Archived Traits Feedback

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BenRekt

BenRekt

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Hello,

To begin this post, I would just like to say that the staff have always done a great job in fixing bugs and glitches, especially in a timely and quick manner that I believe most of us can (and do) appreciate. The main idea of this post, as you may be able to guess from the title is about the trait system, and since this is the feedback sub-forum, this is mostly going to be my opinion on it. Once again, I would like to state that is my opinion, but I will also provide facts as well to back up my mindset.

The idea and implementation of the traits system is by far the most unique thing I have seen on any Minecraft server with no-mods required to play. It is creative, unique and offers some outstanding gameplay that players cannot find anywhere else. There is one thing hindering the traits system from being even greater than it already is, and these are the bugs and glitches that have come from it's implementation. As far as I can tell, PvP is greatly suffering from the bugs and glitches that the traits system has introduced to the community. At the moment, certain combinations of traits will deal random amounts of damage, randomly heal you, and do other effects that have nothing to do with the traits applied. I constantly see examples of this when I PvP, taking sometimes half of my health in full protection 4 armor just from one single hit.

I respectfully believe that the traits system is in need of fixing, which might entail temporary removal or replacement with the old race system, at least until these bugs and glitches are sorted out and fixed unless the bugs / glitches are going to be patched in the immediate future.

I would appreciate that those that disagree with what I have stated here also provide proof to support their claim, or at least a reason to why they find fault with my ideology.

Respectfully,
Ben
 
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Agreed, 4 hearts in one hit when you have the same exact traits as the other person is ridiculous.
 
Armorpen + Harmstrike can deal even more than 4 hearts. Even when atacker is using an axe and you're using axeresistant.
 
Agreed, Regardless of how much fun it is to blast everyone with fireballs or to run around and de-buff the hell out of someone with a bow. It just isn't right. People are dying at random moments. I have done extensive testing with traits (Anyone who speaks to me on TS can agree with that) and it makes no sense at all. Fireballs do more damage to people who drink fireresistant, Bows have a 33% chance of activating the strike if you SMACK someone with them (Effectively a wooden de-buff club). Combinations including armorpen and other strikes can 2-4 shot someone. People will randomly start doing much more damage than the did 5 seconds ago.

I love the idea of traits. For me it is the greatest concept that was ever implemented onto massive, I was able to do the most unorthodox things. But the problem is it is just glitched to all hell.
 
Remove Traits ; fix the glitches and bugs, in that meantime re-add races.
Once the traits are fixed, and the bugs are minimized re-add traits. PvP has decreased in fun, sometimes I am fighting someone and I have seen a single hit do 11 health (5.5 hearts) - assuming that the person on the receiving end is using HealthBoost2 and Absorption2 thats 1/3rd of their health! It's ridiculous that someone can loose 1/3rd of their health in a single hit. Its not a constant amount of damage too, sometimes I'll be taking almost no damage in a few hits then in 1 hit I loose a third of my total health, does that seem right to you, or is it just me that thinks its ridiculous?

I personally love the concept of traits, being able to choose a way of PvP that you like to fight instead of just choosing a race, but the glitches and bugs make the idea of traits undesirable
 
This video is a prime example of trait glitches at the 9:00 mark 2108u9 is able to do 6.5 hearts in 1 hit, Followed by 4.5 hearts the next hit.
 
I remember when I died in 3 hits to somebody that was using unarmed, when I had 18 hearts of health, and didn't have unarmedvulnerable nor unholy on me. That was (certainly not) fun.
 
Knyxor said:
I remember when I died in 3 hits to somebody that was using unarmed, when I had 18 hearts of health, and didn't have unarmedvulnerable nor unholy on me. That was (certainly not) fun.
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Hehe I've killed 2 separate people with just 2 hits each using an OP Unarmed trait build so yeah they are a bit glitched.
 
harmwater OP m8.

But in all seriousness, traits are rather glitched. As much as I love traits, they're extremely glitched in PvP. I personally agree with @Wannag , temporarily removing traits and re-adding races 'till traits are less glitchy. I personally feel that PvP has much too much with who can come up with the glitchiest traits combo, rather than skill. (Although that certainly is still a part.)
 
cap'n ben making another forum thread that is genius and needs to be looked at by everyone.
 
@MonMarty I just thought you should take a look at this considering I saw you in general saying something along the lines of "I got 3-shot"
 
Hey!

It's awesome to have you guys testing these out. However, it's a bit difficult to determine what exactly might need fixing if we don't know exactly what's broken. Can you clearly list glitchy or buggy trait builds and exactly what they do wrong? At that point, we'll be in a better place to fix bugs.
 
As they are stating @Ryciera , (maybe it is not a glitch) but pvping with traits has made pvp less fun.
Its my opinion because having 4 additional(Am I right? Maybe 2, not sure tho.)hearts is a bit too much, and they are considered as resorption and they are harder to take down then normal hearts. When you take them down it take short time for them to get back.
Enough of that trait.
So as I remember, taking a lot of damage by axe, I remember when I was fighting vip at Magnanimus and he took 5 hearts with single shot. Maybe it is not a glitch, maybe its just the way you made it. So in my opinion, it should all be re-balanced.
 
BornaSepic said:
As they are stating @Ryciera , (maybe it is not a glitch) but pvping with traits has made pvp less fun.
Its my opinion because having 4 additional(Am I right? Maybe 2, not sure tho.)hearts is a bit too much, and they are considered as resorption and they are harder to take down then normal hearts. When you take them down it take short time for them to get back.
Enough of that trait.
So as I remember, taking a lot of damage by axe, I remember when I was fighting vip at Magnanimus and he took 5 hearts with single shot. Maybe it is not a glitch, maybe its just the way you made it. So in my opinion, it should all be re-balanced.
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  • Absorption2 + HealthBoost2 = 8 extra hearts = total of 18 hearts
  • Traits are fun, but glitched and bugged some PvPers might prefer races, but I like traits as long as the damage is fixed.
  • Only 5 hearts in 1 hit Borna? I once dropped @FubeTheMangler from 75% to 0. 7 and a half hearts in a hit isnt right, I was also hit for 6 and a half hearts at Mithril a few days ago. To Be Honest, 5 is kinda the normal now...
 
I'm surprised that no one actually answered Ryciera's question. Its easy to say "this car don't work" but harder to say why it doesn't work. Has anyone actually tested each individual trait in active PvP (as a standalone and then paired) to see which traits/trait-combos are causing the glitches? Because that is the information that would be needed to fix traits.

Good luck fixing them though. I like traits better (though a Racial Traits plugin would be best imo) than races, but if it breaks an entire part of gameplay it should be fixed.
 
Mecharic said:
I'm surprised that no one actually answered Ryciera's question. Its easy to say "this car don't work" but harder to say why it doesn't work. Has anyone actually tested each individual trait in active PvP (as a standalone and then paired) to see which traits/trait-combos are causing the glitches? Because that is the information that would be needed to fix traits.

Good luck fixing them though. I like traits better (though a Racial Traits plugin would be best imo) than races, but if it breaks an entire part of gameplay it should be fixed.
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THERE IS NO PATTERN. I sometimes run no damage dealing traits and go full defensive traits and still can deal 5 hearts in a hit. That is the problem, there is no pattern. there is no pattern. there is NO pattern. I see people who run harmstrike and armorpenstrike not do as much damage as me sometimes. Let me say this one last time:

THERE IS NO PATTERN.
 
Wannag said:
THERE IS NO PATTERN. I sometimes run no damage dealing traits and go full defensive traits and still can deal 5 hearts in a hit. That is the problem, there is no pattern. there is no pattern. there is NO pattern. I see people who run harmstrike and armorpenstrike not do as much damage as me sometimes. Let me say this one last time:

THERE IS NO PATTERN.
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I'm not a coder, but I have the feeling that leaves Cay with the options of removing traits forever or building an entirely new traits plugin... have you seriously tried every single trait on its own to see if any 1 trait causes this chaotic issue? Patterns may not exist, but a cause certainly should...
 
Mecharic said:
I'm not a coder, but I have the feeling that leaves Cay with the options of removing traits forever or building an entirely new traits plugin... have you seriously tried every single trait on its own to see if any 1 trait causes this chaotic issue? Patterns may not exist, but a cause certainly should...
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I have not tested every trait but I PvP on a daily basis, sometimes I deal almost no damage other times an enemy can be dead in 3-5 hits
 
Mecharic said:
Well, why not try em 1 at a time and see what that pops out?
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I've tried HarmStrike, Armorpenstrike, AxeExpert, Armorpenimmune, HarmImmune, WitherStrike, PosionStrike, Fireballs, ArcheryExpert, SwordExpert, UnarmedExpert and some Vanilla factors that might affect the glitches. I've tested them together and with other traits combinations, Its just random patterns
 
Wannag said:
I've tried HarmStrike, Armorpenstrike, AxeExpert, Armorpenimmune, HarmImmune, WitherStrike, PosionStrike, Fireballs, ArcheryExpert, SwordExpert, UnarmedExpert and some Vanilla factors that might affect the glitches. I've tested them together and with other traits combinations, Its just random patterns
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But have you tried them alone? Like, to see if any 1 of them causes it when only 1 trait is used or it is happens only when multiple traits are used?
 
There are over a billion possible character builds.
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This is from http://www.massivecraft.com/massivetraits. It would take for ever to test out every combination.

Also, at last count, there are 100+ traits, whereas half of them aren't even pvp related, and some are right in the middle. Flywater for example isn't normally considered a pvp trait, yet is used by a lot of pvpers @Wannag included in multiple occasions.
I believe the issue is as follow. MCMMO and MassiveTraits aren't completely compatible. I'm just speculating here, but what I think is an issue is that neither know how to interact with each other. I could be completely wrong, but this is my best guest. For example, and do correct me if I'm wrong, if someon runs armorpenstrike, axeexpert, and harmstrike, and also lands a MCMMO axe critical, this opens the gate for a TON of damage to be done. I don't think MCMMO and MassiveTraits work well together, so they can't tell each other "Hey, this person has the armorpenstrike effect on them that increases damage dealt to them, don't allow mcmmo to crit them." So when all these come info effect, what can occur varies.
Again this is speculation and I could be completely wrong.
 
Ryciera said:
Hey!

It's awesome to have you guys testing these out. However, it's a bit difficult to determine what exactly might need fixing if we don't know exactly what's broken. Can you clearly list glitchy or buggy trait builds and exactly what they do wrong? At that point, we'll be in a better place to fix bugs.
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There is one glitch that has been tested by @R_O_B_E_rt which makes fireballs do more damage to a player if they are using a FireRes potion. I have no video evidence of this glitch but will post one as soon as I can. The problem with this glitch is that it makes PvP'ing some one with a sword almost impossible due if another player is sitting behind him spamming fireballs, due to the fact that you need the fire res to protect against the sword but it makes you almost a one shot kill by the guy behind him.
Sorry for any awful grammar - (H)Kidmodo
 
To summarize some of the Traits bugs
-Unarmed does extremely high amounts of damage, even if the enemy doesn't have unarmedvulnerable. Unarmed is capable of doing as much damage as sharpness V axe, and sometimes even more.
-Axes and swords do random ammounts of damage, as @Wannag stated sometimes even with full defensive trait you can do up to 7 hearts in one hit.
-Fireballs do more damage to people with the fire-resistance effect, than to people without it.
-Some people have glitched damage specified to certain people for example @Waminer takes almost no damage from @Wannag yet is able to deal up to 5 hearts a hit to wannag,
 
Yoloorange said:
To summarize some of the Traits bugs
-Unarmed does extremely high amounts of damage, even if the enemy doesn't have unarmedvulnerable. Unarmed is capable of doing as much damage as sharpness V axe, and sometimes even more.
-Axes and swords do random ammounts of damage, as @Wannag stated sometimes even with full defensive trait you can do up to 7 hearts in one hit.
-Fireballs do more damage to people with the fire-resistance effect, than to people without it.
-Some people have glitched damage specified to certain people for example @Waminer takes almost no damage from @Wannag yet is able to deal up to 5 hearts a hit to wannag,
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There was a time when it was the exact opposite, I dealt lots to waminer and took nothing
 
We should just take out traits and use races until these problems are solved.... logic.
 
Here are Pro's and Con's for Traits (For RP and PvP)

Pros for PVP:
  • It is amazing to have, being able to customize the way you want to PvP and being able to counterbuild other players
  • Makes PvP a little more strategic
  • Adds in better Support People, Buffs archery and unarmed damage
  • It can also be used to build! (Jump2, FeedAlways)
  • Builds can be used to make it easier to darkroom
Cons for PvP:
Very Glitchy (This is the MAJOR issue for us PvP'ers)

(Note:This next section will be for RP, I dont rp, I dont all the pros and cons, I'll try my best to not sound like an idiot)

Pros for RP
  • Can be used to customize your Character
  • Can be used to show off some specific skills you character may have (Run Fast? = Speed, Jump High = Jump)
  • Can be used to go into more detail than races (Maiar can have water breathing, Starve Sunlight, FeedWater, stuff like that)
  • Overall better for Roleplay?
Cons for RP
  • Some people may make their traits a bit unrealistic (Jump 2 for a human could be an example)
  • (I dont know any more, I dont roleplay at all, mabye some people could add onto this?)
@BenAlex144 @Joshy54100 @Alj23 @Mecharic @Terrariauk @65jes89
 
Wannag, it seems like the pros outweigh the cons pretty much completely when you list them. 9 pros and 2 cons, even if one of them is glitches (that only PvPers suffer from). I'd like to add a few pros to a "Misc" section:

Pros:
  • Can be used to increase building speed
  • Can be used to remove hunger issues and allow focus on not-farm-related tasks
  • Can be used to improve resource collection speeds
  • Can be used to allow for unique builds (underwater, lava & spider nest)
  • Can be used to increase travel speeds
There are no cons for the Misc section, except maybe that doublejump makes it a pain to climb mountains lol
 
Mecharic said:
Wannag, it seems like the pros outweigh the cons pretty much completely when you list them. 9 pros and 2 cons, even if one of them is glitches (that only PvPers suffer from). I'd like to add a few pros to a "Misc" section:

Pros:
  • Can be used to increase building speed
  • Can be used to remove hunger issues and allow focus on not-farm-related tasks
  • Can be used to improve resource collection speeds
  • Can be used to allow for unique builds (underwater, lava & spider nest)
  • Can be used to increase travel speeds
There are no cons for the Misc section, except maybe that doublejump makes it a pain to climb mountains lol
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Remember this server is medieval based and I'm pretty sure that
  • Building was slow in medieval times
  • Hunger issues were very common
  • Resource Collection was slow unless you had lots of workers
 
Mecharic said:
Wannag, it seems like the pros outweigh the cons pretty much completely when you list them. 9 pros and 2 cons, even if one of them is glitches (that only PvPers suffer from). I'd like to add a few pros to a "Misc" section:

Pros:
  • Can be used to increase building speed
  • Can be used to remove hunger issues and allow focus on not-farm-related tasks
  • Can be used to improve resource collection speeds
  • Can be used to allow for unique builds (underwater, lava & spider nest)
  • Can be used to increase travel speeds
There are no cons for the Misc section, except maybe that doublejump makes it a pain to climb mountains lol
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It's not about the raw number of them, unless you count the glitch one as like 10 cons. Personally, I think the best fix would be to remove all traits that are used in PvP or to just remove the entire plugin (that would be preferable, since then literally everyone would use speed2 and flywater. That's no good, so best option is to remove the plugin completely (well, from a PvPer's perspective at least)

The bugs are just extremely out of hand that virtually all PvPers I've talked to dislike traits and want it gone, at least temporarily while it's fixed or something.
 
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