Pacifist, Lol-raiding, And You.

Should the "No lol-raiding" rule be re-implemented?


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tyrabanksfanclub

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Large PvP factions have become largely menacing and in fact have thwarted many factions from progressing past the notorious noob stage. This has become increasingly dangerous now that Pacifist has been removed. Factions like Magnanimus and Raptum, most notably, have been widely regarded as lol-raiders. As the "No lol-raiding" rule has been removed, the lol-raiding factions now have been given even more of a reason to continue this practice. It's an obvious threat with an even more obvious solution. I believe that the playerbase will decrease significantly if said PvP factions actions are disregarded by staff. In attempts to repair the damaged playerbase due to EULA changes, I believe the "No lol-raiding" rule should be revised and re-implemented to keep from thwarting new or small factions from being wiped off the face of the server entirely. This will forestall the insatiable blood lust of the aforementioned factions as they will not be able to rack up hundreds of undeserving enemies within minutes as has been done in the past.

As proof that this danger is apparent already, I have attached a photo of Magnanimus' enemy list.
 

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When was the "No LOL Raiding" removed?
And this is unnecessary as my entire faction now has 40 members and I started it only 2 or 3 weeks ago, while being constantly raided, and none of the beginning members or the first to join were premium. All it takes is work, and many people don't want to go through the work it takes to get strong, when they can join a faction that is already strong. I do not see the problem with Magnanimus bullying, the problem I see is lack of effort.
 
Mag is on a server conquest still I think...that's basically the only one you need to watch for.
Raptum won't raid smaller factions unless one of their subfacs or friends fail raid and call them in...Or if you been a pain in their side...
 
Large PvP factions have become largely menacing and in fact have thwarted many factions from progressing past the notorious noob stage. This has become increasingly dangerous now that Pacifist has been removed. Factions like Magnanimus and Raptum, most notably, have been widely regarded as lol-raiders. As the "No lol-raiding" rule has been removed, the lol-raiding factions now have been given even more of a reason to continue this practice. It's an obvious threat with an even more obvious solution. I believe that the playerbase will decrease significantly if said PvP factions actions are disregarded by staff. In attempts to repair the damaged playerbase due to EULA changes, I believe the "No lol-raiding" rule should be revised and re-implemented to keep from thwarting new or small factions from being wiped off the face of the server entirely. This will forestall the insatiable blood lust of the aforementioned factions as they will not be able to rack up hundreds of undeserving enemies within minutes as has been done in the past.

As proof that this danger is apparent already, I have attached a photo of Magnanimus' enemy list.
First on mag's enemy list :D I feel so special
 
When was the "No LOL Raiding" removed?
And this is unnecessary as my entire faction now has 40 members and I started it only 2 or 3 weeks ago, while being constantly raided, and none of the beginning members or the first to join were premium. All it takes is work, and many people don't want to go through the work it takes to get strong, when they can join a faction that is already strong. I do not see the problem with Magnanimus bullying, the problem I see is lack of effort.
I had stated previously that attempts to gain strength have been demolished by factions bullying newbies because it's easy.
 
I had stated previously that attempts to gain strength have been demolished by factions bullying newbies because it's easy.
And I said that all it takes is effort, which it really does. A faction can thrive with the right effort. As I said, we were raided constantly (almost daily) not by the same factions, but by pvp factions. If creating a faction was easy, everyone would do it. (And we already have enough factions that barely have more than 1 member.)
 
Surrender terms exist for a reason. Not our fault if people are too stubborn to surrender. I know both Raptum and Mag have taken surrender terms under max tribute, such as flags, so it really is not hard to end the raids if it is that big an issue to you. From the perspective of a pvper, I am glad pvpers are finally feared again. For the longest time there was no real problem being raided as you could just run around and if you died, no one cared. Now people actually have a reason to hire pvpers, forge alliances, and overall be a little bit more pvp focused.
 
As I may agree that PvP is a big part of an MMORPG (such that is massivecraft) Roleplay still comes first. If big pvp factions decide to raid, they either need to attack people on their level or roleplay the surrender instead of shit-pming everyone in the faction of it. Surrender rules be damned because the EUlA is giving people a chance on massivecraft to be fair with pvp. If you support pvp so much, and want to beat up smaller factions, then why not reset mcstats? That way EVERYONE has a chance.

People tend to talk a big talk when they hve big stats. It may not really matter if the person has skill, but at least it makes everything equal. I love pvp as the next guy, but using it on people who just started on the server is bad mojo reputation.
 
Surrender terms exist for a reason. Not our fault if people are too stubborn to surrender. I know both Raptum and Mag have taken surrender terms under max tribute, such as flags, so it really is not hard to end the raids if it is that big an issue to you. From the perspective of a pvper, I am glad pvpers are finally feared again. For the longest time there was no real problem being raided as you could just run around and if you died, no one cared. Now people actually have a reason to hire pvpers, forge alliances, and overall be a little bit more pvp focused.
The server shouldn't be all about pvpers in my honest opinion. Right now, it's leaning towards pvpers having much more of an advantage than RPers. By advantage, I don't only mean in fighting prowess (mind you, the pvper will likely win 10/10 times) but also by killing and taking the resources, they also become richer than those who don't want to train combat skills. I don't believe people should be punished for NOT wanting to pvp, which is how it appears right now.
 
The server shouldn't be all about pvpers in my honest opinion. Right now, it's leaning towards pvpers having much more of an advantage than RPers. By advantage, I don't only mean in fighting prowess (mind you, the pvper will likely win 10/10 times) but also by killing and taking the resources, they also become richer than those who don't want to train combat skills. I don't believe people should be punished for NOT wanting to pvp, which is how it appears right now.

Jesus. This really is the arguement of a rper....

Tribute limit exists for a reason. Raid tribute is half that of war tribute, surrender is simple. To be honest, if you don't have the money to surrender, don't start a faction.

You can only raid for 2 hours a week. Again, has a reason.

Lastly, if I raid someone, not a war declaration outside my RP but an actuall raid, I always through RP into it. Hence my little spam of forum posts. If we are forced to RP to make wars, you should give us a little leeway for once a week.
 
Lol raiding is the most pointless bullshit ever. My faction is almost 100% RP we literally have nothing worth stealing. And our faction is broke too so tribute is difficult, it's better just hide in a 1x2 hole until the raiders get bored

The question is, why make a faction you can't maintain?
 
The server shouldn't be all about pvpers in my honest opinion. Right now, it's leaning towards pvpers having much more of an advantage than RPers. By advantage, I don't only mean in fighting prowess (mind you, the pvper will likely win 10/10 times) but also by killing and taking the resources, they also become richer than those who don't want to train combat skills. I don't believe people should be punished for NOT wanting to pvp, which is how it appears right now.
Bro, it's not that hard just build a safe house somewhere n the faction and hide in there until the raiders leave. It's not that hard. You can even build multiple. Our faction was raided by grins and so we just hid in our leaders house and rped until they went away, stop complaining
 
If big pvp factions decide to raid, they either need to attack people on their level or roleplay the surrender instead of shit-pming everyone in the faction of it.
The two main pvp factions on the server have been doing nothing but fighting each-other for a very long time. Only since the change of raid rules have they both actively focused other targets. Going and saying all pvp factions shit pm those who surrender is quite the assumption, and is false. If you see it once, do not assume it always happens, as thinking such is quite ignorant.
Surrender rules be damned because the EUlA is giving people a chance on massivecraft to be fair with pvp. If you support pvp so much, and want to beat up smaller factions, then why not reset mcstats? That way EVERYONE has a chance.
If you thinks stats are superior to skill you are simply wrong. I have tested this exact theory by raiding high level pvpers with my alt account. Granted my armour broke significantly faster, I was still able to drop and even kill some of them. (Not to mention one of them was later banned for hacking, so I think it went quite well). I have plenty of experience with high stat pvpers sucking and the opposite so resetting stats would do nothing but force pvpers back into grinding. Anyone who sets there mind to learning how to pvp is more than capable of such, but it is those who don't attempt to learn pvp that complain about high level pvpers being unfair.
People tend to talk a big talk when they hve big stats. It may not really matter if the person has skill, but at least it makes everything equal. I love pvp as the next guy, but using it on people who just started on the server is bad mojo reputation.
Surrender terms exist for a reason. If the new people cannot handle raids, they can surrender for a low fine. Again, saying stats make pvpers good is quite inaccurate, and is really a very small way to judge someones pvp skill.
The server shouldn't be all about pvpers in my honest opinion. Right now, it's leaning towards pvpers having much more of an advantage than RPers.
Saying the server is all about pvp now is a complete discredit to the lore staff and all the work they have been doing over the past months. I believe that roleplay is just as worked on and improved, if not more so than pvp. Just because recently pvp has been changing does not mean you have to go and say it is now 100% pvp based. As for saying "Advantage" I am not quite sure what you mean. If you mean in the survival world, I do not understand why you complain. I have been working on pvp and survival for over 2 years now, of course I will have an advantage over someone who prefers to spend their time roleplaying or doing other various things.
I don't believe people should be punished for NOT wanting to pvp, which is how it appears right now.
It is a survival world. If you cannot handle yourself, make friends with those who can protect you. I see no reason for people who do not train or even attempt to work on pvp to be at an equal level with high level pvpers. Worst case, we have surrender rules. Use those.
 
I don't really want to get into this but I'm just going to say one thing.

It really isn't that hard to make money. It just takes one thing and that is time.

And for the people who were asking about Lol raiding, it was allowed when the raid rules changed to make a reason for raiding unnecessary.
 
I think 'lol raiding' is so stupid and immature that anyone who participates should be banned from the server on account of stupidity. At least come up with a reason like "for teh lootz" or "becuz empire!". It's really not that hard. But that's all I have to say on the subject.
 
I think 'lol raiding' is so stupid and immature that anyone who participates should be banned from the server on account of stupidity. At least come up with a reason like "for teh lootz" or "becuz empire!". It's really not that hard. But that's all I have to say on the subject.

Who are you and what have you done with nice Mecharic

But seriously, sorry for enjoying another aspect of the server that you don't.
 
Who are you and what have you done with nice Mecharic

But seriously, sorry for enjoying another aspect of the server that you don't.
I think 'lol raiding' is so stupid and immature that anyone who participates should be banned from the server on account of stupidity. At least come up with a reason like "for teh lootz" or "becuz empire!". It's really not that hard. But that's all I have to say on the subject.
I think we can all enjoy the aspects of The server we like without bashing on the aspects of the server someone else likes.
 
Who are you and what have you done with nice Mecharic

But seriously, sorry for enjoying another aspect of the server that you don't.

The reason I am so aggressive over this is simple: I dislike losing items I put effort into getting or crafting. That is the single largest reason that I don't PvP. If people returned items I'd be overjoyed to PvP, as many have found out when I enter an arena or agree to fight someone. The problem is that many PvPers don't return items, refuse to sell them back to me, or otherwise take my stuff and never return it - even if they agreed to give items back. I stopped going to arenas like Remus or Aqua because people who had agreed to return my stuff didn't, and I have developed a deep dislike of all PvPers because of these incidents. I know that not all PvPers are like that, but too many are for me to willingly or happily or even politely let go of the few real defenses that non-PvPers have against them.
 
The reason I am so aggressive over this is simple: I dislike losing items I put effort into getting or crafting. That is the single largest reason that I don't PvP. If people returned items I'd be overjoyed to PvP, as many have found out when I enter an arena or agree to fight someone. The problem is that many PvPers don't return items, refuse to sell them back to me, or otherwise take my stuff and never return it - even if they agreed to give items back. I stopped going to arenas like Remus or Aqua because people who had agreed to return my stuff didn't, and I have developed a deep dislike of all PvPers because of these incidents. I know that not all PvPers are like that, but too many are for me to willingly or happily or even politely let go of the few real defenses that non-PvPers have against them.

Think about the economy if everyone had pacifist. It would collapse, pretty much completely. Also, if you are so worried, everyone has access to /BP now so use that as an inventory.
 
Think about the economy if everyone had pacifist. It would collapse, pretty much completely. Also, if you are so worried, everyone has access to /BP now so use that as an inventory.

And for the folks who are constructing a building? What about them? Or how about the RPers with lore items, using them in their roleplay? Or the trainees, with their axes and whatnot in a darkroom? The removal of pacifist only benefits PvPers.
 
And for the folks who are constructing a building? What about them? Or how about the RPers with lore items, using them in their roleplay? Or the trainees, with their axes and whatnot in a darkroom? The removal of pacifist only benefits PvPers.

I do see your point, I really do, but I think the economy would collapse if everyone had pacifist. No one would need buy anything, as you wouldn't lose it if you didn't hit back.

Also, as has been suggested 1001 times. Surrender.
 
Also, as has been suggested 1001 times. Surrender.

I'd like to point out Raptum to you, with that 8,200r surrender demand of me last time they went to war. That doesn't make it easy to surrender. In fact, it makes it downright impossible. Now, I understand that most people aren't nearly so... hmm... arrogant as that, and most factions aren't that large, but even so. Surrender is not always possible, and would bankrupt all but the PvP factions rather quickly.
 
I'd like to point out Raptum to you, with that 8,200r surrender demand of me last time they went to war. That doesn't make it easy to surrender. In fact, it makes it downright impossible. Now, I understand that most people aren't nearly so... hmm... arrogant as that, and most factions aren't that large, but even so. Surrender is not always possible, and would bankrupt all but the PvP factions rather quickly.

"I want a conversation that is reasonable and not flamey with someone. I know, let's insult his faction!"- Mecharic.
 
You're in Raptum? O.o - though that doesn't change the fact that a 8.2k tribute IS arrogant.

Have been for... Just under 2 months now?

There is a reason for all my Raptum Demon RP spam. Raptum is getting more RP involved.


Also, it's within the rules. If you want a faction that big, you should get some military, or allies to help.
 
Saying the server is all about pvp now is a complete discredit to the lore staff and all the work they have been doing over the past months. I believe that roleplay is just as worked on and improved, if not more so than pvp. Just because recently pvp has been changing does not mean you have to go and say it is now 100% pvp based. As for saying "Advantage" I am not quite sure what you mean. If you mean in the survival world, I do not understand why you complain. I have been working on pvp and survival for over 2 years now, of course I will have an advantage over someone who prefers to spend their time roleplaying or doing other various things.
Yeah, that's true, I did not mean to discredit the work done by the lore staff. The "advantage" that I'm speaking of is playing outside of Regalia, there's no place that RPers can consider "safe". I believe there should at least be something else that RPers can do than just sit in a city that constantly either becomes too confusing with changes or too boring from lack of changes. I understand that coming from a PvP perspective, it may sound just utterly stupid, but I think that there should be at least one more world for RPers, a world that could be survival with PvP disabled. Hopefully I'm making at least some sense with this, I know that there are times where things that I say get taken out of context or misunderstood (mostly due to my own mistakes).
 
The two main pvp factions on the server have been doing nothing but fighting each-other for a very long time. Only since the change of raid rules have they both actively focused other targets. Going and saying all pvp factions shit pm those who surrender is quite the assumption, and is false. If you see it once, do not assume it always happens, as thinking such is quite ignorant.

It's probably ignorant since it has only happened once and I never knew that side of the story. But once is enough, not just to me but to EVERY SINGLE FACTION THEY ATTACK, and if it happens again, my point about fat cat PvP players shit-pming remains standing.

If you thinks stats are superior to skill you are simply wrong. I have tested this exact theory by raiding high level pvpers with my alt account. Granted my armour broke significantly faster, I was still able to drop and even kill some of them. (Not to mention one of them was later banned for hacking, so I think it went quite well). I have plenty of experience with high stat pvpers sucking and the opposite so resetting stats would do nothing but force pvpers back into grinding. Anyone who sets there mind to learning how to pvp is more than capable of such, but it is those who don't attempt to learn pvp that complain about high level pvpers being unfair.

Stats still have an effect, don't they? It STILL matters. If you cherish being feared and ruining other people's enjoyment of the server (you don't know if they're just roeplay factions you're trying to f*ck up, so think about that), I still stand by the resetting of mcstats. And sorry, Grid, but no one is as good as you on the battlefield and can tweak their fingers fast enough to land hits on other pixel people. Some people don't have as much time you have to really get themselves to where you've worked yourself to be.
Satisfying as it may sound, there are still others out there who would prefer to do other things than tweak fights all day.

Experience goes half and half, at least in most games. Stats still matter.

You want to keep your high stats, then focus on factions that don't roleplay and do it just to troll and go lol-raid those out of existence. I'm pretty sure they'll give you a lot more fun than the hate you'll get from people trying to grow their factions up to be wonderful roleplay spots like Regalia.

Somehow I feel that resetting the stats following this EULA change, gives everyone new equal footings. Sure it'll send grinders back into their holes, but in my point of view, people now have chances to protect themselves without the clear advantages mcstats have maxed out. That, or capping the PvP stats.

That's my clear opinion, and I may fail to see this from an experienced PvP'ers eyes, but I'm looking at ways where everyone can be more fair and well out of harm's way to fully enjoy Massivecraft without having to peek over their shoulders.

Surrender terms exist for a reason. If the new people cannot handle raids, they can surrender for a low fine. Again, saying stats make pvpers good is quite inaccurate, and is really a very small way to judge someones pvp skill.

Sorry, but I don't think I judged anyone by their skill. They work hard to perfect it in a fight. I only, in a huge blowout, judged their overly exaggerated stats. And like I said, stats still have an affect, if note entirely noticeable by skilled PvP'ers such as yourself, Gridiron.

But allow me to make a fine point about new players, which you seem to forget is the lifeblood of Massivecraft:

What if they don't have the money for a low fine? What if they don't want to surrender because they're scared and wondering why the hell these jerks are screwing with them on their first day?

They don't know what stats are, and they don't know bilge about PvP here on Massive. They only know what they had in other servers.

These new players only that they now have a faction and can start building it up to become a good faction one day. But that is only birthed by the fear and anger lol-raiders imprint into their minds. This may be out of context, but based on child psychology, they'll believe having good stats is all that matters; that going around killing other people and winning at it is all that matters. Doing it just to also be feared on the server is all that matters.

It makes them feel good, like a sick masturbation.

That may be a harsh picture to draw, but that is what really happens to some people who feel like they're so weak on their first day that they have to protect themselves by getting high on everything. And with that mindset, skill just seems to sink into the background. Some people don't think about the skill. Just the stats.

Skill really does matter, but stats still have an affect on a younger mindset. Now, if these new players were in fact idiots and trolls AND adults (to top that off a number of people were adults and acted like brats), then I don't mind completely what lol-raiders do to them.

But the fact still stands that a majority of our player base here on Massivecraft are kids. The lowest I've seen playing was 8 years old and once upon a time, our faction got lol-raided and he was too dumb to stay inside and cried every time someone killed him. He never understood skill, just stats.

Maybe I don't have a right to judge a person based on their high stats and skill, but I should have one against people who lol-raid just for the sake of lol-ing their buts off when they see they've beaten up a little kid and they're raging at them. PvPers, because they're so good, should actually not just be feared on the server but respected. I say "respected," AFTER they've done something to earn it. Respected as allies? Sure, but only if they meant it. Some PvP factions now, after their little release of having to kill each other, have gone to turn on factions they were allied with. In my point of view, that's inhuman. That's turning against people who thought you were their friends.
Respected in their workload? Definitely. They could make a killing being hired out to murder people (then again that would probably bring about a cycle of revenge killing).

I just want to point out, I know a number of really good PvPers here on the server. They are the best of friends. Great to hang out with, and they are there to stick up with you when you're trying to protect something precious. So PvPers are not all bad, and I don't look down on the ones I consider my friends. Just the ones who do exactly what I've mentioned to new players.

Saying the server is all about pvp now is a complete discredit to the lore staff and all the work they have been doing over the past months. I believe that roleplay is just as worked on and improved, if not more so than pvp. Just because recently pvp has been changing does not mean you have to go and say it is now 100% pvp based. As for saying "Advantage" I am not quite sure what you mean. If you mean in the survival world, I do not understand why you complain. I have been working on pvp and survival for over 2 years now, of course I will have an advantage over someone who prefers to spend their time roleplaying or doing other various things.

It is a survival world. If you cannot handle yourself, make friends with those who can protect you. I see no reason for people who do not train or even attempt to work on pvp to be at an equal level with high level pvpers. Worst case, we have surrender rules. Use those.

Okay, so I can agree with you on this. The Lore Staff have done a damn good job working on the roleplay side of Massivecraft. Stating that PvP has become all that is massivecraft is a complete spit on their faces and an unworthy slap on their beautifully wonderful story-telling behinds.

And I'm here to say, that yes, due to the EULA compliancy that things ARE changing and PvP has become a little more open, BUT...

Now is the time to work on rebalancing the two. It's not all about PvP and it's all not about roleplay. Again, this is an MMORPG. People can and will die, but it just ahs to be in the right way. Lol-raiding puts a kill to that balance, as my earlier points have been made clear.

Whoever said this server was all about PvP can go eat cobblestone. And I'm not saying that because I tend to love roleplay more than PvP, I've spent a good while on Massivecraft to work on both sides, and yes, I have some experience on both sides, but at the end of the day, I'm a roleplayer and I suck at PvP. tumblr_m9gcu2L29x1qzckow.gif

In closing, I hope I can be agreed with that that Massivecraft is one of the best MMORPG in minecraft. Some intense constructive work provided on both sides after this whole EULA ordeal, yes, but it will all work out for the better in the end.
 
It's probably ignorant since it has only happened once and I never knew that side of the story. But once is enough, not just to me but to EVERY SINGLE FACTION THEY ATTACK, and if it happens again, my point about fat cat PvP players shit-pming remains standing.
Judging an entire community over one shit talking faction is quite harsh. That would be like me going and saying all roleplayers are god roleplaying scrubs because I have seen one person god roleplay once. I understand that some pvpers enjoy being douchebags and shit talking everyone but judging a community you are not an active part of is quite harsh, and I take offense to those who make such accusations without much to back it up.
Stats still have an effect, don't they? It STILL matters. If you cherish being feared and ruining other people's enjoyment of the server (you don't know if they're just roeplay factions you're trying to f*ck up, so think about that), I still stand by the resetting of mcstats. And sorry, Grid, but no one is as good as you on the battlefield and can tweak their fingers fast enough to land hits on other pixel people. Some people don't have as much time you have to really get themselves to where you've worked yourself to be.
Satisfying as it may sound, there are still others out there who would prefer to do other things than tweak fights all day.
Of course stats have an affect, but are still no where near as important as skill and knowledge. As long as you can hit all the lower level caps (750 axes and swords) you are doing the exact same damage as anyone else. With traits and new grinding methods, it would take less than two hours easily to hit those. What would resetting stats accomplish? Nothing. I see no point to it since everyone would just grind back to where they were before. I know two players who both pvp on new accounts as of recent and both of them have grinded up to around 1000 axes and swords in no time at all, and are both just as effective on the battefield as before. Stats are only as effective as the skill to back them up. I would much rather go into battle with a skilled player with no stats as opposed to a high stat player with no skill. Pvp has changed in such a way that those who do not know what they are doing can be dead in a matter of seconds. No stat can help that.

Saying pvp is just click-offs is quite offensive. Such a statement is nothing more than a blatant insult to pvp. That would be like me saying building is just placing pixels and roleplaying is just typing words. I would refrain in the future from tossing around insults on a topic you clearly know little about, as it is an insult to those who have actually spent the time to learn how to pvp. You say you are opposed to those who shit talk, then go ahead and shit talk yourself. Hypocritical to say the least.

You want to keep your high stats, then focus on factions that don't roleplay and do it just to troll and go lol-raid those out of existence. I'm pretty sure they'll give you a lot more fun than the hate you'll get from people trying to grow their factions up to be wonderful roleplay spots like Regalia.

Somehow I feel that resetting the stats following this EULA change, gives everyone new equal footings. Sure it'll send grinders back into their holes, but in my point of view, people now have chances to protect themselves without the clear advantages mcstats have maxed out. That, or capping the PvP stats.
The raid rules only allow pvpers to "lol raid" roleplay factions once per week. Not that bad at all, considering they can just go RP in regalia for an hour until the pvpers get bored. The reason other factions get attacked is because fighting the same pvp factione every day for a month gets boring. I know most non pvpers fail to understand this, but raiding less experienced factions can be fun simply for the fact that it is a new place to fight. That is without even mention if one of the two major pvp factions is raiding a smaller roleplay faction, the second one will not hesitate to defend. As much as it is said, the highest level pvpers do not raid small factions with only 3 or 4 members. If not targeting each-other, they head over to the /f list for the most active factions to provide half a challenge. I can tell you as an active officer of one of the largest pvp factions, as much as common belief says otherwise, we do not just sit in an evil little bunker planning to ruin peoples days.

As for capping stats, if you were unaware, other than armour damage, everything has a cap. Why doesn't armour damage get capped? As stated on another thread discussing the matter it would require Cayorion to code an entire new plugin which is a seemingly unneccessary amount of work when the staff can just nerf armour damage by using a feature already availible in MCMMO whenever a problem with excessive armour damage arises. As I already stated, these caps are all under 1000 levels so it really is not that hard for anyone to go and obtain the minimum stats needed to compete with the best.

But allow me to make a fine point about new players, which you seem to forget is the lifeblood of Massivecraft:

What if they don't have the money for a low fine? What if they don't want to surrender because they're scared and wondering why the hell these jerks are screwing with them on their first day?

They don't know what stats are, and they don't know bilge about PvP here on Massive. They only know what they had in other servers.
Considering getting a war declaration on random factions for no reason is not possible, the most they can be lol raided is two hours. I'm sure any noob can handle being raided for two hours a week. That is without going to mention that not every pvper just sits around spawn waiting for noobs to kill. Most pvpers prefer half a challenge. Obviously some people enjoy killing noobs but again, judging a whole community based on the actions of the worst is not a fair assessment.

These new players only that they now have a faction and can start building it up to become a good faction one day. But that is only birthed by the fear and anger lol-raiders imprint into their minds. This may be out of context, but based on child psychology, they'll believe having good stats is all that matters; that going around killing other people and winning at it is all that matters. Doing it just to also be feared on the server is all that matters.

It makes them feel good, like a sick masturbation.

That may be a harsh picture to draw, but that is what really happens to some people who feel like they're so weak on their first day that they have to protect themselves by getting high on everything. And with that mindset, skill just seems to sink into the background. Some people don't think about the skill. Just the stats.

Skill really does matter, but stats still have an affect on a younger mindset. Now, if these new players were in fact idiots and trolls AND adults (to top that off a number of people were adults and acted like brats), then I don't mind completely what lol-raiders do to them.

But the fact still stands that a majority of our player base here on Massivecraft are kids. The lowest I've seen playing was 8 years old and once upon a time, our faction got lol-raided and he was too dumb to stay inside and cried every time someone killed him. He never understood skill, just stats.
I cannot argue the morals of pvpers since each has there own, but I can give my opinion. The reason pvpers enjoy being feared is because that is the only way to be recognized anymore. Respect for pvpers is no longer valid, as a pvper is judged by who he is helping, not who he is. I have had to deal with multiple times people who were former friends that apparently respected me suddenly turning and saying I am an ass when I switch sides in a war. Although I understand people not exactly being exited when a faction or player switches sides, the initial hate and reaction is enough to make me stop caring what people think. As harsh as it sounds, the mixed reaction I get when going side to side (as Mag and Raptum will switch from good guys to bad guys every now and again) is enough for me to believe that other than being feared, there is no real way to earn any credit from the community as a pvper. Again, I cannot speak for every pvper here but that is just my take on why people would rather be feared than anything else.

I just want to point out, I know a number of really good PvPers here on the server. They are the best of friends. Great to hang out with, and they are there to stick up with you when you're trying to protect something precious. So PvPers are not all bad, and I don't look down on the ones I consider my friends. Just the ones who do exactly what I've mentioned to new players.
Unfortunately, most people do not understand all pvpers are not the same person. When one pvper goes and lol raids or kills a noob, it instantly becomes the entire pvp community that becomes the target for hate. Many people are quick to judge pvpers on the simple fact that they are pvpers, and in some cases are associated with those notorious for lol raiding. This is an issue I am actively trying to fix on the forums, hence my slightly heated responses to insults to the pvp community. When people start to discover that not all pvpers are assholes, it will hopefully prevent threads such as this condemning pvpers for being lol raiding asshats who should not be allowed to do what we enjoy, pvp.
 
Why don't people that want to rp just live underground or in a glass dome for gods sake they're going to raid you no matter what pretty much.
 
This is what you see when you type Massivecraft into google.
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Notice anything?

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I feel that people sometimes forget massivecraft ISN'T just a Roleplay server, but is PvP too. People always cry for realism in suggestions, so is it not realistic that large forces attack the smaller, weaker ones, and take their stuff? If not realistic..It's fun. I've had experience in many types of factions, (including mag), and I can say PvP is the most fun on the server i've had. As grid mentioned, before when raiding, a majority of a time no-one would actually fight back..They didn't have to. Now they can choose to fight or flight. It's once a week from the big factions..And you can tribute them with their surrender terms. It's not the end of the world..So you're a peaceful faction with not interest for PvP? Make a RP situation and run inside, worrying for your life with these 'Savage invaders'..

What I'm trying to say, is there are alternatives to constantly being killed with the lack of pacifist...Although I've not been active for a couple months really..I can say I like that change, and hope it stays.
 
It was am exaggeration celarus my point being there are fortifications you can build to reduce raiding if raiding is such a problem stay in regalia it is a survival minecraft server you're going to die. But I agree that some sort of revised rule be made about the "lol raiding" issue
 
Judging an entire community over one shit talking faction is quite harsh. That would be like me going and saying all roleplayers are god roleplaying scrubs because I have seen one person god roleplay once. I understand that some pvpers enjoy being douchebags and shit talking everyone but judging a community you are not an active part of is quite harsh, and I take offense to those who make such accusations without much to back it up.

I don't think I judged the entire community, just part of it. And I just stood up for the rest of the community as a whole because not many people can complain openly and get away with it, via someone looking up these people and lol-raiding them until they give up on the server. Tell me you've never done that. And you're right, people do shit-talk and shit roleplay, but those go hand in hand with shit pvpers.
And you think I'm being harsh? That's fine, because not all things will improve with nice words and beating around the bush. This is what constructive criticism exists for.
So I'm glad you think I don't see what's going on with the people who aren't as active as other people on the server. But these people, even if they aren't active in local affairs, still make up most of the community too. They have things to say, and they should be held as equal to those who are active. So you have zero right to be offended by what I'm saying. Besides, what use is being active and being known if nothing you say is being heard?
And if you wanted some back-up by what I've been driving to point out, you should be reading more thoroughly through the posts people have been making on here.

Of course stats have an affect, but are still no where near as important as skill and knowledge. As long as you can hit all the lower level caps (750 axes and swords) you are doing the exact same damage as anyone else. With traits and new grinding methods, it would take less than two hours easily to hit those. What would resetting stats accomplish? Nothing. I see no point to it since everyone would just grind back to where they were before. I know two players who both pvp on new accounts as of recent and both of them have grinded up to around 1000 axes and swords in no time at all, and are both just as effective on the battefield as before. Stats are only as effective as the skill to back them up. I would much rather go into battle with a skilled player with no stats as opposed to a high stat player with no skill. Pvp has changed in such a way that those who do not know what they are doing can be dead in a matter of seconds. No stat can help. that.

Saying pvp is just click-offs is quite offensive. Such a statement is nothing more than a blatant insult to pvp. That would be like me saying building is just placing pixels and roleplaying is just typing words. I would refrain in the future from tossing around insults on a topic you clearly know little about, as it is an insult to those who have actually spent the time to learn how to pvp. You say you are opposed to those who shit talk, then go ahead and shit talk yourself. Hypocritical to say the least.

Are you just going to be offended by everything I say? I took the liberty of bolding what I think was my point in the first place. And several other important parts.

First off, I did say that if stats were reset, then everyone would have a fair chance at fighting one another. In this quote, you said that everyone would just grind back to where they were before.

That's a good valid point.

They would have grind back to where they were before at the pace everyone has to go at. Wouldn't that be fair?

Because then it would be like time has been reset for everyone. It doesn't matter who you know that can grind to impossible levels in days because I also mentioned that not a lot of people have the time on their hands to bring themselves to high levels.
AND, if you didn't read everything else, I also said that skill also matters. But people don't see that all the time, do they?

All they see are stats. They STILL have an affect, you need to remember that. And you already said that they are only as effective as the skill. Yes! Yes, skill is exactly what I agree with you on.

You're right to say that it takes skill to be dependant on the battlefield, and there's no one else I'd want fighting by my side in a fight than someone who knows what he/she is doing. But like I said, not a lot of people can tweak to impossible levels and fight all day long. It's impressive, but there really are other things people would rather do than have their time wasted with being raided.

To some people, time is of the utmost essence. They don't have time to grind and fight. They just want to spend time with their friends. I'm pretty sure some PvPers want that as well.

Also, I didn't know about the level caps until you mentioned them, so I thank you for that reassurance. That adds to my point for equal footing in a fight than ever because getting up to that level really is a walk in the park, at least for those who do their best to become great PvPers. If there are caps, like you say, then I'll drop the mcstat reset argument.

And in closing, I'll also apologize in any case you've gotten riled up by what I say. But if you can state your opinion, why can't I state mine too? There shouldn't be harm in getting to know things from a different view and that just puts you in a "pot meets kettle" kind of scenario here with me. Since when does hypocrisy come into this picture in place of standing up for the smaller people?

Like I said earlier, some people don't talk as big as other people. They may not be as active in affairs, but they still have a right to have their woes heard. There's no hypocrisy in that, just your excuse for hating on someone who isn't on your side.

And on your last part, I would think anyone who plays minecraft would be insulted by the pixel thing (or find it funny). And isn't posting a debate on here just typing words too? There's nothing insulting about that at all. Though, I'm pretty sure if I saw a shit-roleplayer, I'd be just as critical on them as I am about lol-raiders and OPs, so I'm not sure where I've tossed an insult. But it's still true.

Though if I did say an insult, I apologize for that.

And finally, I just want to assure you that if you put me on a thread that could even involve roleplay, I'd be just as passionate to have the lesser point be heard than I am on here. That lesser point being that everyone is in need of a fair chance.

The raid rules only allow pvpers to "lol raid" roleplay factions once per week. Not that bad at all, considering they can just go RP in regalia for an hour until the pvpers get bored. The reason other factions get attacked is because fighting the same pvp factione every day for a month gets boring. I know most non pvpers fail to understand this, but raiding less experienced factions can be fun simply for the fact that it is a new place to fight. That is without even mention if one of the two major pvp factions is raiding a smaller roleplay faction, the second one will not hesitate to defend. As much as it is said, the highest level pvpers do not raid small factions with only 3 or 4 members. If not targeting each-other, they head over to the /f list for the most active factions to provide half a challenge. I can tell you as an active officer of one of the largest pvp factions, as much as common belief says otherwise, we do not just sit in an evil little bunker planning to ruin peoples days.

As for capping stats, if you were unaware, other than armour damage, everything has a cap. Why doesn't armour damage get capped? As stated on another thread discussing the matter it would require Cayorion to code an entire new plugin which is a seemingly unneccessary amount of work when the staff can just nerf armour damage by using a feature already availible in MCMMO whenever a problem with excessive armour damage arises. As I already stated, these caps are all under 1000 levels so it really is not that hard for anyone to go and obtain the minimum stats needed to compete with the best.

Good, this is good. Couple things:

"raiding less experienced factions can be fun simply for the fact that it is a new place to fight"

Does it not occur to you that less experienced factions are still in the middle of building themselves up? You seem to forget that some factions, NEW factions, tend to drive up their list by recruiting non-stop all day?

Stupid as it may be, but these are still people trying to get used to the world here in Massivecraft. Raiding these less experienced factions could be funny for you, but for these people, it's serious business. They don't need you playing "eenie meenie miney mo" and picking them off the list. Come on, man.

"As much as it is said, the highest level pvpers do not raid small factions with only 3 or 4 members"

I know this. And that's what I really do respect out of PvPers, that is FAIR.

"we do not just sit in an evil little bunker planning to ruin peoples days"

I don't think you're evil. And I don't think you sit in a little bunker all day planning to shit someone's day over. But I definitely know someone who did such a thing before. Not sure I ever said that you did, but alright.

"As for capping stats, if you were unaware, other than armour damage, everything has a cap"

This is what I never knew. But now that you've told me, that just makes things a whole lot less tense, you think? Now that I know that 1000 is the level cap, you're right to say it won't be hard to get at with some technique. And skill. :P

It's right to say Cayorion shouldn't have to put more work on his plate. He does enough with the staff to upkeep the server, especially with this whole EULA shit.

Considering getting a war declaration on random factions for no reason is not possible, the most they can be lol raided is two hours. I'm sure any noob can handle being raided for two hours a week. That is without going to mention that not every pvper just sits around spawn waiting for noobs to kill. Most pvpers prefer half a challenge. Obviously some people enjoy killing noobs but again, judging a whole community based on the actions of the worst is not a fair assessment.

I could stand being out of the houses while my faction is being lol-raided. There are other things I can enjoy doing than just sitting in my faction huddled in a corner while PvP jocks jump around outside. Two hours is still a lot of time, though.
And as I stated, a lot of people don't have a lot of time on their hands and don't enjoy having it wasted. Sure, two hours a week is something I can stand. But this isn't about me, nor is it about you. But I don't think others could stand it though.

"Obviously some people enjoy killing noobs but again, judging a whole community based on the actions of the worst is not a fair assessment"

You're adorable and may have flipped that. I judged the worst of the community. The majority part that are the bad, non-respectable PvPers. You run a PvP faction with good morale? Fine. But the majority can still be people who enjoy killing. It's not about noobs, because I knew a good few people who were new players and still kicked OP PvP ass. So it all just comes down t the killing, and you know what that breeds.
So really, I didn't judge the entire community like you said. I'm placing judgement on the part of it that is made of up of what the entire community isn't liking at the moment.

I cannot argue the morals of pvpers since each has there own, but I can give my opinion. The reason pvpers enjoy being feared is because that is the only way to be recognized anymore. Respect for pvpers is no longer valid, as a pvper is judged by who he is helping, not who he is. I have had to deal with multiple times people who were former friends that apparently respected me suddenly turning and saying I am an ass when I switch sides in a war. Although I understand people not exactly being exited when a faction or player switches sides, the initial hate and reaction is enough to make me stop caring what people think. As harsh as it sounds, the mixed reaction I get when going side to side (as Mag and Raptum will switch from good guys to bad guys every now and again) is enough for me to believe that other than being feared, there is no real way to earn any credit from the community as a pvper. Again, I cannot speak for every pvper here but that is just my take on why people would rather be feared than anything else.

Your opinion is valuable. But this,

"The reason pvpers enjoy being feared is because that is the only way to be recognized anymore."

That is NOT your only option. Hello? This is a game where you create things. Massivecraft is an MMORPG! There are definitely other ways to be known better than just being feared. That just makes it sound creepy and cause me to think you have the Azula syndrome.

And YES! There still is respect for PvPers. I know a guy named DisturbedReaper. He is the coolest kid. He's got some great skills. He and his faction made some great builds. Better than I could ever build. Sure, there are times where he had to go on the other side of the war, but what was more important than his faction kicking my ass in a fight is the fact that at the end of it all, we'd still be friends. He even check in on me whenever I forget to check in on him. :'3 I can't really speak for all of his faction, because I don't really know all of them, but I know Disturbed, and no matter what shit happens, I'd rather ask him why it happened and try to work through it instead of having to drop them off my friendlist forever.

Perhaps there are others who see where you're coming from Grid, but at the end of the day, there has got to be someone who still trusts and depend on you. PvP or not.

What I'm telling you is that people don't respect the PvPers, that's true. BUT they do respect their friends. And friends who turn on their friends just because of a trivial turn of sides just means their friendship wasn't grounded at all and they were only there for you because you protected them.
In the end, it all depends on morality. If someone lied to me and turned their backs on me, I'm not disappointed that they did it. I'd be more disappointed that I can no longer trust them. That's probably what your opinion sounds like to me, but just know that not everyone is like that.
Sure there are people who will think you're an ass-bucket, but then there are people who will really wonder what they did wrong and ask you about it.

though like you said, I'm not overly active in local affairs. So what I'm saying probably doesn't apply to anything here, but it's something worth saying. There are still ways. Hell, intergrate yourselves with roleplay, why don't you? Try something new aside from just PvP and have some actual fun with the entire community. Er, not with swords and killing of course. Perhaps a bout of minigames or roleplaying once a week? Heck. This is an MMORPG. The sky is the limit. As...far as medieval goes, I guess.

People don't enjoy being afraid. Preferably, I don't enjoy having to look over my shoulder when I'm building something fabulous. I pretty much enjoy having a lot of people in the server too. Sometimes when people get scared, they don't want to come back. That's a fact. I think.

Unfortunately, most people do not understand all pvpers are not the same person. When one pvper goes and lol raids or kills a noob, it instantly becomes the entire pvp community that becomes the target for hate. Many people are quick to judge pvpers on the simple fact that they are pvpers, and in some cases are associated with those notorious for lol raiding. This is an issue I am actively trying to fix on the forums, hence my slightly heated responses to insults to the pvp community. When people start to discover that not all pvpers are assholes, it will hopefully prevent threads such as this condemning pvpers for being lol raiding asshats who should not be allowed to do what we enjoy, pvp.

Unless they're alts, DUHN DUHN DUHN! Joking aside, you did say that with the limitations removed on raiding, PvPers have a chance to focus on other factions instead of each other. Point proven that when one idiot goes to attack someone, it falls on the shoulders of the entire PvP community, but that's just how you see it.

Some PvPers tend to sound like vegans to me, and some roleplayers tend to sound like vegans too. PvPers when the see a god-roleplay can be just as openly critical and say they're a dumbass. Whereas, roleplayers will see PvPers as asshats because some of them are lol-asshats. Your heated argument is pointless, because you're trying to uplift something that is supposed to be balanced out with something else.

Need I remind you that this is an MMORPG based server. Of course there will always be a war between PvP and roleplay because someone could be having a tea party, then one guy decides to turn and lol-raid everyone. And then it become a shitstorm for everyone.

There's nothing wrong with killing people here, but there is still an implemented rule about disrupting roleplay. I may be hearing the insults, but I'm hearing the complaints more instead, becauseat least with complaints, you can work to fix them. Getting heated over insults just weakens your argument.

I'm going to state again that not all PvPers are asshats. Some, but not all. Here's an idea since you want to be known so well, why don't you and your faction work on representing the better side of the PvP lifestyle. Being feared just makes you look like one of the bad guys. I know you guys mean for good, but there are better ways.

Azula syndrome.
 
Didn't read anything but the very first post, so don't get angry if someone's said this already, but...

Traps + Underground Base = No Worries.