Archived An Idea To Help The Economy.

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FubeTheMangler

FubeTheMangler

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I want to propose that you lose your armor when you die with PvPflag activated so that godarmor will be a more desireable item in the economy.

I propose that god armor drops just like your inventory does when you die in PvP.

The reason for this is that the armor economy is getting slower and smaller all the time and the demand for strong armor is extremely small right now. This is because of two reasons, number one is that god armor never breaks, and number two is that you don't drop it upon death.

The result of this is that if you are careful you will never need more than one set of god armor per person, effectively making the market for it almost non-existent.

I think that this will improve the state of the economy.
 
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FubeTheMangler said:
I'm gonna do you a favor I'm gonna have a 6 hour stream when I get enought fgot gear and McMmo from scrath to prove my point.
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please just record it and place on youtube, i have /just/ enough trust in humanity to believe you won't fake this
 
What they are saying isn't bad. It's just that they have a different opinion on the topic at hand.

And I highly doubt you'd enjoy your idea the moment it got implemented Fube. After a good week or two of average fighting, less stocked members of factions WOULDN'T WANT to fight anymore.

If you thought PVP was stale before. Oh, hardly anyone would be fighting.
 
Alj23 said:
What they are saying isn't bad. It's just that they have a different opinion on the topic at hand.

And I highly doubt you'd enjoy your idea the moment it got implemented Fube. After a good week or two of average fighting, less stocked members of factions WOULDN'T WANT to fight anymore.

If you thought PVP was stale before. Oh, hardly anyone would be fighting.
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Or people would onderstand that they have to work like evryone else to get gear, ''start from the bottom''-Drake
 
I am honestly beginning to realize how spoiled people on Massive really are. If you think getting good stuff on this server is hard, then you should try a more hardcore singleplayer world or something and try then, it's a LOT harder...
 
Joshy54100 said:
u wot m8
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i-want-moooooooore.gif
 
krios41 said:
it's not, on world of warcraft i would farm for stuf, true, bet there i would fight stuf that is equal to my lvl here i can't do that, here it al depends on skil, traits, MCMMO and gear.
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And on Massive you can fight things that are below your level, you do not get strong traits, McMMo levels or gear by PvPing, it's the other way around, people enjoy PvP so they grind McMMo, figure out good traits and darkroom for gear.

Give me a new account and I could have it wearing all necessary PvP stats, full god armor, god weapons in just a week while not having to fight another player even once.

I know that the above example is an extreme, but I wanted to use it to make you realize that you can get everything needed for high level PvP (besides experience/skill, a big part of it) without even fighting anyone.

If you are not a great PvPer you might want to consider not attacking Magnanimus, Raptum and other strong factions with high stats and PvP experience, instead attack a weaker faction that is around your strength and learn from there.

I don't actually agree with the originial suggestion, I feel that it's too much of a jump to go from not dropping armor to dropping all of it, I feel that dropping one or two parts of your armor might be more reasonable. As mentioned, this might scare people away from PvPing, and while it may feel like those people are spoiled/cowards, it still affects you negatively in the end, as you will get less and less people to fight.



"yes everyone had to beging from scratch but i say you this, premiums that were on this server before teh EULA have stil an advantage over teh newer prem/nonprems because they could benefit from an doubl money/XP drop they could train faster.i know now this isn't like that anymore but teh after effects are stil there"
Even though PvPers keep saying this it doesn't seem to be clear to a lot of people, stats do not change you from a bad PvPer to a good one.

Right now I have almost 8x Fubes powerlevel, I beat him in every single stat by a huge margin, I have every single PvP stat maxed out, in a 1v1 I would still lose the fight at least 8 out of 10 times. Why would I lose that fight, even if we had the same weapons/potions/gear?

Well honestly, let's look at what benefits I get from my stats.

Axes, I get a longer skullsplitter, won't help me in that fight, I will get more armor breaking, but my axes are not high enough to break his armor 1v1 before he kills me, unarmed, I can disarm him, but that would just result in me taking less damage for about a second, swords, I could counter him, which is probably the biggest benefit that my stats will give me in a 1v1 along with acrobatics. I'm not even going to talk about archery, because an archer vs someone with an axe/sword in a 1v1 is such an easy fight I don't even have to argue for it.

TL;DR
Stats do not matter that much, if you have high acrobatics and 600+ in swords/axes you are pretty much good to go (750 swords or 850 axes to max out the necessary stats).
Importance in PvP goes as follows in my opinion
1. Gear
2. Skill
3. Potions
4. Stats

Can you honestly say that you lose that many fights because he had two more seconds of bleed, that it was the sole reason for your enemy beating you? Stats matter, but it won't turn someone mediocre good, it will make him a bit less mediocre.

Now, this thread is starting to derail, sorry for that, but let's try to keep it on topic.
 
Tuxyz is right. My faction leader has mediocre stats compared to mine but in a 1v1 with potions he will always beat me. I am so incredibly clumsy with using and switching out potions so if it comes down to me needing them I'm probably going to lose or at least have to retreat so I can refill my quick menu. Skill beats stats every time.
 
I was on a pvp faction with mcmmo, when you started you getted a 'god kit' an inventory filled with potions and god armor and a god sword. I fought this kid who had axes 630 or something, and in a 1v1 I wrecked him trough is bad use of potions, if people really use the excuse of your stats or traits are better. Than just work for it or just don't pvp the kiddo who killed you.
 
Tuxyz said:
-snip-
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i tried not to involve MCMMO in this coz it hadn't to do with this... otherwise feel free to tell me why it does.
because of that i won't continiou the discussion, feel free to start a conversation with me for that.
to go back on topic, this is just a terrible idea in my opinion but since it is already like this (again) for non prem i guess you can even go and lock this thing?
 
krios41 said:
i tried not to involve MCMMO in this coz it hadn't to do with this... otherwise feel free to tell me why it does.
because of that i won't continiou the discussion, feel free to start a conversation with me for that.
to go back on topic, this is just a terrible idea in my opinion but since it is already like this (again) for non prem i guess you can even go and lock this thing?
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It's still same disscusion, It's just you who get bad excuses.
 
Alj23 said:
What they are saying isn't bad. It's just that they have a different opinion on the topic at hand.

And I highly doubt you'd enjoy your idea the moment it got implemented Fube. After a good week or two of average fighting, less stocked members of factions WOULDN'T WANT to fight anymore.

If you thought PVP was stale before. Oh, hardly anyone would be fighting.
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Okay then Alj, give a other and better proposal then? :)
 
This idea is a really good idea (for me), I wish I could get the armor of the premiums I kill.
The way this idea was defended made me want to cry (it was horrible).

Side note: Too much flaming for this kind of stuff. People who post things for the economy are usually very excited about their ideas (please don't be disrespectful while beating it down).
 
krios41 said:
uhm no, wether we should drop armor on death or not has nothing to do with MCMMO, so MCMMO has nothing to do with this sugestion.
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It was you who said; to PvP you need stats armour, and that you have time to farm neither, so you did add it to this disscsion :P
 
FubeTheMangler said:
It was you who said; to PvP you need stats armour, and that you have time to farm neither, so you did add it to this disscsion :P
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i you forgot teh part where i said that you needed skils to. but excuse you? i NEVER said that some guy(i'm to lazy to look who it was) had to go and pick MCMMO out of al that and start a discussion about that.
 
krios41 said:
it's not, on world of warcraft i would farm for stuf, true, bet there i would fight stuf that is equal to my lvl here i can't do that, here it al depends on skil, traits, MCMMO and gear.
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krios41 said:
i you forgot teh part where i said that you needed skils to. but excuse you? i NEVER said that some guy(i'm to lazy to look who it was) had to go and pick MCMMO out of al that and start a discussion about that.
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That'd be me, but I discussed other things than McMMo in my post.
Anyways, sorry to have brought it up if you didn't want to discuss it, but I felt that it was a good time to educate people on how much stats matter in PvP.
 
For someone like me who has 40 sets of God Armor you'd think this'd be a good idea BUT I'm a greedy person and HATE to lose stuff. The biggest reason I don't PvP is because I don't like losing my weapons when I die (seriously, ask me for a duel with items returned and I'm all over that). Losing armor would just shut me down for PvP and I'd probably stop wearing armor at all.
 
Here's the thing, and the position that Mech is correctharic points out is a key point, people do not want to spend the money or armor, because it's a risk, and people do not have enough time to recover from any loss, or people are afraid of risks of losing.

What you say here is: "If people weren't lazy, they would have all the gear they need, they would sustain enough to drop said gear, or obtain said gear, and make the goods cycle, in a way that market would have more demand of said armor on the sector that does PvP/Hardcore PvP."

Things to point out: You aproach it with the PvP/hardcore comunity, and i know it is possible to make the amounts you established: It is possible to obtain a target of 10k + regals from pure farming, i know it is posssible. but will people actually do it?

No, people have lives, and even more at this season where people have gotten into shcool/work, also dark room farming can get stale and boring, also where they focus in building or any other activity that doesnt include any monetizing such as rp'ing or managing a faction in any administrative level: Officers and leaders. which are the ones that most likely have profit and wealth.

And if someone would want to PvP without fear of losing anything, then why not go to the minigame universe/another server that does PvP matches right away?

People would say: "Why lose this shiny new set i got when i can just go to the minigame and play Siege or Remus? I would prefer to save this set of armor when i am sure i can obtain something out of using this armor set." Meaning PvP is reduced until the person is confident, raids a weak faction and obtains profit.

"HardcorePvP Factions" Would be avoided even further, and the only factions to step up fighting said factions would be another high end hardcore PvP faction, which is unlikely since the changes that were done when EULA came out, the PvP comunity was affected and discouraged after seeing their levels on the same end as everyone else, what this did was that the "mediocre" PvPers simply didnt see much point on staying, and improving their skills on PvP, meaning less motivation to get better and archieve said level of competitiveness.

And what said Alj is pretty much what would happen, if i had a faction starving for god gear right next to me, i would just simply wall myself in, wait for the time limit on the raid, until they just go away, to me it seems that your aproach is more of: "I want to get people to run in so i obtain more profit." More than "The economy must be fixed, prices are too low." Simply by the fact that you quote things people say, more than: "What can I do to fix the economy?"

To be honest, this is NOT a matter of: People need to die more so they buy more armor.

But more something of: Increasing the ways of obtaining wealth in ways that farming mobs is NOT the only way, because, i know for a fact that people dont want to sit on a dark room, it gets stale and boring, and i know how much it can be because i make my regals through that, that sometimes i want to take a day from massive after doing a repetitive task.

Also i have been thinking on some sort of inflation, change of money rate of mobs, so that way things cost a bit more, while having access to wealth wouldnt be an herculoic task for your average minecraft player that logs a couple hours a week.

I wasn't here when the fishing was a gamebreaking thing, but i feel this economy was influenced by that event, it was nerfed, sure, but what happened to the damage that was done already? Having too much diamond stored down and floating arround the server was a factor that made the diamond cost as much as a mere regal worth, making every god gear in existance less valuable to begin with.

I feel that the economy has to be remodled, and i have seen some good threads about it, it's just a matter of putting those things together to stableize.

Edit: Also just as constructive criticism, saying that suggestions are bad to other people doesnt fix anything, if so, i would love that you develop more on what you say, more than saying that it is "bad"
 
FubeTheMangler said:
Okay then Alj, give a other and better proposal then? :)
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Sure. I just had to get home to my computer because typing on my phone isn't preferred...

Some background before the suggestions - The issue with the god armor market being almost non existent isn't because people don't drop armor. It's because people don't ever break armor. If armor was broken, it would take that armor, the diamonds, and the enchantments out of the game forever, therefore decreasing the overbearing supply we have of it, and when a majority of it is gone, the demand will come back. Having armor drop would just consolidate it into the hands of the power pvp'ers on the server, and before you know, smaller factions that don't have the time, members, and wealth to continue producing the armor will either quit PVP, quit the server, or just go do something else.

Now you could tie this in with the whole "stop complaining if you can't produce," "it should be easy enough for you to make one set per day at the least" arguments, but we would just have to come to the realization that some people want to enjoy pvp, so they spend the bit of money they have on sets of armor in the market or from trade chat, and then imagine how big of a turn off it would be if they lose the armor in the first fight just because they haven't yet achieved the level of skill the power pvp'ers have.

I'm not going to bring MCMMO into this, because it doesn't have much to do with the whole argument of dropping armor, aside from the fact that having a higher axe level helps break armor, if we were to make the changes to breaking armor a viable option.

Now on to the suggestions:
  1. Nerf or revert the changes made to the base durability of all armor. I vote for nerf, because as people train axes, having the configuration at default would make armor to easily breakable.
  2. Increase armor damage caused by axes. This is obviously my second choice, as not everyone puts Unbreaking III on their armor.
I personally like the idea of removing or nerfing a change we added. I feel that changing something we added in the first place is a better solution that changing something we don't need too.
 
Alj23 said:
Now on to the suggestions:
  1. Nerf or revert the changes made to the base durability of all armor. I vote for nerf, because as people train axes, having the configuration at default would make armor to easily breakable.
  2. Increase armor damage caused by axes. This is obviously my second choice, as not everyone puts Unbreaking III on their armor.
I personally like the idea of removing or nerfing a change we added. I feel that changing something we added in the first place is a better solution that changing something we don't need too.
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I would say the base durability armor should have a nerf, buffing the axes has it's concequencess, we have issues already regarding axes in terms of glitches, also making swords even less relevant since buffing axes would basically put a nail in the coffin on swords, also have you guys have considered the removal on it's entirety of /fix?, the next update has repairing on anvils buffed beyond expected, having /fix and vanilla anvil repair would be too much, reducing the value of god items a bit more.
 
Alj23 said:
Sure. I just had to get home to my computer because typing on my phone isn't preferred...

Some background before the suggestions - The issue with the god armor market being almost non existent isn't because people don't drop armor. It's because people don't ever break armor. If armor was broken, it would take that armor, the diamonds, and the enchantments out of the game forever, therefore decreasing the overbearing supply we have of it, and when a majority of it is gone, the demand will come back. Having armor drop would just consolidate it into the hands of the power pvp'ers on the server, and before you know, smaller factions that don't have the time, members, and wealth to continue producing the armor will either quit PVP, quit the server, or just go do something else.

Now you could tie this in with the whole "stop complaining if you can't produce," "it should be easy enough for you to make one set per day at the least" arguments, but we would just have to come to the realization that some people want to enjoy pvp, so they spend the bit of money they have on sets of armor in the market or from trade chat, and then imagine how big of a turn off it would be if they lose the armor in the first fight just because they haven't yet achieved the level of skill the power pvp'ers have.

I'm not going to bring MCMMO into this, because it doesn't have much to do with the whole argument of dropping armor, aside from the fact that having a higher axe level helps break armor, if we were to make the changes to breaking armor a viable option.

Now on to the suggestions:
  1. Nerf or revert the changes made to the base durability of all armor. I vote for nerf, because as people train axes, having the configuration at default would make armor to easily breakable.
  2. Increase armor damage caused by axes. This is obviously my second choice, as not everyone puts Unbreaking III on their armor.
I personally like the idea of removing or nerfing a change we added. I feel that changing something we added in the first place is a better solution that changing something we don't need too.
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Or another way is that their could be like a special % chance that when you die armour could break.
 
Alj23 said:
Now on to the suggestions:
  1. Nerf or revert the changes made to the base durability of all armor. I vote for nerf, because as people train axes, having the configuration at default would make armor to easily breakable.
  2. Increase armor damage caused by axes. This is obviously my second choice, as not everyone puts Unbreaking III on their armor.
I personally like the idea of removing or nerfing a change we added. I feel that changing something we added in the first place is a better solution that changing something we don't need too.
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@Sevrish will like it.

I'd rather have increased armor impact damage (x2?), because I like to fix my darkroom armor once a year. Although, I'm fine with it as it is now, since I don't need to bring 100500+ sets of armor.

And I don't care about economy.
 
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Not increasing armor damage, increasing the %chance to deal bonus armor damage. Currently there is only a 10% chance to deal bonus armor damage I think.
 
I like the idea of increase % chance of armor damage, or just increased armor damage. We need something to pull resources & supplies OUT of the economy before any prices will go up, not just move the items around.
 
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