Archived Massivearmor, The (unfortunate?) Logic. Let's Fix It.

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Cowboys1919

Cowboys1919

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Yes. You all know. MassiveArmor this, MassiveArmor that.

I'll get right down to my point. MassiveArmor will change the way most have played the game. It goes from "work on making armor, use efficient methods and recruit persistent people" to "recruit as many people as you can, get as many alts as you can, make sure they all vote three times a day to get the best items"

I know in the past, MassiveCraft has stated they are not about the Vote-To-Win mentality: http://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/our-planet-minecraft-reputation.7501

ulumulu1510 said:
Most servers have this "vote and get stuff" mentality which we do certainly not share,
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Don't get me wrong, please. I have no problem with the voting system in general.
My bottom line is, that I think others would agree with, is that you should not be able to get something from voting that you can not get normally in-game (or at least that give an advantage in-game that can not be acquired otherwise).
Simple request: Remove MassiveArmor. Other items are fine.
 
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KSTRandom said:
I say we remove the ability to gain it, and us players can be honorable and.. well, refrain from using it. Other than mabye a quarrel in an arena for fun. Because, even power hungry maniacs have to have some sort of sense of unfair.
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wow you must not know me at all if i had game mode 1 i would luv it :)
 
I also vote to remove it since its also been affecting the economy
Ive seen people selling massive boots for 50s, people are pretty much having a 5% chance to make a whole bunch of money
 
So...

Disabling God Apples to make PVP more fair, then adding Prot 5 Unbreaking 5 Diamond Armour which can only be obtained via chance through voting? I have to agree with Cowboys, it seems like a rather overpowered and silly addition. I would say that it should not be removed, although, if possible, edited to Prot 4 Unbreaking 3, considering this is genuinely possible to achieve whilst in game, and rather easy to do so.

It's also been tested by some people, and the Massive Armour, is repairable, using only 23 Vanilla XP levels to do so.
 
I think the armor is perfectly fine and balanced since the removal of god apples, would I prefer god apples to the armor yes. I say that if the armor is removed that god apples should come back. If not then the chances of armor from voting should be at like 1%, I agree with rooseus on that. There are many alternatives to getting rid of the armor or rebalancing it but getting rid of it is one I do not prefer
 
The main problem I have with Massive armor is that it creates such a huge gap between premiums and non-premiums. A full set of Massive armor negates around 96%-98% of the damage you take, and only premiums can use it due to it being diamond. How the heck are non-premiums going to kill someone with that kind of armor? You can't even use the "well get some high axes skill to break that armor" tactic, since its unbreaking V! A premium with Massive armor can literally be smacked with diamond swords for 5 minutes and still won't die. The fact that people can vote 3 times a day on Massive increases the rate at which people get massive armor by a ludicrous level! I'm fairly sure there are at least a dozen people on Massive who already have full sets of Massive armor. If we keep Massive armor as part of the voting rewards, that number will only grow daily. I personally think that Massive armor should be removed entirely, due to the complications of even a single person having a complete set of it. It doesn't matter if a premium is the worst pvper in the world, with Massive armor he can take on an army of non-premiums.
 
Commanderkull said:
Well, I disagree with this simply because of the fact that a lot of people have spent a lot of money on massive armor(including myself). I say you not remove it but reduce the chances of getting it to like 1%. Therefore it is EXTREMELY rare to get. The other stuff is pretty fine.
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Even still though, think about the about 300 people on the server. Say 100 of them vote, okay, they all vote 3 times.
At least 3 people would be getting the Massivearmour, so even still it would be obtainable. It would just take longer, after all, if you've seen what DrFong said, his first vote lead to him getting a MassiveChestPlate.
And, knowing heavyraiders as yourself (Not used in intent to insult) it would really make it unfair, not just to Non-premiums, but even the PREMIUMS being raided, as you can just run in and take them all out. The only way you would be killed easy is if several people at once that are premium with Sharp V axes and Strength potions came up, then you'd die much easier, or say someone hits you with Poison potions, then only about two premiums would be needed. And knowing it is Unbreaking V, the axe wouldn't be destroying it as fast.
 
Well as much as i would hate to see it removed, im gonna move to toms side and ask that instead of removal, could it be edited to standard god armor?
 
Commanderkull said:
Well, I disagree with this simply because of the fact that a lot of people have spent a lot of money on massive armor(including myself). I say you not remove it but reduce the chances of getting it to like 1%. Therefore it is EXTREMELY rare to get. The other stuff is pretty fine.
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This may well be wrong, but I think i'm correct

As far as my calculations go, the probability is 0.025 per vote for the chance of a single piece of Massive armour.

When you want the probability of two or more things happening you multiply their probabilities together.
For example:
For two events A and B,
p (A and B) = p (A) x p (B)
For example, the probability of rolling a 6 on a dice and getting Heads on the toss of a coin is:
image002.gif


Applied to Massive -> 5% chance of falling into the Tier 5 bracket which would be 5/100 equalling 0.05. (Within the bracket out of the 8 items in total half are Massive Armour) 0.05*1/2 =0.025 each player has 3 votes so we can assume people enter with a 0.075 probability of getting a piece of Massive Armour each day which is 7.5% Now, let say 100 people vote in 1 day, that's 300 votes, 7.5% of which will get a piece of Armour. 300*7.5%(or *0.075) =22.5. We can estimate an average of 22.5 pieces of Armour being created each day. EDIT- If you're reading this and my 'point' (<- oh how I make myself laugh)... wasn't apparent I'm basically that this is WAY too many pieces being produced, soon enough the whole server will be ridden with it. It needs to be removed!

-Adding to the quote-

Which as a percentage is 7.5%(per 3 votes), lowering it to just 1% would still create around 4-10 pieces a day (headbang) (Dependant on how many people vote... obviously)

-My own thoughts-

I say scrap the Armour... The staff can never guarantee the magnitude of in game features so I don't want to hear "I paid x amount of silver" its your own fault.

Thanks for reading- Pointy

oh... and feel free to pick apart my maths its been years since I was last in a lesson, this is all just off the top of my head.
 
MrPointyToe said:
This may well be wrong, but I think i'm correct

As far as my calculations go, the probability is 0.025 per vote for the chance of a single piece of Massive armour.

When you want the probability of two or more things happening you multiply their probabilities together.
For example:
For two events A and B,
p (A and B) = p (A) x p (B)
For example, the probability of rolling a 6 on a dice and getting Heads on the toss of a coin is:
image002.gif


Applied to Massive -> 5% chance of falling into the Tier 5 bracket which would be 5/100 equalling 0.05. (Within the bracket out of the 8 items in total half are Massive Armour) 0.05*1/2 =0.025 each player has 3 votes so we can assume people enter with a 0.075 probability of getting a piece of Massive Armour each day which is 2.5% Now, let say 100 people vote in 1 day, that's 300 votes, 2.5% of which will get a piece of Armour. 300*7.5%(or *0.075) =22.5. We can estimate an average of 22.5 pieces of Armour being created each day.

-Adding to the quote-

Which as a percentage is 7.5%(per 3 votes), lowering it to just 1% would still create around 4-10 pieces a day (headbang) (Dependant on how many people vote... obviously)

-My own thoughts-

I say scrap the Armour... The staff can never guarantee the magnitude of in game features so I don't want to hear "I paid x amount of silver" its your own fault.

Thanks for reading- Pointy

oh... and feel free to pick apart my maths its been years since I was last in a lesson, this is all just off the top of my head.
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No point in fixing your math, im just saying, whenever something that deals with pvp comes out everyone rushes to have it removed. Bloodlust, god apples, and now massive armor.
 
favoured said:
The main problem I have with Massive armor is that it creates such a huge gap between premiums and non-premiums. A full set of Massive armor negates around 96%-98% of the damage you take, and only premiums can use it due to it being diamond. How the heck are non-premiums going to kill someone with that kind of armor? You can't even use the "well get some high axes skill to break that armor" tactic, since its unbreaking V! A premium with Massive armor can literally be smacked with diamond swords for 5 minutes and still won't die. The fact that people can vote 3 times a day on Massive increases the rate at which people get massive armor by a ludicrous level! I'm fairly sure there are at least a dozen people on Massive who already have full sets of Massive armor. If we keep Massive armor as part of the voting rewards, that number will only grow daily. I personally think that Massive armor should be removed entirely, due to the complications of even a single person having a complete set of it. It doesn't matter if a premium is the worst pvper in the world, with Massive armor he can take on an army of non-premiums.
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Does anyone get the concept of nagas with poison and a wolf pack. (High gore chance)
 
A few things for me to say...
+Cowboy's post has had the most "agree's" I have seen, and for good reason
+This armour should and NEEDS to be removed
-No downsides.
 
Commanderkull said:
No point in fixing your math, im just saying, whenever something that deals with pvp comes out everyone rushes to have it removed. Bloodlust, god apples, and now massive armor.
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This is very different. It's not about the item; it's about how you get this item and the fact that this (voting) is the only way to get this item.
 
It should be iron, that way nonpremiums can use it. I mean I'm a premium and I realize that the server needs our money to run it, and in return they thank us with some perks.

But restricting rewards? If your rewarded with an item, you should be able to use it, regardless of how you obtain it. So massivearmour should be iron. I mean it's got pro V and unbreaking V Unless they downgrade that, the only difference is anyone can wear the iron one.
 
I also agree to a removement or a downgrade of its enchants or to iron.
The Massive Armor is truely way to overpowered. Following my preposters, I also would suggest do either downgrade its enchants to a "normal" god armor, which is still very strong or to remove it completely, not only the ability to obtain it. In that case, the armor will get in the inventory of the most strongest players after some time and fights what will just make them more stronger, than they actually are.
So, also my vote for the removement of Massive Armor, the only voting achievement that interupts the complete server.
 
Commanderkull said:
Well, I disagree with this simply because of the fact that a lot of people have spent a lot of money on massive armor(including myself). I say you not remove it but reduce the chances of getting it to like 1%. Therefore it is EXTREMELY rare to get. The other stuff is pretty fine.
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You could've said that for god apples too, but they were removed for the better. People have spent much more money on god apples than Massive armor.
 
If you really want to give rid of it without taking it away from the players make it non reparable and remove the posibility of earning it via votes. It wont be a total waste of money that way and it will disapear as time goes on.
 
I won a Golden apple via voting

which kind is it?
 
It would be best to just remove the ability to obtain it. There is no reason to take out the amour that has already been obtained, as that is creating more problems than it is fixing. Because if someone bought something with all their money and then the next day the admins decide to take it away, I would get pretty pissed if that was me, wouldn't you? Eveuntully all the massive armor will break and no one complains. That is the best solution.
 
The problem with leaving it in Massivecraft is that the Unbreaking V enchant will make Massive armor last through almost anything, and you can repair it with just 23 levels.
 
I also was thinking about another idea as a replacement for the Massive Armor. Instead of only removing it and leave the obtainers angry, they should replace the armor with about one day premium or similar.

So remove the armor and replace it with a little amount of premium time. That would give "normal" Non-Premiums the chance to test out premium features in the medieval universe and players who are already premiums, can get the chance to add one of two additional days to their premium time.
 
Commanderkull said:
No point in fixing your math, im just saying, whenever something that deals with pvp comes out everyone rushes to have it removed. Bloodlust, god apples, and now massive armor.
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Because each of those things are op.
Bloodlust: makes pvp laggy and it was harder to find hackers that way.

God apples: Buffed with the 1.6 update, you can watch Grailen's test video that had 4 people with sharp V axes and strength II pots, hitting one person on a god apple.

and now Massive armor: An item that ANYONE can get by simply voting, and the enchants being op.
 
I agree with this.
I love the voting, it gives me a reason to vote beside the fact that the server's awesome, & when I do vote, even if I get a great item, it's not a Massive (da-dum-tsh) advantage.

I voted today, and got an Old Silveredge Guard Hat
Hung it on the wall above my stairs ^_^
 
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