Small Complaint. Don't Hurt Me Pls.

[A_Miner_Problem]

I hope I don't piss anyone off by saying this, and I hope I put this in the right spot, but there's a part of the Maiar wiki page that I kind of have issues with.

"Some scholars theorize that the Maiar evolve so quickly because of some massive magical event that took place in their past. Yet nobody has been able to figure out what this event could have been, or how and why it occurred so deep in the ocean."

Earlier in the year, I posted a bit of now rejected lore on the origins of Maiar evolution. I was then told that they didn't want an origin story and that it was supposed to remain a mystery.

That's all fine and good. But the fact that it's even brought up in the wiki just bothers me.

My point is: If you don't want an answer, why ask the question? If you point out a mystery, people are going to try and solve it and provide explanations for it. Either state on the wiki that you do not want an answer, or just don't ask the question.

I do not mean to offend, and I hope this criticism is taken as constructive.

A good day to you all.

 

[OldManJ98]

I hope I don't piss anyone off by saying this, and I hope I put this in the right spot, but there's a part of the Maiar wiki page that I kind of have issues with.

"Some scholars theorize that the Maiar evolve so quickly because of some massive magical event that took place in their past. Yet nobody has been able to figure out what this event could have been, or how and why it occurred so deep in the ocean."

Earlier in the year, I posted a bit of now rejected lore on the origins of Maiar evolution. I was then told that they didn't want an origin story and that it was supposed to remain a mystery.

That's all fine and good. But the fact that it's even brought up in the wiki just bothers me.

My point is: If you don't want an answer, why ask the question? If you point out a mystery, people are going to try and solve it and provide explanations for it. Either state on the wiki that you do not want an answer, or just don't ask the question.

I do not mean to offend, and I hope this criticism is taken as constructive.

A good day to you all.

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The purpose of that is so that it remains a mystery. If they wanted an answer, they would have provided it

 

[A_Miner_Problem]

The purpose of that is so that it remains a mystery. If they wanted an answer, they would have provided it

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That's why I said "Either state that you don't want an answer or just don't ask the question". It saves from headaches on both sides.

When you have an entire community involved in the creation of your lore, it must be explicitly stated what you do and don't want answered.

This isn't like a film, book, or triple-A videogame where you can just present mysteries and leave people wondering and give answers on your own time, people will try to answer your mysteries when you let them create so much of your world.

 

[leafnosedbat]

What if it's there to allow scientist/scholar characters something to work on?

 

[A_Miner_Problem]

What if it's there to allow scientist/scholar characters something to work on?

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Can't be. Because it was explicitly stated to me that they want to keep it a mystery.

 

[leafnosedbat]

Can't be. Because it was explicitly stated to me that they want to keep it a mystery.

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Just because it's kept a mystery now doesn't mean that new information can't surface later. A dedicated role-player might even be able to make a minor discovery. Or perhaps a major expedition will unearth some startling new evidence?

 

[A_Miner_Problem]

Just because it's kept a mystery now doesn't mean that new information can't surface later. A dedicated role-player might even be able to make a minor discovery. Or perhaps a major expedition will unearth some startling new evidence?

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Hard to do that if there's nothing to discover. I /tried/ to provide a few clues with ancient ruins with weird stuff in them, but they didn't accept it.

 

[Neon_57]

I can see it may be a tad annoying in some cases. To me I always liked a good mystery.

I see it as:

Keeping it a mystery gives scholars/curious people something to study IC. Even if they arnt going to ever reveal it or want it revealed it doesn't meen that people cant research it IC.

Also leaving it up for mystery could mean at a later date they may want to reveal it. But for the time being leaving it at a "what do you think" mystery.

 

[MonMarty]

The point of the wiki is to entice people to actively wonder about the lore. Not to give all the answers.

 

[Annju]

I see it as a rhetorical question..
One that's supposed to make you see the Maiar as mysterious
beings that have kept their secrets very well hidden.

Rhetorical questions also aren't supposed to really be answered,
but posed as a topic to stop and think about as you smell the flowers.
Ya know?​

 

[A_Miner_Problem]

Then at least say on the wiki that you do not want the question answered. Seriously, it's not obvious on the page. It will save on headaches and misunderstandings.

I know you're trying to inspire wonder, so I suggest that you make that bit of trivia a little more subtle, perhaps put it in the history section, or like a skip in their recorded history. It's the subtle things that make you /really/ wonder.

The point of the wiki is to entice people to actively wonder about the lore. Not to give all the answers.

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I'm not saying the wiki should have /all/ the answers, it's just the questions that bother me.

Also, I thought the wiki was to educate roleplayers on existing lore.

Something I'd also suggest is to put up existing theories about the event. Not genuine fact, but just theories suggested by users. This can make more wonder as to which is correct, or if /any/ of them may be correct. This can lead to interesting roleplay between academics, scholars, and other intellectual characters, because these theories would be readily available for use in conversation.

 

[MrHappyTinkles]

-snip-

>Something I'd also suggest is to put up existing theories about the event. Not genuine fact, but just theories suggested by users. This can make more wonder as to which is correct, or if /any/ of them may be correct. This can lead to interesting roleplay between academics, scholars, and other intellectual characters, because these theories would be readily available for use in conversation.

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You can do this entirely in roleplay. There's nothing stopping your character from making his/her own theories towards a particular event, and projecting it onto others; a wiki suggesting multiple theories to adhere to would get in the way of formulating unique self-made conclusions.

 

[A_Miner_Problem]

You can do this entirely in roleplay. There's nothing stopping your character from making his/her own theories towards a particular event, and projecting it onto others; a wiki suggesting multiple theories to adhere to would get in the way of formulating unique self-made conclusions.

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I know you can do that, but it can be just as interesting to discuss existing theories. Think of it like discussing the theories of brilliant physicists over the crackpot theories of that nutjob who wears tinfoil on his head. Not everyone can come up with good theories for the mysteries provided.
Just like real life, it would be most reasonable to adhere to the popular theories unless you can think of a different one. Then by all means, share your idea.

 

[MonMarty]

I know you can do that, but it can be just as interesting to discuss existing theories. Think of it like discussing the theories of brilliant physicists over the crackpot theories of that nutjob who wears tinfoil on his head. Not everyone can come up with good theories for the mysteries provided.
Just like real life, it would be most reasonable to adhere to the popular theories unless you can think of a different one. Then by all means, share your idea.

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which argues in favor of not giving mysteries because some people can't form proper theories?

I really don't understand your train of logic or problem with an optional clause.

 

[A_Miner_Problem]

which argues in favor of not giving mysteries because some people can't form proper theories?

I really don't understand your train of logic or problem with an optional clause.

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This train of logic.

But seriously, I'm not saying to not give mysteries. I could have worded that a little better.
I'm not arguing against having them, I'm just trying to find ways to improve how they are presented.
Sorry if I sounded a bit aggressive and overly critical.

*choot choot*

 

[Feyona]

This train of logic.

But seriously, I'm not saying to not give mysteries. I could have worded that a little better.
I'm not arguing against having them, I'm just trying to find ways to improve how they are presented.
Sorry if I sounded a bit aggressive and overly critical.

*choot choot*

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It's for the same reason that not much information on the Meriac is given other than to prequel the limited knowledge that the Mekket have of their original design and purpose. It is information that no one could possibly have in game, that isn't recorded by any scholars, etc. It's "irrelevant" (perhaps this isn't the correct word because technically no official lore is irrelevant imo) information as it wouldn't help character development and the only way it would be used in game would be via metagaming from the wiki.

 

[A_Miner_Problem]

It's for the same reason that not much information on the Meriac is given other than to prequel the limited knowledge that the Mekket have of their original design and purpose. It is information that no one could possibly have in game, that isn't recorded by any scholars, etc. It's "irrelevant" (perhaps this isn't the correct word because technically no official lore is irrelevant imo) information as it wouldn't help character development and the only way it would be used in game would be via metagaming from the wiki.

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What does any of this have to do with character development...?

I'm not asking for all the answers, I'm not asking for the absolute truth, I'm asking for in-character theories based on existing in-character knowledge. Surely there are intellectual/scholarly /academic characters who do show interest in unraveling these mysteries and I'm sure that through this they can actually get recognition /other/ than word of mouth, which doesn't actually travel well.

No, these theories are not the genuine truth of the MassiveCraft universe, they could all be totally false for all I care, but it can provide interesting talk between Alorian historians, archaeologists, and scientists.

This can allow for people to expand upon other people's theories by adding on their own views on it.

 

[MrHappyTinkles]

-snip-

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Forgive me if I sound overbearing, but none of your arguments make sense and appear to run on points made of thin air. If you wanted in-character theories, then you're asking the wrong people; you need to ask the people who are making those theories in character. Asking to have conjecture that might be false listed on the wiki defeats its (what I believe) purpose, which I think is there to provide reliable lore information for people to use when developing their own characters, and in extension, theories they might believe. Having 'what-ifs' could very well bring focus away from the information that people need in order to weave together a good back-story.

 

[Feyona]

What does any of this have to do with character development...?

I'm not asking for all the answers, I'm not asking for the absolute truth, I'm asking for in-character theories based on existing in-character knowledge. Surely there are intellectual/scholarly /academic characters who do show interest in unraveling these mysteries and I'm sure that through this they can actually get recognition /other/ than word of mouth, which doesn't actually travel well.

No, these theories are not the genuine truth of the MassiveCraft universe, they could all be totally false for all I care, but it can provide interesting talk between Alorian historians, archaeologists, and scientists.

This can allow for people to expand upon other people's theories by adding on their own views on it.

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In-character theories used by characters who are still alive and actively played do not belong on the wiki. Generally the only canonized characters are ones who have made extreme contributions to society and are dead, or living and approved nobility. While you may wish to theorize these things, player-submitted lore are for submissions that people intend to have canonized and put on the wiki as absolute truth, not theory, unless it's posted AS theory, and as I said, the rule for 'alive/actively played characters' applies.

As I said, you can theorize these things in game, but they do not belong in the player-submitted lore if it isn't intended to become actual history. And when we've said the history isn't needed, or isn't going to be expanded upon, then there is no real reason to publish it.

 

[A_Miner_Problem]

In-character theories uscters who are still alive and actively played do not belong on the wiki. Generally the only canonized characters are ones who have made extreme contributions to society and are dead, or living and approved nobility. While you may wish to theorize these things, player-submitted lore are for submissions that people intend to have canonized and put on the wiki as absolute truth, not theory, unless it's posted AS theory, and as I said, the rule for 'alive/actively played characters' applies.

As I said, you can theorize these things in game, but they do not belong in the player-submitted lore if it isn't intended to become actual history. And when we've said the history isn't needed, or isn't going to be expanded upon, then there is no real reason to publish it.

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Then have a page that is dedicated to theories, I guess. Not a part of actual lore, but something in-universe for people to work off of, Give something for an academic to study, a scholar to theorize and expand upon, and for an intellectual to debate and discuss.

Theorizing in-character is harder than it seems, a lot of it can end up just being pulling stuff out of your rectum and hoping for the best because there's not much existing information to work with at times. Give people something to wonder about, but also let them have fun with it. No sense wondering if you can't do anything with it. We do this all the time in real life, we rarely come up with our own theories, but we do expand upon existing ones that make the most sense to us.
Darwin's theory of evolution, Einstein's theory of general relativity, string theory, the Big Bang, and the hot mess that is quantum mechanics, for examples; all of them are constantly being expanded upon to this very day. Have your theories made by dead people if you want, but give it enough information to let others work with it and make it a tool in roleplay.

Again, I do not mean to sound standoffish, rude, or unreasonable; I just want something for the intellectual to talk about and to avoid headaches from these types of misunderstandings in the long run.