The Concept Of Being Raided

[BenRekt]

Recently, there has been a lot of talk about being raided, and how there are absolutely no negative consequences for not defending yourself or any real positive effects from successfully raiding anyone.

Just looking at other people's opinion, I just have to ask a simple question that basically came up in @Mafrorific post which is -

The concept of allowing yourself to be victimized is now the norm in terms of how RP / Non-PvP factions act in response to being raided. This act is completely encouraged due to the fact that there are absolutely no repercussions for not defending yourself, which is why I sometimes wonder why MassiveCraft is advertised as a "Factions" or even a "PvP" server, when it seems like a lot players are being very outspoken about the fact that that they never want to defend themselves and don't plan on ever defending themselves as well. Instead it seems like they make the "argument" that because they cannot compete, there should be no competition in the first place. Also, it would be foolish of me not to admit, there is no easy solution to something that is so hardwired into the server that it may never be fixed, but if we never actually implement anything and give it a try we will never even know.

I just remembered when players, such as myself, would defend their faction no matter what, even with no McMMO levels trained and no Premium. Hell, back then I was really terrible at PvP but I still tried. I guess I'm just kind of a combination of being sad, frustrated and nostalgic now that people just give up instantly whenever there is a challenge.

Sorry for the rant, but it seems like making a rant post about issues is mainly the only way to ever get anything changed here on MassiveCraft, examples being Joshy54100's "Change" post a while back as well as others that express a need for change for other causes.

Also, this is not meant to be disrespectful to anyone, as we are all players on the same server and I believe all of us are looking for what's best for the server, and it's growth.

Tagging some people whose opinions I value and would want to hear from
Feel free to provide your own as well if you were not tagged, sorry if I forgot anyone (Obviously)
@thor5648 @qgmk @Wannag @ForsakenSlayer @Sevak @Shaneski101 @DarShauwn @ @Gethelp @jquaile @morrc5 @Traxex20 @MagicalWetToast @SwiftPvP @Tokugawryuu @_pingz_ @Waminer @ @desert_eagle98 @JakkDhread @kevencolis

 

[Miracle678]

I remember when i used to defend with harming and poison pots ... Ah those were the days

 

[Oxoman]

I just remembered when players, such as myself, would defend their faction no matter what, even with no McMMO levels trained and no Premium. Hell, back then I was really terrible at PvP but I still tried. I guess I'm just kind of a combination of being sad, frustrated and nostalgic now that people just give up instantly whenever there is a challenge.

Click to shrink...

I think these people still exist, just they get totally steam-rolled so you guys don't even notice it. Heck, I haven't left Regalia for more than a month now, but it was only a little while before that I stood up to the ranks of Magnanimus only to get totally flattened. They probably don't even remember me, that's the thing.

You haven't really made a specific point to agree or disagree with though. The problem with a lot of these rant posts is that you're not offering us any focussed feedback. I understand what you're saying, but saying you want change isn't enough. What do you want to change? As an RPer, I think there needs to be more focus on PvP, and the staff clearly agree too, we just need to get a better idea of what the problems are.

Back onto the general topic of the post. The problem that these people face is that they don't want to defend or can't defend, usually both. Sure, you say they can give it a try, and maybe they should. That's where we should incentivise defense. It's unfair to punish people who don't want to get involved, but getting people involved is great! For people who don't want to defend, perhaps you should simply leave them alone. It seems a bit silly to expect someone to walk out their door and die. Sadly, this is one area in which my knowledge of PvP is rather lacking, so my contribution is poorly reasoned. However, the impression I get is that 'raiding' is typically referring to turning up to a small faction that you know you can defeat simply for some freebies. Could it be that the choice of faction is the problem? These factions are going to lose, and there's no question about it. They're often non-prem, so it seems pointless leaving their houses to lose all their stuff. What if you raided a faction with a bunch of PvPers online, maybe you'd get some loot, maybe you wouldn't, but they sure as heck would fight back.

If someone from the PvP world can enlighten me, that'd be great. I just think that maybe you're choosing the wrong targets. In general, people don't leave their houses for a massacre.

 

[TheSilverSpectre]

I think these people still exist, just they get totally steam-rolled so you guys don't even notice it. Heck, I haven't left Regalia for more than a month now, but it was only a little while before that I stood up to the ranks of Magnanimus only to get totally flattened. They probably don't even remember me, that's the thing.

You haven't really made a specific point to agree or disagree with though. The problem with a lot of these rant posts is that you're not offering us any focussed feedback. I understand what you're saying, but saying you want change isn't enough. What do you want to change? As an RPer, I think there needs to be more focus on PvP, and the staff clearly agree too, we just need to get a better idea of what the problems are.

Back onto the general topic of the post. The problem that these people face is that they don't want to defend or can't defend, usually both. Sure, you say they can give it a try, and maybe they should. That's where we should incentivise defense. It's unfair to punish people who don't want to get involved, but getting people involved is great! For people who don't want to defend, perhaps you should simply leave them alone. It seems a bit silly to expect someone to walk out their door and die. Sadly, this is one area in which my knowledge of PvP is rather lacking, so my contribution is poorly reasoned. However, the impression I get is that 'raiding' is typically referring to turning up to a small faction that you know you can defeat simply for some freebies. Could it be that the choice of faction is the problem? These factions are going to lose, and there's no question about it. They're often non-prem, so it seems pointless leaving their houses to lose all their stuff. What if you raided a faction with a bunch of PvPers online, maybe you'd get some loot, maybe you wouldn't, but they sure as heck would fight back.

If someone from the PvP world can enlighten me, that'd be great. I just think that maybe you're choosing the wrong targets. In general, people don't leave their houses for a massacre.

Click to shrink...

From what I can tell, you do lack knowledge of the details, but what you do know plus the deductive reasoning and logic you've shown puts you pretty much on par with the conversation.

 

[Mecharic]

Personally I do try to defend my base. I'm not very good at it but I try. I just don't think that people should be forced to defend their base. That they shouldn't be condemned for hiding, hated on for refusing to fight a battle they know they can't win, or otherwise forced to give something when they have the viable alternative of hiding.

In short: let defenders decide if they wanna fight back or not, and don't bitch if they choose not to.

Also, it may help incentivize defenders if you PvPers didn't gloat over killing them as if it was something to be proud of. Good for you, you killed a faction of helpless noobs, must be so proud... gloat in your faction chat, keep it out of peoples faces.

 

[BenRekt]

Personally I do try to defend my base. I'm not very good at it but I try. I just don't think that people should be forced to defend their base. That they shouldn't be condemned for hiding, hated on for refusing to fight a battle they know they can't win, or otherwise forced to give something when they have the viable alternative of hiding.

In short: let defenders decide if they wanna fight back or not, and don't bitch if they choose not to.

Also, it may help incentivize defenders if you PvPers didn't gloat over killing them as if it was something to be proud of. Good for you, you killed a faction of helpless noobs, must be so proud... gloat in your faction chat, keep it out of peoples faces.

Click to shrink...

Mecharic, please don't generalize an entire community. I know some people like to flame a lot when they get a kill, but most of the time it's a joke and people (Like yourself) don't realize that it is because they are not involved whatsoever.

Thanks for your constructive feedback and opinion though, always appreciated.

 

[Mecharic]

Mecharic, please don't generalize an entire community. I know some people like to flame a lot when they get a kill, but most of the time it's a joke and people (Like yourself) don't realize that it is because they are not involved whatsoever.

Thanks for your constructive feedback and opinion though, always appreciated.

Click to shrink...

Oh I understand that you're all just joking. But what you find funny can be very insulting to the person who just keeled over and is now seeing a bunch of PvPers luling at their lack of skill. It's not conductive to a friendly or supportive relationship between PvPer and RPer, is all I'm trying to say.

 

[BenRekt]

Oh I understand that you're all just joking. But what you find funny can be very insulting to the person who just keeled over and is now seeing a bunch of PvPers luling at their lack of skill. It's not conductive to a friendly or supportive relationship between PvPer and RPer, is all I'm trying to say.

Click to shrink...

I definitely see why you would say that, and for the most part what your saying is valid.

 

[Sephite]

Why is it now that "PVPers" want to force "RPers" to fight? After all "RPers" don't force "PVPers" to roleplay either...

 

[Knyxo]

Unfortunately this will always be a problem so long as Rp and PvP oriented people exist in the same faction world, which yes, is so hardwired into massive that it can't really be fixed, at least not without making a lot of people unhappy. When you see other faction servers, everybody is at least willing to Pvp, even if they're bad at it. They wouldn't join the server at all if they didn't have some ambition to get strong, or rich, or just have fun actually playing the game. They get gear, they build bases, they fight, they have fun doing it. They don't join to stand around and chit-chat and play pretend. That, alone, makes PvP more vibrant. You just play minecraft, with none of the fancy lore stuff. Throw RP into the mix though, like on massive, and the PvP/Survival aspect now needs to be in an 'easy-mode' I guess you could call it, where things need to be toned down so the people that don't Pvp can exist in the same faction worlds as the players that do PvP. That's how I see it anyways. Guess I'm just saying obvious stuff in a more lengthy manner. Eh, whatever.

 

[The Genie]

Personally I do try to defend my base. I'm not very good at it but I try. I just don't think that people should be forced to defend their base. That they shouldn't be condemned for hiding, hated on for refusing to fight a battle they know they can't win, or otherwise forced to give something when they have the viable alternative of hiding.

In short: let defenders decide if they wanna fight back or not, and don't bitch if they choose not to.

Also, it may help incentivize defenders if you PvPers didn't gloat over killing them as if it was something to be proud of. Good for you, you killed a faction of helpless noobs, must be so proud... gloat in your faction chat, keep it out of peoples faces.

Click to shrink...

Wisdom.

 

[The Genie]

Why is it now that "PVPers" want to force "RPers" to fight? After all "RPers" don't force "PVPers" to roleplay either...

Click to shrink...

Also wisdom.

 

[The Genie]

Unfortunately this will always be a problem so long as Rp and PvP oriented people exist in the same faction world, which yes, is so hardwired into massive that it can't really be fixed, at least not without making a lot of people unhappy. When you see other faction servers, everybody is at least willing to Pvp, even if they're bad at it. They wouldn't join the server at all if they didn't have some ambition to get strong, or rich, or just have fun actually playing the game. They get gear, they build bases, they fight, they have fun doing it. They don't join to stand around and chit-chat and play pretend. That, alone, makes PvP more vibrant. You just play minecraft, with none of the fancy lore stuff. Throw RP into the mix though, like on massive, and the PvP/Survival aspect now needs to be in an 'easy-mode' I guess you could call it, where things need to be toned down so the people that don't Pvp can exist in the same faction worlds as the players that do PvP. That's how I see it anyways. Guess I'm just saying obvious stuff in a more lengthy manner. Eh, whatever.

Click to shrink...

I see your opinion and how it's problematic, but isn't this getting strong, rich, gear, a base or three, and fighting you speak of all pretend as well? It's about as real as the "playing pretend", or RPing.

Are the RPers trying to make it so everyone must RP with them or else be condemned and punished? No.

 

[The Genie]

It is difficult to have RP and PvP on the same server, but that is what Massive is.

The way I see it is, what's wrong with trying to not lose your hard-earned items? If a PvPer wants to PvP, why not go and fight the large amount of people on this server who actually enjoy it?

Punishing RP factions for not wanting to be raided by large and strong factions and PvPers would simply drive away those who do not focus on PvP, which means fewer players, which means less donations to the server, which means there could be problems.

I see nothing wrong with PvP, but isn't just surrendering and being either humiliated and/or losing money or items bad enough? If the raiders don't have the patience to wait for a surrender, that's their problem.

 

[Knyxo]

I see your opinion and how it's problematic, but isn't this getting strong, rich, gear, a base or three, and fighting you speak of all pretend as well? It's about as real as the "playing pretend", or RPing.

Are the RPers trying to make it so everyone must RP with them or else be condemned and punished? No.

Click to shrink...

Virtual? Yes. Pretend? Certainly not.

And no, they don't, and I don't think PvPers should punish RPers either. I actually like the current raid system to be honest, certainly an improvement over that war declaration system beforehand, though that's probably just me, since I don't raid nearly as much as most of the people that have an issue with it. I was mostly just saying how having RPers and PvPers in the same faction world will always prevent PvP in the factions world from being as good as it normally would be, which is unfortunate for a factions server.

 

[Togal]

I'm so Salty m8

Click to shrink...

The majority of Pvpers do not gloat over killing Rpers, this gloating is mainly focused on other pvpers that can withstand the flame. However If they do you may noticed its the latest generation of Pvpers do brag about every single victory they have achieved. Sure Pvpers target wealthy players as a source of resources... The final reason is due to a salty person that does nothing but rants continuous insults.

 

[BenRekt]

It is difficult to have RP and PvP on the same server, but that is what Massive is.

The way I see it is, what's wrong with trying to not lose your hard-earned items? If a PvPer wants to PvP, why not go and fight the large amount of people on this server who actually enjoy it?

Punishing RP factions for not wanting to be raided by large and strong factions and PvPers would simply drive away those who do not focus on PvP, which means fewer players, which means less donations to the server, which means there could be problems.

I see nothing wrong with PvP, but isn't just surrendering and being either humiliated and/or losing money or items bad enough? If the raiders don't have the patience to wait for a surrender, that's their problem.

Click to shrink...

For future reference, please just make one comment instead of making 4 separate comments in a row.

 

[Mecharic]

Virtual? Yes. Pretend? Certainly not.

Click to shrink...

My characters are as real as your stats: a bunch of code floating in cyberspace.

The majority of Pvpers do not gloat over killing Rpers, this gloating is mainly focused on other pvpers that can withstand the flame. However If they do you may noticed its the latest generation of Pvpers do brag about every single victory they have achieved. Sure Pvpers target wealthy players as a source of resources... The final reason is due to a salty person that does nothing but rants continuous insults.

Click to shrink...

I have no insulted anyone. I have stated a problem that you have admitted exists (people gloating over victories) and for some reason that makes me the bad guy. And what the hell do you mean by "salty person that does nothing but rants and continuous insults"? I don't believe anything I've said was a rant or insult, and if you took it that way, well, my point has been made: what one thinks is fine another may find insulting.

 

[masterichu]

 

[The Genie]

For future reference, please just make one comment instead of making 4 separate comments in a row.

Click to shrink...

Ah, xD sorry about that.

Virtual? Yes. Pretend? Certainly not.

And no, they don't, and I don't think PvPers should punish RPers either. I actually like the current raid system to be honest, certainly an improvement over that war declaration system beforehand, though that's probably just me, since I don't raid nearly as much as most of the people that have an issue with it. I was mostly just saying how having RPers and PvPers in the same faction world will always prevent PvP in the factions world from being as good as it normally would be, which is unfortunate for a factions server.

Click to shrink...

I too don't mind the current raiding system. Doesn't seem to have any major issues. Although, I do fail to see how PvP, the stats, the loot, and all other things associated with PvP are any more real than RP.

If you think about it, PvPers are just going to a virtual world to have fun slaughtering other people in a virtual world. RPers are going to a virtual world to pretend to be someone else in a fantastical world. And then there are the RPers who PvP as their characters. They do both at once. They're just as real as each other.

 

[Spacee]

While Shaolin is a mainly Roeplay faction, what Premium members we have try to defend, we have some good PvP'ers like Hydra or Pariah, and some that are at least trying. I don't think you have to defend your faction, but in my opinion, defending is better than not fighting at all. But there are some cases where a the odds are insurmountable, in those cases, I think, it is perfectly fine to stay in your home or TP to Regalia.

 

[BenRekt]

But there are some cases where a the odds are insurmountable, in those cases, I think, it is perfectly fine to stay in your home or TP to Regalia.

Click to shrink...

That's why I'm wondering why it's still even advertised as a "PvP/Factions" server when it can easily be avoided at any time.

 

[Sephite]

That's why I'm wondering why it's still even advertised as a "PvP/Factions" server when it can easily be avoided at any time.

Click to shrink...

Because that's one of the many options on Massivecraft. It's not a lie that there are factions and that there is PvP (+KitPvP), so why shouldn't they advertise what the server offers? If I remember right it says RP (Massivecraft - The Factions MMORPG) in the adverts too, so you kinda know what you get.
And if you ask me: this mix is great. This is what makes Massivecraft unique and different to all the other servers out there. We just need to learn to be a bit more tolerant towards each other. "RPers" should understand that killing is the nature of "PVPers" and shouldn't get angry when they are victims of a surprise attack and "PVPers" should make all the effort they can to try and attack other targets first. Targets that actually satisfy their fighting urge and leave them will less complaints about people who aren't defending themselves.

Note: I never said anywhere that PvPers shouldn't attack RPers at all.

 

[MyCatBubbles]

One of the many reasons I would not defend my faction is losing regals and just getting absolutely steamrolled, I look into an enemies faction and judge "Are these guys stronger then me?" "Are the prem or nonprem, because if they are nonprem they would be just as scared as me for their loot", If they are a strong enemy full of prems then I would just not defend because it would not prove useful, just losing more regals and faction power. And keep in mind that I don't like wasting god armor and resources to defend for no reason.

 

[ohlookabear]

I am good at PvP.
But I hate it.
PvP is so petty its sad. Constantly players hating on each other, REAL hate that extends beyond the server and that is truly pathetic. I starved myself whilst I was trapped a while back, and the faction I was in claimed they killed me and started boasting in PvP chat.
Or when I went into an ARRANGED 2 v 1 where the other two guys just kept jumping in water on low HP, and when I had been beating them to a pulp for like 20 mins, I ran out of potions and went to go and get more - and I was the coward?
Or being ridiculed for having fun with PvP like it needs to be taken seriously. Great server terrible community of children.

Poorly constructed reply but idec m8

 

[XvW]

I just remembered when players, such as myself, would defend their faction no matter what, even with no McMMO levels trained and no Premium. Hell, back then I was really terrible at PvP but I still tried. I guess I'm just kind of a combination of being sad, frustrated and nostalgic now that people just give up instantly whenever there is a challenge.

Click to shrink...

I don't know how long ago this was but I remember people joining fights more often before enchants became really popular on this server, back when plain diamond gear was used and wars were won due to lack of diamonds for repairs.

 

[HobblingHobbit]

I support PvP factions through and through. Who else is going to force me to hide in my sewers until their finished? Not my freaking youtube addiction that's for sure.......

 

[Absorbius]

Personally, I think the RPers and PvPers could just coexist without having to force either into whatever they want.

To start off, PvPers' problems will be entirely fixed by just not trying to fight RP factions. Think about it; RP faction won't fight back, they don't have anything of value, and frankly - our main form of defense is to make you guys as bored as possible, so you'll leave.

By fighting an actual faction that actually wants this sort of attention, you not only get what you want (release from boredom/fighting) but you also get the 'spoils of war'. There is no gain from fighting us. If we actually fought, there would be nearly no competition, and you'll only get a few regals. We're not rich.

But, if you see a faction staying inside rather than fighting, move on. You don't have to stay. You're not losing your silly 'honour' from giving up. RPers don't care, they just want to do what they want (which, might I say, doesn't involve taking your money).

 

[PuddingPop]

I've taken the opportunity of fixing @Knyxor s original statement:

"Unfortunately this will always be a problem so long as PvP and RP oriented people exist in the same faction world, which yes, is so hardwired into massive that it shouldn't really be fixed, because it's not a problem, and anyone that is unhappy from the Massive Craft rules can quit. When you see other faction servers, everybody is forced to PvP to survive, even if they're bad at it. They wouldn't join the server at all if they didn't have some ambition to make a peaceful faction with friends, or attempt to make actually decent structures, or just have fun actually playing the game. They make new friends, they build cities (Not obsidian cubes underground), they do not fight, and they have fun doing it. They DO join to adventure and make lore and play a character. That, alone, makes RP more vibrant. You just play minecraft, with none of the fighting, name calling, and destruction of hard work. Throw PvP into the mix though, like on massive, and the RP/Survival aspect now needs to be in a 'hard-mode' I guess you could call it. Things shouldn't have to be toned down so the people that don't PvP can exist in the same faction worlds as the players that do PvP, because Massive Craft has enabled RPers the ability to live in harmony with these meat heads, without having to PvP. That's how I see it anyways. Guess I'm just saying obvious stuff in a more lengthy manner. Eh, whatever."

-Love PuddingPop,
(the guy who chilled in a hot tub, playing Stal, and actually made you fall for a mannequin with my head mounted on it, all while you waddled around outside our city and called it "raiding.") GG

 

[The Genie]

I've taken the opportunity of fixing @Knyxor s original statement:

"Unfortunately this will always be a problem so long as PvP and RP oriented people exist in the same faction world, which yes, is so hardwired into massive that it shouldn't really be fixed, because it's not a problem, and anyone that is unhappy from the Massive Craft rules can quit. When you see other faction servers, everybody is forced to PvP to survive, even if they're bad at it. They wouldn't join the server at all if they didn't have some ambition to make a peaceful faction with friends, or attempt to make actually decent structures, or just have fun actually playing the game. They make new friends, they build cities (Not obsidian cubes underground), they do not fight, and they have fun doing it. They DO join to adventure and make lore and play a character. That, alone, makes RP more vibrant. You just play minecraft, with none of the fighting, name calling, and destruction of hard work. Throw PvP into the mix though, like on massive, and the RP/Survival aspect now needs to be in a 'hard-mode' I guess you could call it. Things shouldn't have to be toned down so the people that don't PvP can exist in the same faction worlds as the players that do PvP, because Massive Craft has enabled RPers the ability to live in harmony with these meat heads, without having to PvP. That's how I see it anyways. Guess I'm just saying obvious stuff in a more lengthy manner. Eh, whatever."

-Love PuddingPop,
(the guy who chilled in a hot tub, playing Stal, and actually made you fall for a mannequin with my head mounted on it, all while you waddled around outside our city and called it "raiding.") GG

Click to shrink...

Shots have been fired! -pew pew-

I think that this is pushing it a tad, I see the appeal of both RP and PvP, but yeah, it's a PvP and RP server, so this is how it is. And I would say the staff are doing a pretty damn good job at keeping the two in balance.

 

[Alj23]

I've taken the opportunity of fixing @Knyxor s original statement:

"Unfortunately this will always be a problem so long as PvP and RP oriented people exist in the same faction world, which yes, is so hardwired into massive that it shouldn't really be fixed, because it's not a problem, and anyone that is unhappy from the Massive Craft rules can quit. When you see other faction servers, everybody is forced to PvP to survive, even if they're bad at it. They wouldn't join the server at all if they didn't have some ambition to make a peaceful faction with friends, or attempt to make actually decent structures, or just have fun actually playing the game. They make new friends, they build cities (Not obsidian cubes underground), they do not fight, and they have fun doing it. They DO join to adventure and make lore and play a character. That, alone, makes RP more vibrant. You just play minecraft, with none of the fighting, name calling, and destruction of hard work. Throw PvP into the mix though, like on massive, and the RP/Survival aspect now needs to be in a 'hard-mode' I guess you could call it. Things shouldn't have to be toned down so the people that don't PvP can exist in the same faction worlds as the players that do PvP, because Massive Craft has enabled RPers the ability to live in harmony with these meat heads, without having to PvP. That's how I see it anyways. Guess I'm just saying obvious stuff in a more lengthy manner. Eh, whatever."

-Love PuddingPop,
(the guy who chilled in a hot tub, playing Stal, and actually made you fall for a mannequin with my head mounted on it, all while you waddled around outside our city and called it "raiding.") GG

Click to shrink...

It's unfortunate how distorted you view on the matter is. You're saying very incorrect things in a very aggressive manner, but eh, whatever.

It is not a problem that RP and PVP exist in the same world. What is a problem is that people see no reason to defend themselves, even though they live in a medieval set world, where the threat of raids by bandits loomed over their heads ever so constant. Now, I'm not saying that the specific instance of people not defending themselves is the problem, but that there is a problem somewhere along the line that either discourages people from defending, or makes it impossible to defend, and that's the problem. We fix that problem, whatever it may be, the so called "problem" of people not defending themselves goes away as well. Encouraging players to leave because they dislike rules or an aspect of the server is the last thing we want to do. Taking time to find and fix the problem, and retain those players is the best option available.

The way I think a lot of people look at it is if you are in Regalia, you are there to most likely RP. RP is protected there. It is literally RP haven. When you step foot into the survival worlds, your RP is still protected to an extent, although you must now contend with PVP. Once you are in a survival world, you acknowledge that there is a possibility you can be attacked and killed. It's just frustrating when PVPers go to Regalia, and are expected to follow these very strict guidelines, where yelling too loud in the streets or running through the tavern might result in a warn, mute, or jail. But when people come to the survival worlds, a one block thick wall can come between the enjoyment a PVPer would get from a raid. I'm not saying any of this unfair, I'm just explaining the frustration it causes. I understand the need for the rules that are in place in Regalia to make RP enjoyable for everyone, but I think some PVPers are just annoyed by the lack of reciprocation they get from certain people in the survival worlds, when it comes to PVP and raids. RPers see the things I mentioned above as a nuisance, and PVPers see the lack of interaction some people offer as a nuisance, but yet one of these is punished, while the other is seen as someone expressing their right to how they want to play the game. I'm not asking for refusal to defend your base become a rule break, I'm just pointing out that both are a nuisance to the opposite party.

Oh, and calling us meat heats is pretty offensive. Some of us are jerks, but don't profile the entire community until you understand us. We may come off as abrasive, and maybe that's because when it comes to PVP, you've got be a little mean. I've met some pretty rude and arrogant RPers as well, but I try not to profile the entire group as so, because I also know some very nice and kind RPers, and the same can be said about PVPers.

 

[G0atfather]

It's unfortunate how distorted you view on the matter is. You're saying very incorrect things in a very aggressive manner, but eh, whatever.

It is not a problem that RP and PVP exist in the same world. What is a problem is that people see no reason to defend themselves, even though they live in a medieval set world, where the threat of raids by bandits loomed over their heads ever so constant. Now, I'm not saying that the specific instance of people not defending themselves is the problem, but that there is a problem somewhere along the line that either discourages people from defending, or makes it impossible to defend, and that's the problem. We fix that problem, whatever it may be, the so called "problem" of people not defending themselves goes away as well. Encouraging players to leave because they dislike rules or an aspect of the server is the last thing we want to do. Taking time to find and fix the problem, and retain those players is the best option available.

The way I think a lot of people look at it is if you are in Regalia, you are there to most likely RP. RP is protected there. It is literally RP haven. When you step foot into the survival worlds, your RP is still protected to an extent, although you must now contend with PVP. Once you are in a survival world, you acknowledge that there is a possibility you can be attacked and killed. It's just frustrating when PVPers go to Regalia, and are expected to follow these very strict guidelines, where yelling too loud in the streets or running through the tavern might result in a warn, mute, or jail. But when people come to the survival worlds, a one block thick wall can come between the enjoyment a PVPer would get from a raid. I'm not saying any of this unfair, I'm just explaining the frustration it causes. I understand the need for the rules that are in place in Regalia to make RP enjoyable for everyone, but I think some PVPers are just annoyed by the lack of reciprocation they get from certain people in the survival worlds, when it comes to PVP and raids. RPers see the things I mentioned above as a nuisance, and PVPers see the lack of interaction some people offer as a nuisance, but yet one of these is punished, while the other is seen as someone expressing their right to how they want to play the game. I'm not asking for refusal to defend your base become a rule break, I'm just pointing out that both are a nuisance to the opposite party.

Oh, and calling us meat heats is pretty offensive. Some of us are jerks, but don't profile the entire community until you understand us. We may come off as abrasive, and maybe that's because when it comes to PVP, you've got be a little mean. I've met some pretty rude and arrogant RPers as well, but I try not to profile the entire group as so, because I also know some very nice and kind RPers, and the same can be said about PVPers.

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I see what you're saying and I'm glad you don't think people should be forced to fight. The difference between pvpers running through the tavern and screaming (or anyone for that matter) is that it is interfering with roleplay. people not fighting is just the person not wanting to lose their stuff because they know they'll lose. I can see why someone not fighting would be annoying but I know that I personally can't pvp well and if I tried to fight I'd lose a lot of my things especially if I am building. It becomes a slaughter. If pvpers want a haven, the way I see it that is what the kitpvp world is meant to be. pvpers fighting each other and hell if someone who can't fight well wants to try, they can with no consequence of losing their hard earned diamonds. just my opinion, of course.

 

[PuddingPop]

It's unfortunate how distorted you view on the matter is. You're saying very incorrect things in a very aggressive manner, but eh, whatever.

It is not a problem that RP and PVP exist in the same world. What is a problem is that people see no reason to defend themselves, even though they live in a medieval set world, where the threat of raids by bandits loomed over their heads ever so constant. Now, I'm not saying that the specific instance of people not defending themselves is the problem, but that there is a problem somewhere along the line that either discourages people from defending, or makes it impossible to defend, and that's the problem. We fix that problem, whatever it may be, the so called "problem" of people not defending themselves goes away as well. Encouraging players to leave because they dislike rules or an aspect of the server is the last thing we want to do. Taking time to find and fix the problem, and retain those players is the best option available.

The way I think a lot of people look at it is if you are in Regalia, you are there to most likely RP. RP is protected there. It is literally RP haven. When you step foot into the survival worlds, your RP is still protected to an extent, although you must now contend with PVP. Once you are in a survival world, you acknowledge that there is a possibility you can be attacked and killed. It's just frustrating when PVPers go to Regalia, and are expected to follow these very strict guidelines, where yelling too loud in the streets or running through the tavern might result in a warn, mute, or jail. But when people come to the survival worlds, a one block thick wall can come between the enjoyment a PVPer would get from a raid. I'm not saying any of this unfair, I'm just explaining the frustration it causes. I understand the need for the rules that are in place in Regalia to make RP enjoyable for everyone, but I think some PVPers are just annoyed by the lack of reciprocation they get from certain people in the survival worlds, when it comes to PVP and raids. RPers see the things I mentioned above as a nuisance, and PVPers see the lack of interaction some people offer as a nuisance, but yet one of these is punished, while the other is seen as someone expressing their right to how they want to play the game. I'm not asking for refusal to defend your base become a rule break, I'm just pointing out that both are a nuisance to the opposite party.

Oh, and calling us meat heats is pretty offensive. Some of us are jerks, but don't profile the entire community until you understand us. We may come off as abrasive, and maybe that's because when it comes to PVP, you've got be a little mean. I've met some pretty rude and arrogant RPers as well, but I try not to profile the entire group as so, because I also know some very nice and kind RPers, and the same can be said about PVPers.

Click to shrink...

You realize I was just quoting Knyxor, and making the statement RP positive, right...?

 

[Brycenmott]

I have a story to tell. This is a story of a raid that happened. A good pvper came and raiding Shaolin, killing a few non-prem rpers out in the streets, and taking their items. Then, Hydra is ready and comes out to fight them, and guess what? They run away. This wasn't once or twice, this is almost every single time. Pvpers, fight other pvpers, not rpers and builders. What is the point in pvp if you are just going to run away when the 1 real pvper in the faction comes?

Another thing, let's say one good pvper who has been on the server for a long time is raiding. He/she has almost infinite god gear, amazing mcmmo stats, great traits, a good pot setup, experience, etc. They raid a new faction with say 12 members online. Those 12 members are new non-prems with god gear but bad stats. They don't pvp, they build and rp, and play the game the way they play it. They defend themselves, and get killed. All that they accomplished was losing their stuff, and geting killed. They leave the server, and the server loses 12 members that could've been good rpers or builders.

 

[Celeras]

When a game relies on spammy potion throwing and jump-attacks as the optimal form of fighting, I just lose interest. Hopefully, the 1.9 update will bring with it better combat mechanics. Like timed attacks, parrying, shield blocking, locational damage, etc.

It is Mojang though so I won't hold my breath.

 

[Genecide65]

Back then like a year ago i would defend my self in massive, i remember the joy of actually killing someone with my bow or bringing someone close to death. Anyone can defend themselves, it just depends if they want to or not. Now when i get raided i just sit in my house organizing chests or something. I don't bother defending myself because i know once i die they will want more regals, be more interested in steamrolling my faction, and pvp chat will be lit up with "Ez" and tons of other flame. Its not that i don't have the guts to go out there, or that i don't want to lose anything, its just that i suck at pvp and i know when i die i will be flamed at. People and pvp have both changed Drastically. Defending, Attacking, and pvp in general would be more fun if people actually respected each other and gave each other tips on fighting, or just didn't flame. I don't know if this is just me, but it this is how i feel.

P.S. I have nothing against Non-prems, Prems, pvpers, or Rpers... I just feel like some peoples attitudes need to change.

 

[TheBatman1016]

I remember back in the first month or so after I joined Massive, my faction got attacked by Thaelyn, one of the largest PVP factions at the time. None of us were premium, the best MCMMO stat any of us had was maybe 50 swords, and we had some half-enchanted iron/chain armor. We got absolutely obliterated. But no matter how much we lost, when ever they came to attack, we gave it our best shot with whatever we could offer. Eventually we surrendered because we couldn't afford losing our items anymore, but thats how it is supposed to be.

Ok, Now onto my point. The moral of my story is that whenever you get attacked, you should only have 2 options. Fight, or surrender. I feel that it is so ironic for a RP faction to just try to "wait out" their attackers because its impossible for them to break blocks, which is so unrealistic. For example, in real life, if an army were to march into an enemy town, and the townsmen choose not to fight for fear of death, (loss of equipment, etc.) The invading army would now own the town. Thats just how it works. However, since it is Minecraft and there are faction permissions and stuff like that, the invading army can't just take control of the town if no one opposes them. There should be a way to force a surrender upon a faction if they refuse to even fight back.

On to my second point. I know what a lot of you will say. RP Factions can't fight back, or RP factions can't afford to surrender. First off, its silly to try to found a kingdom without planning on defending it. You should have some guards, or at least some allies to defend. If you can't defend your faction, you really shouldn't be making one. It would be better for you to join an existing one. And if you really can't fight then just surrender. On to the point of RP factions not being able to surrender, surrendering doesn't always have to be regals or items. Most if not all PvP factions would be perfectly happy if you just hung or their flag, joined their empire, or made a public surrender. All of these cost nothing. And again, if you can't defend you faction and don't want to surrender, you shouldn't be making a faction in the first place.


One last thing. For those who say that this can all be averted if PvP factions didn't raid RP factions, there are a few things you are missing. First off PvP factions are really bored of attacking each other all the time. It isn't like there is just this huge selection of factions for them to choose from. For the past 2 years or so, it has just been the same 2 groups of players fighting each other under different faction names.

 

[MokeDuck]

i think that the main problem is un-claiming or claiming other fac's chunks is disabled, why defend when i am perfectly safe in my base, whether or not my land/power ratio is 251/20. if raiders could get INSIDE then id have to defend. also yes, like ben rekt i did once try to defend bare-handed against a premium in god armor, and im terrible at PvP. really though i think that the best strategy against premiums or people with god armor is to get about 10 people in good dia armor and all just crowd around the raider. id love it if factions could have more allies.

 

[The Genie]

I remember back in the first month or so after I joined Massive, my faction got attacked by Thaelyn, one of the largest PVP factions at the time. None of us were premium, the best MCMMO stat any of us had was maybe 50 swords, and we had some half-enchanted iron/chain armor. We got absolutely obliterated. But no matter how much we lost, when ever they came to attack, we gave it our best shot with whatever we could offer. Eventually we surrendered because we couldn't afford losing our items anymore, but thats how it is supposed to be.

Ok, Now onto my point. The moral of my story is that whenever you get attacked, you should only have 2 options. Fight, or surrender. I feel that it is so ironic for a RP faction to just try to "wait out" their attackers because its impossible for them to break blocks, which is so unrealistic. For example, in real life, if an army were to march into an enemy town, and the townsmen choose not to fight for fear of death, (loss of equipment, etc.) The invading army would now own the town. Thats just how it works. However, since it is Minecraft and there are faction permissions and stuff like that, the invading army can't just take control of the town if no one opposes them. There should be a way to force a surrender upon a faction if they refuse to even fight back.

On to my second point. I know what a lot of you will say. RP Factions can't fight back, or RP factions can't afford to surrender. First off, its silly to try to found a kingdom without planning on defending it. You should have some guards, or at least some allies to defend. If you can't defend your faction, you really shouldn't be making one. It would be better for you to join an existing one. And if you really can't fight then just surrender. On to the point of RP factions not being able to surrender, surrendering doesn't always have to be regals or items. Most if not all PvP factions would be perfectly happy if you just hung or their flag, joined their empire, or made a public surrender. All of these cost nothing. And again, if you can't defend you faction and don't want to surrender, you shouldn't be making a faction in the first place.


One last thing. For those who say that this can all be averted if PvP factions didn't raid RP factions, there are a few things you are missing. First off PvP factions are really bored of attacking each other all the time. It isn't like there is just this huge selection of factions for them to choose from. For the past 2 years or so, it has just been the same 2 groups of players fighting each other under different faction names.

Click to shrink...

While you have some valid points, not everyone wants to lose all of their items that took hard-earned regals to get in a fight that they stand no chance in. But, if you can hide indoors, why would you surrender? You're safe inside. I know that it's very unrealistic, but, if you want realistic combat, go get some friends, armor, and weapons, then stab each other for fun (that was sarcasm. Don't actually do it). You're playing a video game. Do you expect everything to be realistic?

Now, what if some people want to RP, but not in the Regalian settings, or with the same rules and lore? What if the RPers want to build their own kingdom in Minecraft and not have it be griefed to Hell? If having a faction was restricted to PvPers, then there would be far fewer people on the server as some just want to build up a city and RP there. You can't claim land if you don't have a faction. Builders and RPers need factions just as much as PvPers do.

Hanging their flag up, that seems fair enough. But, still, it's humiliating, as is a public surrender.

I understand that you don't mean that only PvPers get factions, but not everyone has regals to surrender with. Joining an empire can create enemies with the empire's enemies. That means more raiding, more loss of items. While the empire might be willing to help you in this, perhaps they won't.

Saying that, "And if you really can't fight, then just surrender," and actually meaning it, would basically grant PvPers the ability to go to any peaceful building or RP-based faction and just get some free cash or items whenever they want.

TL;DR: Basically, some people build their faction for the purpose of claiming their buildings so they cannot be griefed or to have a safe place to RP but with different rules than Regalia has. Should they be forced to pay for their lack of interest in PvP?

If anyone is so seriously displeased with the state of PvP at MassiveCraft and the lack of different people to PvP with, then why don't you bring some of your friends onto the server to PvP with you? Or maybe talk more with the staff about how you think they can improve PvP. You can't just draft people into the world of PvP.

 

[Celeras]

Also don't forget that simply joining an empire or hanging another factions flag can be non-immersive when it comes to RP. Some factions might be neutral guilds/organizations that just wouldn't make sense as part of an empire.

Honestly all you're going to end up accomplishing by forcing RPers to PVP is all RPers either leaving the faction worlds or leaving Massivecraft entirely. Either way, you still won't have anyone to PVP with.