Archived Make All Factions Raidable!

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Theboomyfly

Theboomyfly

Holy Emperor of Belgistan
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Hey people,
Today I started thinking. Well, I declared war on a faction, since the leader stole many things from me when he was still an ally. But he has an underground faction, he could easily be a coward and say: "I'm not letting you in!". That would make making him pay for the theft very hard. And would make my war with him very, very hard...

I know that this will get a lot of dissagrees, but think of this way. Faction A harmed Faction B. You're faction, faction B, is angry because of this. They want to make faction A pay for it. However, faction A is a coward faction, and never gives you a chance to attack. Now this war is hopeless and you can never make them pay.

My idea is simple. If a war with an Underground faction is approved, the staff will make a tunnel to this underground faction, so that they can be attacked. However, they will only make this tunnel if the underground faction doesn't give the attacking faction a chance to attack the underground faction. This tunnel may not be blocked.

What is the use of a war if there aren't any battles so you can make them surrender? Well, let me say it for you, then there is none. Please don't flame and if you dissagree, also tell me why.

Friendly greetings, Theboomyfly.
 
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I agree but disagree at the same time. If that's the case then what use would their defenses be? Being built underground is for the soul purpose of defense. Sounds like you complaining because their defenses are too much for you.
 
1000phoenix said:
I agree but disagree at the same time. If that's the case then what use would their defenses be? Being built underground is for the soul purpose of defense. Sounds like you complaining because their defenses are too much for you.
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I complain because these defences can be abused very easily. Look, I'll give an example. I have a Dwarven faction and I attacked your faction. Well, we killed half of your people and take off with the loot. You're angry because of this attack and declare war on me. Your war gets approved, however, we are cowards and hide in our faction when you try to attack. But we do come out when your good PvP'ers are of and raid you, over and over.
This will cause a one-sided war and gives an unfair feeling. These tunnels would only be made when the war on that faction gets approved, this is just to make that one-sided war in a real and fair war. It's only fair. Plus, these tunnels can easily be lore compliant. :)

Friendly greetings, Theboomyfly.
 
1000phoenix said:
I agree but disagree at the same time. If that's the case then what use would their defenses be? Being built underground is for the soul purpose of defense. Sounds like you complaining because their defenses are too much for you.
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compare it to making a glass roof over your faction that rests on walls, that isn't allowd and your faction is unraidable if you they don't have an entrance, but if you are underground you have in fact a giant roof over your faction connected to wals, add no entrance to that and you have the exact same thing, but then underground, doesn't sound fair to me actually.

someone needs to explain me WHY underground factions with no entrance are allowd but a faction surounded by wals and roof with no entrance is not, or i missed something and then you can completly ignore this post
 
It's been like this for a while, and I don't think having staff build holes into people's builds is going to make them very happy.
 
BenAlex144 said:
It's been like this for a while, and I don't think having staff build holes into people's builds is going to make them very happy.
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It doesn't make people happy when the staff remove their glass roofs or their above cloud level walls neither. Or does it? Plus, let me quote what I said.
I have a Dwarven faction and I attacked your faction. Well, we killed half of your people and take off with the loot. You're angry because of this attack and declare war on me. Your war gets approved, however, we are cowards and hide in our faction when you try to attack. But we do come out when your good PvP'ers are of and raid you, over and over.
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This won't make people happy neither.

Friendly greetings, Theboomyfly.
 
Problem - You make a good point here. I've seen how annoying wars and raids have become in the past thanks to this.

Solution - That sounds like a weird solution to the problem. Temporary grief has never been considered good in the eyes of the community, and leaving it in the hands of staff is just more unnecessary work. I have seen better solutions for this problem, although none of them approved.
 
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@ZIHAMMER1411
Could you explain why you dissagree, please? :)

Laach said:
Problem - You make a good point here. I've seen how annoying wars and raids have become in the past thanks to this.

Solution - That sounds like a weird solution to the problem. Temporary grief has never been considered good in the eyes of the community, and leaving it in the hands of staff is just more unnecessary work. I have seen better solutions for this problem, although none of them approved.
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Well, it doesn't need to be a tunnel. The tunnel was just an idea, it could also be a portal or so. But it is something that needs to be fixed. :/

Friendly greetings, Theboomyfly.
 
While I agree that unraidable factions are highly annoying, there are ways around them. Like, allys can be paid for access to use there portal to the faction you are at war with and so on.
 
krios41 said:
someone needs to explain me WHY underground factions with no entrance are allowd but a faction surounded by wals and roof with no entrance is not, or i missed something and then you can completly ignore this post
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It's not a matter of accessibility, the rule was created to make sure all builds in the worlds were medieval-stlyled and/or fit in with the lore. A base with a giant glass room and tall walls didn't exist in medieval times, but an underground base could be seen as a dwarfish stronghold or Kleinfolk home, or even just bunkers, therefore they are allowed
 
Fellbeast58blue said:
It's not a matter of accessibility, the rule was created to make sure all builds in the worlds were medieval-stlyled and/or fit in with the lore. A base with a giant glass room and tall walls didn't exist in medieval times, but an underground base could be seen as a dwarfish stronghold or Kleinfolk home, or even just bunkers, therefore they are allowed
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based of what you say i can make a giant castle, combletly unraidable because it has no way in and it's allowd?
 
No, weaker factions hide because they dont have the power to fight.
 
Ellimairy said:
No, weaker factions hide because they dont have the power to fight.
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So if an allied faction let's enemies in, steals all your portals and kills all your enemies but cause they have an underground base you can't retaliate you think that's fine?
 
Simply put there's always a way into a faction. It takes a bit of looking.
 
The amount of staff time this would consume makes this unpractical. The very notion of asking staff to pretty much let you in an enemy base because the enemies did you an injustice is silly. Life is not fair.
 
When you encounter underground factions, that's when you should fall to more creative (and legal) tactics to try to get inside.

We won't be digging down into a faction to make it possible for you to raid them.

Besides, any faction is raidable... It's just a matter of finding its weak point.
 
Terrariauk said:
So if an allied faction let's enemies in, steals all your portals and kills all your enemies but cause they have an underground base you can't retaliate you think that's fine?
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I wonder if you are referring to something in specific :P
 
Ok so, that idea with the tunnel thing wouldn't work out very well. Its easy enough to seal off sections of an underground base. However, I do share your irritation against factions that refuse to come out so I can eat them. That said, if I don't feel like fighting, I am more than proud to admit I'd build a dirt box and sit in there saying "lolnope."

There is one solution that has been brought up before, Creeperheal, or a similar plugin. It allows you to destroy blocks with cannons, but after a short time the hole repairs itself. While in theory this would be perfect, however Creeperheal is not Massivecraft Sharding compatible. And it causes a TON of lag. As a result Cay would probably have to code his own plugin to do all that, make it Sharding-compatible, and not lag us all to high-hell. That said, hes busy and I doubt something like this will happen anytime soon, if ever.
 
What about the factions that don't want to go to war or want to stay away from stuff like that? Why not make only the factions that want to join in raidible?
 
The best way into a faction is through a member of that faction.

Rule of Acquisition #98: Every man has his price.
 
This is great. I have an underground faction in the making, and if someone went to was with me, they'd be rather bored. Personally, I'd let them in myself :)

Let the traps deal with them. ^u^
 
I was literally planning to become active again and move my faction underground when I saw this... but since the chances of this ever being approved are pretty much 0 I've got little to worry about.

The way I see it is that if someone is willing to put the shittons of work into making an underground base (that looks good) they deserve to be safe. And if they betray you... well, they have to come out eventually, right? Find their mining network, bribe an ally/member, hack a portal, sneak one of your faction members into their base to build a tunnel for you. Lots of ways to sneak into a base if you're willing to take the time and effort.
 
LeafMC said:
The best way into a faction is through a member of that faction.

Rule of Acquisition #98: Every man has his price.
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Which is why, when my faction starts recruiting, members will be given rather low power.

New members get a 2x2 chunk land for themselves, that's not even connected to the main faction. Should a raid take place, there will be a lockdown switch, and all the portals cut off.

Rule that I made up #1: Every man has his price. Which is why you trust no one.
 
Its a war. Fighting their defense system is your problem. The faction is not supposed to make it easy for raiders to go to war with them! That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If you have a problem with a way defense works than you should not raid in the first place. Oh and btw massive is not for just raiding it is for role play as well.
 
Rose Smith said:
Its a war. Fighting their defense system is your problem. The faction is not supposed to make it easy for raiders to go to war with them! That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If you have a problem with a way defense works than you should not raid in the first place. Oh and btw massive is not for just raiding it is for role play as well.
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You should honestly never have to tell anyone on the forums it's also Roleplay. It's rather obvious. I know for a fact he knows this is a roleplay server.
 
Rose Smith said:
Its a war. Fighting their defense system is your problem. The faction is not supposed to make it easy for raiders to go to war with them! That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If you have a problem with a way defense works than you should not raid in the first place. Oh and btw massive is not for just raiding it is for role play as well.
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That's your opinion and I will respect it. However, I know that this server isn't all about raiding, I play this server for between 1-2 years now, so I know it's mainly a roleplay server. But PvP is an important part too.

To all the rest, I don't really care how many people disagree with this idea. I'm atleast trying to solve a big problem which seems to not only annoy me. And what's with me not being able to handle their defence system? If I camp in my house all the time, I would be seen as a coward, so people hiding in their underground faction are, in my opinion, cowards too.
And if you don't mess with other factions, then you have a big chance that you won't have many wars to deal with. Anyhow, I'll give an example without naming names, that happened to me.
An ally faction their leader destroyed all my portals, harvested the crops, killed our animals, stole from chests and destroyed a lot of our brewing stands. I find this a very low crime since I trusted him/her. However, I declared war on him/her, but, he/she has an underground faction. They could easily be cowards and hide all the time.
I think it isn't unfair that I want a way to raid them, since come on, if I did something like that to a faction, I would be raided all the time. I repeat for the last time to everyone, THIS DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A TUNNEL. We just need a way that everyone can be raided, otherwise, everyone could simply make underground factions, be cowards and no wars would be fought anymore.
That's my opinion, you may disagree with it, but you shall have to respect it, like any opinion.

Friendly greetings, Theboomyfly.
 
I like how the only "agree" on the main post are by solid raiders.
 
-_- Dude bribes are reasonably easy
Getting a portal pass is easyish
Underground facs that look good are amaze but hard to make
Just leave a 5 block gap around the walls of your fac to prevent nerd poles than make all portal rooms locked (seriously man lock them) and Boom A reasonabally safe fac <3
 
Fellbeast58blue said:
It's not a matter of accessibility, the rule was created to make sure all builds in the worlds were medieval-stlyled and/or fit in with the lore. A base with a giant glass room and tall walls didn't exist in medieval times, but an underground base could be seen as a dwarfish stronghold or Kleinfolk home, or even just bunkers, therefore they are allowed
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What about the fact that even underground bases had entrances in medieval times?

And also, usually you wouldn't make an underground base by going straight down in a flat area (and then putting the blocks back), you would use a mountain, and make a flat tunnel into the side of it. Usually the only reason for an underground base in medieval times is... Well I'm pretty sure it's just for easily accessible mining.
(This is if you're building a medieval style base)

EDIT: just to prove my point a little, you would have extremely low oxygen which would run out very quickly if you had an entire faction down there (without at least one entrance). The pressure would make life very uncomfortable (which is why nobody ever did it). It is highly lacking in the defense tactics department (somebody can send their whole army just rampaging through your tunnels to your base, if it is indeed a medieval style base).
You should make an entrance to it, (yes another reason) because lastly, nobody would be able to live in it in medieval times or any other time without an entrance or some air source if you didn't(remember you're in medieval times) (if you're undead this isn't that much more of a problem, so you can block the entrance at some point(s))
 
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Rose Smith said:
Its a war. Fighting their defense system is your problem. The faction is not supposed to make it easy for raiders to go to war with them! That is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. If you have a problem with a way defense works than you should not raid in the first place. Oh and btw massive is not for just raiding it is for role play as well.
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However a base entirely underground (like digging straight down, then putting the blocks back and then eventually tunneling out a base) isn't exactly medieval style. Look at the tools they have to use.
 
Kman133 said:
What about the fact that even underground bases had entrances in medieval times?

And also, usually you wouldn't make an underground base by going straight down in a flat area (and then putting the blocks back), you would use a mountain, and make a flat tunnel into the side of it. Usually the only reason for an underground base in medieval times is... Well I'm pretty sure it's just for easily accessible mining.
(This is if you're building a medieval style base)

EDIT: just to prove my point a little, you would have extremely low oxygen which would run out very quickly if you had an entire faction down there (without at least one entrance). The pressure would make life very uncomfortable (which is why nobody ever did it). It is highly lacking in the defense tactics department (somebody can send their whole army just rampaging through your tunnels to your base, if it is indeed a medieval style base).
You should make an entrance to it, (yes another reason) because lastly, nobody would be able to live in it in medieval times or any other time without an entrance or some air source if you didn't(remember you're in medieval times) (if you're undead this isn't that much more of a problem, so you can block the entrance at some point(s))
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The higher you get the lower the amount of oxygen in the air
 
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