Where would this detailed document be to see. Is there some sort of link somewhere or a post detailing everything about Empires.
It has yet to be released to the public, waiting on the go ahead from Jared before I can share it and get all your opinions.
What you like: I like the idea behind this. I do still argue that the point of factions is for players to make their own identity. But, in the case of CoN, I feel like there was a bit too much player input required for that sort of thing to be viable for people who just want to jump in the action, and I feel this fits that just perfectly. This creates some avenues for having a direct interaction with lore completely unlike CoN, and contributing to the nation of the asian invasion for world domination sounds fun. Also really love the attempts to expand on CoN, despite CoN's limits, though this does still feel like CoN, but 2.0. While it is great you're trying to provide a platform for new players, remember this is mainly going to have to benefit established factions more than noobs, since we want to move those noobs to actual factions, and not withhold them from the playerbase at large. Don't treat them like cattle, treat them like people, and take the 10 minutes it takes to explain Traits to them for goodness sake. But, I like the intent. What you don't like: How much like CoN it is. Straight up. I feel like there's much more potential behind creating pre-set empires in factions that you can choose whether or not to participate in than simply wrapping it around CoN like cheap aluminum foil. At the end of the day, it'll still be the same sides not really doing all that much for it. But! At least it will be easier to access. Which I do like. Although, like I said above, I don't much like these starting empires that would clutch new players. This was tried on A'therys and most noobs would never join a player town because.. well.. the starting towns acted as an f home, had an ender chest, and gave you basics. After reading the thread, I also question how many roleplayers you plan to try and lure over to capitals of each empire, considering they'd more or less be PVP-on if I'm understanding this right. Which defeats the whole purpose behind this setup, as roleplayers rarely leave their favorite parts of Regalia, or venture outside the walls of Regalia (despite the nobility estates!) back in V4 (Except for a certain wayward vampire group that took refuge in a farm, then a cave, then a huge ruins. Hehe.) There needs to be some sort of other selling point, honestly, as the divide between factions/rp is too great at this time to really consider merging them like so. I don't like how shallow the example factions are, I know they're just examples, but I'd like to see some collab with a lorestaff on writing something for Essalonia, something that's more fitting than asians randomly caring about wildlife preservation and qadir somehow being a dead race. If you're gonna go with making it lore-fit, go all the way, since this server is one of those servers that gives 110% on their lore and I think everyone would prefer to see this do the lore justice if this is meant to directly interact with lore. I'm also noticing there's no inherent block to overcrowding one side. I know you subscribe to the idea that "if there's too many on one side they'll just naturally flow out" but let's be honest here, people get really sweaty for mineman. It's not necessary right now, and I don't personally think it's needed too badly, but it's worth bringing up there may be a need for a hardcap on how many can crowd one faction versus every other faction, and design the system in such a way the leading staff of each empire may be tasked with balancing out things becoming too topheavy, at least so there's a fair balance between two empires. Mind, I don't mean skill-wise, but numbers wise. The thing I absolutely hate the most though, is the lack of activities to do for an empire that don't have to do with PVP. Like, really? You couldn't even be bothered to copy+paste the current economy points and build points currently in CoN and note them down as a work in progress? Makes me question the intent behind this, just a bit. Especially with the passive-aggressive jab of "show players staff care!!". Well, being petty aside.. It seriously needs non-pvp elements to gain points, otherwise I couldn't imagine this being accepted. I'll outline some examples in the section under this. But this is an obvious one, factions is not just a PVP world, this has been established already in the thread. But most ungodly of all, where are some rewards and premise behind it? One of the problems currently plaguing CoN like a tumor is the fact that once all is said and done, the most you're getting out of it is MC pride and maybe a meme-y lore item. I feel like this needs to greatly differ from CoN's current form in that factions get tangible rewards. Chestfuls of Alchemy Reagents, various minerals and items, sets of armor.. christ, some item that makes you shoot fucking lasers out of your eyes! Literally anything but a pat on the back and being told "yeah ur totes rp'worth now ;))" with no real effect. What you'd do differently: What I'd like to see is this conflicting directly with CoN as a starter. Have these upstart empires be one of the many pieces of the world wide game we're envisioning here. Join an Empire? You have instant comradery with other members of that Empire, access to the beating heart that is that Empire's capital. I'd like to see some nation-specific goods as well, which I'll describe in the Rewards section I'll write up. But in exchange, you're basically giving your efforts to a machine that you've chosen. Albeit a very efficient machine. Or, you can go the solo route, become a great house of your own, almost akin to one of these Empires, but must do all the work yourself. But, you then gain your own path, your own will as a solo faction functioning as a great house, and these would follow the same routes as CoN. I'd also like to see the Faith ideas we had play into this Empire vs CoN setup. Have the empires maintain their own Faith, and require each faction to follow that Faith, and only have the strengths, and weaknesses, of that faith, whilst the soloist factions instead may choose their own faiths. Of course, this is not required, as Tech is up to their ass in techwork to do, but faith tie-ins seem like a natural expansion on the Empires that would make sense as give-take effect on joining an empire. I'd like to see the Empires levy taxes, requirements, etc on their factions, as this'd ensure anyone in it is invested in some way. Don't worry, I will draw out the rewards as my last section, so it's not just a mere setback to join an Empire, whilst the soloists may manage their taxes and the like by themselves. As for the trying to lure roleplayers over.. I hate to say it, but consider getting assistance of a lorestaff. Each of these empires will have one thing in common in that they'd appeal to xenophobic/racist characters and, in the case of the vampire faction, appeal to those wanting a quick and easy place to retreat to. Remember roleplayers dislike things outside their control (hence why you rarely see people roleplay out getting diseased, getting an illness, dying of random causes unless they're shelfing/ending the character, stuff like vampirism being re-written to be 100% guaranteed infection rate because nobody would RP it out and even then apparently from what I read it's still fussy), or at least being given no warning. So, I'd argue, maintain a PVP-off flag in these major capitals, but divide the capitals into sectors, districts, much like how Regalia is set up, and from there, allow PVP to be toggled on within a district from an invader's input, with a warning to any in that district. But I feel skeptical about even that level of protection. For the factions themselves, I would love to see some flavor injected into them, because they feel rather dry at the moment. Of course, this may require some work/guidance from Lorestaff. But as an example, like I'd described to Violettee in DMs.. consider swapping the vampire faction to be some sort of offshoot of the small nation of Dorkarth, which is an actual thing in lore as of right now, and even have a Bloodline of vampirism the nation has mutated. The nation is more or less a hierarchal land, with desprinces(ses), Varlords, Alais, and a few varghul sitting at the top, some varghul and other very strong/intelligent mutations leading the administration roles, some lower-end mutations making up the dark citizenry and then the actual still-uninfected cattle that the entire nation feeds on for survival, which they tend to replenish by raiding and injecting themselves into other lands around them. Dorkarth is also not *too far* from Essalonia, in fact it's much closer to Essa than it is Regalia, yet we have quite a handful of characters from Dorkarth in Regalia. It's not hard to imagine there may be one of such groups trying to establish a foothold in Essalonia, and are welcoming any fanggots and ner-do-wells to assist them in such. Especially since it seems to be in such a state of turmoil, what with the Bazdari, Insani Inquisition (rip insani lmfao didn't even stick around for pvp to make a return), and Regalia trying to maintain some level of control in Essalonia. For the anticrowding I mentioned above, I'd imagine anywhere from 2:1 to 1.75:1 ratio is safe and workable. This probably shouldn't be implemented early on, but left out until much later on when we have more than 20 people who would participate in this. But when the numbers get up to 100 or so, then overcrowding could definitely become a concern. So, when an empire starts approaching having twice as many active players as the next largest empire, it may be time to consider cutting that big ol' empire down, as much salt as this would summon. Just a thought if this goes big. Now, seriously. I'll hold back my salt for now, but this needs some form of non-pvp point gain. I don't care what, be it some form of non clicky-clicky event players take part in, like the normal non-pvp events we have now, attach point values to them. Or consider scaling the Economy rule in CoN, removing the cap on it (once we get rid of the dupers.), and making that effectively a point sink. Get the builders involved, provide points for them building their towns in the style of the empire in question. Make some of the baver-esque events that were suggested play into the empires, where representing your empire or CoN house grants points based on how well you do in the demonic invasion or whatever the hell happens. Point being, for the love of god, give us non-pvp point gains. And lastly, Reward. Why do I care about doing all this, what does doing well get me? I could cop out and say it should be up to the staff leading the empires, but.. Consider guild-like rewards, with a tier system of faction contribution per month to gain and retain access to privileges within an Empire. Consider things like access to unique traits and Faith bonuses. Having a dubchest in the capital city that serves as a personal vault alongside other members of the empire. Access to some sort of coffer or deposit you can draw some amount of items from daily. Factions points via the new faction points mentioned in some of the more recent announcements. Special empire-specific items that have unique effects, like bottled blood that heals unholy traited players only for the vampire faction, stuff like that. You get the idea, put some weight behind being an Empire participant. Apply some weaknesses to balance it out for the Soloists. Would you participate? In it's current form? It's basically just reskinned CoN. I really would prefer this to be more depthy than CoN, and fill in the gaps CoN has. I kinda technically already play in CoN, but very rarely do I actively do much with it. So, I guess yes? But not really? Very little appeals to me in this regard because if I wanted to RP, I'd just write a character for it. if i missed anything in my post just poke me or something im done writing this now i'm taking up an entire page by myself lmfao
Rewards are not being discussed as it is not our place to make them. The four example empires are just examples. We aren't trying to merge the two sides of the server together, rather just use the source material of Massivecraft and make the lore the entire server, not just roleplay. We have thought of other events for players to earn points rather than just PvP events, and the build/economy points weren't apart of that. As for the anti crowding, this has been an issue in the past and the player base dealt with it on its own, there doesn't need to be a strict rule implemented to counter this. PvP factions have been balancing themselves for years, when one PvP faction is winning all the time and becomes no fun for them to PvP, they break up and join different sides. Turning off the PvP-flag in the empire factions ruins the point of Survival, you join a factions survival server knowing you could be killed by another player.
Based on the fact that they were basically zero rewards for crisis handed out, in either iteration, I'd ask you who's place is it to make them if it's not us and clearly not the staff from experience with CoK and CoN. That's why it's a big deal to know about the rewards because we were told we'd get them with CoK/CoN and never did
We want to make the suggestion worth doing without adding rewards, after we manage that. Then rewards would be just a bonus to doing it.
Updated more detailed version If you have questions or ideas to improve, please just respond to this thread using the previous format.
Document cleaned, please use the format given in this thread and respond on this thread. Let's keep all the responses in one place.
I'm just going to quote the relevant sections from the document and respond to them here after I already responded there and you deleted all the comments, without telling anybody. Spoiler: Empire Selection Section An Ailor, Chien’ji, Qadir and Vampire are seemingly at odds with each other. Upon approaching them, they each explain their side of the story, and ask you to join them. Will you take up their offer? Or will you simply walk by? (Choose wisely, your decision will be final for the Season (further below). You are choosing a cause not a race. ❂ “You there! My Name’s Bayard Engerran, I’m a squire sent by the Regalian Empire, these idiots keep getting in my way! Hey, you look pretty tough, What do you say you join my army and we’ll wipe the floor with them, together? I’m sure there’s plenty in it for you.“ Yes - “Excellent! You have made the right choice, warrior. Follow me and we’ll get you all set up!” /f home RegalianEmpire No - “GAH! You’re no better than them!” 〶 “Traveller you must help us! These strange people will surely plunge our lands into darkness! They have already destroyed so much and take what isn’t theirs. I don’t like conflict but sometimes it has to be done, or there will be nothing left to defend! Oh what am I going to do? Traveller, will you help me?“ Yes - “Finally some hope! I know together we can make the change this world needs! Btw my names Okuni, Leader of the Hanamichi, Quickly now, come with me, we should meet the others” /f home Hanamichi No - “I understand traveller, this is not your war” ∅ “My people used to be fierce warriors, we ruled the great deserts of Farad’een, only for these fools to show us such disrespect! We will rise up again and rule these new lands! Will you join us or will you fall victim to our blades? The choice is yours.” Yes - “Welcome kin! Follow me and we’ll start the initiation process.” /f home Immortals No - “Then your fate is sealed.” ㊉ “Who do you think you are? wait a minute, you could actually be of some use, tell me sundweller, have you ever tasted power? If you help me I can give you everything your puny mortal heart could ever desire … What do you say?” Yes - “Perfect.. Hold still.” *You’ve been bitten!* “Follow me to join the others.” /f home Draefend No - “I guess I was right in thinking your species are weak” Choose to walk away Stand alone factions and players who wish to challenge the Empires. My main issue here is that the little bit of backstory you get from each of these people that are supposed to be representing the four empires is at best lackluster, and mainly more pathetic and half ass. The point I'm trying to get at here is that regardless of if you wrote one paragraph or one whole page of backstory for each empire, it still feels very unnatural, and well, fake. I don't think you've tackled a good way to get people to care about the empire their part of. At least when we talk about faction conflicts, usually conflicts between two factions can be tied back to some incident. Ideally it's good drama that actually happened. In this empire situation, all four just appear out of thin air with extremely thin backstories and barely any reasons for you to fight for them. It's just not going to do it for some people. I anticipate people at same some point stopping and asking themselves, "What am I fighting for? Why the hell am I even fighting for the empire/am a part of it?" And with that, the immersion is gone and people see no reason to continue on with the system because it's just simply not engaging enough. Spoiler: Joining a faction within an empire but might possibly want to help relieve staff from any new player duties Having staff physically in a faction babying members and teaching them how to play the game is wrong. It takes time away from staff to do other things. It doesn't fit with MassiveCraft's idea of factions since its inception, which is: we don't baby and hold the hands of players in the survival world. MassiveCraft staff have done a very good job of keeping mainly a hands off approach to influencing the faction world. I personally thought a line was crossed with COK/CON and how much it tried to force players and factions to do certain things to participate in the system. It ultimately failed, because it was not a good system that encouraged actual faction development. All the ideas you have for events to get points are either carried over from COK/CON, or are grabbed from off server. All these ideas are just filler because actual good ideas for ways to get points couldn't be thought up so it was just copy+paste time. The Death Run and Splash or Splat are two good examples of shitty ideas that have nothing to do with a medieval factions environment and are just filler. This section is by far one of the weakest sections of your document and should be completely reworked. If this ideas was faction based like COK/CON, I would suggest using FactionAccomplishments and giving points for things like getting to 10,20,30,40,50 members, money in bank, player level activity, etc. Actual things that you reward with points that in turn drive leaders to develop their factions. But since this idea is based around empires, you can throw that out the window. Spoiler: Raiding “Knock Knock Draefend”, allied factions in the Empire can then choose whether or not they want to gear up and defend. (Should there be some disadvantage to not defending? Since people might knock knock with only a few opposing players being online) This whole section is just really stupid and shows not a lot of thought went in here. "Knock knock" has always been more of a meme based way of letting the person you're raiding know you're there. It's because you'd run up outside their house and could see them inside or the entrance to their /f home was a gate or doors. Hence Knock Knock. If you were putting in effort here, you could have gone with something even just a bit more medieval and realistic like "Must announce in general chat: "Faction x of the x empire declares a raid against faction x of the x empire! Glory to X!" And that would had been better than knock knock. It would have shown you were at least taking it seriously. This part here was really just the icing on the shit cake of an idea. After bringing up my concerns about this, someone in the factions Discord mentioned you want to try and let the idea stand on its own legs without the need for rewards to be present. Confirm or deny this. And if this is true, then your idea is doomed to fail. How do you expect anyone to get interested in something and want to put in the time and effort to win and you can't even tell them what they win if they do?
I totally agree!! It's what I was saying from the beginning. after two failed iterations of crisis and people being promised rewards they didn't get, it would be nice to actually discuss rewards. Maybe if this idea came before crisis screwed all of that up, then we could live in a fantasy world where we wouldn't need to discuss rewards.... But after winning Crisis five times and not seeing a single reward I'd like to talk about how we fix that issue this time around.
@Alj23 I posted that you were to respond to this thread and not on the document, and even when I deleted the comments, I posted here that o did but saved all of them on a document. Also we are not discussing rewards and won't for a while. We want this suggestion to be worth participating without rewards as it would give survival players something to do... If you played more you'd hear people stating there's nothing to do anymore besides raodong.
You'll notice I said I'd like them in the factions because I feel staff "precence" helps factions. I followed it up with the process for having 4 walls and a roof could be AUTOMATED. (Think regalian renting system)Please read. I actually want current players who don't have the time to build a faction to volunteer instead and treat it as their own. Because there are people out there who like being helping hands.
It's badly wrote because it's just an example. It's not final and not at all what I want to be the final product. That is fore lore staff to deal with. Not me. Take it with a pinch of salt.
This comment is fair, and true. However, once again, just examples. Whoever the Event staff are, I would like to hear what events could possibly be tied into Factions and lore to make interesting unique events for our server. The only event I do want to go through, is Siege.
I'm not allowed to mention rewards or suggest them. I am not staff so it's not my call and people think this is actually happening and would cause a fuss. I understand we need rewards. I understand people fight for rewards. But there does need to be a reasons to work together to succeed, a goal set for the new players. I think Squids unlocking Darkrooms is a good example of this.
You're just nitpicking now. It's a rough draft. Obviously people won't actually be required to say "knock knock". I'm not a staff member, this is wrote by a normal player. My posts don't have to be held to such a high standard.
This is literally me. This is why I enjoy the idea being able to participate without having to maintain
I talked about something similar to this about a year ago, but it got shut down instantly. Hopefully you guys can push this somewhere
