Archived Chest Lock Fee

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eman1000

eman1000

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I understand why you charge regals to lock a chest. That's not what I have a problem with.

Here's my question:
Why can't chests give a refund after unlocking them?

I've been playing on this server for two and a half years. I've accumulated a few items. Even after taking out the junk, I will be forced to spend 1.5-2k to move my stuff. I don't want to pay for my stuff again :)


Benefits of a refund policy:

- excellent incentive for players to unlock their chests before switching factions, which avoids having to track down ex-faction mates and bugging staff to unlock stuff

- extra spending money that can go into the economy

- helps poor/new players who couldn't otherwise afford to move, which could cause them to quit the server out of frustration

- makes eman happy

Please drop a positive rating if you agree!
 
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eman1000 said:
I understand why you charge regals to lock a chest. That's not what I have a problem with.

Here's my question:
Why can't chests give a refund after unlocking them?

I've been playing on this server for two and a half years. I've accumulated a few items. Even after taking out the junk, I will be forced to spend 1.5-2k to move my stuff. I don't want to pay for my stuff again :)


Benefits of a refund policy:

- excellent incentive for players to unlock their chests before switching factions, which avoids having to track down ex-faction mates and bugging staff to unlock stuff

- extra spending money that can go into the economy

- helps poor/new players who couldn't otherwise afford to move, which could cause them to quit the server out of frustration

- makes eman happy

Please drop a positive rating if you agree!
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It was added as a money sink.

This would remove the money sink.
 
Terrariauk said:
It was added as a money sink.

This would remove the money sink.
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But if it was added for the sole purpose of being a money sink. The team DOES affect the economy. Adding more deflation which many people do not like. Even removing this will /not/ cause price to rise.

I do support this idea.
Especially because of
eman1000 said:
I
- excellent incentive for players to unlock their chests before switching factions, which avoids having to track down ex-faction mates and bugging staff to unlock stuff
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Partially, I support this idea. Initially, it seems to make perfect sense as then people will not lose money if they decide to lock chests and move factions. However, as @Terrariauk stated, it is a money sink. The more money people spend on this, the more they'll need to make back from selling items, so it will actually drive up the prices of said items as people need to sell them at a greater profit. So, that being said, why not come to a compromise? Partially refund the money, say 5r. This will still remove some of the money from the economy, while making the ability to move items that much easier. That also being said, when moving factions, I find the best way to do it is just to move part of your items, and sell the rest. A new faction should be a new start, at least, that's my opinion on it. Or, if you want to create a secure area within which you can store your items, just give yourself /f access to the chunks your items are in. That way no one can take them off you, and you save yourself the trouble of spending 10r per chest to lock
 
Tokugawryuu said:
Partially, I support this idea. Initially, it seems to make perfect sense as then people will not lose money if they decide to lock chests and move factions. However, as @Terrariauk stated, it is a money sink. The more money people spend on this, the more they'll need to make back from selling items, so it will actually drive up the prices of said items as people need to sell them at a greater profit. So, that being said, why not come to a compromise? Partially refund the money, say 5r. This will still remove some of the money from the economy, while making the ability to move items that much easier. That also being said, when moving factions, I find the best way to do it is just to move part of your items, and sell the rest. A new faction should be a new start, at least, that's my opinion on it. Or, if you want to create a secure area within which you can store your items, just give yourself /f access to the chunks your items are in. That way no one can take them off you, and you save yourself the trouble of spending 10r per chest to lock
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This might make the prices rise a little.
But money sinks means less money which means deflation which means lowered prices. Simple math, that is how economy works. I think this thing cause more deflation than inflation.
 
Madus said:
This might make the prices rise a little.
But money sinks means less money which means deflation which means lowered prices. Simple math, that is how economy works. I think this thing cause more deflation than inflation.
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This, we need costs to rise, not go down. I'm no expert but this seems to me to be a great way of inflating the economy, which is good atm.
 
I don't see... There would be more money, costs would rise, but it would make absolutely no difference as both rose. Money in the market rose, and costs rose?
 
Terrariauk said:
I don't see... There would be more money, costs would rise, but it would make absolutely no difference as both rose. Money in the market rose, and costs rose?
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But we could move, without it costing a lot.
Also people would remove their locks, so old faction members don't leave old chests.
 
We have enough money sinks.
Maybe full refund for the first few chests you unlock than a discount on all the others such as 3-5r

This would save all the locked doors and locked chest left around in factions by saying Hey you get some more money if you remove this!
 
eman1000 said:
- extra spending money that can go into the economy
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This is the exact reason that they don't want to give a refund. While everyone likes money, if one is getting more money, the only thing that will happen is one's money will lose some of its value, and one will end up with as much value in money as one had beforehand, at least this will be the general result, with a number of exceptions to both ends.

Terrariauk said:
I don't see... There would be more money, costs would rise, but it would make absolutely no difference as both rose. Money in the market rose, and costs rose?
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I'm no economist, but I know that a number of disadvantages are caused by high inflation rates. Up until recently, inflation rates were high, incredibly so in relation to real life money. Now, while this may be mere in game money, the fact that it is traded for IRL money should be considered before dismissing the drawbacks. The problem of boom and bust cycles is apparent in history, and could frustrate players if repeated to an exaggerated scale in MassiveCraft, particularly if a player had recently bought regals. It also reduces the value of savings. If a player were to leave a year or so ago with 5000 regals in savings, upon return he would find a great devaluation in his money. Finally, it can be a bit of pain, since shops require constant adjustment to counter dropping prices.

We do not want deflation, rather a moderately low rate of inflation would be preferable. Therefore, I feel that the economy should be monitored and, if possible, the amount paid towards LWC locks. This could be a consideration in refunds. I do rather like @Tokugawryuu 's idea. Finally, a few people complain that other people have less chests so have to spend less money, however, if one has more chests, one probably has more money.

EDIT: Fun lil' graph I found to show how a boom and bust economic cycle works. Taken from the United Kingdom's Office for National Statistics.
economic-growth-yearly-1949-2010.jpg
 
Oxoman said:
This is the exact reason that they don't want to give a refund. While everyone likes money, if one is getting more money, the only thing that will happen is one's money will lose some of its value, and one will end up with as much value in money as one had beforehand, at least this will be the general result, with a number of exceptions to both ends.


I'm no economist, but I know that a number of disadvantages are caused by high inflation rates. Up until recently, inflation rates were high, incredibly so in relation to real life money. Now, while this may be mere in game money, the fact that it is traded for IRL money should be considered before dismissing the drawbacks. The problem of boom and bust cycles is apparent in history, and could frustrate players if repeated to an exaggerated scale in MassiveCraft, particularly if a player had recently bought regals. It also reduces the value of savings. If a player were to leave a year or so ago with 5000 regals in savings, upon return he would find a great devaluation in his money. Finally, it can be a bit of pain, since shops require constant adjustment to counter dropping prices.

We do not want deflation, rather a moderately low rate of inflation would be preferable. Therefore, I feel that the economy should be monitored and, if possible, the amount paid towards LWC locks. This could be a consideration in refunds. I do rather like @Tokugawryuu 's idea. Finally, a few people complain that other people have less chests so have to spend less money, however, if one has more chests, one probably has more money.
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Adding more money is not going to harm the economy as players WILL spend it (most likely on new chests so its a moot point)
 
Party_Penguin27 said:
Adding more money is not going to harm the economy as players WILL spend it (most likely on new chests so its a moot point)
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Yes, of course we must add more money. However, there are already a number of ways for money to enter the economy. The point is whether the money leaves the economy at a similar rate to the rate it enters at, which is the desired system. My point of monitoring the economy is in relation to the amount of money entering and leaving the economy by means of LWC and overall, which would allow us to understand fully whether the LWC is acting as too great a money sink, or whether it is just fine.
 
Oxoman said:
We do not want deflation, rather a moderately low rate of inflation would be preferable.
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I completely agree on that. But we have deflation ATM.
The thing about deflation is that it makes regals the only good long term invest. Instead of people investing in things that will raise in price faster than the market.
 
Oxoman said:
Yes, of course we must add more money. However, there are already a number of ways for money to enter the economy. The point is whether the money leaves the economy at a similar rate to the rate it enters at, which is the desired system. My point of monitoring the economy is in relation to the amount of money entering and leaving the economy by means of LWC and overall, which would allow us to understand fully whether the LWC is acting as too great a money sink, or whether it is just fine.
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With people leaving the server, and productivity rates raising. We would need more money into the economy than out, just to avoid too much inflation.
 
@Madus
I certainly agree on the point of deflation being poor, although many of the effects of deflation are present regardless of the inflation level (in pertinence to the considerable lack of public spending), and if it is the case that the economy is in a state of deflation, well then we'd best fix that! I simply argued my perspective since a lot of persons seem to be of the belief that getting LWC refunds means 'moar monies,' and are willing to throw their weight behind whatever supporting economic theories they can find in a frenzied state of confirmational bias.
As long as the economy is in a verifiable state of deflation, I support the refund of LWC locks.
 
Oxoman said:
@Madus
I certainly agree on the point of deflation being poor, although many of the effects of deflation are present regardless of the inflation level (in pertinence to the considerable lack of public spending), and if it is the case that the economy is in a state of deflation, well then we'd best fix that! I simply argued my perspective since a lot of persons seem to be of the belief that getting LWC refunds means 'moar monies,' and are willing to throw their weight behind whatever supporting economic theories they can find in a frenzied state of confirmational bias.
As long as the economy is in a verifiable state of deflation, I support the refund of LWC locks.
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We need more inflation.
The lore items in the recent events are a good start.

As I have said before we need a rotating system for voting items rotate some out being some in as prices for even the rarest of those are dropping
 
Party_penguin27 said:
We need more inflation.
The lore items in the recent events are a good start.

As I have said before we need a rotating system for voting items rotate some out being some in as prices for even the rarest of those are dropping
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"We need more inflation."
Try and offer logical backing to such points when making them.
 
Oxoman said:
"We need more inflation."
Try and offer logical backing to such points when making them.
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Hmm Lets see.....
Prices are rapidly dropping
God Armour is loosing its value
Older lore items are becoming increasingly common
Prices for everything are lowering while rents and shops still stay at a pretty constant price.
So the economy has less money in it to a lot of players as a result further driving prices down
 
Deflation is good for the successful, inflation is good for the lazy. Deflation ftw. Why would I want dirty proles to be successful when I can roll in my fat cat cash bank? :P

FWIW, I support the idea of getting money back for unlocking just out of principle, as it incentivizes against griefing via forgotten chests.
 
Gilmania said:
Deflation is good for the successful, inflation is good for the lazy. Deflation ftw. Why would I want dirty proles to be successful when I can roll in my fat cat cash bank? :P

FWIW, I support the idea of getting money back for unlocking just out of principle, as it incentivizes against griefing via forgotten chests.
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How is inflation good for the lazy?
When deflation is a thing all you have to do to get richer is keeping your regals (because prices fall so my regals are worth more). So how does indlaftion help the lazy?
 
Party_Penguin27 said:
Hmm Lets see.....
Prices are rapidly dropping
God Armour is loosing its value
Older lore items are becoming increasingly common
Prices for everything are lowering while rents and shops still stay at a pretty constant price.
So the economy has less money in it to a lot of players as a result further driving prices down
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I'm quite confident that this is due to ever increasing supply rather than devaluating currency. Given that you understand supply and demand economic factors, you will understand that everyone is trying to sell God Armour, while not enough persons are buying, , leavingthe sellers forced to drive down their prices and be competitive. Eventually, this should reach an equilibrium as God Armour becomes less attractive to sellers and supply meets demand.
 
Just throwing an idea out there

Increase the cost slightly (like 2 regals) and give a small refund when a chest is removed (like 2-3 regals). This way it is still a money sink and people are encouraged to remove chests, even if they don't get all their money back.
 
Ok, so.. Here's the thing... Why not just give only yourself access to said chunk (or the player who is going to use that chunk). That way, there will be no locking of chests, or people leaving chests behind for mods to unlock. Furthermore, it saves you time and money, as you just have to input one simple command, rather than individually locking the chests they are in. This way, you can save your regals for something else. Like chests you can lock outside your faction maybe.
 
Tokugawryuu said:
Ok, so.. Here's the thing... Why not just give only yourself access to said chunk (or the player who is going to use that chunk). That way, there will be no locking of chests, or people leaving chests behind for mods to unlock. Furthermore, it saves you time and money, as you just have to input one simple command, rather than individually locking the chests they are in. This way, you can save your regals for something else. Like chests you can lock outside your faction maybe.
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Still no perfect security and it is still sorta akward
 
Party_Penguin27 said:
Still no perfect security and it is still sorta akward
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If only you have access, no one else can get in there. No one can break blocks or open the chests, or even use levers and buttons. Therefore, it's not that awkward. Solarian do it, Morthion used to do it. And I'm sure many, many more factions do it too. It's the cheapest, safest way to lock your chests. It's what I do, always
 
Tokugawryuu said:
If only you have access, no one else can get in there. No one can break blocks or open the chests, or even use levers and buttons. Therefore, it's not that awkward. Solarian do it, Morthion used to do it. And I'm sure many, many more factions do it too. It's the cheapest, safest way to lock your chests. It's what I do, always
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But I have acess to the chunk. However other members have acess too. Besides many smaller facs dont do that
 
Party_Penguin27 said:
But I have acess to the chunk. However other members have acess too. Besides many smaller facs dont do that
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Then remove the other people, and manage each player's storage efficiently. And as for smaller factions not doing it, a well structured,well organised small faction will turn into a good large one, while a disorganised one will not. For thereason that I stated earlier, about access as the such, I don't agree with a refund
 
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