Alright this is probably my last post on massive. I have nothing to lose now. The biggest issue with roleplay that I have seen hinder the player base since I started roleplaying on this server (what feels like ages ago) is that organized character development is limited to certain players and characters. If people consistently wish to play a character, oftentimes they like to see that character develop and progress towards a goal. This is fine if you play within the noble system, military, or sometimes even in a gang system. But, commoners have little to no opportunity to make any progress towards a goal (It doesn't even have to be positive progress, per say, as failure can change up a character just as much as success can). I have spoken with several members of various positions within the community regarding how they have gotten their characters to the position that they have. Most of the time I get the answer "you have to know someone/you have to know a staff member." I do not think that this is how it should be. I remember getting a player quest in 2016. I was able to take the things that I had worked for IRP and put them into actual progress for my character, outside of some organization of strict caste system. The example below was when I had a character go on a research mission to hyarroc. Even though I didn't quite grasp how the roleplay system worked at the time, I still understood that my character had done something other than bumming around, waiting for a world-wide event to happen so that he could roll the odds of getting included or not. Nowadays, if a player wants to make development towards a personal goal, they either have to make that personal goal within some sort of organization or try to make up some progress of their own. But, there is no way to back this up. Since I'm leaving anyways I'll use another character of mine as an example. Louie Louie (found here) is based around a quest to suit a woman of nobility, despite being a varran. This quest is absurd, which is why it is fairly fun to roleplay the different situations and psychological justifications that the hopeless romantic uses. I know that it isn't a good idea to develop an entire character around one main goal, which is why I've developed secondary motivations and more personality/character traits and likes about him throughout the years, which oftentimes clashed with this main goal and made for even more interesting character interactions and conflicts. Anyways, Louie Louie got an idea that he could use some sort of magic to make himself appear ailor, as to give himself a chance at suiting this woman. So, to aid towards this progress, he met up with Dr. Fong's rat character in the sewers about people of esteemed magical ability. The rat king sent him to xilthruim the lich king (played by magivore), but warned him to bring him a present, noting his particular interest in odd books. Louie then went to a bookshop that just happened to be open, trading a maiar tooth (a vital souvenir from a part of his backstory) for a crude tome of void worship. Xilthrium took this book and told him that he needed to contact a registry of the magi for the name of a white spirit mage. Louie then wrote to several spirit mages, making all sorts of contacts in the process and creating several unique roleplay scenarios (reporting the info he got back to xilthrium funnily enough), but found that there were none registered. (Louie was lying in the letter, he was really trying to find the name of a white mage so that he could seek apprenticeship-another scenario that would've likely cultivated some interesting roleplay by putting both characters in an interesting scenario) Now, there are two possible places where a player quest could be of great use, cultivating more of this sort of roleplay. The first would be to potentially find an npc spirit mage to teach him. But, what would have been ideal was, after finding all of these resources, taking them to a player quest, and getting a result. I know fully well that dressing up and disguising oneself as an ailor probably wouldn't have worked, but Louie might not have, or might have been overlooking some things. If he failed, that would've given some great character development, an ability for Louie to re-evaluate his life and maybe move on to other things, or fall into a depressive state and go to an all-time low. Under the slim likelyhood of success (noting the rolling mechanic player quests used to use), he might have wound up having his cover blown but developing a sort of "forbidden love" storyline, or maybe freaking out at the idea of having to pull the charade at a next big event, knowing the limitations of such a spell, comedy ensuing. But, the development got stumped. I wasn't sure whether to write a lore story or just say something happened, or simply remain sitting around. I even tried joining Louie into the local navy (what was called the "silver lining" at the time) under the idea that a war hero might be able to compensate for his unusual race. The system of player quests would have been great for this scenario. I loved going from place to place to work towards a main goal, even if the goal likely wouldn't have worked out. It inspired a lot of really interesting and fun roleplay along the way (Xilthrium had some very interesting and thoughtful conversation with Louie; you have to be really ignorant to not realize your motives are skewed when even the dark lord is telling you to "just be yourself"). The idea of the commoner playerbase going around and doing this is such a great idea because it would liven the server up so much. People would have more to do in taverns than just sit around and talk about local politics or try to pick up a fight for no reason. This is especially true of people who aren't in communities, like families or clubs (however rare it is for a commoner club to exist). A lack of progression options may even be the cause for the rarer races being played so little, as I may be killing the ovirran populace with my departure. The common issue with the player quest system is that it requires a lot of work by staff members. I really appreciate all of the work you guys do already in regards to planning events, running noble systems, reviewing player apps, etc. But, there has to be some sort of compromise between nothing and everything. Perhaps there are some inefficiencies (or personal problems) that are holding up the workforce. Perhaps you guys could recruit more lore staff, there are certainly a plethora of willing people who make excellent candidates. Or perhaps you guys just shift some resources towards the less cared-for player base: the commoners. I think it would help the server a great bit. P.S. Thank you to all the people on here who helped me along the way, I really appreciate all of your patience with me throughout the years. When I first joined, I was rather immature and going through some difficult time. But, as I grew more into the community, I think I figured out a lot about social norms and life in a global community. I learned a lot of lessons about life on these forums, and it helped me grow into who I am today. Sorry for all the times I hassled you guys.
Roleplay will not be handed to you on a silver plate; it isn't handed to nobility either. This comes from the perspective of someone who roleplayed a non-Ailor mercenary that arrived to the city as a bruiser selling her blood to vampires to pay of debt to the Golden Willow, then took part in wars, charters and many events, become aristocrat and join the military cabinet even (before my departure to inactivity). Now I roleplay a noblewoman and I see the perspective is exactly the same; influencing the world is just as limited as our orders are bogged down with maintenance & war while our funds are severely limited. And this here is your core issue. You do not create a character with a firm goal and end-design. You create a character with a background and ambitions and nudge them into the world. Opportunities will arise; your character will take them and their end-goal will change every week as you play them. You see some impossible and discard them.
I didn't make the entire issue around a firm goal, but instead used it as a motivation, including secondary goals. Likewise, I put a lot of effort into this idea, including going around the city, making several contacts, writing multiple letters, over a period of a few months. I don't think this would count as roleplay being handed to me on a "silver plait." I realize that some motivations should be let go of, but shouldn't you still have a main motivation to keep the character going? I'd imagine that changing a life goal every single week wouldn't add up to much and would show as inconsistent. Surely this character of yours had some underlining motivation in becoming an aristocrat, military cabinet, and wars, other than that's what they felt like doing this week. You claim that you should take opportunities, as I did on several occasions, including joining the character into the navy. The problem I'm trying to highlight is that the opportunities in the city for commoners are very limited in their scope to nobility, aristocracy, or military. There is little opportunity to make progress towards personalized goals or to follow certain ambitions.
Hey! I’m one of those people who will tell you that anything is possible for anyone. I’ve played multiple characters so far, and generally they go somewhere. Generally they’re commoners. I’ve had Karp Kippings who started as a no one, become Paladin, become guard, become guard commander, so on and so forth. From nothing but a commoner he grew and grew. I’ve had a reverend character who started as a simple old man. He was later put in charge of the Synod’s expenses and world system tithes and such. Most recently I had Vakgu(Nagrund). Who, while he was a noble, that’s not what progressed him. Behind a mask he started as a simple no one Werebeast, and within a few months he became one of the most known Werebeast leaders and was rather well known to the surface and sewers. At the end of the day I’ve played more commoners than nobles, and I’ve even played commoners who achieved nobility. If you set your mind to it you can generally accomplish your goal with enough hard work and patience. I hate to think someone is leaving the server for getting stuck in a hole. So, hopefully you end up sticking around and just going about things in a different way. The common man can achieve a lot. On progressions and things like that players do have access to them, you simply need some form of funding. It isn’t free to go traveling the world. That’s where befriending nobility is good.
You created a character with background A and goal B. You went around pursuing goal B. You couldn't do much. Thus the character felt empty. What I am telling you is to create a character with background A, B and C. Go around the city, meet people, find opportunities and get involved. Then you'll have your goals ready and set, some you can pursue. Example. I want to roleplay a old general in the style of von Lettow (my first char attempt on the server). Their background is clear, their goal is clear; to become the best general. I join the marshal cabined and because von Lettow is a new regalian moustached conservative he'd be seated right in. Then it's over. Because right now, there are no wars or conflicts the cabinet participates in. I made a character with a goal that is incompatible and detached from the server as it stands right now. Instead, I changed von Lettow into a songaskia with lots of backstory and made her simple goal to "get by". And by waltzing around the city, she got involved with a war where she was employed. Invited to aid guards, who then invited her to join the guard charter. So on, so on. The only and main issue you can face with the latter is people being closed-up in their cliques. Yes, it is true. Certain players / characters are ridiculously hard to reach - even worse when you hinge on them for a license, application, deal or approval. But once more; you can just change and go another way if you are flexible enough. In short, be flexible and be extroverted and anything is possible. Chap's above comment resonates with me b/c I saw his character do his rise and fame parallel to my own.
The issue with this is that your character still had a viable outlet to eventually pursue, through military. Sure, a character can wait around in between wars, but there usually is another war happening in just under a year that you can rely on. There are guilds and organizations for military characters. A scholar character, on the other hand, would have none of this. They could pursue other avenues, like motives B and C, but they would never have a viable option to make progress as a scholar, i.e. publishing a paper. Even if such a scholar was sponsored by a noble, there would still be no way to ground the progress that this character is making. Sure, you can be flexible or choose different motives while you wait for progress, but certain motivations simply aren't viable because the roleplay system does not support them; there aren't groups or staff-created systems in place to measure success.
I'm playing a scholar character right now and it's only laziness on my part that the open avenue hasn't been published yet. It exists between characters, though. https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/wissenschlacht-a-treatise-on-field-alchemy.85457/ https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/wissenschlacht-a-treatise-on-naval-aviation.85213/ https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/a-theology-of-bodily-nature.85434/ One question here: Do you seek character development, or do you seek character gratification?
This publication is pretty cool, I haven't seen anything like it before that's lasted very long, I've actually made multiple scholar characters throughout the years that have pretty much flopped instantly because publications like this didn't exist. But still, are any of these publications assured canon? How would new research be published in this publication if there is no avenue of canon research? Also, the player run organizations cannot account for most avenue a character would like to take, especially for things that would take place outside of regalia. A player quest system probably could. Like in the example of a research player quest I attached above. Here, players can say that they made progress and then put it in a publication such as this. In fact, this sort of publication didn't exist when I did the initial player quest, so it didn't really encourage much roleplay. As for character development versus gratification, these things come hand in hand. A character can develop from gratification or a lack of it. But an inability to confirm any sort of gratification or lack of it can lead to little character development.
Op isn't interested in a discussion, more explaining why they are leaving, so this is being posted less for posterity for OP, but more for everyone else. I drew up a quick diagram: Example A: The player engages in an Action with the World. The world forces a reaction on other Players. Other players return Development to the Player The reason why this example does not work is because there is isolation in the actions between the player and the world, to the other players. Other players "don't care" about the actions of the player, and as such will not care about the world's reaction. Players hoping the world will solve their activity can't succeed, because there is Isolation between them and other players. Example B: The player engages with other players with actions. The other players react to the actions inflicted on them. The player experiences Development from reactions. The reason why this example does not work is because there is Isolation between the actions of the player, and the world. Example B is a great activity if you want to do personal RP on the sidelines while waiting for events/progressions, but they cannot ever satisfy players alone, because they do not give a sense of "development" in the wider world. Like the character does not matter in the world. Example C: The player creates a group, and through that group interacts with another group. The other group reacts back, and the interaction between them is also reacted to by the World. The world's response and the situation of group reaction is development for the original group. This is a workable scenario because there is no Isolation. World, Player, and Group all interact with each other and so there is meaningful impact to their actions, and there is stuff to do. Example D: Each group interacts with an intermediary system. The system reacts to the world. The world reacts back to the groups, which becomes development. This is a workable scenario because there is no isolation. World, Player, and Group all interact with each other and so there is meaningful impact to their actions, and there is stuff to do. So what can we conclude? Inter-character goals are great, but they don't fully satisfy world interactions. Players doing quests with the world without engaging other players does not satisfy, because players won't have incentive to care about the Player's actions and so there is no meaningful interaction with other players to satisfy acknowledgement. Group RP is in almost all cases better than Solo-Rp. If you are a loner both OOC and IC, chances are you won't get many satisfying accomplishments or engagements, because groups roleplay as groups. What can I reflect on OP? OP did not know about the Garden of Everchange which changes races, which he would have known if he engaged more with other players instead of letter rp. Op tried to get involved with the Silver Lining Fleet, but did not engage enough with other players to understand that the Silver Lining Fleet was an inactive group of players who barely played on the server, and were in and of themselves very isolated until some of them quit, and others joined the Noble System. Op also had goals that had no relation to ongoing world developments, in a way, the character existed in a tone deaf manner to the world at large which means that all their interactions aren't relevant to bystanders, which against does not result in accomplishments from a world perspective, or acknowledgement from fellow roleplayers. Op gave up after the first roadblock, instead of widening the search vectors. What can we conclude? Join groups. But join active groups. Become invested in what your group's goals are, not how you can use your group. Engage with lots of players. Don't self isolate. Widen your search by forcing yourself to engage with people you often avoid. Don't give up after the first roadblock. Widen your search. Massive lore provides dozens of alternatives for those who try. I have never encountered a player problem that could not be solved by encouraging the player to reset their interaction protocols and widen their roleplay nets, engaging with more people. Alternatively, I have never encountered a player problem that could not be solved by recommending the player to be less focused on their own character and show interest in other characters every once in a while to build bonds, who then return the favor and progress their character in return.
