Archived Tax, Not Fair To Active Members

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Lalvon

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Hello

After 3 days inactive members stop getting taxed by factions.
this seams unfair to active members, who get taxed. when inactive members don't.

Idea: Let factions decide if inactive members get taxed/or not.

because factions get taxed always even if inactive.
 
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Hello

After 3 days inactive members stop getting taxed by factions.
this seams unfair to active members, who get taxed. when inactive members don't.

Idea: Let factions decide if inactive members get taxed/or not.

because factions get taxed always even if inactive.
I honestly agree with this so much. But i want to bet there might be a good reason to why the 3 day tax stops. But either way i totally support making it at least a flag similar to taxkick, or a setting under /f tax
 
wait this is a thing? why though?

I get that a player could go inactive for a season and then get butthurt when they lose all their money. But at the same time, they should've told their faction leader that they were going on holiday and made arrangements (sounds silly, but that's what I'd expect my members to do)
On the other hand, if somebody quit Massive permanently, why wouldn't a leader cash in on that useless money and get the tax from it? The money eventually leaves the pool, so win for that.

I don't use the faction tax, since it's stupid to tax my alt. But if I did use the tax, I would be kicking players as soon as I lost my tax return on them. If they aren't active, why should I as a leader spend resources to keep their stuff secured for free? It makes no sense.

I agree with the OP in that the system is unfair to active members. I think the tax should just keep taking out money, and members who are planning on leaving for a while should find a vault to store stuff and leave their current faction. When they come back, they can get their stuff from the vault and rejoin. But getting a free pass on taxes while active members have to pay daily is kinda odd.
 
/f tax set (alt name) 0

This would make the tax nothing for that player, regardless of other tax rules in place like rank or default.
I don't use tax at all, since it's literally just me and the alt : ) and I'm paranoid af when it comes to factions
 
*prem goes inactive, nothing will happen to him for 100 days*
/f tax set name 10
-1000r for the premium taking no faction resources, as the leader would presumably have the sense not to keep their house/whatever.
Frankly, if you have an even remotely active member base, you can pay all of your taxes with the active members. Leaders aren't supposed to be making thousands of regals off player taxes, it's supposed to help support the faction.
 
Frankly, if you have an even remotely active member base, you can pay all of your taxes with the active members. Leaders aren't supposed to be making thousands of regals off player taxes, it's supposed to help support the faction.
While this is, i would bet one of the reasons, that the 3 day inactive thing is in place, but with taxes doubled as of late, it seems a bit unbalanced for the active players
 
Before the tax hike, this was not an issue. Now however, i feel like this should be implemented. In Aeris's case, we are forced to have high taxes for the 30ish active people, since the inactive people dont pay. If this was an option, we could lower taxes overall, and make it better for everyone. I support this entirely.
 
Before the tax hike, this was not an issue. Now however, i feel like this should be implemented. In Aeris's case, we are forced to have high taxes for the 30ish active people, since the inactive people dont pay. If this was an option, we could lower taxes overall, and make it better for everyone. I support this entirely.
Aeris is also making quite a bit of money from their taxes.
 
usually 10-20r a day, which is not thousands of regals as said earlier.
 
I understand ppl go inactive because of real life and I don't hold my members back if that's so. I even give them time as long as they let me know. it would be nice if faction leaders have the choice, instead of being dictated for us.
 
I don't see why you'd want to charge people for not playing a game.
 
I don't see why you'd want to charge people for not playing a game.
My original point was more along the lines of "why have your peeps pay to protect somebody who's never online."

I guess this statement applies to me more, and not for everyone else. If I invited people besides myself to my faction, I'd be kicking inactive members once I didn't get return on them.

I do see the counter reason that why should you get screwed over due to being inactive. I'll just agree to disagree and keep to my hermit hole in the ground.
 
My original point was more along the lines of "why have your peeps pay to protect somebody who's never online."

I guess this statement applies to me more, and not for everyone else. If I invited people besides myself to my faction, I'd be kicking inactive members once I didn't get return on them.

I do see the counter reason that why should you get screwed over due to being inactive. I'll just agree to disagree and keep to my hermit hole in the ground.
Not everyone can play daily. Not playing for 3 days or longer is normal for some people. Max you can get from people is 10r a day anyways. And if you can't make up for the days they're inactive, which for a week would be a max of 70r, you either need to unclaim or recruit.
 
so if
Not everyone can play daily. Not playing for 3 days or longer is normal for some people. Max you can get from people is 10r a day anyways. And if you can't make up for the days they're inactive, which for a week would be a max of 70r, you either need to unclaim or recruit.

So, if I follow your logic, if a faction goes inactive do u stop asking taxes of that faction?
 
so if


So, if I follow your logic, if a faction goes inactive do u stop asking taxes of that faction?
Of course the faction will keep being charged. It's the faction leader's responsibility to either recruit or hire recruiters to stay active. If you claim a load and your members go inactive, if you are unable to pay and you refuse to replace the inactive members, then you should unclaim. It's all the same as if a member quits a faction to go to another one after three days. You don't get tax off them even though they still used your faction for three days.
 
Idk what side im on because I agree that people who are inactive should not be taxed, while I can see that it's a burden for the active people

If a faction player tax is 3r.. then an active person with 2r can get taxkicked while an inactive person with 2r can be safe since he isnt being audited for the tax. That kind of stuff makes no sense to me
 
but keep in mind, as far as i know, very few factions have tax kick enabled (correct me if i am wrong)
 
Imo since upkeep was increased by a factor of 2, I dont see why the amount of time members can be taxed shouldnt be increased by roughly that same amount as well. Especially considering a player can receive 100r just for logging on, I dont see a reason why the argument that inactive members shouldnt be taxed holds much weight. As long as the amount of time they continue to be taxed remains at 10 days or below, they easily recoup that loss due to taxes just by logging on and clicking an npc. So if the time is increased from 3 days to say a week, then they will still be making at least 30 regals if they log on after a week or longer as long as they bother to collect them (if their tax is set to the highest allowed amount, 10r, though most factions in my experience have their tax set to half that or less for members). So I would fully support raising the time limit from 3 to anywhere up to 10 days with 5-7 days seeming most reasonable.
 
Its true, the faction tax was raised but no part of the player tax was adjusted to allow factions to compensate by taxing their members more. The max should have been raised too shouldnt it have?
 
I like night's idea, of extending the inactivity timer.
 
Its just that a faction should be able to decide if they tax everyone or just active members. What if u want to have your members to feel safe and not get kicked just because their 3 day limit has been reached. why should server decide this, faction should.
 
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I would like to hear mostly from faction leaders, concerning this since it relates to them most.

- Staff have their own agenda which relates to what they want for the server so it will conflict with what [FLOAT_RIGHT][/FLOAT_RIGHT]factions want.
-Members on massive who are not faction leaders have another agenda, they want more money in their [FLOAT_RIGHT][/FLOAT_RIGHT]pocket.

anyone can comment but please state wheither u are a faction leader or not. It really makes a difference.

Thank you
 
I would like to hear mostly from faction leaders, concerning this since it relates to them most.

- Staff have their own agenda which relates to what they want for the server so it will conflict with what [FLOAT_RIGHT][/FLOAT_RIGHT]factions want.
-Members on massive who are not faction leaders have another agenda, they want more money in their [FLOAT_RIGHT][/FLOAT_RIGHT]pocket.

anyone can comment but please state wheither u are a faction leader or not. It really makes a difference.

Thank you
This is wrong on so many levels... I'm a leader of a faction, have been for a long time, and have payed literally thousands and thousands of taxes... It has nothing to do with some hidden agenda.
 
This is wrong on so many levels... I'm a leader of a faction, have been for a long time, and have payed literally thousands and thousands of taxes... It has nothing to do with some hidden agenda.
I think what archangel is saying is that, members dont want to pay tax, and would rather not pay them at all, so their argument will be mostly against this argument here, yet it isnt addressing the issue that leaders face that members DONT

This is in no way saying that everybody's opinion isnt valid. But perhaps this issue is more relevant to the faction owners, not so much the members
 
The three day limit seems like such an arbitrarily chosen number. I'm curious what the reasoning for choosing three days was.

By the servers own tech implementation, you aren't even considered "inactive" until at least a minimum of 10 days if you're a non-premium that isn't benefiting from a faction age bonus or a player age bonus. Up to 100 days if you're a premium.

Part of me would think you should be taxed so long as you're in the faction, regardless of whether or not you're considered active by the server's standards. Another part of me thinks that might be a bit unfair, but then again, if you raise an inactive premium player's taxes to 10 per day, and they remain inactive for 100 days, you'll have only gotten 1000 regals from them in 3 months and 9 days.

I support raising the tax timeout limit to 10 days. Back when Asteria had 150+ members, we were only able to tax around 40-50 of them because they were the only ones who logged on within the three day limit to not tax timeout. Even though a large majority of the rest of the 110-100 members were still considered active by the server, since they logged on within their personal timeout period, they would miss tax days because of the tax timeout limit.
 
This is wrong on so many levels... I'm a leader of a faction, have been for a long time, and have payed literally thousands and thousands of taxes... It has nothing to do with some hidden agenda.

Please don't get me wrong, who said hidden agenda, Everyone has an agenda, good or bad, unless u are dead.

Usually if your agenda is bad its hidden, kind of like propaganda, that hides the agenda.

I support freedom, let Factions decide how long ppl can be active
 
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A good reason to stop charging after three days is it to keep factions from becoming bloated zombies.
Factions that stay alive thanks to people that are no longer playing should not be a thing.
 
You're right. Not comparable. You get more from a faction than a regalian house. The tax limit should be raised to 25 regals per player.

This is why players should be taxed longer than 3 days:
They get to stay in the faction for atleast 30 days before they're kicked. They get a house, or can create their own. They get access to facilities that a faction has, like farms angd dark rooms (these facility's must maintain themselves trough tax aswell). You host game nights, and sometimes pvp events. A member has access to everything. But if you log offline, your leader has to wait till your kicked from inactivity to remove the innactive players locked chests. Sometimes innactive players take up space regardless if they've played the last 3 days or not. And us faction leaders have to pay for it.

Remind me, how many players do you have in your faction? When's the last time you've actually had to deal with members? I helped Aeris reach 100 members up till a week before the malfunction. I know exactly what it's like.

When you actually lead a legitimate faction, come back and give your comments on this thread.
Just because you have experience with a large faction doesnt mean you're an expert on it and nobody else's opinion is valid besides your own. As far as I can tell you're both in agreement on the major points so why be such an oopshead when one minor point is disagreed upon by someone who is of equal or dare I say higher standing among the community as you and throw his ideas to the curb like they're worth as much as someone who joined yesterday. Respectfully disagreeing and not making everyone else's disagreements personal will greatly help facilitate and make this discussion far more civil and productive, and we might actually get somewhere rather than turning it into a flamefest like so many threads on here. Not to mention new players might not be so turned off by the whole experience if they saw that the community actually isnt as hostile as you people make it seem. Rant aside, I do believe that something needs to happen with taxes be it raising the maximum or increasing the number of days it's collected, though I would think the second option would be better considering so many new players dont have much money to spare and it would be easier for them if they didnt have to pay a ridiculous amount like 25r every day whether they're active or not. The goal of the op was to increase the amount of regals gained over time so as to support the faction upkeep better, and the former suggestion of increasing the tax amount seems like a short term way to increase the number of regals in the bank but not as good of a long term solution as the collection over time because as I stated previously if so many players have so little regal-wise it would put far less stress on them paying 10r a day for a longer amount of days than 25r every day. Same idea as credit or layaway, small payments over time are a lot easier to make and are far less stressful than paying everything at once. Ffs I'm the leader of my faction and have several thousand regals to my name not including assests but I'd still be stressed over a 25r/day tax if I chose to set it to that amount. Also another point against the idea of higher taxes is that the majority of factions dont even have their own taxes currently configured to the maximum of 10r, so why would you increase it even further if almost nobody even meets the current maximum. Seems like an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" kind of situation to me.
 
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many good comments here I like the discussion. Just to reiterate, I would like to see the inactivity timer put in the hands of the factions not the server. the current timer is set to 3 days then the player does not have to pay tax to faction. even though no such thing exists for factions tax to the server.
 
A good reason to stop charging after three days is it to keep factions from becoming bloated zombies.
Factions that stay alive thanks to people that are no longer playing should not be a thing.


not likely to happen, most inactive players don't have much money, I know cause I have to deal with it all the time.
I want it so they automatically get kicked when they don't have money.
 
I'm not sure if anyone said this, but this could also be abused if a leader sets all their inactive players to really high then they could take all their money without them knowing, then kicking them before they become active again
 
I'm not sure if anyone said this, but this could also be abused if a leader sets all their inactive players to really high then they could take all their money without them knowing, then kicking them before they become active again

True abuse could happen, it happens under the current system. but like the current system, those factions usually wont last long, and their reputations will follow them. U don't stop innovation because u are scared, otherwise u will never innovate.