Archived The Slums, The Sewers, The Newsewers, And Their Problems.

[Sozzer]

So, a bunch of us got to talking about the slums, the sewers, and the newsewers. And in the end, we found ourselves agreeing on some major points, points that most people we've asked so far have agreed on too. To get some thoughts from both more players & hopefully some staff members, we're putting up a post here.
Please remember that this is based off opinions, and if you disagree, that's good! Just be sure to mention that you disagree and why, so we can take it into account. Additionally, this is made from the perspective of players who've been around through the sewers, the newsewers, and the shift to the surface.
There may be things that an outsider sees clearly which we don't, or staff matters that we weren't aware of. Additionally, this isn't meant to be in any way negatively aimed toward the staff members involved in these various projects - their work has been fantastic, and we truly do appreciate it.

Without further ado, here we go.

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What are/were the main issues with each world, and why were they the case?

The slums, though wonderfully built, suffer from the same problem as the rest of Regalia - there's nobody there outside of a single main hotspot. This one is largely the case because the whole area feels, for the most part, like it's just streets and housing. Poorer, but still just "more of the same" when compared to the rest of Regalia. It also has the issue that plagued the newsewers, which I'll address in the next item on the list.

The newsewers had this to a lesser extent, but they had another, larger problem - lack of activity. There just wasn't anything going on for the most part. The cause of this is much less clear, but here's a take on it. The continual teasing of them as "very soon", "just a month or two away", and similar things made activity drop in the original sewers. And when the newsewers did come out, properties took a fair while to be set up, and bases even longer - again with them always being "very soon", and "right around the corner". By the time everything was set up, much of the activity and interest in gangs and general crime had waned heavily.

The original sewers were, to be frank, struggling with their own design. This problem is a simple one to explain. They were designed for a different RP environment, at a different time, and as things changed they just weren't ideal anymore.



But how can things like that be fixed?

Well, the original sewers needed outright replacement, and that's been done for a long time now. So that one's gonna be written off.
But the slums and the newsewers have problems that were never solved - and so, can't be written off. Their problems are, for the most part, the same, hence their being clumped together.
So what ideas do we have? Well, while we'd love to hear other suggestions, this is the only one we ended up settling on.


Replacement & Modification

The newsewers was, we all agreed, probably the best of the three. While the slums outdid it with its connection to the rest of the roleplay environment, it brought its own host of lesser problems, particularly lag and a widespread drift away from gang & crime rp, which the great gang system somewhat counteracted until unfortunate circumstances led to its pulling to a halt. What's more, it sadly didn't end up correcting the issues within the newsewer itself, and is even more centralised.

As a result, this suggestion consists of the following:​

• Reviving the newsewer world.
• Connecting it to the surface again, linking them up more widely by adding access points throughout the city.
• And then, probably the most controversial part: Removing the tavern.

Why remove the tavern? Well, because as far as any of us can remember, the time the original sewers started being more centralised was when the mossy poss turned up. Until then there was no independent tavern/meeting place, and RP turned up all over the place in random pockets.
But this centralised neutral meeting ground, while a nice idea in principle, just doesn't work out too well for crime RP. Either it ends up not being neutral at all, or the neutral ground being the only place RP occurs heavily stifles conflict and discord between groups. Crime was dominated by large gangs in the original sewers primarily because choosing not to get involved with one made things more dangerous - you didn't have the protection a gang offered, nor allies to work with, and without a neutral meeting ground or any largely guaranteed safe haven, that was a dangerous thing indeed. Combined with the great gang system when it's ready to be revived, this could make a big difference.
However, this has some major problems. For one, all the work that went into the slums would be left behind. For another, it'd revive the rift that separated crime RP from the rest of the server for so long - though, whether this was ever really healed by the slums is still a topic of some debate. And then there's the question of whether it'd really end up helping revive crime RP at all, though that one can't be answered without trying it.

So as stated in the beginning, we're opening this up for anyone to give their opinions. We'd all love to hear what people have to say, and what you all think of this!




Tagging some people whose opinions would be especially appreciated:
@MonMarty @Dardy @Greenie @Conflee @TheBioverse @Aespair ​

 

[MonMarty]

My time has ran out. Any such changes will need to be supervised by other lore staff.

 

[Sozzer]

My time has ran out. Any such changes will need to be supervised by other lore staff.

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sad but understandable
if you could tag or throw this to someone who might be able to help, that'd be greatly appreciated

 

[NoRezForYou]

Leeet my people gooooo.

 

[ScaledSupremacy]

For another, it'd revive the rift that separated crime RP from the rest of the server for so long

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Actually, it kind of makes sense to me that criminal activity wouldn't be as frequent in main Regalia. Everyone always go to such lengths to inform people of how militarized and heavily guarded the city is, so it makes sense to me that most of the crime would happen somewhere else like the sewers, and only occur in main Regalia during more thoroughly planned heists like it used to, and partially still is.
Then again, the rift between the two rp-worlds makes guard rp quite stale. So there is a flipside as per usual.
In any event, I don't see a rift being too much of a problem, but that's just my opinion on the matter.

Another thing I might mention is that I hardly see any vampires around apart from Ombratore anymore. There is no real vampire environment like there was with the original sewers, where it was practically dominated by them. Sure, there are the narrow tunnels under the slums, and the slum tavern.. But meh.. It's too narrow for larger rping groups and I hardly ever see them used.

 

[ZiggyStarDusted]

*In a world, where we had both a slum.. AND a sewer!*

 

[Daekon]

*In a world, where we had both a slum.. AND a sewer!*

Click to shrink...

Nice thought, but that wouldn't really work, unless they reduced the size of both and fully joined them, I guess, so they're more like one place than two.

 

[celticwitch]

There is a new sewer?

 

[Conflee]

I already tossed some of these opinions into the skype chat but ill drop them here too:

I am personally not in favor of reverting to the newsewers, but I do think the Slums needs changes to fix these issues.

My first thought was having a dragon attack rend less used chunks of the slums level. Removes some houses, reduced the livable surface area a tad, etc. These areas that are 'cleansed' could be used and populated with more unique landmarks instead of the endless sea of housing.

Furthermore, I think some of the still-standing housing areas should be remodeled into unique housing chunks, like the newsewers had, IE an 'Elven' themed one, a dwarven one, a cannibal theme one, more covered areas that vampires would enjoy, etc.

More open areas for confrontation, plus more unique locations to break up the monotony of the sea of housing that the slums is currently.

I also think that things are too free to flow through currently. After some observation on player travel, and thought into what 'choke points' staff think would benefit population flow and generate RP, some alleys and roads should be blocked off with collapsed buildings, barricades, etc, to limit travel in a similar manner to how the tunnels in the sewers did.

Also as a related thought on the topic of dragging crime in Regalia: The docks and harbor, in the vast majority of settings, are usually a hotbed of crime. Its where drunken sailors drink away their wages, and the less legally inclined try to prey on them, and any others who stumble into their path. In Regalia, it has always not been the case though. Its, shady, sure, but there was one sewer entrance in the OG sewers that lead to it and beyond that, nothing.

It would be interesting to see teleports in tunnels used to connect the Harbor and Slums to try to give crime RPers an easier path into the city (rather than the massive, destroyed gate that leads to a major roadway with several government function buildings dotted on the path to anything that is even remotely 'prey'. It might as well be a seperate world with that in the way, its a wall of 'nope'.)



I dont think the location is so much at fault for the failures of Crime RP, but rather a series of unfortunate issues that rose up and impeded the Great Gang System as it was revving up. Its not anyone's fault really, sh*t happens that's life. Though I do think the setting can elevate this a tad.

Beyond the setting I think the real issue is circumstance: The Gangs were united by the guards attacking. And... then... nothing? For... ages. So everyone is half-cautiously allied half-not giving a crap either way. Crime RPers need a new common goal, or something to fracture them. Mayhaps.... something to bring out the competitiveness in players while rewarding good OOC conduct during the affair... such as.... a... rat king being deposed? Of course for that to happen the rat king would need to become active again and host some events to build up to it, which would also help bring in more RP.

Thats my take on it. I really just dont want to flip flop back and forth over and over or deal with non-centralized RP. Makes finding anything to do a pain to be honest? Especially in dull moments like this, can you imagine if nobody gathered ANYWHERE right now? there would be actually literally nothing going on in the slums. Well. Not fully. But close enough as far as any casual RPer is concerned, which drives them away because its boring.


Scrapping and soft resetting to the old sewers doesnt feel right at all.

 

[Zacatero]

This is someone who isn't a role player talking, but I thought the slums were meant to replace the poor district... like wouldn't it make sense to have both the sewers and the slums because if you remove the slums then there really isn't any poor district housing in the whole city

 

[Mandyy_]

This is someone who isn't a role player talking, but I thought the slums were meant to replace the poor district... like wouldn't it make sense to have both the sewers and the slums because if you remove the slums then there really isn't any poor district housing in the whole city

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Personally, I think it was meant to replace both the slums and poor district.

 

[FireFan96]

My personal anecdotes revert to the times when I was active in poor districts and sewers, so it is either very dated or non as immersive as others.

With that said, the old poor district is what got me to stay on Massive when I was a new player. the 30r a month housing was expensive for a noob back then, and once a region opened up, it was cramped and had enough room to save some valuables and not much more. It was perfect in my opinion, as the lack of space was incentive to try and make regals to buy a region in the other districts, which I eventually did. The cramped housing helped with the immersion that everyone was clumped together and it was disease riddled.

The new slums to me just feel like another district. there are a lot of houses, but they just don't "wow" me as much. while they are about the same size as the old regions, the pricing for them is 3x as much. I think it is beneficial to just drop the slum houses to 30r a month, in the hopes that people who don't have money but want a region can go there to start off. this won't fix a lot, but it will give reason to spend some regals to at least test out the slums. I'm less inclined to invest in a regalian region if it will set me back a week of regal grinding.

Anyways, I also think a major issue with the slums (from my experiences) is that there is one specific RP that is nonexistant in the slums: fear RP. Quoting from above:

Another thing I might mention is that I hardly see any vampires around apart from Ombratore anymore. There is no real vampire environment like there was with the original sewers, where it was practically dominated by them. Sure, there are the narrow tunnels under the slums, and the slum tavern.. But meh.. It's too narrow for larger rping groups and I hardly ever see them used.

Click to shrink...

I created an Umredd vampire the day the slums and vampire town came up. I rented out asylum room 13, and made an honest attempt to vampire, only RPing when the sun was down, using the tunnels, etc.

Every single slum dweller I encountered was extremely nonchalant about A BLOOD SUCKING VAMPIRE within arm's reach to them. The fear RP was missing. Heck, I even made it extremely obvious to another player that I intended to attack them when they turned around, and they just simply talked back like I was a normal person. And the one time I finally got someone into a area in the tunnels to drink their blood, I get white knighted out of the blue and just end up lying in the bottom of a pit of human remains.

To put a long story short, no vampiric abilities or lore-implied social stigmas were going to deal with the courageous slum dwellers who just treated my vampire like a non-infected person. It was demoralizing for me as someone who made an attempt at slum RP, and after that I have never given slum RP another look.

The only other time I think I actively RP'd was when I was in the slum tavern and there were 4 other people, who were dueling it out, as you do. I just said one remark and walked away after that, since slum fights have become overly cliche to me to the point where I personally view slum RP as a meme.

What do I think would make the slums better? Forcing people to accept fear RP upon their characters. The magic is lost in the slums because it seems to me anyone can just walk in as if it was just another Regalian district. And the entire point of the slums is to be the worst place in Regalia to be, where every day could be our last.

that's my take on the slums. Fear RP doesn't exist and unless everyone (not just the same few people who do in fact accept fear and make a very believable character) agrees to portray the lore accepted stigmas of some demonic forces, I see no reason why anything should change.

The ball is in the player's court, not the lore staff's. What will we do? try and make the slums immersive as they should be, or keep things as is?

 

[ScaledSupremacy]

My personal anecdotes revert to the times when I was active in poor districts and sewers, so it is either very dated or non as immersive as others.

With that said, the old poor district is what got me to stay on Massive when I was a new player. the 30r a month housing was expensive for a noob back then, and once a region opened up, it was cramped and had enough room to save some valuables and not much more. It was perfect in my opinion, as the lack of space was incentive to try and make regals to buy a region in the other districts, which I eventually did. The cramped housing helped with the immersion that everyone was clumped together and it was disease riddled.

The new slums to me just feel like another district. there are a lot of houses, but they just don't "wow" me as much. while they are about the same size as the old regions, the pricing for them is 3x as much. I think it is beneficial to just drop the slum houses to 30r a month, in the hopes that people who don't have money but want a region can go there to start off. this won't fix a lot, but it will give reason to spend some regals to at least test out the slums. I'm less inclined to invest in a regalian region if it will set me back a week of regal grinding.

Anyways, I also think a major issue with the slums (from my experiences) is that there is one specific RP that is nonexistant in the slums: fear RP. Quoting from above:

I created an Umredd vampire the day the slums and vampire town came up. I rented out asylum room 13, and made an honest attempt to vampire, only RPing when the sun was down, using the tunnels, etc.

Every single slum dweller I encountered was extremely nonchalant about A BLOOD SUCKING VAMPIRE within arm's reach to them. The fear RP was missing. Heck, I even made it extremely obvious to another player that I intended to attack them when they turned around, and they just simply talked back like I was a normal person. And the one time I finally got someone into a area in the tunnels to drink their blood, I get white knighted out of the blue and just end up lying in the bottom of a pit of human remains.

To put a long story short, no vampiric abilities or lore-implied social stigmas were going to deal with the courageous slum dwellers who just treated my vampire like a non-infected person. It was demoralizing for me as someone who made an attempt at slum RP, and after that I have never given slum RP another look.

The only other time I think I actively RP'd was when I was in the slum tavern and there were 4 other people, who were dueling it out, as you do. I just said one remark and walked away after that, since slum fights have become overly cliche to me to the point where I personally view slum RP as a meme.

What do I think would make the slums better? Forcing people to accept fear RP upon their characters. The magic is lost in the slums because it seems to me anyone can just walk in as if it was just another Regalian district. And the entire point of the slums is to be the worst place in Regalia to be, where every day could be our last.

that's my take on the slums. Fear RP doesn't exist and unless everyone (not just the same few people who do in fact accept fear and make a very believable character) agrees to portray the lore accepted stigmas of some demonic forces, I see no reason why anything should change.

The ball is in the player's court, not the lore staff's. What will we do? try and make the slums immersive as they should be, or keep things as is?

Click to shrink...

An obvious idea is to try and allow certain maim perms within the slum area. But even so, I feel that might be abused very easily..

 

[FireFan96]

An obvious idea is to try and allow certain maim perms within the slum area. But even so, I feel that might be abused very easily..

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that would just lead to this:

Spoiler

permissions do not need to change, and everything is fine the way it is. It just requires us to enforce the fear RP that should be prevalent. Running away isn't cowardly if you live to fight another day.

 

[CainsTedTalk]

Too make his short and sweet, remove whatever staff run or npc run taverns or buildings. Centralizing role play in areas that only serve as "socializing role play" isn't good for the crime rp setting. I'm all for bringing back the sewers with the tavern gone. No neutral grounds.

I would just allow player bases to create there own shops and taverns too allow "factions" to form. If you had business and buildings run by factions it creates conflict and plot progression. Rather than a npc player hub for people to socialize.

 

[CainsTedTalk]

This goes for the emporium as well. It centralizes roleplay too much.

 

[CainsTedTalk]

that would just lead to this:

Spoiler

permissions do not need to change, and everything is fine the way it is. It just requires us to enforce the fear RP that should be prevalent. Running away isn't cowardly if you live to fight another day.

Click to shrink...

Going back to vampire fear rp. I played as a vampire for a few months as a umredd, only recently curing do too in character events.

In the new sewers my character was a stalker, he created his own little hunting grounds aswell. The little alley way by the tavern that got a lot of traffic. I would camp out there by myself or with a few other vampires and would attack travelers on site, no words and no mercy.

Despite there constantly being a threat of vampires in the area. People would come back time and time again and a fight would occur time and time again.

That's just my experance.

 

[Conflee]

This goes for the emporium as well. It centralizes roleplay too much.

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Before the Emporium was added 90% of player gatherings were just at the gate anyway. SO im a bit confused why people dont like it. It basically took an area that was already always a gathering point and added tables and shops.

I think Central Locations will/would form on their own eventually even if they were all removed. Staff creating them themselves is just a way of controlling population flow and trying to make areas more interactive. For example, if the Golden Willow was replaced with generic housing today, the main street would still hold most of the RP. If the Emporium was removed today, the gate would still hold most of the RP, the gat and the market a bit west of it by the stone platform area. Its just two natural areas that form.

I would just allow player bases to create there own shops and taverns too allow "factions" to form. If you had business and buildings run by factions it creates conflict and plot progression. Rather than a npc player hub for people to socialize.

Click to shrink...

With Slum Bases coming this is going to be a lot more viable in the future. I imagine with a little encouragement this can all devolve into some fun faction v faction wars, vying for power.

 

[ZZaque]

Drunkfailure at your service. Let's have a chat about the slums.

• Reviving the newsewer world.

• Connecting it to the surface again, linking them up more widely by adding access points throughout the city.

Click to shrink...

Restoring the sewers is a no. Re-separating the worlds would be so counterintuitive to what the slums attempt to do that literally months of work would go down the drain. Roleplay is always separated between Slum-Noble-Commoner, but with everything in one world, that rift is a little less wide. The guards can raid the slums, the slum-people can defend their home, so on. The sewers was almost like it was an entirely different world in itself. Which was a catch 22.

And then, probably the most controversial part: Removing the tavern.

Click to shrink...

The Gang system had died and Slum roleplay ground to almost a halt. The Emporium makes the slums have people, you can tell the difference from when it is and isn't manned.

Why remove the tavern? Well, because as far as any of us can remember, the time the original sewers started being more centralised was when the mossy poss turned up. Until then there was no independent tavern/meeting place, and RP turned up all over the place in random pockets.

Click to shrink...

The fact of the matter is, when someone logs on they don't want to run around in circles looking for three people in a circle to roleplay with. There's certain areas that have to be established as places to conduct roleplay. The Golden Willow is one such place, the Falcon's Nest is another, if you don't have places like this you have a situation in which someone logs on, sees no one, and logs off. Then that cycle continues. The roleplay 'pocket' system isn't viable, as exemplified as the time between the Emporium's activity coming to a peak and the Gang system falling showed.

In other news, the Crime System is being worked on. I took @Conflee 's suggestions and will be further dissecting them along with my own ideas to create something that is.. more inclusive than the other system. That's not one of those 'it's just two months away' sort of things. Though, it might actually be two months away, I have no time frame on it. But know that I keep my promises. I've released Slum Bases, with the hope that it would be enticing for some smaller groups to take a foothold in the slums, but to no avail. But wouldn't you agree that having a working crime system is a little more important than a couple of bases that no one roleplays in and even if they are, isolates RP? I would.

A second thing I'd like to add is that the Falcon's Nest WILL NOT be a neutral zone. To make it one would be a selfish act and not all-inclusive, as I intend it to be.

I would just allow player bases to create there own shops and taverns too allow "factions" to form. If you had business and buildings run by factions it creates conflict and plot progression. Rather than a npc player hub for people to socialize.

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We allowed them to create their own shops, at the very entrance to the slums there's a market. Nothing happened with that at all.

If you're referring to the Falcon's Nest, well. It's definitely not an NPC player hub, and we saw how active the former sewer tavern was with no one there.

This goes for the emporium as well. It centralizes roleplay too much.

Click to shrink...

Emporium is the slum equivalent of main street Regalia. I don't choose to have roleplay there, people see other people there and that is where it gravitates. And I have said it about 30 times now, with no centralization, there is not really any roleplay.


Many people would argue that centralization is beneficial to roleplay. I'm in that boat, because I've seen the activity of the slums spike in the weeks that I took over the Emporium. I appreciate the constructive nature of this post, you need to understand that having a central location is almost necessary to include people in roleplay, it's just how things work. I agree, yes, the slums is a little rough around the edges, but I took over this project only a few weeks ago. Before that, I just ran the bar.

Even though I disagree with the statements, I do agree the slums need some fixing, but spreading out the RP is not the option you're looking for.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what I do as the moderator of the slums, it matters what the players do. I can roleplay all I want in my little Tavern and try to make things as active as I can, and sure, people could enjoy it, buttttt if players want something different they are free to make it happen on their own, without my interference.

 

[Conflee]

Restoring the sewers is a no. Re-separating the worlds would be so counterintuitive to what the slums attempt to do that literally months of work would go down the drain. Roleplay is always separated between Slum-Noble-Commoner, but with everything in one world, that rift is a little less wide. The guards can raid the slums, the slum-people can defend their home, so on. The sewers was almost like it was an entirely different world in itself. Which was a catch 22.

Click to shrink...

It would be interesting to see teleports in tunnels used to connect the Harbor and Slums to try to give crime RPers an easier path into the city (rather than the massive, destroyed gate that leads to a major roadway with several government function buildings dotted on the path to anything that is even remotely 'prey'. It might as well be a seperate world with that in the way, its a wall of 'nope'.)

Click to shrink...

Slightly off topic of the main post a bit but anything on this? Once the crime system is stable again and kicking up some dust one of the big hopes I have is starting crap with the City Proper again, but to simplify what I wrote out on it above: Basically I think having one main gate out of the slums leading to a major, wide open road dotted with official buildings is a bit of a wall seperating Criminals from the city by intimidation, even though I know thats not the intent.

 

[ZZaque]

Slightly off topic of the main post a bit but anything on this? Once the crime system is stable again and kicking up some dust one of the big hopes I have is starting crap with the City Proper again, but to simplify what I wrote out on it above: Basically I think having one main gate out of the slums leading to a major, wide open road dotted with official buildings is a bit of a wall seperating Criminals from the city by intimidation, even though I know thats not the intent.

Click to shrink...

I will review this with the World Staff and see if I can come up with a solution, or install the solution you've provided.

 

[Zacatero]

While it makes sense for centralized roleplay to be devastating, in practice it's so necessary. Just take a look at factions as a comparison. If you have a faction with multiple cities, that are separate from each other, one of them just won't be used as much. Regalia is so large, and our player base, as great as it is, is not large enough for every place to be used. So if there wasn't a centralized place for everybody to go check for, then the entire city wouldn't be used.

 

[Sozzer]

Restoring the sewers is a no. Re-separating the worlds would be so counterintuitive to what the slums attempt to do that literally months of work would go down the drain. Roleplay is always separated between Slum-Noble-Commoner, but with everything in one world, that rift is a little less wide. The guards can raid the slums, the slum-people can defend their home, so on. The sewers was almost like it was an entirely different world in itself. Which was a catch 22.

Click to shrink...

The problem here is twofold - for one, the slums attempted to mend that divide. They didn't succeed, to be frank, aside from making guards able to raid, which could be done by just adding the same exceptions to the "no guards in the sewers" rule as there are for guards in the slums. And for another, saying that months of work would go down the drain is rather missing the point. The same thing happened with the shift to the slums. But if it didn't solve the problem, and it brought some of its own, why should that be any more important than it was when replacing the newsewer with it?

The Gang system had died and Slum roleplay ground to almost a halt. The Emporium makes the slums have people, you can tell the difference from when it is and isn't manned.

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Frankly, I think you're mistaking my disdain for centralised RP locations with crime as disdain for the emporium specifically. As for telling the difference when it's manned, that's because it's forced as the main location for crime RP. If people don't see anyone there, they assume there isn't roleplay anywhere, and they ditch.

The fact of the matter is, when someone logs on they don't want to run around in circles looking for three people in a circle to roleplay with. There's certain areas that have to be established as places to conduct roleplay. The Golden Willow is one such place, the Falcon's Nest is another, if you don't have places like this you have a situation in which someone logs on, sees no one, and logs off. Then that cycle continues. The roleplay 'pocket' system isn't viable, as exemplified as the time between the Emporium's activity coming to a peak and the Gang system falling showed.

Click to shrink...

The "pocket" system doesn't work with a place as large, winding, and same-y as the slums. That's entirely true. But it worked with the sewers, and the newsewers to a lesser extent. Roleplay bubbled up in random locations, and when it died down on one place it bubbled up in another. The reason this cycle's in place to begin with is, as I said before, because there's this one place treated as the only place crime rp occurs.

In other news, the Crime System is being worked on. I took @Conflee 's suggestions and will be further dissecting them along with my own ideas to create something that is.. more inclusive than the other system. That's not one of those 'it's just two months away' sort of things. Though, it might actually be two months away, I have no time frame on it. But know that I keep my promises. I've released Slum Bases, with the hope that it would be enticing for some smaller groups to take a foothold in the slums, but to no avail. But wouldn't you agree that having a working crime system is a little more important than a couple of bases that no one roleplays in and even if they are, isolates RP? I would.

Click to shrink...

Gonna be blunt here. This isn't really relevant to the topic at hand. None of what's being said here is at all exclusive of the ideas I put forward, and indeed for the most part it's wholly independent of my suggestions. I'm also not sure it's a good idea to have someone who's involved in the scene be running it, which isn't just aimed at you - I've voiced before that I don't agree with the conflict of interest that situation creates.

If you're referring to the Falcon's Nest, well. It's definitely not an NPC player hub, and we saw how active the former sewer tavern was with no one there.

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If you mean the former slum tavern, yes, there was nobody there. There was also RP popping up around the slums, though not that frequently due to the low population and oversized nature of the place. The NPC-run sewer tavern was quite effective.

Many people would argue that centralization is beneficial to roleplay. I'm in that boat, because I've seen the activity of the slums spike in the weeks that I took over the Emporium. I appreciate the constructive nature of this post, you need to understand that having a central location is almost necessary to include people in roleplay, it's just how things work. I agree, yes, the slums is a little rough around the edges, but I took over this project only a few weeks ago. Before that, I just ran the bar.

Even though I disagree with the statements, I do agree the slums need some fixing, but spreading out the RP is not the option you're looking for.

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Honestly? It is. When it was the case, it encouraged conflict and gangs, it made territory actually matter, etc. Without it, territory is meaningless and arbitrary because there's only one place that anything happens. The slums spiked in activity from your perspective, but bluntly I didn't see any larger number of people than there was beforehand, they're just all in one place so it seems larger. Frankly, I watched the rest of the slums drop from decent activity to zero activity in the time since the Emporium started up.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter what I do as the moderator of the slums, it matters what the players do. I can roleplay all I want in my little Tavern and try to make things as active as I can, and sure, people could enjoy it, buttttt if players want something different they are free to make it happen on their own, without my interference.

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Except it does matter what the staff members running the thing do. Very much so. Because a lot of people take the word of staff as just being the way things have to be, so when there's a staff-run place that's treated as a hotspot even when it's first opened and has no activity? It's forced to become one. Players can't make something different happen, because if there's a player-run option and a server-backed option, the latter is going to come out on top, every time. It has more support, and the staff involvement gives it more validity that the player-run alternative just can't provide.

A second thing I'd like to add is that the Falcon's Nest WILL NOT be a neutral zone. To make it one would be a selfish act and not all-inclusive, as I intend it to be.

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And now, I'm going to call your bluff on this. Anything run by an actual played character IC is inherently not a neutral zone unless forced as one - and that's what you've been doing, largely. The main cause of conflict between the Falcon's Nest and the Circle - which I'm forced to use as an example despite my running it because it's the only sizeable played gang at the moment, and as a result the only group that's really openly in conflict with the Nest - is that Ehrendil is absolutely diehard stubborn, refusing to cooperate even with a blade at his throat, and you then support that by using the OOC weight of your statements to back his actions. The only way to respond to this is by either giving up and leaving it alone because going there has no reason to lead to anything but more conflict, or continue doing the same thing over and over while achieving nothing. I've tried the latter, and now I'm doing the former, and since it's the main hotspot my entire gang's had to drop to effectively 0 activity.
This just makes one single place the only territory that matters, and it's controlled by the character of the person who's running the slums OOC, and so can simply force any conflict with them to be stopped. So long as the person running something has an IC stake in it, there's a conflict of interest that's just not going to be resolved, and this is no different.

 

[Deadfoe51]

The problem here is twofold - for one, the slums attempted to mend that divide. They didn't succeed, to be frank, aside from making guards able to raid, which could be done by just adding the same exceptions to the "no guards in the sewers" rule as there are for guards in the slums.

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As a rather active guard character I actually find the slums to be preferable over the sewers, even if you were to add changes or exceptions and what-have-you. It's right there, you can patrol right up to gates and peek in, you can shout at people on the other side, you can have pissing contests, all sorts of things. Big events, like the siege or running in to rescue people, and the like are just easier to organize and pull off because it's right there out in the open there's a nice space, etc. It's not this whole in the ground to a different and really cramped dimension that just makes to not want to bother. It isn't so much that us guards couldn't have gone down into the sewers and done big things, we could've we just didn't bother due to the circumstances and the area that it was. The slums is just more convenient and I beg to differ that it didn't mend the divide. It makes interacting easier, more convenient, and actually wanting to do something with it more prevalent. I've seen this all-over, you never saw nearly as much interest in the sewers because we were content to just leave you all down there and not bother.

And for another, saying that months of work would go down the drain is rather missing the point. The same thing happened with the shift to the slums. But if it didn't solve the problem, and it brought some of its own, why should that be any more important than it was when replacing the newsewer with it?

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I don't think encouraging even more work to be done is a great or very productive idea, especially using "the same thing happened with the other one". It's just encouraging to remove all of the current properties and go through the entire process all over again. Removing all that work, which took a very long time regardless, and then you'll have to evict every single person from the slums just as you did the sewers. I don't think it's worth it.

The "pocket" system doesn't work with a place as large, winding, and same-y as the slums. That's entirely true. But it worked with the sewers, and the newsewers to a lesser extent. Roleplay bubbled up in random locations, and when it died down on one place it bubbled up in another. The reason this cycle's in place to begin with is, as I said before, because there's this one place treated as the only place crime rp occurs.

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By all means from what I've seen of the slums there's been pockets here and there, and there has been a big crowd of people in one place all by the whims of the people. This can be witnessed everywhere, even if there might be a central location that's general preferred such as a tavern. This includes the sewers, but from what I witnessed of the majority of the sewers was either people in the sewer tavern, or people hiding away in their bases. There were only occasional pockets of people dotted here and there depending on the day, which just like what you can find now.

Honestly? It is. When it was the case, it encouraged conflict and gangs, it made territory actually matter, etc. Without it, territory is meaningless and arbitrary because there's only one place that anything happens. The slums spiked in activity from your perspective, but bluntly I didn't see any larger number of people than there was beforehand, they're just all in one place so it seems larger. Frankly, I watched the rest of the slums drop from decent activity to zero activity in the time since the Emporium started up.

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I actually think you're getting it a bit mixed up on this one, it's not so much that territory mattered but that groups all huddled in their bases and cliques and RPed with one another. To actually have anything 'meaningful' or entertaining go down you'd have to go piss someone off and then raid their base to satisfy yourself or your need to feel powerful. Oftentimes however, this created conflict OOC because there usually wasn't any sort of communication involved and was just running up and slamming the other person. I don't think going back to this would do anyone any favours. You could easily get gang wars and conflict going by open communication OOCly to set something up, or just making it personal in the tavern and then seeing that it gets dragged into something bigger. This can be all the more supplemented by a proper system, which from what I've seen, is in the works.

Except it does matter what the staff members running the thing do. Very much so. Because a lot of people take the word of staff as just being the way things have to be, so when there's a staff-run place that's treated as a hotspot even when it's first opened and has no activity? It's forced to become one. Players can't make something different happen, because if there's a player-run option and a server-backed option, the latter is going to come out on top, every time. It has more support, and the staff involvement gives it more validity that the player-run alternative just can't provide.

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This kind of mindset is what makes running a player-run establishment or organization almost impossible. You're killing any sort incentive, motivation, or chance to get up and running by just saying "It's impossible because a staff-run organization will always outdo me". By you thinking this, it also gets other players thinking about it and thinking that they don't have a chance either, causing a ripple effect of people who just automatically believe it won't work. It takes actually realizing that it's not true and trying to get something off the ground to make it successful. Organizations or running a place of any sort takes a great deal of time and dedication, it also requires you to constantly be active to ensure it's maintained. There are numerous players who have done this, some have been so good at this that they later get granted an establishment by staff, or even become staff themselves because of their constant dedication. Another example just organization-wise, the Violet order and the Vigilant Shield. Both are official organizations, but one is run by a staff member, and the other is ran by a player. Both are successful, but the Vigilant Shield isn't strangled and completely unable to compete or do anything just because players see the Violets are run by a staff member.

And now, I'm going to call your bluff on this. Anything run by an actual played character IC is inherently not a neutral zone unless forced as one - and that's what you've been doing, largely. The main cause of conflict between the Falcon's Nest and the Circle - which I'm forced to use as an example despite my running it because it's the only sizeable played gang at the moment, and as a result the only group that's really openly in conflict with the Nest - is that Ehrendil is absolutely diehard stubborn, refusing to cooperate even with a blade at his throat, and you then support that by using the OOC weight of your statements to back his actions. The only way to respond to this is by either giving up and leaving it alone because going there has no reason to lead to anything but more conflict, or continue doing the same thing over and over while achieving nothing. I've tried the latter, and now I'm doing the former, and since it's the main hotspot my entire gang's had to drop to effectively 0 activity.
This just makes one single place the only territory that matters, and it's controlled by the character of the person who's running the slums OOC, and so can simply force any conflict with them to be stopped. So long as the person running something has an IC stake in it, there's a conflict of interest that's just not going to be resolved, and this is no different.

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Now, I'm just going to provide mostly outside input because I'm not the most knowledgeable person out there. Perhaps the problems you're facing are because you assume it can be done just like it was in the sewers, and I don't think it can be. Running in and just trying to raid something whilst there's just a bartender and some totally unrelated people enjoying drinks just won't work. You'll end up just scaring those drinkers away, and the bartender ends up getting ganked by a group of void-worshippers while he was just trying to do his job. The Falcon's Nest serves a sort of multi-purpose role, by the way I look at it, and that means running in there guns blazing (while it could make perfect sense ICly) just won't work. You need to sit down with the person and charge and organize something, this gives both sides the chance to organize something that can be fun, and it also means hard feelings can perhaps be avoided. Once the organized date comes around, it can be all RPed out as you'd like, allowing the uninvolved drinkers a chance to watch, or perhaps even get themselves involved in someway. I think this beats "LEEERROOOOOY JEEENKIIIIINS" and charging in to stab the bartender with a pointy stick.

To sum things up a bit and add my general opinion about it, I don't think the slums need to be replaced. I do agree from what I've seen of it that it could use tweaks and improvements. However, I think the biggest improvement that should be made is the attitude and mentality of the players and this can apply to more than just the slums. Sometimes spontaneous things happen and they can go really well and be fun for everyone, that's not a bad thing. Things can also be organized, talked through, a date set, and then things can be RPed out as whatever anyone wants, that's not bad either. Organization, talking things through, it's not something that should be seen as boring or should be avoided, rather as something necessary that can bring a whole lot of fun if done right and willingly. If you put in proper time and effort, it will be repaid tenfold for everyone involved. This has been proven numerous times and continues to happen all over the place, you just have to be willing to start putting that effort in and sticking it out, even if it gets difficult. Look past your differences, write a few words and ask nicely if you can talk over setting something up together, then things can go from there. That applies to everything and can do a whole lot of good to providing more activity and more fun for everyone involved rather than solely relying on staff because you lack faith in your own abilities.

 

[Conflee]

WARNING: Large Af image.

Spoiler: My Rough "Activity Map"

Spoiler: Simi related to the main post as a 'fix' for sameyness and the 'sea of housing' issues.

I tend to check Dynmap once every hour or so even when I am not roleplaying, just to see if any gathering are happening etc that might be interesting (which I guess is technically speaking metagaming but its for the same of getting into Rp rather than serving an actual IC goal so I figured eh probably allowed) ANYWAY, this is a rough rough map of player activity areas that I tend to notice. Green is Fairly Active (usually at least one to three good sized gatherings a day), Yellow is Low Activity (One gathering every day or two) and Red is Zero Activity or Only One Person (meaning these areas are, as far as Dynmap shows which granted isnt 100% perfect, essentially unused anymore. Some used to be active, but they arent now.)

The largest areas of activity are, as I guess can be expected, around the gate or easy to access from the gate, with the two oddities being the southern areas flanking the Tree. Im not sure why people gather there so often but I see groups of 3-4 there consistently. The area outside the Gutter also sees a decent amount of activity for some reason, maybe because its secluded with nice seating and fires etc.

This is based on times I am awake and home on work days, which is from roughly 5pm GMT to 9pm GMT plus all day more or less on days off. And my schedule isnt set as far as days go so its sporadic enough it should cover and be consistent.


My personal take on this (based on my ideas above way up about wiping and remaking some areas) would be Red Areas need make more open to encourage fights to be arranged (OOCly) there. Yellow areas need to be made more appealing, by remodeling them to look more unique, and Green areas should probably be made ever so slightly more spacious if cramped.

EDIT: As a few loosely related things also- Firstly sorry for replying so many times to this thread. I have always prefered Crime RP to Daily Life RP because it feels more high-stakes and interesting to me, so I have a lot of opinions and thoughts on possible systems, observations, ideas, etc. But also I felt the need to reiterate that my 'activity map' is not going to be 100% accurate, its just a rough estimate. Some players have dynmap turned off so they dont show up on it, and some areas have enough overhangs that they dont show players on the map at all.

I am also not 100% opposed to less centralized RP, eventually. The main issue at the moment is that Free Form RP needs a higher player count to really be majorly effective. It worked to an extent during the rise the Great Gangs when tons of people were interested and active, but as time passed it faded until, to an outside observer, Crime looked dead. Of course, being IN the system I knew that the activity was most of a more subtle sort, meetings between gangs and such, but those in the system dont need convinced to join. Those outside it do. So having things looking dead to them only furthered the issue. So, for now, im in favor of centralizing RP and then branching out once the activity of players has raised more significantly. When that happens I still think Bases will end up becoming sub-Central Locations, but it wont be as bad as it was right after Gangs died.

 

[ZZaque]

The problem here is twofold - for one, the slums attempted to mend that divide. They didn't succeed, to be frank, aside from making guards able to raid, which could be done by just adding the same exceptions to the "no guards in the sewers" rule as there are for guards in the slums. And for another, saying that months of work would go down the drain is rather missing the point. The same thing happened with the shift to the slums. But if it didn't solve the problem, and it brought some of its own, why should that be any more important than it was when replacing the newsewer with it?

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Switching back to the Sewers would bring it's own problems. The answer is no.

Gonna be blunt here. This isn't really relevant to the topic at hand. None of what's being said here is at all exclusive of the ideas I put forward, and indeed for the most part it's wholly independent of my suggestions. I'm also not sure it's a good idea to have someone who's involved in the scene be running it, which isn't just aimed at you - I've voiced before that I don't agree with the conflict of interest that situation creates.

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This paragraph wasn't (mostly) aimed at addressing you. It was addressing some of the other people's stuff, as well as your apparent claim that everything is always 'just a couple weeks away' or 'just a month away'. It was originally supposed to be the last paragraph before I decided to add on. I should have made it last again after I added on. You claim I'm involved in the scene, but I haven't done anything gang-y in weeks. Nor would I be involved ICly in the new crime system. The Falcon's Nest collectively agreed we just want to be a bar, so that is the direction I took because that's the roleplay my employees look for.

Honestly? It is. When it was the case, it encouraged conflict and gangs, it made territory actually matter, etc. Without it, territory is meaningless and arbitrary because there's only one place that anything happens. The slums spiked in activity from your perspective, but bluntly I didn't see any larger number of people than there was beforehand, they're just all in one place so it seems larger. Frankly, I watched the rest of the slums drop from decent activity to zero activity in the time since the Emporium started up.

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Your arbitrary territory issue is going to be addressed when the revision of the crime system is released.

Except it does matter what the staff members running the thing do. Very much so. Because a lot of people take the word of staff as just being the way things have to be, so when there's a staff-run place that's treated as a hotspot even when it's first opened and has no activity? It's forced to become one. Players can't make something different happen, because if there's a player-run option and a server-backed option, the latter is going to come out on top, every time. It has more support, and the staff involvement gives it more validity that the player-run alternative just can't provide.

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How can a staff run place be a hotspot when it first opens and has no activity? It can't. You discredit the long hours I put in and the people that I hired to make that place into what it is. Without activity the Emporium would be the same as any other place. Empty. My blue name means nothing in the case of making a hotspot and your mentality is ignorant. The tavern is the only staff-run place in the Emporium, and the Fight Pit has actually turned out to be more popular. That's player run. One of the most successful businesses in the history of Regalia was player run, the Merrit Apothecary.

If the players don't want to roleplay in the Emporium, they can do that. That's what it comes down to.

 

[Sozzer]

Switching back to the Sewers would bring it's own problems. The answer is no.

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Frankly, I can't think of any real problems it brings that don't remain in place with the slums, barring the issues involved with evicting players. It's also less laggy, less samey, and significantly more suited to actual conflict between gangs. Unless those issues are resolved within the slums somehow, the newsewer world is likely to remain the better option in the eyes of a lot of people, me included.

This paragraph wasn't (mostly) aimed at addressing you. It was addressing some of the other people's stuff, as well as your apparent claim that everything is always 'just a couple weeks away' or 'just a month away'. It was originally supposed to be the last paragraph before I decided to add on. I should have made it last again after I added on. You claim I'm involved in the scene, but I haven't done anything gang-y in weeks. Nor would I be involved ICly in the new crime system. The Falcon's Nest collectively agreed we just want to be a bar, so that is the direction I took because that's the roleplay my employees look for.

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You are, whether you consider yourself such or not. You have previously interacted with the various groups involved in crime, and continue to for that matter. Not only that, but your character runs the place that serves as the hotspot for the slums, which as a result is also the hotspot for crime RP. Just because you aren't running a gang doesn't mean you aren't involved, and as I'm going to explain in the next bit, even assuming the absolute best of intentions and constant second-guessing your own decisions to try to eliminate any trace of bias, that conflict of interest makes it incredibly troubling for you to design or run the system alone, or with close friends.

Your arbitrary territory issue is going to be addressed when the revision of the crime system is released.

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I don't think this is going to work out, to be honest with you. A system for some of the larger gangs is one thing, but something pinning down territory in any sort of predetermined fashion, especially if it's being run by someone who regularly has IC interactions with the groups involved, is going to end up working out badly. The latter point is particularly important - as I've stated several times now, the conflict of interest that creates is an issue, and even with the best intentions unconscious bias still creates a problem which, due to its nature, can't be either mitigated or clearly proven to have an influence on a given decision. It'd be heavily advisable to do what the noble system did and have multiple people managing it, as a single person doing so is liable to cause issues. I'd also argue that speaking to the various people who are heavily involved in the crime/gang scene would be a good idea, since making the system without consulting them on things can't work out well. Keeping it as something only discussed internally by a few staff members, or the members of one or two cliques, is a bad idea. Please note that I'm not saying cliques as a negative thing here - it's just referring to social circles, which obviously will tend toward similar opinions and ideas, hence the need to spread things out across as many as possible.
Another thing is that gangs don't have any formal structure - they could be as simple as a couple of characters with no organisation who just beat people up and take their belongings, or they could be sizeable, organised, and well-equipped criminal syndicates. Each is a gang, but the former is unlikely to be considered by a crime system, as they have no formalised income, structure, or territory. They're able to remain perfectly valid despite being much more varied than anything encompassed by a single system anywhere else on the server, and trying to take on an approach that covers everyone doesn't really work as a result. Even if it does, it would take an utterly insane amount of time and effort to design and run it. Not only that, but unlike nobility you can't force people to use the system to be part of things. If someone decides not to participate and declares that their group is a gang anyway, there's just no way to stop them.

How can a staff run place be a hotspot when it first opens and has no activity? It can't. You discredit the long hours I put in and the people that I hired to make that place into what it is. Without activity the Emporium would be the same as any other place. Empty. My blue name means nothing in the case of making a hotspot and your mentality is ignorant. The tavern is the only staff-run place in the Emporium, and the Fight Pit has actually turned out to be more popular. That's player run. One of the most successful businesses in the history of Regalia was player run, the Merrit Apothecary.

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Wasn't it started up to, and I quote, "gravitate slum rp to the Dark Lady Emporium"? Indeed, the Emporium had an explicit rule put in place enforcing activity to serve that purpose. It's hard to deny this is a major reason it became a centralised hotspot; it was outright designed for that purpose. I'm not attempting to discredit the activity of you or others, and I respect the work you put in to keep it running, but the tavern's not the sole reason it's a hotspot, nor was it the main reason it was able to get off the ground as quickly and effectively as it did. As another note, how it's ignorant to state that the place designed to be a hotspot and labeled as the hotspot for the slums was able to get off the ground far more easily because of that, I'm not quite sure. Player-run businesses without a staff supported location to be placed in have consistently failed, with only a handful of exceptions.

If the players don't want to roleplay in the Emporium, they can do that. That's what it comes down to.

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They can - so long as they don't mind being there alone or with only some OOC friends, as the Emporium is the designated hotspot. Because it's the hotspot, people go there to find others. Because people go there to find others, it's the hotspot. If you try to RP somewhere else, you can take it as almost a given that the only people you'll be roleplaying with are friends who you asked to come there and roleplay with you.

 

[InDogsWeTrust]

Regalia is so large, and our player base, as great as it is, is not large enough for every place to be used

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I wouldn't mind if the city was half the size iy is now. I get that making it sprawling is "realistic" but its literally a ghost town most of the time. I love the architecture, dont get me wrong. Its beautiful. But, I think this whole argument would be null and void if everything (not just the slums) were closer together. idk. just my opinion.

 

[Mandyy_]

I wouldn't mind if the city was half the size iy is now. I get that making it sprawling is "realistic" but its literally a ghost town most of the time. I love the architecture, dont get me wrong. Its beautiful. But, I think this whole argument would be null and void if everything (not just the slums) were closer together. idk. just my opinion.

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I actually agree with this, it would be nice to maybe in the slums have a neighborhood where you could easily rp with neighbors instead of your slums house being just for decoration. But its kinda hard since everyone is spread out throughout the place.

 

[Anseran]

The age-old argument of how to produce roleplay surfaces once more.​

Many of the player-base who used to call the sewer their main area have moved into characters that focus on government or guard roleplay for the sake of getting better acquainted with the bureaucratic community. I love Crime-RP, but I don't think many people are too enticed by what that means in terms of consequence. The gangs aren't armed to the teeth like the Guard are, in fact the Slums are literal Slums. This ain't no place for no Hero, but it doesn't take a Hero to steal stuff or set up crime networks. The Guard are organised, capable, and tough, as they should be. They're effective at what they do, but when Staff are in these orders, or run these orders, it puts them under the limelight - These are the good guys, this is where you want to be for roleplay recognition, and this is the side who are likely to win.

Hence, I don't blame people for migrating to the main Regalian-Commoner streets to try and make something good of their character. Both the Slums and Regalia have a tavern - A place where Crimelord can take on new degenerates, or a place where a Noble can bestow faith into an urchin to rise up. What reward do Gangs get for causing Crime-RP? What motivation is there besides getting gold and rare minerals that could just be purchased easily if you made a Noble?

I'd suggest making the Slums smaller and putting more emphasis on underground happenings - It sets a better scene for Crime-RP in general as it's more protective. The sewer tavern should be down there too and be capable of housing fights with a centre on power struggles. The Mossy Poss had this system, but it was neutrally run by Lord_Immortal where people could meet and fight with preset rules, but there were more freedoms present and incentive to protect someone or attack someone through physical means. Essentially there were no guards or imposing presences that prevented people from acting however they wanted. Magic also had a large presence that distinguished if you wanted to mess with someone or not.

Likely useless stories from the past! Ciao.

 

[Conflee]

I'd suggest making the Slums smaller and putting more emphasis on underground happenings - It sets a better scene for Crime-RP in general as it's more protective. The sewer tavern should be down there too and be capable of housing fights with a centre on power struggles. The Mossy Poss had this system, but it was neutrally run by Lord_Immortal where people could meet and fight with preset rules, but there were more freedoms present and incentive to protect someone or attack someone through physical means. Essentially there were no guards or imposing presences that prevented people from acting however they wanted. Magic also had a large presence that distinguished if you wanted to mess with someone or not.

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I dont think decreasing the surface area of the slums will be constructive, but reducing the housing in it would be as i've said several times already above so I wont repeat.

Beyond that from what I am reading the Emporium isn't being enforced as neutral grounds, nor is the Falcon. And the system that I sent DrunkFailure had a few fixes to try and increase activity:

The main one being a Burglary System, where owners of Noble Houses, and Businesses in the main city can opt into a system where their establishments are at risk of pre-planned (OOCly, so both sides can be present) 'burglaries', with compensation in some form (my suggestion was a low-tier lore item that was a flier for whatever their business is). The idea being that sparking more conflict between the Slums and City Proper, while also giving Gangs tangible targets of value would be beneficial in various ways.


Generally speaking, I have faith that whatever comes out should at least help, and hey, if its not perfect it can be tweaked, and I think by now staff know not to tell anyone its being reworked until its almost at a release stage (because thats one thing I do agree with: Finding out something is 'a few months from release' kills the motivation. We found out the Slums was coming and Sewer RP died INSTANTLY and never picked back up)

 

[Beetletoes]

I wouldn't mind if the city was half the size iy is now. I get that making it sprawling is "realistic" but its literally a ghost town most of the time. I love the architecture, dont get me wrong. Its beautiful. But, I think this whole argument would be null and void if everything (not just the slums) were closer together. idk. just my opinion.

Click to shrink...

I actually agree with this, it would be nice to maybe in the slums have a neighborhood where you could easily rp with neighbors instead of your slums house being just for decoration. But its kinda hard since everyone is spread out throughout the place.

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I can definitely get behind both of these. Everything's way too spread out, and even if there were several pockets of rp spread out through the city, you'd never find them aside from people in the tavern/emporium.

 

[Anseran]

The main one being a Burglary System

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This'll be an interesting system. The Order of Bep ran many heists and made off with thousands upon thousands of Regals, also gems and some rare minerals. Really, I think Crime-RP is down to the creativity of the Criminal and it should be encouraged to say that anything is possible, with risks.

 

[Beetletoes]

Your arbitrary territory issue is going to be addressed when the revision of the crime system is released.

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This really doesn't sound like a good idea. I (and many others) like crime rp for the lack of strictness. Someone can get a few friends together and beat people up, and there you have it, a gang that provides action and entertainment. If being a gang is something you can only do with some sort of system, that'd take the fun right out of it. I'd prefer the edge-infested old sewers to some system that makes gangs like noble families.

 

[CainsTedTalk]

This really doesn't sound like a good idea. I (and many others) like crime rp for the lack of strictness. Someone can get a few friends together and beat people up, and there you have it, a gang that provides action and entertainment. If being a gang is something you can only do with some sort of system, that'd take the fun right out of it. I'd prefer the edge-infested old sewers to some system that makes gangs like noble families.

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In other words, supervision rather than direct management.

 

[Beetletoes]

In other words, supervision rather than direct management.

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Yes. Issues such as meta and powergaming ought to be kept in check, but crime, a fairly chaotic thing by nature, should not be regulated in a neat, tidy system.

 

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The reason rp happened a bit more outside the tavern in the old sewers was because of the way it was laid out. If you remember the tavern was a decent bit away from the actual sewer spawn. So when somebody was heading to the tavern they would often get into combat or conversation with people on the very cramped canals or bridges.

In the slums you spawn like 10 blocks away from the Tavern, and the roads are so wide that you don't usually get too close to other players just passing by.

 

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The sewers was almost like it was an entirely different world in itself.

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Thats the reason we liked it