Archived Vespid Flight And Naga Metabolism

[AtlasGecko]

Okay, so. MonMarty recently told me the races are up for a complete overhaul in the future, and since I got a lot of great feedback from you guys on my Maiar post, I thought I'd see what you guys think of these two ideas that have been mulling around my brain.

• My first idea was Vespid flight. This would make the Vespid a very unique race, and since they only have the swarm ability which isn't always useful if you're a solo player but like Vespid, very useful too. Now, before you think to yourself "OMG DAS SO OP", I've thought this through quite carefully. Firstly, the flight ceiling would cap at 4 blocks above the block you stand on. This would mean you can't fly to ridiculous heights to escape players, and are still in bow and sword range. Secondly, the flight speed would only be 4 blocks/sec, making you unable to simply chase a player who must run over rough ground. Remember, walking speed in Minecraft is 4.3 blocks/sec, and sprinting is 5.6 blocks/sec. Thirdly, hunger would decrease much faster when flying. Although stacks of food could be taken, this would be a hinderance in the middle of battle or when food is scarce. This makes flying as a Vespid a utility more than a power. It would make building Vespid hives easier, and give them a bit more of a mantis/hornet feel, compared with the beetle/stick insect like Torpid. Fall damage would not be nerfed in any way. As a utility, it would make Vespids the only race to 'fly', although with the slow speed and height, it's more comparable to a hover, useful for traversing lava and water. Vespids being a semi-avious species honestly depends on what tickles your pickle.
• To sum up: The only advantages at this point I can think of to hovering is avoiding traps/lava at ground level, slightly faster travel over water, and the ability to get over 4 block high obstacles. Disadvantages are that hunger decreases much faster, you're still in reach of weapons, and you're slower than walking pace. As others have mentioned, hacking could be an issue.
• Secondly, I read that Naga no longer have the poisonous claws. I got thinking and Naga, being large reptiles, are cold-blooded. In nature, large, cold-blooded reptiles such as Crocodiles, Alligators and Tortoises are infamous for have a slow metabolism, and I imagine the Naga to be no different. In regard to this, the rate at which Nagas hunger bar drops could be halved or even thirded (is that a word?). I'm sure you're all capable of figuring out why exactly that would be useful. Tell me what you think!

 

[Vortex196]

I Like the Naga hunger idea, and it isn't exactly overpowered, as for the Vespid flight it would be interesting but i have an idea for it. If you want to fly maybe you have to wait like Two Seconds in order to fly, this would make it not too useful in pvp but maybe in scaling walls of a castle or something.

 

[Rip Shoul]

Ehhh, the flying even with the downsides is still really OP.
I would think they would still take fall damage (I mean just because they could fly, it doesn't mean they don't get hurt from falling). It should have a cool-down. And maybe it would only be allowed for vespids who are specifically flying insects (I don't know if the knew lore with new insectiod races has made all vespids flying, but this is just a current suggestion).
I do agree that vespids need more then just their hive-attack power but I don't know if flying is the answer.

As for Naga, this might be a good idea. My only problem is if we start-incorporating their cold-blood as one of their assets, it would also have to be one of their defects (having to warm up in the sun and all that). Or it could just be me trying to make everything too realistic. Again, I think the Naga race needs more than just having one power (even if it is pretty useful).

Just food for thought. I think this is possibly a good idea, but it needs some tweaking.

 

[Mecharic]

I like the idea/concept, I think that vespid shouldn't get flight but rather 'climb' - ants and other insects can usually climb, well, anything. Why not Vespid too? Flight is just a little OP, imho, and has the same result.

Naga need the metabolism feature, it's accurate to their species and not OP at all.

 

[AtlasGecko]

Vortex196 I think two seconds is too much time, and for scaling castles, all they have to do is make it 9 blocks tall and you're screwed. Rip Shoul I think the fall damage may have been a bit OP, actually. I'll remove it. I have an idea to make it less OP, actually. Make the flight ceiling 4 blocks, which leaves them vulnerable to a swinging sword. As for that matter, I don't making them sluggish in cold areas is really necessary, after all they do wear clothes....Usually. I'm all for tweaking ideas, nothing I suggest is ever set in stone, I'm very open to contributions! And Mecharic I would have thought Arachne would be better suited to 'climbing', with them being spider-ish. Besides, ants, wasps, bees, hornets, and most other predatory insects retain wings.

 

[Mecharic]

AtlasGecko - I do believe that only a few species of ant retain wings, though queens and male ants I think usually retain wings. That said, I would give Arachne the ability to place cobweb without actually having it, as well as being able to travel through it without any speed resistance, maybe allow them to climb cobwebs like ladders.

 

[Rip Shoul]

AtlasGecko

Yeah, I got too focused on specifics. As far as I am concerned, the Naga ability is a good idea.

 

[AtlasGecko]

Mecharic Yes, but the majority of instects in the family 'Vespidae' (notice the play on words for the race?), which are bees, wasps and hornets, retain wings. No other race can fly, although with how slow it would be and the low height, it's more like a hover. It'd be useful for traversing lava and water, too. Like I said, more of a utility. Rip Shoul thanks!

 

[Mecharic]

AtlasGecko - I'm just worried that people will scream "hacker" every time someone flies. That's why they removed vampire flight I believe, along with being OP (though vamp on vamp battles were awesome back then). Besides that fear I think it's an awesome idea tbh.

 

[AtlasGecko]

Well, if it's not hacking then who cares if someone screams hacker? I'm sure people would take note of a race that could hover, so they'd probably be told it's just a Vespid. Thanks by the way

 

[patrickdxs]

Well, if it's not hacking then who cares if someone screams hacker? I'm sure people would take note of a race that could hover, so they'd probably be told it's just a Vespid. Thanks by the way

Click to shrink...

Because people would go vespid, then hack to fly. The combination would make it near impossible to tell the difference, and could even fool anti-fly systems.

 

[hentem]

But having vespids fly would render all traps completely useless, maybe it would be better if they would fly for unlimited altitude - distance, but their hungerbar depletes rapidly during this.

The hunger system in minecraft is based on effort, not digestion, that means that if you stand still, you won't need to eat at all, making naga need to eat less would make no sense at all.

 

[Anvyn]

Hm, what if they could fly for about, 20-30 seconds, before having to get back on ground again? So like, under for example a war, they wouldn't be able to fly for too long, and shoot people from above?

 

[BulbousDevourer]

Well, if it's not hacking then who cares if someone screams hacker? I'm sure people would take note of a race that could hover, so they'd probably be told it's just a Vespid. Thanks by the way

Click to shrink...

The main problem with the hacker issue is that someone will scream hacker, take a screen-shot, post it on the forums, and no one would be able to tell if they were hacking or if they were just being a Vespid and flying. This would also give real hackers a bit of a disguise. Put on a Vespid skin, and no one would be able to tell the difference, especially on the forums.

 

[AtlasGecko]

patrickdxs I don't do anti-fly systems etc, so if it would really cause a problem and can't be solved then, obviously it can't happen. hentem I don't personally see many traps, and if they're well placed then they may just blunder into them regardless. I like that idea actually, having the hungerbar decrease like 3 or 4 times as fast when hovering. Unlimited altitude would definitely be O.P, since the player could simply eat a stack of food on the wing. I realise this could happen while hovering, but making sure it's not an inconvenience to do so is important. The only advantages at this point I can think of to hovering is avoiding traps/lava at ground level, slightly faster travel over water, and the ability to get over 4 block high obstacles. Disadvantages are that hunger decreases much faster, you're still in reach of weapons, and you're slower than walking pace. As for the Naga, I don't get what you mean. I know it's effort based, which means that a Naga will be able to do more activities for longer between meals.

 

[AtlasGecko]

Kirby12352 If they were more than 4 blocks above the ground, they would be hacking. Any lower and I'm personally not quite sure.

 

[TechPac]

I don't think any race suggestion should ever include flying, for many reasons, all of which have been stated before. I do agree with you however, Vespids need more race abilities, however wasn't it stated that they will be removing the race plugin altogether for when they implement traits?

 

[hentem]

patrickdxs I don't do anti-fly systems etc, so if it would really cause a problem and can't be solved then, obviously it can't happen. hentem I don't personally see many traps, and if they're well placed then they may just blunder into them regardless. I like that idea actually, having the hungerbar decrease like 3 or 4 times as fast when hovering. Unlimited altitude would definitely be O.P, since the player could simply eat a stack of food on the wing. I realise this could happen while hovering, but making sure it's not an inconvenience to do so is important. The only advantages at this point I can think of to hovering is avoiding traps/lava at ground level, slightly faster travel over water, and the ability to get over 4 block high obstacles. Disadvantages are that hunger decreases much faster, you're still in reach of weapons, and you're slower than walking pace. As for the Naga, I don't get what you mean. I know it's effort based, which means that a Naga will be able to do more activities for longer between meals.

Click to shrink...

Oh, no no, I mean that it should deplete VERY fast, something in the league of 1.5 chicken wing thingies per second, maybe it should be the life bar instead so noobs won't fly everywhere. I personally would love to see vespids take off to reach their nest, it would probably be fun as heck to play too.

For the naga part, no, just no, why would they even need that? Its not like poisoning the living daylight out of your opponent isn't already useful enough.

 

[HydraLana]

...tickles your pickle...

Click to shrink...

-giggles a bit at that- Well, I think they are both nice ideas, but I think that for the Vespids, their wings cannot support their body weight and that's why they can't fly.

 

[6xdestroyer]

Perhaps flying but they would be as fast as shift walking?

 

[AtlasGecko]

TechPac As long as it's balanced, it could be very useful without ruining the game for everyone else. Also, I don't think they are, MonMarty told me they were being revamped after the magic plugin was installed. hentem Remember that it should be actually useful, and also remember that a) you can WALK faster than people flying and B) they are STILL in melee range even when flying. For reasons like you mentioned, watching a Vespid fly to it's nest or between branches, it would be very cool to see. Poison melee attacks were removed, that's why I suggested this. 6xdestroyer holding shift to walk is extremely tedious and it would be almost pointless if you were moving that slow. I mean for it to be used as an quick, easy way to get between two points, somewhat safer than walking, but slower and a hell of a lot more demanding on the food bar.

 

[AtlasGecko]

The Shadow King well that could be changed surely..?

 

[TechPac]

I just don't see the point in adding changes to a plugin when its planned to be removed for a different one. (If that's still the case that is.)

 

[Magivore]

But having vespids fly would render all traps completely useless, maybe it would be better if they would fly for unlimited altitude - distance, but their hungerbar depletes rapidly during this.

The hunger system in minecraft is based on effort, not digestion, that means that if you stand still, you won't need to eat at all, making naga need to eat less would make no sense at all.

Click to shrink...

๖ۣۜI wouldn't say useless. You can place tripwire at the level in which players jump/fly, and if they leap over the pressure plates, their foot/face. That, or you could simply just place signs holding up blocks of lava at a hallway, so any vespids that choose to fly will happen to 'Fly too close to the sun'. Only in an open field would flight become powerful, as in enclosed areas, it just makes it possibly even easier to strangle them within the air.

 

[AtlasGecko]

Chronicler you're exactly right, I didn't think of that. Also, even in an open area, flight wouldn't be much good since firstly, you can still be shot at easily with a bow as well as with a sword, and secondly, you can't escape by going higher since 4 blocks is the limit, or fly away since you're slower than walking pace. I think the only time flying would come into play would be jungles, since they could, at a pinch, fly between trees or climb up out of reach vines. Maybe, escape to very low rooftops. On top of that, the player would have to have a steady supply of food to top up their energy levels should they plan to fly a lot.

 

[Mecharic]

Hmm... perhaps the following abilities would be better suited to the server and races:

Vespid - Insect Industry -> All Vespid have superior strength to their various non-insect species, allowing them to break blocks of all types in 5-10% less time. No PvP advantage.

Naga - Cold Blooded -> Lose hunger slower in desert, jungle, mesa, and savanna biomes. Lose hunger at a normal rate in Birch Forest, Roofed Forest, Swamp, and Mushroom Biomes. Lose hunger faster in Redwood Forest, Tundra, Mountain, and Taiga Biome.

What do you people think?

 

[Rip Shoul]

Mecharic

I really like the idea, but I think the Nagas would end having more weaknesses than benefits if their cold-bloodedness was added in.

 

[Mecharic]

Mecharic

I really like the idea, but I think the Nagas would end having more weaknesses than benefits if their cold-bloodedness was added in.

Click to shrink...

They're what, not poison resistant right now? So this would only give them 1 weakness (cold biomes) with 1 added plus (warm biomes) since they aren't any different in temperate biomes.

 

[Rip Shoul]

Mecharic

Again, I think your idea is good. My main problem is that this makes the Naga a predominantly defensive race when it comes to abilities. Which is annoying since they were once a threat to the Regalian empire.

 

[AtlasGecko]

Mecharic The dwarves are the miners though.... I see where you're coming from, what with beetles, ants and termites being able to build and burrow well, but that would best be saved for the Torpids in my opinion, who are much more earth-based and beetle like. As for the Naga, that would make it way more complicated than it needs to be. Sure it's a nice touch, but you should really revise your biology! The reason their metabolisms are slower is that they are COLD blooded, meaning their body temperature is relative to the environment. In colder climates, their hunger would last much longer, but they'd also be very slow. I don't think this is necessary to add in however, just that their hunger generally decreases slower than other races.

 

[Laach]

I like the idea/concept, I think that vespid shouldn't get flight but rather 'climb' - ants and other insects can usually climb, well, anything. Why not Vespid too? Flight is just a little OP, imho, and has the same result.

Naga need the metabolism feature, it's accurate to their species and not OP at all.

Click to shrink...

Ehm, by the looks of it right now, a 4 block flying ceiling vs. the ability to climb everything... The climbing is definitely more OP then the Vespid flight. I have seen many fortresses that lack a roof and would be vulnerable to a Vespid attack if they had that ability.

As for the Vespid Flight, I believe that it would be a wonderful idea to have that for roleplay reasons and for building reasons. I fully support the Vespid flight as they aren't used very much due to their underpowered abilities. As for Nagas, I've seen a plethora of them recently and don't entirely care if they get abilities or not. They seem to be doing fine without them.

So +1 Support for the Vespid ability.

 

[AtlasGecko]

Exactly! Thank you Laach!

 

[Mecharic]

Rip Shoul - Actually, considering that the only Naga that survived the purge would have been the ones skilled at defense and suited for hiding... it can actually make sense right?

AtlasGecko - lol wups. Sorry, 8th Grade Biology Teacher! XD

Laach - Fair enough, as I said I like the idea of slow flight but am just worried about the hacking claims that could be made by anyone with a grudge.

 

[Xskill]

Ah the human's desire for flight and the inevitable realization that it's impractical at best for beings the size of humans.

 

[AtlasGecko]

No problem! Mecharic

Impractical how? Xskill

 

[Laach]

Xskill

((actually, this one is better))

Mecharic from my experience as a Maiar, the extra hunger loss would make it easy to tell them apart. As for the people with grudges, let noobs be noobs. They will learn to tell the difference eventually.

 

[Xskill]

Well. The way that gravity works is that the heavier the object, the more force is pulling it towards heavier objects ((Like Aloria.))

For something to achieve flight, natural or otherwise, they have to exert a large amount of force downwards (Generally greater than their weight), which in turn propels them upwards. Anything large like a human sized bug would have to either A. Be extremely lightweight. Or B. Have an outrageously large wingspan.

This is not taking into account of course that the humanoid shape is unfit for flight and the act of flight is very taxing.

 

[Laach]

Well. The way that gravity works is that the heavier the object, the more force is pulling it towards heavier objects ((Like Aloria.))

For something to achieve flight, natural or otherwise, they have to exert a large amount of force downwards (Generally greater than their weight), which in turn propels them upwards.

Click to shrink...

So then Vespids don't weigh much. But if you'd like to do the math, be my guest.

 

[Xskill]

Laach

Google the cost of a jetpack.

Then Google the fuel usage of jetpacks.

Then Google the cost of jetpack fuel.

Impractical.

 

[Xskill]

Laach

Ah, but you've fallen into many problems by attempting to go down the light weight idea. Why are they so light? It's not like their made of lighter stuff. Birds achieve a lighter load by having hallow bones in certain points of their body (Among other things(Exceptions being parts that need to be strong for the stresses of taking off and landing.)) but bugs don't have bones.