Massivelock Update! Yes Or No?

[CnocBride]

So recently a few changes have taken place over the last week. You can find them outlined here: https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/news-and-updates-august-2016.45132/

Anyway all updates seemed fine and at first I enjoyed the update until I got to MassiveLock. I like how it my be easier for some people but I find it complicated and annoying. I run shopmedium45 (visit now for cheap prices ) and I had to relist all items again. Also I had to split all my locks into individual ones. For example most of my locks were under the name Massive Market Shop but after the update items were showing up in other chests as -1 (other then the chest they are supposed to be in) and I was like what? I soon discovered that if I had Baked Potatoes and Melons on the same shop account though in seperate chests they would still show up in each other chests. I just found this annoying having to remove all my locks and make new ones which caused me a fair amount of Regal and I ain't the richest of players. So what I am asking is to address the public and see what they're opinions are on this matter.

 

[Thortuna]

This is actually done to prevent duping and glitching where people could potentially steal all your items and leave you with no money left. With the new system this should not be possible, it is far more secure and will pay off in the long run. It is also more user friendly to new players.

 

[EmpressEvie]

I read that it was to make it easier to see which items could be sold, but the way its set up now, makes it harder to tell. Before the update, you could open a chest, hover over the item and see what could be sold, but now it only tells you how much of the single item is in stock. Take Salemslot, for example - He buys and sells wool. He uses stone blocks to fill a number of slots so that only a certain amount of wool can be sold. The only way you can actually know how much you can sell, is by shift + right click to see inside the actual chest. And half the time, shift + right click doesn't even work. Do we know why this is?

I also don't think it is more user friendly for new players, considering the additional commands that must be known to have a functioning shop.

It's also quite tedious to have to open your chest, see which items have been sold, find the index number and then, remove it. Having to do that multiple times for a single chest is a bit frustrating.

Lastly, the new notification for when someone buys an item: If I'm selling single apples for 1r and someone comes and buys 100 apples, I get 100 notifications for this. It's especially frustrating if you're in the middle of RP and can no longer scroll up to see anything. It also fills your /money log, not allowing you as much history to see.

I'm grateful to have staff that would make changes so that glitching/duping is not possible. I only wish certain tweaks could be made to make this new system a little bit more efficient/less tedious. Anyway, apologies for the rant, just sharing my own frustrations about the update. @TheOverseer__

 

[TheOverseer__]

I will have to echo Empress' concerns about the new system. I will also say that I am behind any system that makes theft/glitching/duping harder to do. I used several tricks on the old system to make items in my chest shops to make items more visable and appealing.

• I would group items together in a logical way allow for space between stacks of items for a visual separation. For instance, In an enchanted book shop I would put a Thorns I, Prot III book, a Thorns II, Port II, books, and a Thorns I, Unbreaking III book all tucked over into a certain corner of the chest because I know that a customer looking in this chest would be most interested in the thorns enchant and this is the primary driver of the value. Somebody looking to upgrade all their armor to Thorns III might buy ALL of these books, netting a chunk of change. With the new system these are randomly jumbled around and as each one sells, I have to tediously remove the books 1 by 1 so that other books are visible at all!
• A common way that I increase my sales is by use of a clearance chest to just throw anything and everything that I have an excess of to sell at an ultra low price. The chest could have a whole host of completely random things in it at any given time. When those things go out I have to try and find the index of the item, which has so many pages of data I get spam kicked while paging through. When I finally find it I can remove it.
• I would also back up the notion that it is not easier for new players. A new client of mine literally could not figure out how to sell a certain block to me because they kept wanting to click the item in their inventory instead of click it in the chest shop portion. I've spoken to them on a regular basis and they aren't dumb at all, it just was not clear how to do it.
• It is also difficult to tell from a stocking perspective what already has a price on it. When I want to load my clearance chest I am not always sure if it is a re-stock or a new item. From shift right click mode, I can't tell what is already priced and i have to open the shop back up and look through every single item to see if it is already priced.

If there is any way to retain the previous visual appearance, but also make it more secure, I would advocate for that all day long. Everybody who plays MC knows how to operate a chest and the previous version only required that. On the new system every part of the system is more tedious for the seller and it is not as simple as knowing how to use a chest.

I will also add- the chat spam from fast clicking repeat sales is one of the most infuriating things in this game for me right now. I am in the middle of a high stakes tense RP and i have to say ((hang on a minute, i gotta way until people stop buying stuff at my shop. Can you repost in a second.

 

[Omnomivore]

And half the time, shift + right click doesn't even work. Do we know why this is?

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If you are holding an item in either of your hands you cannot open the chest. You must have completely empty hands to open the chest with shift + right click.

 

[EmpressEvie]

If you are holding an item in either of your hands you cannot open the chest. You must have completely empty hands to open the chest with shift + right click.

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I'm aware of that. But, half the time (with empty hands) shift + right click still will not allow you to see the actual chest contents. Is this a bug?

 

[Zacatero]

I'm aware of that. But, half the time (with empty hands) shift + right click still will not allow you to see the actual chest contents. Is this a bug?

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You can only see the contents of the chest if you would normally be allowed to open a chest. For example if i try to shift click in somebodys shop it wont let me becuade i cant open chests in that zone

 

[Omnomivore]

I'm aware of that. But, half the time (with empty hands) shift + right click still will not allow you to see the actual chest contents. Is this a bug?

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Possibly. I haven't experienced this personally. If you think it is a bug, please submit a bug report.

 

[EmpressEvie]

You can only see the contents of the chest if you would normally be allowed to open a chest. For example if i try to shift click in somebodys shop it wont let me becuade i cant open chests in that zone

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Well, I'm sometimes capable of doing this in other chests shops that aren't my own. And I'm also, sometimes, unable to do this in my own chest shops. So, either way there is some sort of issue.

If what you're saying is true, then this did not make selling things easier at all, because there is no way to actually know what is needed in a chest.

 

[Zacatero]

If what you're saying is true, then this did not make selling things easier at all, because there is no way to actually know what is needed in a chest

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Well you can see with the gui how many of that item are in the chest

 

[EmpressEvie]

Well you can see with the gui how many of that item are in the chest

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Take Salemslot, for example - He buys and sells wool. He uses stone blocks to fill a number of slots so that only a certain amount of wool can be sold. The only way you can actually know how much you can sell, is by shift + right click to see inside the actual chest. And half the time, shift + right click doesn't even work. Do we know why this is?

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Restating what I said initially - The gui will only tell you how many of a single item is in the chest. So, let me try to explain it a little bit better. This time using his Emerald chest. Screenshots, included

Let's take Salemslot Emerald Block chest for example:




Judging by the information provided in the GUI, you can see there are currently 1280 emerald blocks in the chest. Nowhere does it say how many /can/ be sold. So, if you want to sell something, you would need to do the math to see how many you can sell. Considering there are 54 slots in a doublechest, it could hold 3456 emerald blocks. Therefore creating a difference of 2176. So, by this GUI, one would assume you can sell 2176 emerald blocks.


That is clearly not the case when you Shift+ right click to see the actual chest contents.


This is only backing up my argument that this update did not make selling items ANY easier than before. In my personal opinion, it has made that harder, especially considering the shift + right click doesn't work half the time (Or in Zacatero's opinion, is not supposed to work at all, if it isn't your own shop.)

This same issue can be found in other shops as well. If a shop as 3 different items that can be sold, how are we to know how many of each item /can/ be sold?

 

[TheOverseer__]

One could argue that sales is the probably the best way to determine if it is easier to buy and sell things. If things are easier to buy and sell then more people will buy and sell things. When I switched from the old chest shop to massive lock, I immediately said "Wow! My sales have gone up." With this new update, my sales have dropped off to pre-chest shop levels.

If you are able to poll the total value of regals that have traveled through the plugin, I dare you to query a random day 2 weeks ago vs today or yesterday. I am willing to bet that sales have gone down server wide.

Combined, Empressevie and I make up 0.44% of the entire economy, where our regals are almost solely from block trade. I mean no salt Zacetero, but you haven't got the experiential knowledge to judge if the chest plugin is easier to sell things with or not. I trust your judgement on buying, but not selling.

 

[Zacatero]

Its easier in the respect that now you can clearly see what is available for sale.. as before you had to rely on a sign tht may or may not have been there

 

[EmpressEvie]

Its easier in the respect that now you can clearly see what is available for sale.. as before you had to rely on a sign tht may or may not have been there

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But what is the point in knowing /what/ you can sell without knowing /if/ there is even room to sell it?

 

[TheOverseer__]

Its easier in the respect that now you can clearly see what is available for sale.. as before you had to rely on a sign tht may or may not have been there

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I say if a shop owner didn't stick a sign up, that's their own problem. I've literally never seen a shop that didn't provide some indication of its purpose. With this, it is bad against the will of the shop owner. I've seen plenty of shops that used to be nice that are horrible now even despite proper signage.

 

[Alj23]

So uh, I just recently rented a shop, and have been setting up my shop chest, so maybe I can offer a different perspective here.

So far, I like the system. There a few things I noticed that I wished were different, but they really aren't that big of complaints though. For example, the command to set up a shop and then add items/pricesis just a bit confusing sometimes. Once you start doing it a lot though it becomes easy. What I really like about the new command though is you don't have to do /item info and remember the meta data value. With Chestshops, if you got to the end of making the sign, and realized you messed something up, you had to start over.

What I also really like about the new shops is that listing an item for sale isn't based off of the meta data value. For example, if I made a piece of God armor, it might have a completely different meta data value than another piece, thus causing the ChestShop system to see it as to different items. This happened when you applied enchants in different orders, or made items in different worlds. Now, so long as it's the same material with the same enchants, it's all the same item. And you can sell multiple items in the same chest. Not possible with ChestShops.

The biggest complaint I can make though is the regal cost associated with setting up the shop. The cost to create the lock plus locking the chest has become slightly high.

So all in all, I'm pretty pleased with what the plugin offers at the moment.

 

[Alj23]

Combined, Empressevie and I make up 0.44% of the entire economy, where our regals are almost solely from block trade

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What are you even trying to convey with this part of your argument?

 

[Zacatero]

Look those who are upset by the change are using the "But thats the way its always been done" argument.. well just because its how its always been done... isnt a good reason to keep doing it

 

[EmpressEvie]

Look those who are upset by the change are using the "But thats the way its always been done" argument.. well just because its how its always been done... isnt a good reason to keep doing it

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Actually, that's not the case at all. I listed several valid reasons for why it was upsetting. I'm quite an open minded person and I'm very quick to adapt to changes. But being adaptable does not mean we are not entitled to a difference of opinion. I'm sorry that my grievances with this system gave that perception.

I was there for the sign shops, and then the new chestshops and now this update. I'm not one to complain about staff decisions as I understand they're the best for the job. But, I would like to offer my thoughts on something that I interact with quite a lot and hope that it could be of use to someone who could actually do something.

Honestly, it's quite upsetting when you try to discuss the issues you have with something and someone jumps in stating that it's just because you're upset about XYZ. I even replied to your previous question, but you chose to skip over it and say we're upset because "that's the way its always been". Thanks for the helpful feedback and constuctive answer.

 

[TheOverseer__]

What are you even trying to convey with this part of your argument?

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The point is that we use the plugin more than the average member and we have extensive knowledge on all three systems.

• Chest shop
• Pre-update Massivelock
• Post-update Massivelock

What I really like about the new command though is you don't have to do /item info and remember the meta data value.

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This quote shows you aren't even on the same page with the conversation that Empressevie and I are having nor is it the intention of this poll. We are not comparing the current system with Chest shop, we are comparing it with pre-update Massivelock. This entire poll is not even about Chest shop and if Massivelock is superior to Chest shop. There is no argument there. Our perspective is that the new update to Massivelock is detrimental to the great progress that the Massivelock system has made.

This happened when you applied enchants in different orders, or made items in different worlds. Now, so long as it's the same material with the same enchants, it's all the same item.

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Furthermore, building on the very original points, If you made 54 enchanted books you would have to price it 54 times with the new update and then when one sold and you place a new one in, you would not be able to even see the new one to buy it until you sort through every single one of your for sale items with /lock edit shopprices show, find the index of the one that was sold, do /lock edit shopprices removeindex # where the # is a number you tediously found in the indexed list. The meta data controls the GUI on the new system for if items stack. So if the meta data is all different and they don't stack and because they don't stack you are left with the large task of removing old prices and adding new ones every single time you sell something. This is especially difficult with enchanted books because there are so many possible meta data variations in items like Enchanted books, weapons, armor, and lore.

On the previous version of massive lock, you could simply keep adding prices to new items and throw them in because sold items that were never going to return did not take up a space in the GUI.

Look those who are upset by the change are using the "But thats the way its always been done" argument.. well just because its how its always been done... isnt a good reason to keep doing it

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Not even close. I absolutely support the progress that massivelock has made in making chest space more efficient / allowing multiple sale items etc. I don't care how things have always been. We have simply provided objective reasons for why the current update to that system is flawed for people who use the plugin a lot. All of our reasons we objective and fact based and not rooted in nostalgia.

 

[Alj23]

The point is that we use the plugin more than the average member and we have extensive knowledge on all three systems.

• Chest shop
• Pre-update Massivelock
• Post-update Massivelock

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Ok, so you make most of your money from block trade by utilizing the shop plugins. The whole "0.44% of the economy part" was completely irrelevant to the argument, so it was confusing what you were trying to argue.

If you've got such a big issue with the way the plugin works right now, go suggest changed in Features and Ideas. You should get official staff feedback there.

 

[TheOverseer__]

Ok, so you make most of your money from block trade by utilizing the shop plugins. The whole "0.44% of the economy part" was completely irrelevant to the argument, so it was confusing what you were trying to argue.

If you've got such a big issue with the way the plugin works right now, go suggest changed in Features and Ideas. You should get official staff feedback there.

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It's not irrelevant... the fact that we hold almost 1 out every 200 regals on the entire server substantiates that we are experienced in trade and therefore experienced with the various trading systems such as Massivelock. The entire point of this thread was a poll on pre-update and post-update Massivelock. We were actually having a productive discussion with Thortuna and Omnom until you hijacked it with completely unrelated comparisons to the unrelated topic of comparisons chest shop.