Archived Change

[Joshy54100]

I apologize in advance for sounding whiny or complaining too much or in an unfair way

Some things I want to say:

1. If I remember correctly the staff did confirm that the majority of people who buy premium use it for its PvP advantages.
2. The staff need to take responsibility for glitches or bugs. I've seen quite a few staff just say to the player base "Find the bugs yourself" (paraphrased) That's a very hard task and as staff I think the responsibility should be theirs.
3. The staff need to start listening to the PvP community more often and making changes quickly. It just is aggravating to see my money only go to keeping the server up and giving me benefits, but not really to funding the development of fixing/creating features.

I know this is a very negative post, and I'm sorry about that. But the amount of things actually getting done is reaching the point of stagnation and I'm frustrated. Very rarely are new features added or bugs fixed (especially bugs, the staff have yet to comprehensively explain whether or not there are actually bugs, and then fixing the damage to a more reasonable amount if there are no bugs actually)

~ Signed, someone looking for the revival and increase of PvP on MassiveCraft to new heights

 

[BenRekt]

I respectfully agree with everything Joshy has stated in this post. I believe someone needed to say this, and I wouldn't have phrased this any differently.

 

[Lizmun]

Even though I don't pvp, I do agree with joshy, About fixing bugs and such

(Y)

 

[Jemsbe]

The staff need to take responsibility for glitches or bugs. I've seen quite a few staff just say to the player base "Find the bugs yourself" (paraphrased) That's a very hard task and as staff I think the responsibility should be theirs.

Click to shrink...

With this one here, Staff are off-times not aware what bugs exist as we are not always able to play the game as our players do, which is why we ask them to report any bugs they may find so that we have atleast some base to begin with fixing them. I'll be monitoring this thread closely for any flame. Remember to keep these suggestions appropriate and not all "Staff haven't fixed this".
Purpose well thought out ideas and we may be able to look at them in greater detail.

 

[Alj23]

According to this page (http://www.massivecraft.com/team), there are 13 staff with a lore ranking. A lot of manpower. Go take a look at the change log and see how much work is put into lore and RP per week.

There is one staff staff with a tech ranking, and that is Cayorion alone.

It's not a matter of them not wanting to fix the bugs, I'm sure they would love too. It's a matter of having the manpower to find and fix the bugs. And these bugs go way beyond traits. The bugs that are causing the servers to crash every day, prompting the 12 hour restarts? I can't say what causes them, and neither can you. They are more complicated than that.

 

[Alj23]

With this one here, Staff are off-times not aware what bugs exist as we are not always able to play the game as our players do, which is why we ask them to report any bugs they may find so that we have atleast some base to begin with fixing them. I'll be monitoring this thread closely for any flame. Remember to keep these suggestions appropriate and not all "Staff haven't fixed this".
Purpose well thought out ideas and we may be able to look at them in greater detail.

Click to shrink...

I worked with a bunch of active pvp'ers on finding tons of bugs. It was all compiled in a google document and presented to higher ranking staff. Is it advised to also make a bug report, so all staff can see it?

 

[Jemsbe]

I worked with a bunch of active pvp'ers on finding tons of bugs. It was all compiled in a google document and presented to higher ranking staff. Is it advised to also make a bug report, so all staff can see it?

Click to shrink...

This is probably preferred, I'm not even sure where this document is anymore

 

[YankeeGiant8013]

(better worded and Such)
I completely agree with Joshy. In my own opinion, it seems to me that some of the server's staff members do not show much favor towards the PvP community. If I can recall correctly, this server is supposed to be a mix of RP and PvP. I find it so hard to continue donating when instead of bug and glitch fixes, Regalia V3 is being built. Staff put in a good effort, but it feels like more of that effort needs to be put into PvP, which is dying and broken, rather than RP, which has plenty of support at the moment.

 

[Alj23]

This is probably preferred, I'm not even sure where this document is anymore

Click to shrink...

Submitted.

 

[Suzzie]

For any who have not seen the staff member list @Alj23 mentioned..:

Cayorion is our /only/ Tech staff member.
You can't expect him to run a server, develop and update plugins, and find and fix every bug without giving him lots of time.
Although I agree with you all the way, you can't expect it all to get done so fast. To do such a thing, you'd need more plugin developers, something we sorely lack.
I agree, some of the plugins can be pretty damn glitchy, but we'll just have to tough it out, until it's fixed, sadly.
​

 

[YankeeGiant8013]

For any who have not seen the staff member list @Alj23 mentioned..:
View attachment 47729
Cayorion is our /only/ Tech staff member.
You can't expect him to run a server, develop and update plugins, and find and fix every bug without giving him lots of time.
Although I agree with you all the way, you can't expect it all to get done so fast. To do such a thing, you'd need more plugin developers, something we sorely lack.
I agree, some of the plugins can be pretty damn glitchy, but we'll just have to tough it out, until it's fixed, sadly.
​

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i think we got the point

 

[Suzzie]

i think we got the point

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Meh.​

 

[BenRekt]

I appreciate that Cayorian works solo on coding, but many PvPers have been waiting over a month for a trait fix to be put in place, and I believe that many people who solely PvP have a warrant to be slightly frustrated at how long it has been since bugs / glitches with traits and McMMO were actually formally addressed (not even that they haven't been fixed / patched yet).

 

[Mecharic]

I find this thread to be funny because it implies that staff (Cayorion) doesn't spend time fixing this stuff. Considering that, as has been stated, most of the servers funding (and therefore Cayorion's income) comes from the PvP community I find it hard to believe that he would intentionally put fixing glitches that loads of PvPers are whining about on backburner. Cay's probably working his ass off trying to fix these glitches, and people complaining just wastes his time and staffs time because they have to respond to your complaints.

Lastly, if you want to make it take less time, become a coder and fix the glitches yourself! Then you don't need to wait on Cayorion.

 

[MonMarty]

Words are just words, they don't amount to no effect. It's obvious enough by now we cannot empoloy Cayorion everywhere and Cayorion is chiefly occupied with the server's core features, those that benefit everyone as opposed to roleplayers or pvp'ers or builders alone. The reason why the RP department is so large and gets so much stuff done is because people signed up to put words into actions.

The staff recruitment box is woefully empty of game or pvp related applications.

 

[Shayin]

With this one here, Staff are off-times not aware what bugs exist as we are not always able to play the game as our players do, which is why we ask them to report any bugs they may find so that we have atleast some base to begin with fixing them. I'll be monitoring this thread closely for any flame. Remember to keep these suggestions appropriate and not all "Staff haven't fixed this".
Purpose well thought out ideas and we may be able to look at them in greater detail.

Click to shrink...

To put this into simpler terms, since it is evident from the replies that the message was not clear, if you want to see change come, make the contribution yourself. Find bugs, make detailed reports about them, and submit them. We can't do anything if you don't make us aware of it. Cay is pretty god-like, but he simply cannot know every single bug or glitch in the system. He needs your help to do something. You get out of it what you put in, as the old saying goes, and this server is no exception.

 

[Alj23]

To put this into simpler terms, since it is evident from the replies that the message was not clear, if you want to see change come, make the contribution yourself. Find bugs, make detailed reports about them, and submit them. We can't do anything if you don't make us aware of it. Cay is pretty god-like, but he simply cannot know every single bug or glitch in the system. He needs your help to do something. You get out of it what you put in, as the old saying goes, and this server is no exception.

Click to shrink...

I'd just like to say one thing, and I'm not speaking against the staff, but I do sympathize with the people that are frustrated.

I myself, made a forum conversation with a good 15+ people who identify as pvp'ers, that pvp on MassiveCraft on a daily basis. After seven pages, we came out with a lot of good information and suggestions. I composed all of the bugs and suggested changes into a multitude of google documents, and presented them to higher ranking staff, including MonMarty, Gethelp, Thortuna, and Cayorion. I sent them these messages in early November, November 9th to be exact. Suggestions on what to change aside, mentions of a lot of bugs were made in early November, complete with videos as well. Upon Jamescl's suggestion, I also just made bug reports on the forums today, so more staff can look at the bugs and evidence included.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though, from my personal perspective and knowledge, that it is easier to change something or add something concerning Lore and the RP aspect of MassiveCraft, than it is to say, adjust traits or add new plugins. As earlier noted, there are 13 lore ranking staff. That's a lot of manpower to be able to get work done. If something needs to be done, I'd say that at any given time you have more than five lore staff to pull from that are willing to do the work.

The amount of staff available to say fix plugin glitches/bugs, add and create new plugins, and essentially work on the tech side of things, pales in comparison. There is Cayorion, and that is all. If five plugins are in que for him to code, ranging from RP related plugins to PVP related plugins, then we have to wait. If a lore article needs writing, or someone just wants to write some lore to expand upon to facilitate RP, than there's more than a handful of staff available. Simply put, the number of staff willing to do work related to bettering PVP does not fall in the PVP'ers favor.

if you want to see change come, make the contribution yourself. Find bugs, make detailed reports about them, and submit them.

Click to shrink...

The forums are setup much better to receive input from Roleplayers than it is PVPers. Roleplayers have one, two. three, four, ways to communicate their wants, suggestions, questions, and grievances. PVPers have one, two ways to attempt to do the same. I'm going to make a suggestion thread about some new sub sections in the MassiveCraft PVP section.

 

[Macroreptilia]

 

[budholly1936]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems as though, from my personal perspective and knowledge, that it is easier to change something or add something concerning Lore and the RP aspect of MassiveCraft, than it is to say, adjust traits or add new plugins. As earlier noted, there are 13 lore ranking staff. That's a lot of manpower to be able to get work done. If something needs to be done, I'd say that at any given time you have more than five lore staff to pull from that are willing to do the work.

The amount of staff available to say fix plugin glitches/bugs, add and create new plugins, and essentially work on the tech side of things, pales in comparison. There is Cayorion, and that is all. If five plugins are in que for him to code, ranging from RP related plugins to PVP related plugins, then we have to wait. If a lore article needs writing, or someone just wants to write some lore to expand upon to facilitate RP, than there's more than a handful of staff available. Simply put, the number of staff willing to do work related to bettering PVP does not fall in the PVP'ers favor.

The forums are setup much better to receive input from Roleplayers than it is PVPers. Roleplayers have one, two. three, four, ways to communicate their wants, suggestions, questions, and grievances. PVPers have one, two ways to attempt to do the same. I'm going to make a suggestion thread about some new sub sections in the MassiveCraft PVP section.

Click to shrink...

Lastly, if you want to make it take less time, become a coder and fix the glitches yourself! Then you don't need to wait on Cayorion.

Click to shrink...

I've gotta go with Mecharic on this.

 

[Wannag]

I've gotta go with Mecharic on this.

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Do you think that's easy? I'm sure the work Cayorion does is hard work, I promise you if it was easy there would probably be more people doing it. We all understand that Cay has lots to work on, and that he is trying his best to improve massivecraft in whatever ways he can, but It's been months that the community has been complaining about this, we have video evidence of the bugs existing and a forum conversation dedicated for finding new ones. The Original Post that Joshy made was stating his frustration over the fact that since the Entire PvP Community has been waiting for a long time for whatever is wrong with traits/mcmmo compatibility to be fixed, and like I stated earlier (If I did) I know that Cay has lots to work on, but coding isnt easy, and as it happens Cay is Massive's only coder and the PvP community wants to see improvements in our "department" on massivecraft. Yes, I know staff have been working on these damage bugs, but from our view we've been getting very little, if any updates on the situation making us feel as if the entire "fix PvP" project has been forgotten.

 

[BenRekt]

Words are just words, they don't amount to no effect. It's obvious enough by now we cannot empoloy Cayorion everywhere and Cayorion is chiefly occupied with the server's core features, those that benefit everyone as opposed to roleplayers or pvp'ers or builders alone. The reason why the RP department is so large and gets so much stuff done is because people signed up to put words into actions.

The staff recruitment box is woefully empty of game or pvp related applications.

Click to shrink...

Would it be possible to instead of coding a solution, to revert back to the working race system until traits / McMMO compatability bugs and glitches are fixed? Maybe even just remove traits and leave only McMMO if races is not updated for 1.8? Just an idea for a temporary solution to a major problem.

 

[budholly1936]

Do you think that's easy? I'm sure the work Cayorion does is hard work, I promise you if it was easy there would probably be more people doing it. We all understand that Cay has lots to work on, and that he is trying his best to improve massivecraft in whatever ways he can, but It's been months that the community has been complaining about this, we have video evidence of the bugs existing and a forum conversation dedicated for finding new ones. The Original Post that Joshy made was stating his frustration over the fact that since the Entire PvP Community has been waiting for a long time for whatever is wrong with traits/mcmmo compatibility to be fixed, and like I stated earlier (If I did) I know that Cay has lots to work on, but coding isnt easy, and as it happens Cay is Massive's only coder and the PvP community wants to see improvements in our "department" on massivecraft. Yes, I know staff have been working on these damage bugs, but from our view we've been getting very little, if any updates on the situation making us feel as if the entire "fix PvP" project has been forgotten.

Click to shrink...

First of all, I understand coding is hard. I also understand your frustration, when it does in fact seem like nothing is being done to deal with the multiple bugs.

Second of all, if you are so "Passionate" about making these changes why wouldn't you put a little work into it? To me it seems like you all are demanding these things, but aren't willing to put any work in to make it happen yourself. You seem to just think it should be handed to you on a silver platter.

 

[Mecharic]

Do you think that's easy? I'm sure the work Cayorion does is hard work, I promise you if it was easy there would probably be more people doing it. We all understand that Cay has lots to work on, and that he is trying his best to improve massivecraft in whatever ways he can, but It's been months that the community has been complaining about this, we have video evidence of the bugs existing and a forum conversation dedicated for finding new ones. The Original Post that Joshy made was stating his frustration over the fact that since the Entire PvP Community has been waiting for a long time for whatever is wrong with traits/mcmmo compatibility to be fixed, and like I stated earlier (If I did) I know that Cay has lots to work on, but coding isnt easy, and as it happens Cay is Massive's only coder and the PvP community wants to see improvements in our "department" on massivecraft. Yes, I know staff have been working on these damage bugs, but from our view we've been getting very little, if any updates on the situation making us feel as if the entire "fix PvP" project has been forgotten.

Click to shrink...

WAIT LONGER! For all you actually KNOW about the situation Cay's been working on it for months and hasn't fixed the issue yet because of how hard it is! For gods sake people, if you have the time to complain about it than you also have the time to find your own solutions or, hell, learn to f*cking code. God damnit people, stop being angry at Cayorion for doing the best he can!

 

[Alj23]

Second of all, if you are so "Passionate" about making these changes why wouldn't you put a little work into it? To me it seems like you all are demanding these things, but aren't willing to put any work in to make it happen yourself. You seem to just think it should be handed to you on a silver platter.

Click to shrink...

LOL

Beyond learning how to code ourselves, which would most likely take months upon months of work to even come near the level required for MassiveCraft, which by that time the issues might already be fixed, we've done all we can. We are passionate about pvp, and we've done everything we can as players to help get closer to resolving the issues. We've figured out some of the bugs. I myself made reports that include videos of the exact bug happening. We literally cannot be anymore passionate about helping fix the issues.

 

[Mecharic]

Would it be possible to instead of coding a solution, to revert back to the working race system until traits / McMMO compatability bugs and glitches are fixed? Maybe even just remove traits and leave only McMMO if races is not updated for 1.8? Just an idea for a temporary solution to a major problem.

Click to shrink...

(Or remove mcMMO and keep only traits)

 

[Alj23]

if you have the time to complain about it than you also have the time to find your own solutions or, hell, learn to f*cking code.

Click to shrink...

Easier said than done. I hope you're not honestly and truly proposing this as a quick fix solution. Because it isn't.

 

[Wannag]

(Or remove mcMMO and keep only traits)

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I'd rather other way around. People worked hard for mcmmo, griding for hours to get stats up.

@budholly1936 and Mecharic, Alj basically said what I was going to say, it would take months upon months to learn to code.

We've been patient, we've been waiting for a long time about this bug, and trust me that's the hard part, not as easy as it sounds. And I'm not mad at Cay, I know he has lots of work to do and he works hard to improve Massive. I'm just stating that It may be time (if it already hasn't begun) that this be given priority?

 

[Alj23]

Lastly, if you want to make it take less time, become a coder and fix the glitches yourself! Then you don't need to wait on Cayorion.

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Actually we would. MassiveTraits is closed source. I highly doubt that he would just hand out the source code for a closed source plugin to anyone. You'd first have to get staff, and prove to him you know what you are doing and have the ability to fix said issues.

 

[Yoloorange]

I'd rather other way around. People worked hard for mcmmo, griding for hours to get stats up.

@budholly1936 and Mecharic, Alj basically said what I was going to say, it would take months upon months to learn to code.

We've been patient, we've been waiting for a long time about this bug, and trust me that's the hard part, not as easy as it sounds. And I'm not mad at Cay, I know he has lots of work to do and he works hard to improve Massive. I'm just stating that It may be time (if it already hasn't begun) that this be given priority?

Click to shrink...

Squad Up

 

[Jackmo_Jones]

Is there no easy solution? Is it possible to put in place a damage cap? So no matter what goofy set of traits you have you won't be able to deal 5 hearts in one hit?

 

[Mecharic]

My point is only that PvPers need to be as patient as the rest of us when it comes to coding, unless you plan to become a coder yourself to speed the process.

 

[Magivore]

After reading a bit of this {please correct me if wrong}, it seems a lot like what is going on is sort of just a vicious cycle. Someone puts up a suggestion of change, it is answered that there is not enough men to do it... Then there is another suggestion of change, and once more answered not enough men can do it... I am sure at least one or two people of the RP community actually might know how to code. Although they might not specialize in PvP, one can take initiative to learn or figure their way in. The RP community is too large to not have at least one person capable, I can bet. I have occasionally heard of people OOC talking about learning of coding or specializing in it, but the issue is that I unfortunately do not know who they are, nor do I really have time to be able to learn coding myself. :/

My point is only that PvPers need to be as patient as the rest of us when it comes to coding, unless you plan to become a coder yourself to speed the process.

Click to shrink...

Roleplayers are often not as exposed to the glitches and bugs most PvP'rs are. Unfortunately, I find this statement not really a good one because months already have been spent waiting; we would be just as frustrated if professional RP entirely became halted due to a plothole or missing portion in lore.

 

[Alj23]

My point is only that PvPers need to be as patient as the rest of us when it comes to coding, unless you plan to become a coder yourself to speed the process.

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You keep using this "coding" argument. And it's funny because I looked into it at one point. I'm currently enrolled in a coding class in school that teaches in Java. Java is what MC is coded in. I attempted to learn the Bukkit API and code plugins. It's hard man. It's damn hard. I really wish you would stop using this argument, until you attempted it yourself. Do what you are suggesting. And if you already have, then you know the difficulty.

 

[kevencolis]

Words are just words, they don't amount to no effect. It's obvious enough by now we cannot empoloy Cayorion everywhere and Cayorion is chiefly occupied with the server's core features, those that benefit everyone as opposed to roleplayers or pvp'ers or builders alone. The reason why the RP department is so large and gets so much stuff done is because people signed up to put words into actions.

The staff recruitment box is woefully empty of game or pvp related applications.

Click to shrink...

When I applied to be game staff and put my pvp knowledge to work on the forum post back then it got rejected.

 

[Mattium_]

You keep using this "coding" argument. And it's funny because I looked into it at one point. I'm currently enrolled in a coding class in school that teaches in Java. Java is what MC is coded in. I attempted to learn the Bukkit API and code plugins. It's hard man. It's damn hard. I really wish you would stop using this argument, until you attempted it yourself. Do what you are suggesting. And if you already have, then you know the difficulty.

Click to shrink...

I think what he's basically stating is that he knows it's hard, but if people wish to complain about the lack of development within coding to do with this server, then they should look into coding themselves. I don't think he's suggesting it's not hard, man.

 

[Mecharic]

You keep using this "coding" argument. And it's funny because I looked into it at one point. I'm currently enrolled in a coding class in school that teaches in Java. Java is what MC is coded in. I attempted to learn the Bukkit API and code plugins. It's hard man. It's damn hard. I really wish you would stop using this argument, until you attempted it yourself. Do what you are suggesting. And if you already have, then you know the difficulty.

Click to shrink...

I took a coding class once. URG. That is all. But you basically remade the first point I had in this thread... namely, that Cayorion's working on it so be patient. The 2nd point was stop complaining and do something about it -_-

 

[MonMarty]

When I applied to be game staff and put my pvp knowledge to work on the forum post back then it got rejected.

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That may or may not have something to do with your mute/jail record.

 

[kevencolis]

That may or may not have something to do with your mute/jail record.

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I dont have a huge jail record. I got muted for the first time during the two years that ive been online last week. And same about my ban record im not proud of it but I saw some people being accepted even thoughh they have I believe a bigger jail record than I do.

 

[Madus]

When it comes to coding, it doesn't take that much time to code (talking from experience). But bug testing can take a whole lot of time, maybe only to fix minor subtle bugs (but some bug testing is always done). Therefore to increase development speed, everything might not be tested, but will shortly be found by users (not on MassiveCraft, just anything where they don't have the time) and can be fixed by the developer relatively fast.
But when these bugs don't get fixed after several months, it is understandable that people begin to complain (what is currently happening). Meanwhile there is put a lot of work into RP, which makes it look like they have higher priority. Even though it is because the manpower just can't be used in a PvP area.
But what also takes time is to design exactly what the code should do, which is much more time consuming than the actual implementation.
Another task for the Tech department is to find interesting third party plugins. Who'd doesn't require coding experience.
By moving some of this work away from the people who can code (Cayorion) and to other people who can do it, more time can be spent actually coding. (But it might interfer with Cayorions workflow idk)

But I think some people forgot that what the PvPers actually want is to get these bug fixing things higher up the priority list.
@Mecharic They know coding takes time, but they can still wish to get some priority lists changed a bit.

Also @Alj23 for the Bukkit API I will suggest you to use MassiveCore. You wouldn't belie me if Intold you how great it is.

 

[Madus]

When it comes to coding, it doesn't take that much time to code (talking from experience). But bug testing can take a whole lot of time, maybe only to fix minor subtle bugs (but some bug testing is always done). Therefore to increase development speed, everything might not be tested, but will shortly be found by users (not on MassiveCraft, just anything where they don't have the time) and can be fixed by the developer relatively fast.
But when these bugs don't get fixed after several months, it is understandable that people begin to complain (what is currently happening). Meanwhile there is put a lot of work into RP, which makes it look like they have higher priority. Even though it is because the manpower just can't be used in a PvP area.
But what also takes time is to design exactly what the code should do, which is much more time consuming than the actual implementation.
Another task for the Tech department is to find interesting third party plugins. Who'd doesn't require coding experience.
By moving some of this work away from the people who can code (Cayorion) and to other people who can do it, more time can be spent actually coding. (But it might interfer with Cayorions workflow idk)

But I think some people forgot that what the PvPers actually want is to get these bug fixing things higher up the priority list.
@Mecharic They know coding takes time, but they can still wish to get some priority lists changed a bit.

Also @Alj23 for the Bukkit API I will suggest you to use MassiveCore. You wouldn't belie me if Intold you how great it is.