Archived Bring Back Pacifist!

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I think that pacifist should be re-added, It was a key element in PvP so it should stay.
I don't even care what Mojang say, you should just give it to everyone because honestly there is no reason
for premium anymore.
 
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Even though I hate losing stuff and haven't been online since Friday, I think this sounds like a good thing, IMO the pvpers of massivecraft have been kind of spoiled by having the ability to stop hitting someone after getting a satisfying amount of loot and then just gobble potions until they get pacifist true and can die, keeping the loot.

I do understand that this can be a pain in the ass for people that go afk but... why the hell are you going afk in the open? If you know you'll be gone for a while just quit to the menu, reconnecting isn't that hard and you will still have your stuff.
 
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To the folks who focus on people going afk, I agree, afk people are their own problem. The issue I have is with people like me who are, say, building a nice set of houses in their well fortified city that, in roleplay, would have a small standing army in the form of the City Guard. PvPers will just come in, kill me, take my building supplies, and run away with the loot. It's not logical.

Think of it from a roleplay aspect, you're running from a bandit and you die. The bandit, at that point has access to everything on you!
Bandits do not attack cities. They attack small groups of travelers and the occasional village/hamlet. They cannot steal everything because EVERYTHING is too heavy, following logic, to run away while carrying.
This will also let people think a bit more before/during fighting. They won't take on people that they know they'd loose to.
Null point. People don't do that anyway because they lost items if they entered combat.
People would run to get pacifist then be okay with dying (Unless PvP score matters to you). I think now that a persons main goal is to survive instead of run for 30 seconds it will add more strategy to the game and seem a bit more real and ultimately more fun for some players.
It will not add to the game because a PvPer will not leave someone alone after a minute or so of running, they will just keep at them until the person dies. I expect an increase in combat logging.
This will also encourage people to make their cities and bases more secure.
Cities and bases cannot get much more secure since people cannot build domes over them. Until that happens, an enderpearl is all it takes to break into a massive city with a sturdy wall.

What is there to disagree with about this post? Honestly, people just rate disagree and don't bother to voice their own thoughts.

I believe I just explained everything that can be disagreed with in your post. And this is the 2nd time I've done it.

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Suggestion: Have pacifist true when in your faction's territory and having not been in combat for 120 seconds. No smart bandit would chase someone down for 2 minutes over whatever loot they have, and no sane bandit would attack a city or town that has a guard. As such, within roleplay, people wouldn't be attacked (and definitely not surprised) while in their own settlements.
 
In my opinion pacifist should be re-added but given to everyone. It was one of the driving factors to buy premium (aside from keeping the server open) I feel with the removal of pacifist the pvp community will die down in a sense and many of the servers best and well known pvpers will leave. If pacifist was given to all it would stop spawn campers (which is illegal already but people still do it) it would also prevent people from attacking defenseless factions as there would be nothing to gain from it. Pacifist was one of the best loved features of the server and a key factor in PvP and gave a unique playing style. I pvp actively and know pacifist can change whether you think your raid is over or not. One of the most common raid tactics was attack, use pots, attack, pacifist and so on. The introduction of the PvP flag will create an even larger gap between the rich and the poor as more people attack defenseless hamlets and towns knowing they can easily get loot. The gap between the rich and the poor will come from those who already have god armor and weapons attacking the defenseless and selling what they have in order to buy more things to attack the next hamlet and so on.

- Skip (An active PvPer)
 
I feel with the removal of pacifist the pvp community will die down in a sense and many of the servers best and well known pvpers will leave.
I've spoken to many of the PvP'ers on Teamspeak recently and not many are upset with this change from the PvP community. As a matter of fact I can assure you that 99% of the "best and well known PvP'ers" will not leave the server due to this change.
 
Bandits do not attack cities. They attack small groups of travelers and the occasional village/hamlet. They cannot steal everything because EVERYTHING is too heavy, following logic, to run away while carrying.

You're right, I made a mistake while typing that, bandits wouldnt attack a city, but how about an enemy kingdom?

Null point. People don't do that anyway because they lost items if they entered combat.

Trust me, I've entered battle with people I know could beat me because I knew if I wanted to, I could run away for 30 seconds and not loose my things.

It will not add to the game because a PvPer will not leave someone alone after a minute or so of running, they will just keep at them until the person dies. I expect an increase in combat logging.

Not all PvP'ers enjoy chasing, all it takes is a sneaky enderpearl or flywater to get away.

Cities and bases cannot get much more secure since people cannot build domes over them. Until that happens, an enderpearl is all it takes to break into a massive city with a sturdy wall.

I didn't mean make bases more secure like that :P I meant make sure no holes in the walls (I've seen them a lot) and that the buildings themselves are secure too.
 
@Wannag you have a point but some of the rising pvpers are upset with the removal of pacifist. And you cannot tell me you have never used pacifist in PvP.
You're right I have used pacifist in PvP to not loose my items, as have all pvp'ers. I understand and see why the pacifist was a problem though.
 
@Mecharic Apologies, I seem to have made it seem like you wrote all of that, when I tried to pick apart your post :/
 
Sounds like a great change for PvPers. Not so great for roleplay outside of Regalia. I was dissapointed to see pacifist removed. Taking it away removes a level of safety that was needed while taking the time to type and roleplay properly.

I suppose for those of us interested in survival play but not pvp it's back to carrying stone tools and keeping an empty inventory when not safely inside.
 
I think that pacifist kind of makes the survival game much too easy-- I'm downright awful at pvp, but, even as a non-prem, I've managed to thrive in the wilderness because I make decisions based on mild caution. You'll just have to be a bit more careful now, and if I can do it, then I'm sure pretty much all of you can handle this change~
 
For people bothering to whine about this (no offence). Pacifist was removed for a reason that none of staff could change. It was removed for EULA which basicly doesn't allow servers to charge for IG advantages such as pacifist. Which everyone already knows. Then why whine about something that can't be changed? As a premium i'm disappointed myself that it was removed. But it just can't be changed. Unless of course staff would concider adding it to everyone. Which would fix this endless arguing. :)
 
For people bothering to whine about this (no offence). Pacifist was removed for a reason that none of staff could change. It was removed for EULA which basicly doesn't allow servers to charge for IG advantages such as pacifist.

Whine is a harsh word. Things have changed and people have a right to express their opinions.

It could be changed easily. It could be enabled for everyone thus not vilolating the EULA.
 
Because in Regalia you totally go around pvping. Sure it could be more of a challenge in the survival world, but if you cannot handle yourself in the survival world, you should probably stick to Regalia.
This right here is a HUGE problem that I have with how the server is set up. Massivecraft is flagged as an RP server with PvP aspects, as it stands, the only place safe for RPers /is/ Regalia. I would LOVE for there to be a place where the server was set to PvE only so that RPers could survive without worrying about getting killed by hardcore PvPers. Sure, bandits were a thing in medieval ages, but there were places that bandits were NEVER seen, unlike on massive.
 
Yes, deflation.
The amount of items that gets lost will decrease a lot. Causing item inflation.
We lost the 750 regals a month (which is totally fine) which will cause deflation.
We shouldn't enable other features that can cause even more deflation.
Staff should think about what they do. The recent premium feature changes will cause deflation, and we have enough of that already.
 
This right here is a HUGE problem that I have with how the server is set up. Massivecraft is flagged as an RP server with PvP aspects, as it stands, the only place safe for RPers /is/ Regalia. I would LOVE for there to be a place where the server was set to PvE only so that RPers could survive without worrying about getting killed by hardcore PvPers. Sure, bandits were a thing in medieval ages, but there were places that bandits were NEVER seen, unlike on massive.
But, but, does factions get raided that often that everyone has to cry?
I does rarely get raided, just remember that your leader shouldn't have 2k+ regals, so the enemy think they can't get tribute.
EDIT: and of course some other things too. But just do a few things (can't give more tips) and raiding won't be a big problem.
 
But, but, does factions get raided that often that everyone has to cry?
I does rarely get raided, just remember that your leader shouldn't have 2k+ regals, so the enemy think they can't get tribute.
EDIT: and of course some other things too. But just do a few things (can't give more tips) and raiding won't be a big problem.
I never once mentioned that this problem had to do with the faction that I'm in specifically, it's a problem with the server itself, not any particular faction or factions. "Bandits" do not only attack factions, but people that are out gathering resources and adventuring. By allowing bandits to have free roam of the entirety of the areas outside of Regalia, they are essentially killing player's want and desire to travel.
 
I never once mentioned that this problem had to do with the faction that I'm in specifically, it's a problem with the server itself, not any particular faction or factions. "Bandits" do not only attack factions, but people that are out gathering resources and adventuring. By allowing bandits to have free roam of the entirety of the areas outside of Regalia, they are essentially killing player's want and desire to travel.
Sorry I didn't mean to say it to y specifically. But just to the crying people. I just don't understand all the problems, raiding isn't a too big problem if you just do a few things, like building a wall securing your portals, and giving people no reason to attack you.
 
giving people no reason to attack you.
As it stands, raiders don't NEED a reason to attack, you just have to be found. This becomes easier as your member base grows, they'll attack factions with a higher population because they can find them easily on the /f list. Then, it's just a matter of finding your faction on the dynmap. Also, they'll attack players that are geared to survive MOB attacks as opposed to player attacks because "oooohhh shiny diamond armor".
 
@Mecharic Apologies, I seem to have made it seem like you wrote all of that, when I tried to pick apart your post :/

My reply is in bold.

You're right, I made a mistake while typing that, bandits wouldnt attack a city, but how about an enemy kingdom?

They would attack people traveling on roads or through wilderness, maybe burn a farm or homestead down. They would never attack a fortified location, as bandits are by nature cowards who preform hit-and-run missions only.

Trust me, I've entered battle with people I know could beat me because I knew if I wanted to, I could run away for 30 seconds and not loose my things.

So what do you think of extending the limit to 120 seconds, or even 180 seconds? That way you can't run away forever - but you won't lose stuff if surprised.

Not all PvP'ers enjoy chasing, all it takes is a sneaky enderpearl or flywater to get away.

True, but all PvPers like loot. Also, someone who is roleplaying or building probably doesn't have an enderpearl sitting around their hotbar. It is the surprise attacks that concern me, not the people fighting one another freely.

I didn't mean make bases more secure like that :P I meant make sure no holes in the walls (I've seen them a lot) and that the buildings themselves are secure too.

No matter how many holes you fill in the fact of the matter is that a single enderpearl renders walls pointless. Short of a dome, someone needs to be underground or in a sealed room in order to be safe from idle raiders who pearl over a city wall in defiance of all logic. It's not roleplay accurate, and it just hurts the roleplayers.
 
Sorry I didn't mean to say it to y specifically. But just to the crying people. I just don't understand all the problems, raiding isn't a too big problem if you just do a few things, like building a wall securing your portals, and giving people no reason to attack you.

I'd like to deconstruct your post and point out all of the wrong in it. This may take a while.

"But just to the crying people. " - We are not crying, we are arguing the benefits of not dropping items when slain unless you attack someone. There is no crying about it, and to say otherwise is both misleading and incorrect, and takes away from your argument by alienating people against you.

"raiding isn't a too big problem if you just do a few things" - For a faction that doesn't PvP even a small raid can be disastrous. Small raids are the kind that end up doing the most damage because it takes a little while for people to realize that a raid is even happening, and by then large amounts of resources have been lost to the raiders, especially if they catch a faction building something.

"like building a wall securing your portals" - My city, Docktown, has a wall. It also has well secured portals, with the except of the trans-town portals which are free to use by anyone. That doesn't stop a single person, because enderpearls exist. They make walls redundant, meaning that only a dome (against the rules) or an underground city (-_-) can be safe from raiders.

" giving people no reason to attack you" - People don't often NEED a reason to raid, they just see 'oh, active people, kill kill kill keeeeeeelllll!'. You don't need a roleplay reason for raiding people, and larger factions that don't PvP are exceptionally vulnerable due to the lack of any real defense against such raids. It isn't fair and it damages large factions, preventing true cities from being able to form. Basically the opposite of reality, where size does matter.
 
Do you not feel that if they are a better PvP'er that they deserve your things instead of some cheap kid using health pots so he can run back to his base and hide? I like the change to be honest. It will encourage some new players to rise to the occasion in the pvp ranks.
What about if you've only just started, or they're using another aspect of the server. PVP is not the only thing you can do...
 
I'd like to deconstruct your post and point out all of the wrong in it. This may take a while.

"But just to the crying people. " - We are not crying, we are arguing the benefits of not dropping items when slain unless you attack someone. There is no crying about it, and to say otherwise is both misleading and incorrect, and takes away from your argument by alienating people against you.

"raiding isn't a too big problem if you just do a few things" - For a faction that doesn't PvP even a small raid can be disastrous. Small raids are the kind that end up doing the most damage because it takes a little while for people to realize that a raid is even happening, and by then large amounts of resources have been lost to the raiders, especially if they catch a faction building something.

"like building a wall securing your portals" - My city, Docktown, has a wall. It also has well secured portals, with the except of the trans-town portals which are free to use by anyone. That doesn't stop a single person, because enderpearls exist. They make walls redundant, meaning that only a dome (against the rules) or an underground city (-_-) can be safe from raiders.

" giving people no reason to attack you" - People don't often NEED a reason to raid, they just see 'oh, active people, kill kill kill keeeeeeelllll!'. You don't need a roleplay reason for raiding people, and larger factions that don't PvP are exceptionally vulnerable due to the lack of any real defense against such raids. It isn't fair and it damages large factions, preventing true cities from being able to form. Basically the opposite of reality, where size does matter.
I just gave a few tips. But moving factions leaders money to an alt stopped magnanimus from raiding Cissa (I wasn't leader back then). I can't give many tips, but here is one more. Traps find someone on planet minecraft or YouTube and use schematica, when it has been tested in sp.
 
I just gave a few tips. But moving factions leaders money to an alt stopped magnanimus from raiding Cissa (I wasn't leader back then). I can't give many tips, but here is one more. Traps find someone on planet minecraft or YouTube and use schematica, when it has been tested in sp.

Tehehe, I've always wanted to try trapping Docktown. Between the maze of buildings and the fact that every single house (with fence-windows) is secure from PvPers I think traps would basically finish the deal :P
 
Oh, god. I was not aware this was removed until now.
While I would prefer that this feature be available to everyone, I'm also okay with it being premium only. I really depend on this feature.
I really want this feature back because I (like many other people I know on this server) do not pvp. Why don't I pvp? Because this is a roleplay server. I mainly roleplay, and occasionally do so in my faction or work on building my faction land. And let me just say this now: "I have been on this server for nearly two years now, and have been raided many times. And I cannot recall a single one of those that was not a 'lol raid'. Every single time I am raided, there is no roleplay aspect and no reason." So before when someone decided to stroll up to my faction in that lovely god armor of theirs, and disrupt my roleplay/building by killing me and my faction members, I could tolerate it. My faction works up a system: If non-prems die, the premiums will pick up their stuff before they get killed. After everyone is dead, we would just roleplay in Regalia until they left. (We were being "lol raided", there was never a reason to fight). So, before it was incredibly irritating, but tolerable. But this? This will ruin so much. People are raiding more and more often, so how will I ever be able to put anything of decent value in my inventory?

Also, think about the new factions. If you ever created a faction, you know within 24 hours of creating the faction that you are raided over and over. It almost never ends. When I first created my faction, within 3 hours of typing /.f create, I was raided by 4 different factions. I was killed over and over, but I dealt with it because I got premium for the specific reason of keeping my stuff. Now, when you first start a faction and you're at your new land, you are probably building. That's a little difficult when you keep being killed, and impossible if you were killed holding most of your building supplies.

In conclusion, I have no idea why this was removed as it certainly makes impossible for those that don't pvp.
If this stays removed I will certainly not buy premium again, as I no longer have a reason to.


Rant Over.
 
I feel a lot of you are looking at it the wrong way. First off none of the good PvP'ers will be quitting due to this. If anything they will be raiding more. This will encourage more PvP, yes. Either you like it or you don't. But I don't think it should be given to everyone. If pacifist is given specifically to those in their faction territory there will be no more raids. Because their is nothing to earn. I don't see why it is a huge issue for Roleplayers aswell. In my faction right now we work extremely hard to balance our pvp and RolePlay. In our cities we will put taverns with doors that shut. 0_0. If you are suprised by this tactic or unaware of why we do it, it is because people outside of our faction can't open doors! So our Roleplayers are completelysafe. I am extremely excited for this change because "I love PvP" as I quoted before in this fourum post. People will adapt. Massive craft has made so many huge changes in the past two years, and people react the same way each time. Like shown above. Although, the main problem here for me is how many votes that "everyone should have pacifist" has. I don't want this mainly because there will be no point in raiding anymore. Even for the defending factions, if they hold off the raiders they will just run and then health potion until they get their pacifist and die. And their is nothing to be said about the non-premium members anymore. Because of the balances that have been made (which I love and am very excited about) there will be no "unfair fights". If you don't want to PvP you certaintly don't have to, massive has made that very easy. Long reply but hope some people see the light in this change.
 
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I feel a lot of you are looking at it the wrong way. First off none of the good PvP'ers will be quitting due to this. If anything try will be raiding more. This will encourage more PvP, yes. Either you like it or you don't. But I don't think it should be given to everyone. If pacifist is given specifically to those in their faction territory there will be no more raids. Because their is nothing to earn. I don't see why it is a huge issue for Roleplayers aswell. In my faction right now we work extremely hard to balance our pvp and RolePlay. In our cities we will put taverns with doors that shut. 0_0. If you are suprised by this tactic or unaware of why we do it, it is because people outside of our faction can't open doors! So our Roleplayers are completelysafe. I am extremely excited for this change because "I love PvP" as I quoted before in this fourum post. People will adapt. Massive craft has made so many huge changes in the past two years, and people react the same way each time. Like shown above. Although, the main problem here for me is how many votes that "everyone should have pacifist" has. I don't want this mainly because there will be no point in raiding anymore. Even for the defending factions, if they hold off the raiders they will just run and then health potion until they get their pacifist and die. And their is nothing to be said about the non-premium members anymore. Because of the balances that have been made (which I love and am very excited about) there will be no "unfair fights". If you don't want to PvP you certaintly don't have to, massive has made that very easy. Long reply but hope some people see the light in this change.
You act as though pacifist restricts you from gaining items while in combat. If those you are attacking aren't role-players or defenseless noobs who neither have expensive potions nor weapons in their inventory, they will fight you thus losing their pacifist.
 
You act as though pacifist restricts you from gaining items while in combat. If those you are attacking aren't role-players or defenseless noobs who neither have expensive potions nor weapons in their inventory, they will fight you thus losing their pacifist.
Very much so not true. Some, actually most of the average PvP'ers health potion until they get their pacifist so they can die without losing their items. I have seen this happen many times. Me and other faction members will corner a player and he will see that he is clearly outnumbered and has lost the fight will just potion, so we get absolutely nothing from beating him or her, fair in square. Being a great PvP'er is a lot more than knowing how to hit and wearing god armour, it also has to do with knowing how to seperate opponents and kill them off one by one (assuming your outnumbered like I pointed out above) and also being good at running. So in a sense it does restrict item gain from lower level fighters.
 
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Right, here are my thoughts. If everyone has pacifist, the entire economy would collapse. Those who do not want to PVP, would lose nothing from being raided. Surrender would become even more rare, people would not need to buy anything much either, as they can just keep whatever they have all the time.
 
Right, here are my thoughts. If everyone has pacifist, the entire economy would collapse. Those who do not want to PVP, would lose nothing from being raided. Surrender would become even more rare, people would not need to buy anything much either, as they can just keep whatever they have all the time.
I don't necessarily think it would collapse, as that is the system that we used for a suuuuuper long time, and it worked pretty okay I guess. But I disagree with the OP's sentiment still, I really don't think pacifist should be put back in.
 
I don't necessarily think it would collapse, as that is the system that we used for a suuuuuper long time, and it worked pretty okay I guess. But I disagree with the OP's sentiment still, I really don't think pacifist should be put back in.

But even non perms would have it. No one would lose anything if they don't want to, one god pick, hoe, and axe would be all a worker needed for life. The demand for most things would shoot down, and god armour is going to decrease in demand after a few weeks or so, as everyone keeps armour and has /fix.
 
This is a very annoying topic for me due to the fact that I see both sides clearly, yet I still am an advocate for seeing pacifist re-implemented in a better way. Pacifist as we knew it may work better if it's extended from 30 seconds to even 5 minutes possibly. At this point if running is your strategy you better be pretty good at it. Another solution would be to add some sort of afk sensor. I personally don't like this as peoples' definitions of the amount of time it takes to be afk is so different.

Now regardless to whether or not it's re-added the economy is going to change. As of right now non-premium can wear armor they may not have wanted to before for the risk of losing it all and many changes wil come along with this. If it was re-added I think the economy would change less as that's what premiums have had for what how long now? Either side of the spectrum someone has to budge a bit, but pacifist was and still is (unleast until we all get use to a new change) an essential part of how this server has run.
 
Later I will make a post about the situation of he economy. And the premium changes like this will be included. Because it affects the economy so much.
 
To the folks who focus on people going afk, I agree, afk people are their own problem. The issue I have is with people like me who are, say, building a nice set of houses in their well fortified city that, in roleplay, would have a small standing army in the form of the City Guard. PvPers will just come in, kill me, take my building supplies, and run away with the loot. It's not logical.


Bandits do not attack cities. They attack small groups of travelers and the occasional village/hamlet. They cannot steal everything because EVERYTHING is too heavy, following logic, to run away while carrying.

Null point. People don't do that anyway because they lost items if they entered combat.

It will not add to the game because a PvPer will not leave someone alone after a minute or so of running, they will just keep at them until the person dies. I expect an increase in combat logging.

Cities and bases cannot get much more secure since people cannot build domes over them. Until that happens, an enderpearl is all it takes to break into a massive city with a sturdy wall.



I believe I just explained everything that can be disagreed with in your post. And this is the 2nd time I've done it.

_________________________________________________________________________________________

Suggestion: Have pacifist true when in your faction's territory and having not been in combat for 120 seconds. No smart bandit would chase someone down for 2 minutes over whatever loot they have, and no sane bandit would attack a city or town that has a guard. As such, within roleplay, people wouldn't be attacked (and definitely not surprised) while in their own settlements.

Well the reason a single bandit can get past your city guard is one becouse of stupid enderpearls, and two becouse they keep armor on death which enables them to wear god armor and basicly be an immortal god.

I can say in all honesty that if pacifist is brought back I won't be staying on this server. I think the new changes is an improvement which will increase the sizes of the armies and add a real battle feeling.

I'd prefer if they removed the ability to keep armor on death aswell, now when premium is changed I can't really see a reason to keep it. You complain becouse pvpers kill rpers. Well, if they dropped their armor they woulden't wear god armor and be immortal. Now you would be able to fight back instead of letting one guy slaughter a entire kingdom which is totally out of place if u ask me.

A single guy shoulden't win over a army of 15! When is it time to realize that?

If you really just wanna keep hitting each other without doing any harm. I suggest fighting in a minigame or something were nothing matters. Becouse that's what happened with all this protective stuff, you fight without results. Wars won't end becouse you simply have no reason to surrender, they do you no harm anyway?