Archived Gift4alls Destroyed Prices - Thread For Alternatives

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Savantly

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After posting numerous threads about fixing the economy, exact the opposite happens. I cannot even begin to tell you how infuriated that this makes me. So let me explain this calmly.

1 month ago:
God Armor - 250 regals
God Sword - 250 regals
God Axe - 200 regals
- Before Gift4all -

Today:
God Armor - 100 regals
God Sword - 20 regals
God Axe - 20 regals
- After Gift4All -

"My usual form of business would be selling god weapons to make up for money lost purchasing potion materials and to pay for my faction's taxes. But now with the new Gift4All donations, and thousands of god weapons being spawned into the server daily, the prices have gone down sharply from around 250 to 20 in a few days." - @Sevak

Changes needed to be made:
Lower the enchants on all Gift4All's (Make it like Diamond "Quality Armor"). Another possibility could be changing the armor to gold armor, making it more for aesthetics and less utilitarian. allowing for god armour and god weapons to be injected this fast into the economy is heinous. So far this has been worse for the economy than Fishing and /fix combined. Not to mention the effects were almost Immediate. Prices should not drop over 90% in a matter of days.

Alternatives - Replacements for Gifts4All

Lore4All
Would allow for the player buying to:
1. Pick an item of their choosing.
2. Custom name Item
3. Choose from basic enchants or derp enchants.
Ex. Flame 1, Fortune 1, Outgoing 1, Trippy 1, Swag 3
4. Custom lore, alternative lore color (Like Peach or Pink)

Added:
ArmorSet4All
Would allow for the player buying to:
1. Pick an armor of their choosing (Leather, or Chain).
2. (Player)'s (Fancy/Party/Assassin/Etc.) Cap/Curiass/Leggings/Boots
3. Choose from basic enchants or derp enchants.
Ex. Flame 1, Fortune 1, Outgoing 1, Trippy 1, Swag 3
4. Custom lore, alternative lore color (Like Peach or Pink)

OldVoting4All
1. Purchase off of server website
2. Randomly assigns each online player a random old voting item.
Staff would have to format a list of all old voting/unobtainable lore items.
So when a person buys OldVoting4All, each player on the server would randomly
receive an item that was on the master list. This option would be harder on staff.
However, I know that this is something that I would enjoy, and it would encourage
players to keep buying OldVoting4All until a player receives the item they want.
Idea based off of comments from @znake1468 Thanks ^_^

Alls donation ideas are completely open and subject for change by staff,
while they are good ideas, some kinks may need to be worked out.​

Allowing for something like this would allow for players to create items that they enjoy, without having immediate negative effects on the server. Please make changes, killing the economy is not a good way to keep players active and coming back. I know that for me, trade is the only thing I enjoy doing on the server. Making impulsive negative economic changes is not the way to keep players like me coming back. As always thanks for your time - Pokyug​
 
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There was a similar idea where there is perhaps a bank of say.. 100 derpy lore items and every player online got a random one of them when the donation was purchased. Everybody doesn't get the exact same item… But they're all pretty much worth the same
 
znake1468 said:
There was a similar idea where there is perhaps a bank of say.. 100 derpy lore items and every player online got a random one of them when the donation was purchased. Everybody doesn't get the exact same item… But they're all pretty much worth the same
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It's a good idea, but i also imagine that it would also be harder to code. Only because you have to give 100 individual players different lore items, each with their own enchants and lore.

The way that my proposal would work, is that there would be a form you'd fill out. The form would have you fill out what lame/derp enchants you would want, what lore would be added, and what the name and type of item would be. The form from there would take the information that the donating player put in, reformat it into a console command. Then when a player successfully pays real money, the console would go ahead and execute the command it had created off of the information provided by donating player. Sounds complicated, but at the same time I see it being a lot easier to code than your suggestion.
 
What I'm saying isn't like that. At least I don't think. What I'm proposing would use the same mechanism that voting uses to give a random item out of a select list.

The donator literally does nothing except for purchase the donation. Very similar to all the donations now.

Imagine if everybody online hit that 7 vote uncommon item all at once. It's like that but from a different list unique to the donation.

The staff or a staff/player thinktank would come up with the grand list and the items will always be there.
 
Make all the Gift4alls into gold armor. That would make them more of a gimmicky item than an actual useful one.
 
znake1468 said:
What I'm saying isn't like that. At least I don't think. What I'm proposing would use the same mechanism that voting uses to give a random item out of a select list.

The donator literally does nothing except for purchase the donation. Very similar to all the donations now.

Imagine if everybody online hit that 7 vote uncommon item all at once. It's like that but from a different list unique to the donation.

The staff or a staff/player thinktank would come up with the grand list and the items will always be there.
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I caught what you're throwing :)
I added an idea similar, named it OldVoting4All, make sure to come check it out @znake1468
 
Make sure to post other ideas here in the thread or message me in a private conversation!!
 
pokyug said:


Lore4All
Would allow for the player buying to:
1. Pick an item of their choosing.
2. Custom name Item
3. Choose from basic enchants or derp enchants.
Ex. Flame 1, Fortune 1, Outgoing 1, Trippy 1, Swag 3
4. Custom lore, alternative lore color (Like Peach or Pink)

​
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If this would become a thing...
i'd use it
 
It's crazy to see how much the server has made from the gift4all. I bet if it was changed to "gold" or below diamond, I really think the donations of gift4all would decrease significantly.
 
Suggested it in another post, but would be cool if instead of just giving people items, players could "purchase" a dungeon or event that unlocks/occurs for a few hours. Encourages donations, and other players to play, instead of just throwing items into their inventory.

Also - voting.

Voting for items should not grant players items per vote, but each vote should be put into a pot and when the pot is full, everyone online recieves a cool, unique lore item. In simplier terms, lets say I cast 3 votes - those would go into the pot which could be something like 30 votes. Now the pot is at 3/30, and when it eventually reaches 30/30 everyone on the server gets an item.

This way, voting will be much more encouraged by other players for the benefit of both themselves, and every other player. It's a win-win.
 
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BenRekt said:
Suggested it in another post, but would be cool if instead of just giving people items, players could "purchase" a dungeon or event that unlocks/occurs for a few hours. Encourages donations, and other players to play, instead of just throwing items into their inventory.
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Click to shrink...

That sounds like a great idea!
 
BenRekt said:
Suggested it in another post, but would be cool if instead of just giving people items, players could "purchase" a dungeon or event that unlocks/occurs for a few hours. Encourages donations, and other players to play, instead of just throwing items into their inventory.

Also - voting.

Voting for items should not grant players items per vote, but each vote should be put into a pot and when the pot is full, everyone online recieves a cool, unique lore item. In simplier terms, lets say I cast 3 votes - those would go into the pot which could be something like 30 votes. Now the pot is at 3/30, and when it eventually reaches 30/30 everyone on the server gets an item.

This way, voting will be much more encouraged by other players for the benefit of both themselves, and every other player. It's a win-win.
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I love the idea of Dungeon Keys :)
 
I'd also like to add something else that nobody has mentioned:

The /color premium upgrade has destroyed wool prices, and I highly doubt it's EULA compliant. (It's taking away the need to buy extra resources for colouring of wools.) As my wool shop is my main source of income, this is really making me worry.

An alternative might be: You are allowed to color, but only to colors that require the same amount of - or less - materials. For example, you can color light blue to light grey, as they both require two dyes to make. However, you cannot color white to red.
 
Eccetra said:
I'd also like to add something else that nobody has mentioned:

The /color premium upgrade has destroyed wool prices, and I highly doubt it's EULA compliant. (It's taking away the need to buy extra resources for colouring of wools.) As my wool shop is my main source of income, this is really making me worry.

An alternative might be: You are allowed to color, but only to colors that require the same amount of - or less - materials. For example, you can color light blue to light grey, as they both require two dyes to make. However, you cannot color white to red.
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This is an excellent concern, however, the original intent of the thread was to address the prices being destroyed through Gift4All. I would be more than glad to help you out in creating a separate thread concerning this similar but different issue :)

Note: Please start a convo here on the forums, so we can start thinking and sharing thoughts on this issue.
 
pokyug said:
This is an excellent concern, however, the original intent of the thread was to address the prices being destroyed through Gift4All. I would be more than glad to help you out in creating a separate thread concerning this similar but different issue :)

Note: Please start a convo here on the forums, so we can start thinking and sharing thoughts on this issue.
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(I didn't think it was a big enough issue to start a seperate thread, and there are already a lot of threads on similar topics at the moment, which is why I plopped it here! Apologies if it was a bit off-topic. I can remove it if you like)
 
Eccetra said:
(I didn't think it was a big enough issue to start a seperate thread, and there are already a lot of threads on similar topics at the moment, which is why I plopped it here! Apologies if it was a bit off-topic. I can remove it if you like)
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No, its a good topic, and i'm sure someone reading may agree with the thought as well. Hopefully someone will pickup on it and address it, if they don't i'll make a thread about it, and when I find more time and finish some more things on my list. :)
 
I would like to mention that lore items have a market just like god items do. If you change it to Lore4All, you just shift the burden towards the RP community. And the RP community is more vulnerable to economic shocks since their only external income is voting right now.
 
Eccetra said:
I'd also like to add something else that nobody has mentioned:

The /color premium upgrade has destroyed wool prices, and I highly doubt it's EULA compliant. (It's taking away the need to buy extra resources for colouring of wools.) As my wool shop is my main source of income, this is really making me worry.

An alternative might be: You are allowed to color, but only to colors that require the same amount of - or less - materials. For example, you can color light blue to light grey, as they both require two dyes to make. However, you cannot color white to red.
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We are in contact with Mojang, and if any of our newly added premium features are in compliant we will do something about it. What is allowed and what is not can be difficult to guess (CreativeGates were allowed after all). But I am gonna quote Mojangs website:
Can I charge for access to server commands?
Yes, as long as their effects are purely cosmetic. Commands that affect gameplay, such as a command to fly, cannot be sold for hard currency.
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The results of /color, are purely cosmetic. No properties of the block is changed, you cannot use it differently than you could before. Yes it is true you can also color it by other means (dye) but that doesn't change the fact that the effects of the command is purely cosmetic.
 
Medvekoma said:
I would like to mention that lore items have a market just like god items do. If you change it to Lore4All, you just shift the burden towards the RP community. And the RP community is more vulnerable to economic shocks since their only external income is voting right now.
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The only thing keeping the authenticity of "Lore items" at the moment is the Purple lore. The suggestion was to open a completely new market of Authentic player created lore items, something that Premium /lore does not provide. All items made with Lore4All would be strictly Peach or Pink lored or any other color that staff would come to terms with (Staff have already mentioned on multiple occasions that Purple lore is strictly only for staff use, and will never be enabled for player usage).
 
Something still needs to be done about this, I mean @Staff allowed players to release Fishing "Quality" armor and weapons to be released into the market through Armor4Alls and Weapon4Alls. Which really confuses me, you guys nerfed fishing because of its negative effects on the economy, then release Gift4Alls that allow a person to destroy the economy for money. This makes no sense to me at all, I really want to hear a justification for this :P

I mean we might as well turn fishing back to what it was 3 years ago at the rate we're going....

I've listed alternatives, that have a lot less harmful effects on the economy, please make sure to read them :)
 
Pokyug, I wouldn't really try tbh. I don't think anything is going to change. It's bringing in loads of money and why would they want to stop that? As far as I can tell, the economy is destroyed either way as thousands and thousands of god stuff is spawned in and if the donation was removed right now, the price of god items would still be low for quite some time, just like diamonds. I think it's pretty much a loss by now.
 
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HeartAched said:
Pokyug, I wouldn't really try tbh. I don't think anything is going to change. It's bringing in loads of money and why would they want to stop that? As far as I can tell, the economy is destroyed either way as thousands and thousands of god stuff is spawned in. If the donation was removed right now, the price of god axes would still be low for quite some time, just like diamonds. I think it's pretty much a loss by now.
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Someone had got to care, and if your not the person who is willing to do so, then I will :)
I've been on the server at least 40 hours within the past 3 days, I have not seen one Gift4All purchased in that time. Those Gift4Alls brought in money for the first couple days they were out, and that's been about it. However, those few days did decrease the value of God gear by over 50% in a matter of a few days. I know that people are gonna go buy them again soon, and the prices don't need to be lowered again :P
I've started from scratch 4 days ago and I already have a Double chest of God shit, tell me that, that is not bad.
 
pokyug said:
Someone had got to care, and if your not the person who is willing to do so, then I will :)
I've been on the server at least 40 hours within the past 3 days, I have not seen one Gift4All purchased in that time. Those Gift4Alls brought in money for the first couple days they were out, and that's been about it. However, those few days did decrease the value of God gear by over 50% in a matter of a few days. I know that people are gonna go buy them again soon, and the prices don't need to be lowered again :P
I've started from scratch 4 days ago and I already have a Double chest of God shit, tell me that, that is not bad.
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I didn't say I didn't care. But I just don't think anything is going to change lol. I'm inactive as it is so I haven't really seen any of the new prices.
 
Eccetra said:
I'd also like to add something else that nobody has mentioned:

The /color premium upgrade has destroyed wool prices, and I highly doubt it's EULA compliant. (It's taking away the need to buy extra resources for colouring of wools.) As my wool shop is my main source of income, this is really making me worry.

An alternative might be: You are allowed to color, but only to colors that require the same amount of - or less - materials. For example, you can color light blue to light grey, as they both require two dyes to make. However, you cannot color white to red.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

This is actually EULA compliant, we did ask Mojang specifically about it.
 
pokyug said:
After posting numerous threads about fixing the economy, exact the opposite happens. I cannot even begin to tell you how infuriated that this makes me. So let me explain this calmly.

1 month ago:
God Armor - 250 regals
God Sword - 250 regals
God Axe - 200 regals
- Before Gift4all -

Today:
God Armor - 100 regals
God Sword - 20 regals
God Axe - 20 regals
- After Gift4All -

"My usual form of business would be selling god weapons to make up for money lost purchasing potion materials and to pay for my faction's taxes. But now with the new Gift4All donations, and thousands of god weapons being spawned into the server daily, the prices have gone down sharply from around 250 to 20 in a few days." - @Sevak

Changes needed to be made:
Lower the enchants on all Gift4All's (Make it like Diamond "Quality Armor"). Another possibility could be changing the armor to gold armor, making it more for aesthetics and less utilitarian. allowing for god armour and god weapons to be injected this fast into the economy is heinous. So far this has been worse for the economy than Fishing and /fix combined. Not to mention the effects were almost Immediate. Prices should not drop over 90% in a matter of days.

Alternatives - Replacements for Gifts4All

Lore4All
Would allow for the player buying to:
1. Pick an item of their choosing.
2. Custom name Item
3. Choose from basic enchants or derp enchants.
Ex. Flame 1, Fortune 1, Outgoing 1, Trippy 1, Swag 3
4. Custom lore, alternative lore color (Like Peach or Pink)

Added:
ArmorSet4All
Would allow for the player buying to:
1. Pick an armor of their choosing (Leather, or Chain).
2. (Player)'s (Fancy/Party/Assassin/Etc.) Cap/Curiass/Leggings/Boots
3. Choose from basic enchants or derp enchants.
Ex. Flame 1, Fortune 1, Outgoing 1, Trippy 1, Swag 3
4. Custom lore, alternative lore color (Like Peach or Pink)

OldVoting4All
1. Purchase off of server website
2. Randomly assigns each online player a random old voting item.
Staff would have to format a list of all old voting/unobtainable lore items.
So when a person buys OldVoting4All, each player on the server would randomly
receive an item that was on the master list. This option would be harder on staff.
However, I know that this is something that I would enjoy, and it would encourage
players to keep buying OldVoting4All until a player receives the item they want.
Idea based off of comments from @znake1468 Thanks ^_^

Alls donation ideas are completely open and subject for change by staff,
while they are good ideas, some kinks may need to be worked out.​

Allowing for something like this would allow for players to create items that they enjoy, without having immediate negative effects on the server. Please make changes, killing the economy is not a good way to keep players active and coming back. I know that for me, trade is the only thing I enjoy doing on the server. Making impulsive negative economic changes is not the way to keep players like me coming back. As always thanks for your time - Pokyug​
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Click to shrink...


The problem with removing the gifts4all being diamond and usable is that nobody would buy it. The server NEEDS money to pay for itself that is no secret and we expected that this would actually be bought a lot in the beginning but lately it has decreased immensely so in my opinion it will balance out accordingly after a while.
 
BenRekt said:
Suggested it in another post, but would be cool if instead of just giving people items, players could "purchase" a dungeon or event that unlocks/occurs for a few hours. Encourages donations, and other players to play, instead of just throwing items into their inventory.

Also - voting.

Voting for items should not grant players items per vote, but each vote should be put into a pot and when the pot is full, everyone online recieves a cool, unique lore item. In simplier terms, lets say I cast 3 votes - those would go into the pot which could be something like 30 votes. Now the pot is at 3/30, and when it eventually reaches 30/30 everyone on the server gets an item.

This way, voting will be much more encouraged by other players for the benefit of both themselves, and every other player. It's a win-win.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

We are looking into Events or dungeons and other things as a donation feature, it takes a lot of coding to make this work in reality but we are as i said looking into this being a feature.
 
Thortuna said:
The problem with removing the gifts4all being diamond and usable is that nobody would buy it. The server NEEDS money to pay for itself that is no secret and we expected that this would actually be bought a lot in the beginning but lately it has decreased immensely so in my opinion it will balance out accordingly after a while.
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It will only even out if you keep the armor durability the same and /fix at 50 regals for a full fix. Thanks Tuna :)
 
Thortuna said:
We are looking into Events or dungeons and other things as a donation feature, it takes a lot of coding to make this work in reality but we are as i said looking into this being a feature.
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The player base has a lot of talent, you should let the players know if you need any help :)
 
And by the way, your poll is insanely one sided. If you want to create a proper poll then input neutral alternatives and not trying to scew the results.
 
pokyug said:
The player base has a lot of talent, you should let the players know if you need any help :)
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Its not that we need help but we need a feasible feature, that is codeable and entertaining enough that people will buy it. Coding is not just snapping your fingers although many do believe so. It can take days or weeks to code something you would assume is simple but it isnt always as easy as that.
 
pokyug said:
It will only even out if you keep the armor durability the same and /fix at 50 regals for a full fix. Thanks Tuna :)
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I dont think we have mentioned changing these values anywhere so far? We are pretty happy with what we have ended up at for those things at the moment
 
Thortuna said:
Its not that we need help but we need a feasible feature, that is codeable and entertaining enough that people will buy it. Coding is not just snapping your fingers although many do believe so. It can take days or weeks to code something you would assume is simple but it isnt always as easy as that.
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A completely customizable item where you can give it individualized lore, pick what item it is and the name.... Not Entertaining??
Allowing players to receive old and otherwise unobtainable voting items through the click of a button and a withdrawal from their Paypal.... Something people wouldn't do??
Making an opportunity for players to receive an Entire armor set with their own name, lore and material type.. Not interesting or Sought after??

I understand that it take time... but only a day to a week of coding for potentially thousands dollars in the future. That seems like a no-brainer to me.. but what do I know??
That I would personally purchase each one of these ideas if they were to be implemented.
That is what I know.

That being said.. I will create an unbiased poll, to see what people would pay for. From there you can see what the player base is telling you.
Tuna, I like you as a person but this is where I'm going to disagree with you.
Ruining the player experience in turn for money is not ethical.
I will run a poll on the effect it has had on players as well, if results end in favor of my opnion. I would kindly ask for Armor4Alls and GodWeapons4Alls to be removed.
 
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pokyug said:
A completely customizable item where you can give it individualized lore, pick what item it is and the name.... Not Entertaining??
Allowing players to receive old and otherwise unobtainable voting items through the click of a button and a withdrawal from their Paypal.... Something people wouldn't do??
Making an opportunity for players to receive an Entire armor set with their own name, lore and material type.. Not interesting or Sought after??

I understand that it take time... but only a day to a week of coding for potentially thousands dollars in the future. That seems like a no-brainer to me.. but what do I know??
That I would personally purchase each one of these ideas if they were to be implemented.
That is what I know.

That being said.. I will create an unbiased poll, to see what people would pay for. From there you can see what the player base is telling you.
Tuna, I like you as a person but this is where I'm going to disagree with you.
Ruining the player experience in turn for money is not ethical.
I will run a poll on the effect it has had on players as well, if results end in favor of my opnion. I would kindly ask for Armor4Alls and GodWeapons4Alls to be removed.
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Customizable items that you can give individualized lore is not currently possible to put in the shop, trust me we have thought about it. It takes a huge amount of coding to do this which is why it is not implemented yet.

Old unobtainable voting items 4 all sure that is a good idea! I will bring that on to the direction meeting.

Entire armor set with their own name lore and material type sure that is nice as well but you do realize everyone on the server would get this exact armor set? You would then be ruining the price of leather for example as well.... We are not allowed to let people purchase things just for themselves when it comes to these things.

You may think it takes a day or a week when in reality coding can take much longer then that. You are making assumptions and our coders have real lives, school, jobs to go to as well.

I honestly dont believe a poll on the forums is an accurate reading of what the playerbase wants. Do you know how many players we have that never ever visit the forums? More then you would think. So even if you have 10-20 people agreeing with you that does not mean that the rest of the 2000 logins a day does..

And this isnt a question about being ethical its about survival. Would you want a bad economy or no server at all? Because that is the reason right there, we have to make up the money we used to get from premium in other ways, all that money goes to server survial.

I also dont like ultimatums and will under no circumstance say yes we will remove Armor4All or GodWeapons4All. We are monitoring the situation, but as we can see the Gift4All was very popular the first day or two then it has been going down, as it is with most new shiny things. They are popular for a bit then they lose the attraction and get phased out or replaced by newer shinier things.
 
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