Archived Unlocking The Protection 5/sharpness 6 Tier

[65jes89]

This thread stems off of a couple posts I made on this thread.

Currently, the economy is more or less in shambles, in terms of the prices of most products which have historically been some of the more expensive items available on MassiveCraft. God armor and weapons in particular have drastically decreased in pricing, primarily due to Gift4All running rampant, combined with changes with /fix and mcmmo repair since the original 1.9 update. Anecdotally, the acceptable price to sell a set of god armor in a market rich shop and sell a decent amount has nearly halved over the course of about a year. Combined with a large excess of regals due to pack isle (up to 75r/day) and voting (up to 170r/day), this has created little for pvpers, and most other survivalists who have large amounts of regals/items, to spend their regals on. This leads to items just sitting in vaults, regals sitting in banks, etc., and leads to a rather static economy.

As a solution to this, I would propose that Protection 5 and Sharpness 6 are introduced to the server. There are a couple ways to do this, but my personal suggestion would be a MassiveMagic crafting recipe which takes two pieces of protection 4/unbreaking 3, plus maybe a beacon block or something, and turn it into protection 5/unbreaking 3. This would instantly half the amount of top tier weapons on the server, while increasing demand and doubling the price for top tier armor.

What no doubt instantly comes to some people's minds will be MassiveArmor. I agree this was a failure, and do not want to see anything like this reimplemented into the server. The difference with MassiveArmor from this suggestion, however, is that MassiveArmor was available exclusively through voting, while the new tier could be made at any time using currently available armor. It would be more or less as seamless as if Mojang decided to add a new tier.

Balancing-wise, this could obviously screw up damage. To solve this, I would suggest that protection 5/sharp 6 are given the current damage/protection values which prot4/sharp5 currently have, and just move prot4/sharp5 and all lower tiers down in order to compensate for the change.

I think it should go without saying that gift4alls should under no circumstances be upgraded to using the new tier. Personally I think that gift4alls shouldn't be able to be crafted into the new tier, but I don't think that it would be possible to make any old gift4all pieces not be eligible for the upgrade.

Also, could we please see the data for the repair survey which we were promised over a month ago? @Kaezir

 

[Sperans]

I'm gonna have to agree with this. The amount of top tier tools on the server is ridiculous and makes buying god tools of any kind pointless unless your a pvper, even then you wouldn't want to spend much on such a common essential. Also let's see the data. I remember what I voted on the survey and am curious how the results from everyone else are.

 

[Gabauchi]

Hey, here's a thought: why did the 4alls give maxed items to begin with? Wouldn't it of made more sense to have an item that wouldn't completely devalue all tools and armor? E.g. prot3 and sharp4 weapons

 

[65jes89]

Hey, here's a thought: why did the 4alls give maxed items to begin with? Wouldn't it of made more sense to have an item that wouldn't completely devalue all tools and armor? E.g. prot3 and sharp4 weapons

Click to shrink...

It wasn't suggested multiple times, along with a plethora of other suggestions, all of which were ignored. At this point though I think it's probably too late to fix it by simply lowering the enchants.

 

[Conflee]

I agree. Though I would take this a step further: Add a few new, simi-rare, MassiveMobs that drop a required component to make the prot 5 / sharp 6 books. That way it's value isn't still built off the crumbling economy Massive has, given beacons are made of diamond blocks and hold hardly any value still.

Given the mob would be rare it would have to be a 100% drop rate, or if it was made more common lower to balance it out etc.

I would also like to see Efficiency and Smite getting an added level.

 

[Sperans]

It wasn't suggested multiple times, along with a plethora of other suggestions, all of which were ignored. At this point though I think it's probably too late to fix it by simply lowering the enchants.

Click to shrink...

Staff did this to increase the likelihood of someone buying a Gift4All obviously. I'm sure however that they were aware that with this increase of income through donations would create a backlash on parts of the massive economy. Most likely they really needed the funds to keep the server going and to be able to add new worlds like Packisle and MagicIsland.

 

[Kaezir]

I can't find my initial response but I was told I cannot release the repair poll. I however can release the PvP poll results.

On a side note, Armor durability has already been reduced I believe. There is some manner of discussion going on within the Game department involving repair, but there is no clear direction from my understanding thus far.

 

[Zacatero]

but I was told I cannot release the repair poll

Click to shrink...

That sounds super sketchy? Why cant you release the data from it? Who is preventing you from releasing it and why dont they want us to know? And MOST importantly, why would that person not want to show what the community wants?

 

[Kaezir]

2nd Side note. I can essentially make anything craftable.

That sounds super sketchy? Why cant you release the data from it? Who is preventing you from releasing it and why dont they want us to know? And MOST importantly, why would that person not want to show what the community wants?

Click to shrink...

As an exact quote from the post Omnomivore stated in the Repair post:

"I ran a poll over the past few days which collected information regarding views on this feature being implemented. This poll was targeted strictly at Factions/Survival/PvP players. Despite the beliefs stated here that most everyone would agree this feature would be beneficial - this was proven incorrect by the poll. The majority of factions/survival/PvP players voted against the implementation of this feature. For this reason I cannot move forward with proposing it to Tech staff and have to reject it.

I did, however, receive a lot of suggestions from players to further nerf or remove /fix. In the past this was not possible because it was a strictly premium feature, but that has not been the case for a while. I know this has been suggested multiple times on the forums, and is supported by myself and other members of the Game Department so I am going to work at volleying for its removal. I cannot guarantee this will occur, however."

Strictly speaking there is no point in releasing the poll. The thread was rejected before I even made the suggestion. There is no reason to reiterate her point because she told you guys the results.

 

[Zacatero]

Okay that makes more sense than what ur other post implied lol

 

[Sperans]

2nd Side note. I can essentially make anything craftable.

As an exact quote from the post Omnomivore stated in the Repair post:

"I ran a poll over the past few days which collected information regarding views on this feature being implemented. This poll was targeted strictly at Factions/Survival/PvP players. Despite the beliefs stated here that most everyone would agree this feature would be beneficial - this was proven incorrect by the poll. The majority of factions/survival/PvP players voted against the implementation of this feature. For this reason I cannot move forward with proposing it to Tech staff and have to reject it.

I did, however, receive a lot of suggestions from players to further nerf or remove /fix. In the past this was not possible because it was a strictly premium feature, but that has not been the case for a while. I know this has been suggested multiple times on the forums, and is supported by myself and other members of the Game Department so I am going to work at volleying for its removal. I cannot guarantee this will occur, however."

Strictly speaking there is no point in releasing the poll. The thread was rejected before I even made the suggestion. There is no reason to reiterate her point because she told you guys the results.

Click to shrink...

Was Omnomivore saying she supported it's removal? I didn't quite understand the phrase "volleying" since it is rather new to me.

 

[Kaezir]

Was Omnomivore saying she supported it's removal? I didn't quite understand the phrase "volleying" since it is rather new to me.

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Generally speaking, no one in Game staff is opposed, atleast if they are they have not voiced being against it.

 

[BenRekt]

+1

 

[Sperans]

Generally speaking, no one in Game staff is opposed, atleast if they are they have not voiced being against it.

Click to shrink...

Oh thank goodness.

 

[Viscar]

Hey I like this

 

[BenRekt]

Hey, here's a thought: why did the 4alls give maxed items to begin with? Wouldn't it of made more sense to have an item that wouldn't completely devalue all tools and armor? E.g. prot3 and sharp4 weapons

Click to shrink...

Most people with common sense said that as soon as Gifts4All was thing, and the staff knew this would happen, but justified it by saying it was needes to keep the servers running (which was probably right, tbh)

 

[MorgothTheDark]

This thread stems off of a couple posts I made on this thread.

Currently, the economy is more or less in shambles, in terms of the prices of most products which have historically been some of the more expensive items available on MassiveCraft. God armor and weapons in particular have drastically decreased in pricing, primarily due to Gift4All running rampant, combined with changes with /fix and mcmmo repair since the original 1.9 update. Anecdotally, the acceptable price to sell a set of god armor in a market rich shop and sell a decent amount has nearly halved over the course of about a year. Combined with a large excess of regals due to pack isle (up to 75r/day) and voting (up to 170r/day), this has created little for pvpers, and most other survivalists who have large amounts of regals/items, to spend their regals on. This leads to items just sitting in vaults, regals sitting in banks, etc., and leads to a rather static economy.

As a solution to this, I would propose that Protection 5 and Sharpness 6 are introduced to the server. There are a couple ways to do this, but my personal suggestion would be a MassiveMagic crafting recipe which takes two pieces of protection 4/unbreaking 3, plus maybe a beacon block or something, and turn it into protection 5/unbreaking 3. This would instantly half the amount of top tier weapons on the server, while increasing demand and doubling the price for top tier armor.

What no doubt instantly comes to some people's minds will be MassiveArmor. I agree this was a failure, and do not want to see anything like this reimplemented into the server. The difference with MassiveArmor from this suggestion, however, is that MassiveArmor was available exclusively through voting, while the new tier could be made at any time using currently available armor. It would be more or less as seamless as if Mojang decided to add a new tier.

Balancing-wise, this could obviously screw up damage. To solve this, I would suggest that protection 5/sharp 6 are given the current damage/protection values which prot4/sharp5 currently have, and just move prot4/sharp5 and all lower tiers down in order to compensate for the change.

I think it should go without saying that gift4alls should under no circumstances be upgraded to using the new tier. Personally I think that gift4alls shouldn't be able to be crafted into the new tier, but I don't think that it would be possible to make any old gift4all pieces not be eligible for the upgrade.

Also, could we please see the data for the repair survey which we were promised over a month ago? @Kaezir

Click to shrink...

I disagree with this. I agree G4All is a problem, but I disagree with your method of fixing it. It's needlessly complicated, and there are much simpler ways to fix this issue.

G4All should just have its purchasable items weakened. IE a special "massive item" with stats that do not exceed the Sharpness IV/ Prot III range. Either that, or the entire concept of that donation should be reworked/remove.

It is simply not a good donation concept. This has been pointed out time and time again, and if you have enough time to think of a plugin with over 300 magic words and combinations, surely you have enough time to think of several new donation packages that don't break the economy and rarity of items.


Your suggestion seems overly complicated, when in my mind, all you need to do is stop giving them top tier items for donating, and start giving them slightly lesser items so as to not eradicate the market price of top tier gear items.

It is also a shame that people do not lose armor sets on death, but I can understand this is a part of massive, and a large reason why you can continue to PvP uninhibited by that fear of loss. However, sometimes it's good to have risks and to not cater to everyone like they are four year olds who will get pissy over losing their sets.

There's no need to implement another enchantment level, especially if you are going simply reduce it stat wise to that of enchantments that are already found in the game. That's needlessly complicated.

In my opinion, G4All should be looked at and fixed, obviously the market for the items it gives at current have been reduced, but that's something we have to live with for now, you can't take back items given to every single player on the server (or at least the ones that were online when the donation was purchased)

In my mind, giving EVERY SINGLE ONLINE PLAYER a GOD tier item is not a good donation. It would be a lot more balanced to only give it to the player that purchased the donation, however as per the EULA, I'm sure that's not an option. 13$ USD per piece of god gear isn't even worth it in my opinion, unless you get it across multiple accounts, which you can as of now. Hell, donating to buy OP gear, whether for the donating player, or for all players is just a lazy donation concept. It's not good.



1. G4All Needs to stop giving OP items

2. We need to find a way to reduce the amount of OP items on the server at this time (I'm a big proponent of /fix being looked at, as it is, once you have one god set, as long as you have regals you have an infinite set, and any other sets you get either get sold or stockpiled. I'm sure some players have RIDICULOUS amounts of OP items. This isn't AS bad for weapons as you drop them in PvP ((their primary use imo)) however it is still a problem)

I understand you're trying to eliminate the functionality of all current Sharp V/Prot IV sets by reducing them stat wise and then creating a way to functionally obtain their stats in a new way, via crafting, however I feel as if this is not the correct solution to this problem.


I'd be all for some new massive magic enchants tho

 

[65jes89]

I disagree with this. I agree G4All is a problem, but I disagree with your method of fixing it. It's needlessly complicated, and there are much simpler ways to fix this issue.

G4All should just have its purchasable items weakened. IE a special "massive item" with stats that do not exceed the Sharpness IV/ Prot III range. Either that, or the entire concept of that donation should be reworked/remove.

It is simply not a good donation concept. This has been pointed out time and time again, and if you have enough time to think of a plugin with over 300 magic words and combinations, surely you have enough time to think of several new donation packages that don't break the economy and rarity of items.


Your suggestion seems overly complicated, when in my mind, all you need to do is stop giving them top tier items for donating, and start giving them slightly lesser items so as to not eradicate the market price of top tier gear items.

It is also a shame that people do not lose armor sets on death, but I can understand this is a part of massive, and a large reason why you can continue to PvP uninhibited by that fear of loss. However, sometimes it's good to have risks and to not cater to everyone like they are four year olds who will get pissy over losing their sets.

There's no need to implement another enchantment level, especially if you are going simply reduce it stat wise to that of enchantments that are already found in the game. That's needlessly complicated.

In my opinion, G4All should be looked at and fixed, obviously the market for the items it gives at current have been reduced, but that's something we have to live with for now, you can't take back items given to every single player on the server (or at least the ones that were online when the donation was purchased)

In my mind, giving EVERY SINGLE ONLINE PLAYER a GOD tier item is not a good donation. It would be a lot more balanced to only give it to the player that purchased the donation, however as per the EULA, I'm sure that's not an option. 13$ USD per piece of god gear isn't even worth it in my opinion, unless you get it across multiple accounts, which you can as of now. Hell, donating to buy OP gear, whether for the donating player, or for all players is just a lazy donation concept. It's not good.



1. G4All Needs to stop giving OP items

2. We need to find a way to reduce the amount of OP items on the server at this time (I'm a big proponent of /fix being looked at, as it is, once you have one god set, as long as you have regals you have an infinite set, and any other sets you get either get sold or stockpiled. I'm sure some players have RIDICULOUS amounts of OP items. This isn't AS bad for weapons as you drop them in PvP ((their primary use imo)) however it is still a problem)

I understand you're trying to eliminate the functionality of all current Sharp V/Prot IV sets by reducing them stat wise and then creating a way to functionally obtain their stats in a new way, via crafting, however I feel as if this is not the correct solution to this problem.


I'd be all for some new massive magic enchants tho

Click to shrink...

Frankly I think we're well beyond the point of just reducing the gift4all enchant tier and being done with it. Sure, it would help, eventually, but it would take years before prices go up enough to be even remotely reasonable. I mean, take fishing. It's been disabled for what, over 3 years at this point, and yet we are still feeling the effects of it in the form of high inflation in things like diamonds, as certain players have literally dozens of double chests of diamond blocks, and as a result can sell it for absurdly low prices without it really mattering.

Nerfing fix I'm all for, but it should be noted that most people use mcmmo repair at this point rather than /fix, as you can repair a full set with only a few diamonds, much cheaper than what is available using /fix. However, staff have refused to nerf repair, giving us an armor durability nerf and a poll that apparently shows that the majority of players are against nerfing repair. (Frankly I don't think player opinion should have anything to do with balancing decisions since most people will always refuse to ask for a nerf to something that helps them, but that's for a different thread).

I'm all for armor dropping, but staff will 100% never implement that.

Frankly I don't really see why it's overly complicated. In terms of tech implementation it shouldn't be very difficult to code into MassiveMagic, if it's not already possible to do with current Magic infrastructure. The idea itself doesn't seem overly complicated, so I'm not really sure what you mean by it being complicated.

 

[Typhenon]

lowkey had this idea a couple months ago was just to lazy to make a post

+1

 

[Viscar]

lowkey had this idea a couple months ago was just to lazy to make a post

+1

Click to shrink...

*too

 

[Typhenon]

*too

Click to shrink...

-_-

 

[falconhand]

I am all for this @jes_ . It would do leaps and bounds towards raising god item prices, significantly more than double. The prot4 stuff would be in high demand as well, to get more of the good sets. I think this just could be one of the things that helps to lessen the impact from 4alls.