- Joined
- Nov 16, 2013
- Messages
- 1,214
- Reaction score
- 2,177
- Points
- 0
- Faction
- SunKiss
- Kingdom
- The Holy SunKiss Empire
Now, straight off the bat, I'm going to say that Massive should not update to 1.9. Honestly, it really has very few changes that aren't either based around the End (which is disabled on Massive) or PvP, and as the vast majority of PvPers dislike the "Combat Update," it would make the most sense to remain on 1.8. However, I sincerely doubt that not upgrading will get any serious consideration from the staff, so I've gone ahead and made this thread, where I will highlight pretty much every change that 1.9 is making, explain what it does, and then give my opinion on how (if at all) it should be implemented on Massive. Most of my information will be coming from here: http://minecraft.gamepedia.com/1.9, or another source, which I will link when I use it.
Attack Speed: Disabled
The attack speed change is probably the most controversial and well-known change that 1.9 makes. Essentially, in 1.9, there is a "attack strength" mechanic. What this does is create a cooldown between each of your attacks. This can be modified using nbt tags or the like, however the default speed for a sword is a full-strength attack approximately every .63 seconds. (This may not sound like a very long time, but keep in mind that most PvPers click well over 10 times a second. I personally click around 12-13 clicks per second, and there are many others who can click well above this). This also affects tools, including axes, which have also been changed to do more damage, and have a chance to temporarily disable shields (more on that later). This essentially creates much less "skill" in PvP, makes PvP quite a bit slower (a full god fight can last upwards of 10 minutes currently), and essentially eliminates any sense of accuracy (which is very difficult to maintain while "jitter clicking," which is how PvPers achieve such high click speeds), and effectively makes the game much more ping reliant. This is due to the way that PvP pretty much becomes exchanging hits, rarely reaching combos above 2 or 3, which are essential to current PvP. This means that the person who hits first in each exchange will get the advantage, and as the first hit is highly based off of the player with higher ping, means that the player with the higher ping gains the advantage.
I could truly devote an entire post to just this topic, but for the sake of brevity I will end it here and elaborate as needed in the comments.
Dual Wielding: Enabled
In 1.9, there becomes an option to hold two items or weapons at once. There is, however, a quite essential limitation which keeps this from becoming overpowered: You are restricted to only using the left click action for the item in your left hand, and the same goes for your right hand. For example, this means that while you can hold both an axe and sword at the same time, you can only attack with the weapon in your left hand, as you must left click to attack, and left click only affects your left hand. This does, however, allow for actions such as holding a torch in one hand and a pickaxe in another, as the pickaxe requires the left click function and the torch the right. This can also be used for shields, which I'll cover later. One important function which is blocked (and I agree with) is blocking the ability to swing while drawing back a bow. If you have a bow in your non-dominant hand, and you begin drawing back, the other item you have selected will disappear and you will be unable to use it while your bow is being drawn back.
Sweep Attack: Disabled
This is a pretty simple change, which basically creates a non-mcmmo area-of-effect attack, although this attack is much weaker than skullsplit or serrated strikes. The sweep attack is enabled while not sprinting and hitting, and does a half heart of damage, along with knocking back any near-by entities with the force of 80% of a knockback 1 enchantment. I'm pretty much against this one just because we already have skullsplit and serrated strikes enabled, and so this isn't really needed.
New Enchants: Disabled
There's two new enchantments in 1.9, and frankly neither of them really belong on Massive. I'll go ahead and talk about the first one, frost walker, which turns water you walk on into ice, which well then melt back after a few seconds. I'm pretty much opposed to this one, because again, it's just not needed. It should also be noted that both of these new enchantments cannot be obtained through normal enchanting, but instead must be found in dungeons, mineshafts, or the like. This means that so long as the staff do not give out the enchantment or add another way to obtain it, it will remain disabled.
The second enchantment is mending, which I'm opposed to because it simply makes the game easier. Mending works by automatically converting xp you pick up into durability on any item with this enchantment, creating a way around the vanilla limit anvils put in place. Essentially, it would create more of the like that the /fix command has created, further inflating the god armor market. I personally think the server should be headed the opposite way, by reducing the supply of god armor in the economy, rather than making the supply larger and driving the god armor price further into the ground.
Spectral Arrows: Enabled
Spectral arrows add a new effect to the game: glowing. This creates an entity "shadow" which outlines entities, including players and mobs, and allows those players to be seen through walls and such. (Example here: http://bit.ly/20Kq8eQ). When hit with a "spectral arrow" you are hit with this effect. The arrows are crafted with 4 glowstone around the arrow, and since the glowing effect doesn't really do much of anything bad, there's no reason for them to be disabled.
Levitation Effect/Shulkers: Enabled
Shulkers are new mobs which were added as part of the End Expansion, which revamped the dragon fight and added a second part to the End, which includes cities and special forests (more on those later). They look like blocks, and hit players with rays which give them the new levitation effect, causing the player to rise several blocks in the air. (Picture of shulker: http://bit.ly/1Q6Rj1Y). So long as they are relatively infrequent, they could be added to MassiveMobs pretty safely, although they should be rather rare due to the pure annoying factor of being hit with levitation while trying to build/darkroom/pvp/whatever.
Elytra (Wings): Modified
Behind the attack indicator, this is probably the second most publicized addition of 1.9. Elytra work as gliders, slowly taking damage overtime as you use them to fly (Unbreaking can be added to them). The only issue with elytra, is that they're very, very fast. This means that if someone is able to get to a high spot (Such as the SunKiss Citadel or Deldrimor Tower), they can pretty much run from anyone with little chance of being caught. For this reason, I believe it should be 100% disabled in combat, regardless of being pacifist true or false. (Ie if you've been hit at all in x amount of time, it should not work). They are however, a ton of fun, and so there's no reason they can't be used for travel or just for the fun of it. It should be noted, however that:
In 1.9, as part of the new area in the End, there are forests of "chorus plants." On these plants, something called a "chorus fruit" grows. When eaten, these chorus fruit randomly teleport the player around, similar to the way endermen teleport. This means that not only will all bases become penetrable with enough luck, but if someone is being chased in PvP, they can simply eat a chorus fruit, shift, and suddenly their chaser has no idea where they've gone. Seem a bit overpowered? I agree.
Chorus Plants: Enabled
The plants themselves, however, I see nothing wrong with. They grow on endstone, and there drops can be used to create new building blocks, "purpur blocks," which are purple, and I don't really see any reason they should be disabled. If needed, a custom recipe could be added instead, and keep the plants disabled. The same goes for "end rods," which are a new light source, and require a cooked chorus fruit to create. Again, however, a different custom recipe could be added.
Grass Path: Enabled
This is another one that just doesn't have a reason to be disabled. It looks pretty good, and is created by right clicking a grass block with a shovel. Nothing much to it.
Beetroots: Enabled
Pretty much the same thing as the grass path above. They can be used to craft stew, which is edible, and otherwise act just like any other crop.
Dragon's Breath & Lingering Potions: Disabled
Dragons breath is obtained by right clicking a special attack of the ender dragon with a glass bottle, and can be used to create lingering potions. Lingering potions are potions with "linger," creating a small area where any player/mob will experience the effect of whichever potion is made into a lingering so long as they remain in this area. I believe these should be disabled just because they wouldn't do much but buff traps, which Massive has no need to do.
Shields: Enabled
Shields are crafted out of wood and iron, and can be put in the non-dominant hand to act as the sword blocking feature (which was removed). When right-clicking, you block with the shield, you take reduced damage and knockback. Additionally, you cannot attack while blocking. Using an axe, the shield can also be temporarily disabled, as there is a chance for an axe to disable the shield, which can be increased by sprinting and a few other things. They also completely nullify armor damage, should you be blocking and the arrow hits the shield. They're essentially a slightly different version of the old sword blocking, with slightly disabled mechanics (and block-hitting is disabled for real this time ;-( ), and so I don't really see anything overly unbalanced about them.
Tipped Arrows: Disabled
Tipped arrows are arrows which give the target their designated status effects when hit. This extends to all brewable potions (not sure how mcmmo potions would react), from blindness to speed to haste. They are crafted using the corresponding lingering potions, which I mentioned above. I believe they should be disabled for the simple reason that we already have traits to achieve this same thing, and while I still don't really care for traits, I do prefer them over the tipped arrow approach.
Protection/Sharpness: ???
Both the protection and sharpness enchantments have been nerfed. I don't really have a problem with the way protection 4 and sharpness 5 interact, so I don't think they should be changed, however I'm unaware if it's possible for these enchantments to be reverted to their 1.8 values. I do think that they should be highly tested before the server updates, rather than crossing our fingers and hoping they work out okay.
Blaze Powder for Brewing Stands: Enabled
In 1.9, it is now necessary to put blaze powder into the brewing stand (in a new slot), which is then used similar to coal in furnaces. One piece of blaze powder allows for 20 ingredients to be added and brewed, and I personally think that's pretty reasonable.
Armor Changes with Damage: Disabled
In 1.9, armor protection now decreases as the durability of armor goes down. I personally dislike this, because again, if Massive wants to implement something like this, they could do it with axe damage, or reducing the armor durability back to normal (All armor on Massive currently has 3 times the vanilla durability of diamond).
Boats: Enabled
Boats have finally been "fixed." Personally, I don't think they're really any better, but hey. They've been changed to have oars, be able to carry a passenger mob, and you now propel them by alternating between the a and d keys. It's kinda hard to explain, but all in all, I don't believe this can actually be changed back to 1.8, and there's not really anything really wrong with the new boats.
Golden Apples and "Gapples" (Enchanted Golden Apples): Enabled
Normal golden apples have been nerfed to giving regeneration 1, and enchanted golden apples now give regen 2 for 20 seconds and 8 full hearts of absorption. I dislike the normal gold apples being nerfed, however I do support the nerfing of enchanted golden apples, and now think they're more than safe to be enabled. However, the crafting recipe for enchanted golden apples has been removed, and so would have to get a custom crafting recipe.
Enderpearl Cooldown: Disabled
1.9 has now added its own enderpearl cooldown, however it much, much shorter than Massive's. I, and most PvPers, don't really have a problem with the current cooldown, and so I believe the current cooldown of 15 seconds should be kept.
So. That was a lot. It took me a couple hours to write, and so I did skip over a few smaller things which don't really relate to PvP or Massive in general, such as dragon heads, and new mob behaviors. If there's something I missed that pertains to Massive, feel free to remind me below.
@MonMarty @Sevak @BenRekt @morrc5 @DemonicDagger @Stonejrod @HeartAched @Shaneski101 @Genecide65 @spoonly @Alj23 @DarShauwn @Jackmo_Jones @Sinthe @Ziburinis @_Erebos_
Please, please, consult the player base before making any final decisions. We truly do care about Massive and where it's going, and don't want to see the server "go under" because of a loss in interest in pvp.
Additionally, just a reminder to keep the flame out. It has no use, and there's no reason staff need to go through and delete your comments. Please keep all posts completely on topic, and don't try to insult others because of their views on the update.
Attack Speed: Disabled
The attack speed change is probably the most controversial and well-known change that 1.9 makes. Essentially, in 1.9, there is a "attack strength" mechanic. What this does is create a cooldown between each of your attacks. This can be modified using nbt tags or the like, however the default speed for a sword is a full-strength attack approximately every .63 seconds. (This may not sound like a very long time, but keep in mind that most PvPers click well over 10 times a second. I personally click around 12-13 clicks per second, and there are many others who can click well above this). This also affects tools, including axes, which have also been changed to do more damage, and have a chance to temporarily disable shields (more on that later). This essentially creates much less "skill" in PvP, makes PvP quite a bit slower (a full god fight can last upwards of 10 minutes currently), and essentially eliminates any sense of accuracy (which is very difficult to maintain while "jitter clicking," which is how PvPers achieve such high click speeds), and effectively makes the game much more ping reliant. This is due to the way that PvP pretty much becomes exchanging hits, rarely reaching combos above 2 or 3, which are essential to current PvP. This means that the person who hits first in each exchange will get the advantage, and as the first hit is highly based off of the player with higher ping, means that the player with the higher ping gains the advantage.
I could truly devote an entire post to just this topic, but for the sake of brevity I will end it here and elaborate as needed in the comments.
Dual Wielding: Enabled
In 1.9, there becomes an option to hold two items or weapons at once. There is, however, a quite essential limitation which keeps this from becoming overpowered: You are restricted to only using the left click action for the item in your left hand, and the same goes for your right hand. For example, this means that while you can hold both an axe and sword at the same time, you can only attack with the weapon in your left hand, as you must left click to attack, and left click only affects your left hand. This does, however, allow for actions such as holding a torch in one hand and a pickaxe in another, as the pickaxe requires the left click function and the torch the right. This can also be used for shields, which I'll cover later. One important function which is blocked (and I agree with) is blocking the ability to swing while drawing back a bow. If you have a bow in your non-dominant hand, and you begin drawing back, the other item you have selected will disappear and you will be unable to use it while your bow is being drawn back.
Sweep Attack: Disabled
This is a pretty simple change, which basically creates a non-mcmmo area-of-effect attack, although this attack is much weaker than skullsplit or serrated strikes. The sweep attack is enabled while not sprinting and hitting, and does a half heart of damage, along with knocking back any near-by entities with the force of 80% of a knockback 1 enchantment. I'm pretty much against this one just because we already have skullsplit and serrated strikes enabled, and so this isn't really needed.
New Enchants: Disabled
There's two new enchantments in 1.9, and frankly neither of them really belong on Massive. I'll go ahead and talk about the first one, frost walker, which turns water you walk on into ice, which well then melt back after a few seconds. I'm pretty much opposed to this one, because again, it's just not needed. It should also be noted that both of these new enchantments cannot be obtained through normal enchanting, but instead must be found in dungeons, mineshafts, or the like. This means that so long as the staff do not give out the enchantment or add another way to obtain it, it will remain disabled.
The second enchantment is mending, which I'm opposed to because it simply makes the game easier. Mending works by automatically converting xp you pick up into durability on any item with this enchantment, creating a way around the vanilla limit anvils put in place. Essentially, it would create more of the like that the /fix command has created, further inflating the god armor market. I personally think the server should be headed the opposite way, by reducing the supply of god armor in the economy, rather than making the supply larger and driving the god armor price further into the ground.
Spectral Arrows: Enabled
Spectral arrows add a new effect to the game: glowing. This creates an entity "shadow" which outlines entities, including players and mobs, and allows those players to be seen through walls and such. (Example here: http://bit.ly/20Kq8eQ). When hit with a "spectral arrow" you are hit with this effect. The arrows are crafted with 4 glowstone around the arrow, and since the glowing effect doesn't really do much of anything bad, there's no reason for them to be disabled.
Levitation Effect/Shulkers: Enabled
Shulkers are new mobs which were added as part of the End Expansion, which revamped the dragon fight and added a second part to the End, which includes cities and special forests (more on those later). They look like blocks, and hit players with rays which give them the new levitation effect, causing the player to rise several blocks in the air. (Picture of shulker: http://bit.ly/1Q6Rj1Y). So long as they are relatively infrequent, they could be added to MassiveMobs pretty safely, although they should be rather rare due to the pure annoying factor of being hit with levitation while trying to build/darkroom/pvp/whatever.
Elytra (Wings): Modified
Behind the attack indicator, this is probably the second most publicized addition of 1.9. Elytra work as gliders, slowly taking damage overtime as you use them to fly (Unbreaking can be added to them). The only issue with elytra, is that they're very, very fast. This means that if someone is able to get to a high spot (Such as the SunKiss Citadel or Deldrimor Tower), they can pretty much run from anyone with little chance of being caught. For this reason, I believe it should be 100% disabled in combat, regardless of being pacifist true or false. (Ie if you've been hit at all in x amount of time, it should not work). They are however, a ton of fun, and so there's no reason they can't be used for travel or just for the fun of it. It should be noted, however that:
- There is currently no crafting recipe (they're found in the end cities I mentioned above), and so a custom recipe would have to be implemented.
- They replace your chest piece, meaning you have to make off your chest piece to fly.
In 1.9, as part of the new area in the End, there are forests of "chorus plants." On these plants, something called a "chorus fruit" grows. When eaten, these chorus fruit randomly teleport the player around, similar to the way endermen teleport. This means that not only will all bases become penetrable with enough luck, but if someone is being chased in PvP, they can simply eat a chorus fruit, shift, and suddenly their chaser has no idea where they've gone. Seem a bit overpowered? I agree.
Chorus Plants: Enabled
The plants themselves, however, I see nothing wrong with. They grow on endstone, and there drops can be used to create new building blocks, "purpur blocks," which are purple, and I don't really see any reason they should be disabled. If needed, a custom recipe could be added instead, and keep the plants disabled. The same goes for "end rods," which are a new light source, and require a cooked chorus fruit to create. Again, however, a different custom recipe could be added.
Grass Path: Enabled
This is another one that just doesn't have a reason to be disabled. It looks pretty good, and is created by right clicking a grass block with a shovel. Nothing much to it.
Beetroots: Enabled
Pretty much the same thing as the grass path above. They can be used to craft stew, which is edible, and otherwise act just like any other crop.
Dragon's Breath & Lingering Potions: Disabled
Dragons breath is obtained by right clicking a special attack of the ender dragon with a glass bottle, and can be used to create lingering potions. Lingering potions are potions with "linger," creating a small area where any player/mob will experience the effect of whichever potion is made into a lingering so long as they remain in this area. I believe these should be disabled just because they wouldn't do much but buff traps, which Massive has no need to do.
Shields: Enabled
Shields are crafted out of wood and iron, and can be put in the non-dominant hand to act as the sword blocking feature (which was removed). When right-clicking, you block with the shield, you take reduced damage and knockback. Additionally, you cannot attack while blocking. Using an axe, the shield can also be temporarily disabled, as there is a chance for an axe to disable the shield, which can be increased by sprinting and a few other things. They also completely nullify armor damage, should you be blocking and the arrow hits the shield. They're essentially a slightly different version of the old sword blocking, with slightly disabled mechanics (and block-hitting is disabled for real this time ;-( ), and so I don't really see anything overly unbalanced about them.
Tipped Arrows: Disabled
Tipped arrows are arrows which give the target their designated status effects when hit. This extends to all brewable potions (not sure how mcmmo potions would react), from blindness to speed to haste. They are crafted using the corresponding lingering potions, which I mentioned above. I believe they should be disabled for the simple reason that we already have traits to achieve this same thing, and while I still don't really care for traits, I do prefer them over the tipped arrow approach.
Protection/Sharpness: ???
Both the protection and sharpness enchantments have been nerfed. I don't really have a problem with the way protection 4 and sharpness 5 interact, so I don't think they should be changed, however I'm unaware if it's possible for these enchantments to be reverted to their 1.8 values. I do think that they should be highly tested before the server updates, rather than crossing our fingers and hoping they work out okay.
Blaze Powder for Brewing Stands: Enabled
In 1.9, it is now necessary to put blaze powder into the brewing stand (in a new slot), which is then used similar to coal in furnaces. One piece of blaze powder allows for 20 ingredients to be added and brewed, and I personally think that's pretty reasonable.
Armor Changes with Damage: Disabled
In 1.9, armor protection now decreases as the durability of armor goes down. I personally dislike this, because again, if Massive wants to implement something like this, they could do it with axe damage, or reducing the armor durability back to normal (All armor on Massive currently has 3 times the vanilla durability of diamond).
Boats: Enabled
Boats have finally been "fixed." Personally, I don't think they're really any better, but hey. They've been changed to have oars, be able to carry a passenger mob, and you now propel them by alternating between the a and d keys. It's kinda hard to explain, but all in all, I don't believe this can actually be changed back to 1.8, and there's not really anything really wrong with the new boats.
Golden Apples and "Gapples" (Enchanted Golden Apples): Enabled
Normal golden apples have been nerfed to giving regeneration 1, and enchanted golden apples now give regen 2 for 20 seconds and 8 full hearts of absorption. I dislike the normal gold apples being nerfed, however I do support the nerfing of enchanted golden apples, and now think they're more than safe to be enabled. However, the crafting recipe for enchanted golden apples has been removed, and so would have to get a custom crafting recipe.
Enderpearl Cooldown: Disabled
1.9 has now added its own enderpearl cooldown, however it much, much shorter than Massive's. I, and most PvPers, don't really have a problem with the current cooldown, and so I believe the current cooldown of 15 seconds should be kept.
So. That was a lot. It took me a couple hours to write, and so I did skip over a few smaller things which don't really relate to PvP or Massive in general, such as dragon heads, and new mob behaviors. If there's something I missed that pertains to Massive, feel free to remind me below
. @MonMarty @Sevak @BenRekt @morrc5 @DemonicDagger @Stonejrod @HeartAched @Shaneski101 @Genecide65 @spoonly @Alj23 @DarShauwn @Jackmo_Jones @Sinthe @Ziburinis @_Erebos_
Please, please, consult the player base before making any final decisions. We truly do care about Massive and where it's going, and don't want to see the server "go under" because of a loss in interest in pvp.
Additionally, just a reminder to keep the flame out. It has no use, and there's no reason staff need to go through and delete your comments. Please keep all posts completely on topic, and don't try to insult others because of their views on the update.
