Archived We Need Change.

[eman1000]

It's time for change.

Massivecraft grows larger and stronger each day. Unique plugins developed by Cayorian facilitate a Minecraft experience unlike any other.

In my experience with large servers like Massivecraft, there seems to be a common theme: replacing vanilla mechanisms with their own uniquely developed mechanisms.

We have already done quite a bit of this, but I believe PVP stands out as an area in need of a MassiveMakeover.

Here are some suggestions to get the conversation started:


What should be removed:

- MCMMO PVP aspects
- MCMMO potions
- PVP potions in general
- Vanilla health/damage mechanisms
- Vanilla mob health/damage mechanisms
- Vanilla mobs
- Weapon/armor enchanting
- Vampire weakness to wood
- Some aspects of traits
- Allowing all weapons to be used with all armor types
- /fix command
- Much more

Here is what I think should be added:

- Custom health depending on armor type
- "classes" that can only use certain armor/weapons (ex. Archer can only wear leather/chainmail)
- balanced defense and durability from all armor types (No, this doesn't mean that leather should be as strong/protective as diamond, but it should offer decent protection and not break after one fight)
- Weapons are only effective when their specific armor requirements are met (ex. Bow deals +50% damage per piece of leather armor, +25% per piece of chain, and -50% per piece of diamond)
- Armor types offer automatic boosts/nerfs (ex. Diamond causes slowness I and adds 20 hearts, leather causes speed I and +50% damage from fire, etc)
- Truly unique one-time-use enchantments as rewards from PVE events (ex. Life steal, etc)
- Encouraging use of MCMMO repair by removing /fix
- Bring back MassiveMobs
- Silver ingots/weapons with increased damage against vampires
- Unique secret potions that can only be brewed after finding a (complex and expensive) recipe (ex. Hour-long speed/fire resistance)
- Much more


This is by no means an exhaustive list, nor a list that I think should be followed exactly. It's simply a way for me to convey this message:

PVP could be so much more than a painstakingly calculated statistical combination of armor, weapons, MCMMO, traits, and potions employed in order to "win". It's discouraging towards new players who cannot afford the necessary materials to last even a moment in battle. It's completely cut off from the RP side of Massivecraft. And there's nothing glorious about a bunch of people running around in the same armor using the same weapons every single day. Allowing players to choose a style that fits them (such as in Skyrim) will create a much more interesting, personalized, and fun PVP experience for everyone.

No, this won't be easy, but is it worth it?

 

[eman1000]

Staff: if my title is too vague, please change it to "PVP Needs to Change."

Thank you!

 

[schmemeking]

- Silver ingots/weapons with increased damage against vampires

Click to shrink...

I'd like to point out that wooden weapons already have this effect.

 

[Lizmun]

Nope

 

[BadladBarbas]

I got your change right here!


No, but really. I don't think there'll ever be a change in PVP. Why? Because... war. War never changes.

 

[Billy_Rage]

I say do not touch PVP until 1.9, talk about change after the comber update.

And @eman1000 you can change the title yourself in thread tools.

 

[Kidmodo]

I think this post has some "eh" parts to it but for the most part I as a pvper would hate this. Mostly when you said to remove all pvp potions, since that is part of the skill base that seperates the bad from the good and the good from the great. And a few more things but I will write them up once I get back to my house.

 

[65jes89]

Tbh, I think there's a couple nice things, but I'm going to go ahead and say that if potions or mcmmo are removed I would most likely immediately leave the server. Pvpers on massive work hard for our stats, and removing them would piss a lot of people off. Additionally, they're really not as unbalanced as many people believe them to be. Sure, they help, but in the end if a paper is truely better, they will most likely win.

As for removing potions, yea no. There are several types of pvp, including soup, potions, gapples, and none of the above. The majority of Pvpers on massive are pot Pvpers, and in my opinion, potion pvp is the most skill based.

Tl;dr Massive needs to change pvp, but this is the wrong way to do so.

 

[spectec]

It's time for change.

Massivecraft grows larger and stronger each day. Unique plugins developed by Cayorian facilitate a Minecraft experience unlike any other.

In my experience with large servers like Massivecraft, there seems to be a common theme: replacing vanilla mechanisms with their own uniquely developed mechanisms.

We have already done quite a bit of this, but I believe PVP stands out as an area in need of a MassiveMakeover.

Here are some suggestions to get the conversation started:


What should be removed:

- MCMMO PVP aspects
- MCMMO potions
- PVP potions in general
- Vanilla health/damage mechanisms
- Vanilla mob health/damage mechanisms
- Vanilla mobs
- Weapon/armor enchanting
- Vampire weakness to wood
- Some aspects of traits
- Allowing all weapons to be used with all armor types
- /fix command
- Much more

Here is what I think should be added:

- Custom health depending on armor type
- "classes" that can only use certain armor/weapons (ex. Archer can only wear leather/chainmail)
- balanced defense and durability from all armor types (No, this doesn't mean that leather should be as strong/protective as diamond, but it should offer decent protection and not break after one fight)
- Weapons are only effective when their specific armor requirements are met (ex. Bow deals +50% damage per piece of leather armor, +25% per piece of chain, and -50% per piece of diamond)
- Armor types offer automatic boosts/nerfs (ex. Diamond causes slowness I and adds 20 hearts, leather causes speed I and +50% damage from fire, etc)
- Truly unique one-time-use enchantments as rewards from PVE events (ex. Life steal, etc)
- Encouraging use of MCMMO repair by removing /fix
- Bring back MassiveMobs
- Silver ingots/weapons with increased damage against vampires
- Unique secret potions that can only be brewed after finding a (complex and expensive) recipe (ex. Hour-long speed/fire resistance)
- Much more


This is by no means an exhaustive list, nor a list that I think should be followed exactly. It's simply a way for me to convey this message:

PVP could be so much more than a painstakingly calculated statistical combination of armor, weapons, MCMMO, traits, and potions employed in order to "win". It's discouraging towards new players who cannot afford the necessary materials to last even a moment in battle. It's completely cut off from the RP side of Massivecraft. And there's nothing glorious about a bunch of people running around in the same armor using the same weapons every single day. Allowing players to choose a style that fits them (such as in Skyrim) will create a much more interesting, personalized, and fun PVP experience for everyone.

No, this won't be easy, but is it worth it?

Click to shrink...

Your post can be summarized as a complete overhaul of PvP. It's also something that you as an individual would enjoy, but not everyone; like you are implying. I'd like to primarily point out two things that you suggested.

1. Removing mcMMO PvP aspects reduces variety and complexity in survival PvP. Additionally, I consider mcMMO potions as a PvP aspect. I enjoyed leveling and learning to incorporate each different mcMMO aspect into PvP, and I'm sure many others do as well. If this wasn't the case, it would have been much more clear to us by now.
2. Removing PvP potions in general would completely remove a majority of what makes PvP so enjoyable and challenging for people that actually PvP.

You're asking for a complete overhaul of PvP on MassiveCraft. You're asking for the removal of things that people have spent hours trying to achieve and level. I can guarantee to anyone reading this, that I have no intention of wasting the time of our players. A good way to lose interest and players is to completely change a game. I would agree that there is balancing to be done with PvP, but for the most part... lag is the biggest problem. Not the mechanics.

 

[Alj23]

We have a PVP style that works. No reason to completely remove it and start over. Just fine tune it through extensive play testing and balancing, which I can assure you the Squire & PVP staff do on a weekly basis. All your points you listed appeared to be opinions as well, and lacked factual evidence of why these changes would benefit us. Facts, evidence, and information make for better decisions.

Someone mentioned the possible Minecraft 1.9 combat update. I encourage you to hold off on any large scale suggestions until we either extensively play test what might change with 1.9, or we get a more solid update on when the update might come. Every update that effects PVP we take into heavy consideration when balancing, changing, adding or removing features. A lot of planning goes into creating a balanced PVP environment for the server.

I do thank you for your suggestions though, and encourage you in the future to make suggestions that are more fact based that we can check and work off of. Come to us with facts already collected and displayed in a comprehensive way to read, and you'll see much more success, or at least better structured criticism.

Sincerely,
Alj23
Squire Staff member.

 

[Lord_Aza]

Classes? Uh, no. There's always the "OP" class, weapon or whatever, and after people have discovered it, nobody will use anything else.
For example, 90% of the PvPers in Massive use an axe, because using swords or unarmed simply isn't worth it.

 

[Gabauchi]

Quite honestly, roleplays and PvP mix like oil and water. The only way you could really get a serious role player to PvP would be to use the system we saw in the 'April fools' update

 

[Mecharic]

To be quite frank, PvP as it stands is broken only in that it takes a god-awful amount of effort to even last more than a few seconds against hardcore PvPers. For folks who consider this a game (which it is) PvPing is kinda like gambling: you're going to lose most of the time and even victory is another defeat.

On that note, I do not know how to fix this. I'll leave that up to people who live & breath PvP, rather than me who just fools around.

 

[InktoberGlow]

They just released kitpvp with kits for classes that come with customising traits to be said class for different pvp outcomes! Why beg for them to change that when it is already new?? I suggest trying the steak before adding the BBQ; try out the kitpvp before asking for something similar to be made/added. k?

 

[Lord_Aza]

They just released kitpvp with kits for classes that come with customising traits to be said class for different pvp outcomes! Why beg for them to change that when it is already new?? I suggest trying the steak before adding the BBQ; try out the kitpvp before asking for something similar to be made/added. k?

Click to shrink...

Nobody was complaining about KitPvP. This thread is about PvP in the survival worlds.

 

[Knyxo]

It's discouraging towards new players who cannot afford the necessary materials to last even a moment in battle. It's completely cut off from the RP side of Massivecraft.

Click to shrink...

I don't get why some people think it's so absurd that people have to work for materials to have a chance at PvP. Of course you do. That's how minecraft has always worked for the most part, and it applies to some extent to like everything else on the server. If you want to build something you have to work for the materials. If you want to run a faction you have to work for the tax money. Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe most professional RPers put a lot of work into their character development before they start using them.

New players should know when they join a server with any survival aspect at all that they won't have everything handed to them on a silver platter. It's minecraft. They know what they're getting into. It's not that hard anyways. MCMMO is not that bad. Only a couple skills affect anything in the midst of a fight, and once they're at 1000 or 750 or whatever, you never have to do them again. Potions are super cheap, not even worth half a regal each most of them. Like, anyone CAN PvP, but if someone wants to get good at something to have to have some dedication. Applies to a lot of things, no?

 

[Party_Penguin27]

Quite honestly, roleplays and PvP mix like oil and water. The only way you could really get a serious role player to PvP would be to use the system we saw in the 'April fools' update

Click to shrink...

Or kit pvp!

 

[Sarge_Peppers]

I think you should stick to fireworks. If you want classes go to kit pvp