation to raids in the form of wars wouldn't be a bad thing.
-True.

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Upon the point of organisation of raids becomingsomething more like wars, unless I've got the wrong end of this, every raid that is done upon a faction is done so in the eventuality that it will become a war. Enemies aren't simply there to raid once a week, that's why most of the larger factions' enemies are actually a war, not just simple raids.


Also, off that topic, I used to run a faction, Morthion,which I used to simply keep myself to myself, we were relatively peaceful and very large, capping 100 members at our peak. However, we got raided mercilessly by Mag in their undead crusade. This made me want to become a better PvPer, made me want to learn how to fight. With this system, people won't want to learn how to fight. It closes off a whole aspect of the server which many people enjoy

 

[1000phoenix]

Upon the point of organisation of raids becomingsomething more like wars, unless I've got the wrong end of this, every raid that is done upon a faction is done so in the eventuality that it will become a war. Enemies aren't simply there to raid once a week, that's why most of the larger factions' enemies are actually a war, not just simple raids.


Also, off that topic, I used to run a faction, Morthion,which I used to simply keep myself to myself, we were relatively peaceful and very large, capping 100 members at our peak. However, we got raided mercilessly by Mag in their undead crusade. This made me want to become a better PvPer, made me want to learn how to fight. With this system, people won't want to learn how to fight. It closes off a whole aspect of the server which many people enjoy

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As the faction leader of algona I took the opposite view. I dont want to waste my time against mcmmo level farming pvpers who are already overly powered. For me to catch up would require me to waste precious free time of continuous farming. Now you say a system like this would take away from the rp because it prevents random wars. Eh I dont think so and would rather prefer not to have a pvp war and to just rp something like that because pvpers are already over powered.

 

[Tokuu]

As the faction leader of algona I took the opposite view. I dont want to waste my time against mcmmo level farming pvpers who are already overly powered. For me to catch up would require me to waste precious free time of continuous farming. Now you say a system like this would take away from the rp because it prevents random wars. Eh I dont think so and would rather prefer not to have a pvp war and to just rp something like that because pvpers are already over powered.

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I never once said it would take away from the RP community. It will take away from the PvP community. There is already a PvP disabled area to RP in, Regalia. Disabling PvP even more will be detrimental. If you don't want to fight, make safe rooms. Hell, make your /f home into an impregnable bunker. That way, you can't get raided. There are ways around getting raided, turning factions into peaceful power blocks isn't the way to do that.

 

[1000phoenix]

I never once said it would take away from the RP community. It will take away from the PvP community. There is already a PvP disabled area to RP in, Regalia. Disabling PvP even more will be detrimental. If you don't want to fight, make safe rooms. Hell, make your /f home into an impregnable bunker. That way, you can't get raided. There are ways around getting raided, turning factions into peaceful power blocks isn't the way to do that.

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Ok well then. There are plenty of raidable pvp factions out there for the pvp community to jump on. What is the problem with letting a few RP factions that dont wish to take part in the pvp have a choice besides having to waste materials on building a bunker to defend against something they dont want to take part in?

 

[Tokuu]

Ok well then. There are plenty of raidable pvp factions out there for the pvp community to jump on. What is the problem with letting a few RP factions that dont wish to take part in the pvp have a choice besides having to waste materials on building a bunker to defend against something they dont want to take part in?

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It doesn't have to be a bunker. A town hall with a closed door would work just as well. There never has to be anything wasted. Careful city planning can offset how effectively you can be raided, by allowing each person the optimal time to get indoors. Everyone is subjected to things they may not like, it is how we deal with these things that allow us to move forward together.

Just because something benefits one group, doesn't mean that it can benefit another. There used to be no rules on raiding at all. Anyone could raid whoever they wanted, whenever they wanted, for as long as they wanted. This was changed, to allow people chance to properly defend, build, fortify and train. Now, to defend you don't have to do all of those, just one or two. A suggestion should benefit the server as a whole, not a specific targeted group, and should not have detrimental effects toward the rest of the server. Again, I am sorry, but I feel I have made a valid enough point that this idea is not good enough to be put into place, in my personal opinion

 

[1000phoenix]

It doesn't have to be a bunker. A town hall with a closed door would work just as well. There never has to be anything wasted. Careful city planning can offset how effectively you can be raided, by allowing each person the optimal time to get indoors. Everyone is subjected to things they may not like, it is how we deal with these things that allow us to move forward together.

Just because something benefits one group, doesn't mean that it can benefit another. There used to be no rules on raiding at all. Anyone could raid whoever they wanted, whenever they wanted, for as long as they wanted. This was changed, to allow people chance to properly defend, build, fortify and train. Now, to defend you don't have to do all of those, just one or two. A suggestion should benefit the server as a whole, not a specific targeted group, and should not have detrimental effects toward the rest of the server. Again, I am sorry, but I feel I have made a valid enough point that this idea is not good enough to be put into place, in my personal opinion

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You havnt pointed out how exactly this will take away from the pvp community. Like I said in my previous post there are plenty of PVP factions for everyone to attack. All this will be doing is keeping the PVP community off of the weaker RP community. As of right now what im seeing is the RP factions are getting the short end of the deal because you PVPers claim that a system like this will take away from your experience when in reality we're trying to keep you off of us because we do not want to take part obviously because this is not the first time ive seen this suggestion.

 

[Tokuu]

You havnt pointed out how exactly this will take away from the pvp community. Like I said in my previous post there are plenty of PVP factions for everyone to attack. All this will be doing is keeping the PVP community off of the weaker RP community. As of right now what im seeing is the RP factions are getting the short end of the deal because you PVPers claim that a system like this will take away from your experience when in reality we're trying to keep you off of us because we do not want to take part obviously because this is not the first time ive seen this suggestion.

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Basis of this argument: RPers can go to Regalia to get away, PvPers can't fight in Regalia
RPers can build safe buildings in their factions with either TP links or portals, PvPers can't get in them
The server has a nice balance between PvP and RP, this will take a chunk of targets away from the PvP community, unbalancing it massively in favour of RP. Warrenord, a quest world, which is pretty much the bridge between the two 'communities', has PvP disabled, and so is, alas undesirable, another place where raids cannot occur.

There are plenty of places where people can go to avoid PvP, to RP in peace. There is always the threat of being raided while in faction territory, that is what makes it more enjoyable, and means you have to think about how you do things. It also teaches you to be unafraid, and that, when you have a few members on, you need to be somewhat cautious about where you go, as the more members you have online, the more the threat of being raided becomes a reality.

((FYI, this is all from the perspective of someone who used to RP, and understands how hard it is to be raided for hours upon hours in a day, 7 days a week. If you have had that, I can sympathise with you somewhat, but I still disagree that this is the way to proceed, as I think that the system in place right now is good. It works, it's not broken, so does not need fixing))

 

[1000phoenix]

Basis of this argument: RPers can go to Regalia to get away, PvPers can't fight in Regalia
RPers can build safe buildings in their factions with either TP links or portals, PvPers can't get in them
The server has a nice balance between PvP and RP, this will take a chunk of targets away from the PvP community, unbalancing it massively in favour of RP. Warrenord, a quest world, which is pretty much the bridge between the two 'communities', has PvP disabled, and so is, alas undesirable, another place where raids cannot occur.

There are plenty of places where people can go to avoid PvP, to RP in peace. There is always the threat of being raided while in faction territory, that is what makes it more enjoyable, and means you have to think about how you do things. It also teaches you to be unafraid, and that, when you have a few members on, you need to be somewhat cautious about where you go, as the more members you have online, the more the threat of being raided becomes a reality.

((FYI, this is all from the perspective of someone who used to RP, and understands how hard it is to be raided for hours upon hours in a day, 7 days a week. If you have had that, I can sympathise with you somewhat, but I still disagree that this is the way to proceed, as I think that the system in place right now is good. It works, it's not broken, so does not need fixing))

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Either im a moron and not getting it or spotting a hole in your argument. Pvpers are still welcome to pvp with other pvpers and rpers can rp with out worry. I see no problem with this suggestion. Apparently rpers want pvpers to leave them alone and the main counter argument seems to be coming from pvpers who see that the easy targets presenting a solution to keep them away. The current system would probably be better if it werent for over powered level farmers making it difficult for rpers who spend most of their time rping instead of level farming.

 

[favoured]

Either im a moron and not getting it or spotting a hole in your argument. Pvpers are still welcome to pvp with other pvpers and rpers can rp with out worry. I see no problem with this suggestion. Apparently rpers want pvpers to leave them alone and the main counter argument seems to be coming from pvpers who see that the easy targets presenting a solution to keep them away. The current system would probably be better if it werent for over powered level farmers making it difficult for rpers who spend most of their time rping instead of level farming.

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So what you're basically saying is that limiting the number of factions pvpers can raid doesn't have a negative effect on the pvp community? I strongly disagree with that statement. I don't pvp that much myself, but I would imagine that the freedom to raid any faction you would like to is quite appealing for pvpers. Plus, being safe doesn't require that much of a time commitment. Have a plan when you get raided. Sure you'll probably die once, but if your faction home's secure then you sure aren't dying again unless you Leroy Jenkins it. A simple 2x2 tunnel or underground area between houses can make it so you can simply go underground and mine for a bit during raids, or roleplay with some of your faction members. Put a portal hall down there as well and boom, you can now visit allies and roleplay there as well. Really, the only reason you should be dying more than once in a raid is if you wanted to. Put in 1-2 hours and suddenly your faction is raidproof.

So from what it sounds like is you like to beat on defenseless Rp factions? How much fun is it to really beat on factions that don't have any way to really defend themselves? How could that possibly add to the pvp experience? Its a hollow victory.

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Once again, I disagree with you. I think you're getting the wrong message from what I originally meant to say. By no means do I wander around the map in full god armor, laughing as I ruin the days of defenseless roleplayers. The idea instead is to throw what little military might I have in support of certain sides of wars, in order to intimidate the opposition into standing down in certain cases. I've used that intimidation to force a faction to kick out a member that had recently stolen a large amount of materials from us, as well as shutting down rebellions in the empire I briefly ran. Why do you assume these would be a hollow victories? Just because the enemy can be sometimes easy to kill? That's not a hollow victory, it's just an easy victory, which is great.

Altogether, it seems like you think that rpers are helpless victims in a world of pvpers, no way to stay safe or avoid being killed over and over again, serving simply as cattle for evil gods with high MCMMO skills. In reality, all it takes is a practical town layout and boom, you're relatively safe.

 

[1000phoenix]

So what you're basically saying is that limiting the number of factions pvpers can raid doesn't have a negative effect on the pvp community? I strongly disagree with that statement. I don't pvp that much myself, but I would imagine that the freedom to raid any faction you would like to is quite appealing for pvpers. Plus, being safe doesn't require that much of a time commitment. Have a plan when you get raided. Sure you'll probably die once, but if your faction home's secure then you sure aren't dying again unless you Leroy Jenkins it. A simple 2x2 tunnel or underground area between houses can make it so you can simply go underground and mine for a bit during raids, or roleplay with some of your faction members. Put a portal hall down there as well and boom, you can now visit allies and roleplay there as well. Really, the only reason you should be dying more than once in a raid is if you wanted to. Put in 1-2 hours and suddenly your faction is raidproof.



Once again, I disagree with you. I think you're getting the wrong message from what I originally meant to say. By no means do I wander around the map in full god armor, laughing as I ruin the days of defenseless roleplayers. The idea instead is to throw what little military might I have in support of certain sides of wars, in order to intimidate the opposition into standing down in certain cases. I've used that intimidation to force a faction to kick out a member that had recently stolen a large amount of materials from us, as well as shutting down rebellions in the empire I briefly ran. Why do you assume these would be a hollow victories? Just because the enemy can be sometimes easy to kill? That's not a hollow victory, it's just an easy victory, which is great.

Altogether, it seems like you think that rpers are helpless victims in a world of pvpers, no way to stay safe or avoid being killed over and over again, serving simply as cattle for evil gods with high MCMMO skills. In reality, all it takes is a practical town layout and boom, you're relatively safe.

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1. Id rather not even die once because then I lose the items I have, and then my death gives the PVP satisfaction in which I dont want to give them that either.
2. If its an easy victory its a hollow victory. Theres no meaning to it if you dont put a little effort into it. thats what makes it hollow.
3. Why should I be forced into something I dont wish to take part in? Thats like being forced into a game of Monopoly when you dont want to play.
4. This is just giving some factions the option of going passive because they dont want to take part. It comes with a cost to switch back and forth so that limits the amount of pvp factions switching back and forth. And as for faction hoppers they will always be a problem. (there should be like a join/quit delay system too)

 

[Osowiec]

So what you're basically saying is that limiting the number of factions pvpers can raid doesn't have a negative effect on the pvp community? I strongly disagree with that statement. I don't pvp that much myself, but I would imagine that the freedom to raid any faction you would like to is quite appealing for pvpers. Plus, being safe doesn't require that much of a time commitment. Have a plan when you get raided. Sure you'll probably die once, but if your faction home's secure then you sure aren't dying again unless you Leroy Jenkins it. A simple 2x2 tunnel or underground area between houses can make it so you can simply go underground and mine for a bit during raids, or roleplay with some of your faction members. Put a portal hall down there as well and boom, you can now visit allies and roleplay there as well. Really, the only reason you should be dying more than once in a raid is if you wanted to. Put in 1-2 hours and suddenly your faction is raidproof.



Once again, I disagree with you. I think you're getting the wrong message from what I originally meant to say. By no means do I wander around the map in full god armor, laughing as I ruin the days of defenseless roleplayers. The idea instead is to throw what little military might I have in support of certain sides of wars, in order to intimidate the opposition into standing down in certain cases. I've used that intimidation to force a faction to kick out a member that had recently stolen a large amount of materials from us, as well as shutting down rebellions in the empire I briefly ran. Why do you assume these would be a hollow victories? Just because the enemy can be sometimes easy to kill? That's not a hollow victory, it's just an easy victory, which is great.

Altogether, it seems like you think that rpers are helpless victims in a world of pvpers, no way to stay safe or avoid being killed over and over again, serving simply as cattle for evil gods with high MCMMO skills. In reality, all it takes is a practical town layout and boom, you're relatively safe.

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See, you are saying: "Put in some time, and nobody can raid you." Yet, are we not saying the same thing? We both want the RP factions to become raid proof. If we work together I'm sure we can come to a consensus on this. What do you say?

 

[1000phoenix]

See, you are saying: "Put in some time, and nobody can raid you." Yet, are we not saying the same thing? We both want the RP factions to become raid proof. If we work together I'm sure we can come to a consensus on this. What do you say?

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This is exactly what we are saying. We could put in the time to prevent pvpers from coming in but that would require a box faction or really high walls which is against the rules

 

[BlueWasp]

I would like to simply state: this is a great idea. Rules can be made and be enforced.

Most anyone who disagrees so far hasn't looked at all the many angles (or at least that I've read).

If you strongly disagree, please feel free to spam the negative ratings (as long as you give me some feedback as well).

 

[JarlJade]

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You could always set all factions as aggressive by defult, then roleplay factions could maybe be able to apply for passive mode on the forums in a section or something? That way the roleplay factions don't get raided and the small nooby aggressive factions can still be hammered to near death by the pvpers. Also there would be no shifty changing of passive/agressive because you would need permission from the staff.

EDIT: Also there would be no need for a 2000 regal cost or anything like that.