Should The Dread Empire Be More Sympathetic?

[indyfan98]

I'm considering playing a Kathar who is loyal to the Dread Empire. However, one thing grinds me the wrong way: the Dread Empire has no redeeming qualities. They are, put simply, the bad guys. Not that Regalia is inherently good, but the Dread Empire is made out to be a huge villain. Without getting into politics, I will say that every group throughout history thinks of themselves as the "good guys" no matter what they do to get their way. I'll use non-real world examples, however.

Javert from Les Miserables sees himself as a hero. He is the antagonist, but not the villain.

The Thalmor from The Elder Scrolls, despite how they are portrayed in Skyrim, do have sympathetic motives if you read into the lore.

So, where does that leave the Kathar and the Dread Empire? Read as I might, I cannot find anything truly redeeming about them. They are mustache twirling villains. So, should it be this way? If not, what could be done to make them more relatable?

 

[AtticCat]

I mean they do have redeeming qualities in the eyes of Void Worshippers and Kathar- they're trying to take over more parts of the world and spread their culture and religion.

It's the same as Regalia, just Regalia feels threatened by them. Unionist Regalians want to take over more of Aloria and spread their culture, influence, and religion. Even looking closer into Regalia, you see things like this such as the Velheimer and Calembergers constantly fighting over land because they want to keep their worship and culture their. The calembergers see Velheimers as villains with no redeeming qualities a lot of the time and vise versa.

The Dread Empire does have a reason for doing what their doing, and for those that follow what they believe see them as heros while Regalia is stopping them from spread the influence that Kathar see as good. You just don't see this side very often in Regalia because most Regalians don't want what they have overthrown by another force and so everyone paints them as evil. You know, like people do in the real world.

 

[gnomery]

Sure, they have reason for what they're doing, but there literally is no redeemable factor for them. Sacrificing, blood thirsty, violence-for-the-sake-of-violence villains. It's comedic almost, and I like the lore, but there should definitely be something that's good about them. There's nothing realistic about them, lol. They can't be compared to an IRL nation or culture because of how purely evil they are.
I wouldn't say I want them to be sympathetic. But they should definitely be less of "mustache-twirling villains".

 

[Yoggery]

I think Kathar might be able to have some redeeming qualities, but note the world see them as evil, they follow the void which is seen as evil, and the Dread Empire is pretty much at war with every other state including the Regalian Empire. There is a form of Kathar that goes against the grain of the void and Dread Empire known as Lightburners. Blonde Saivales essentially that fight the Dread Empire as insurrectionists by tearing it apart from within. (Here's a link directly to the variant my guy https://wiki.massivecraft.com/Kathar#Variant_of_Lightburning ) However, even then they probably too have at least a few not so good qualities.

 

[Film_Noir]

I think that the Kathar were made so that Regalians could unite to fight an "evil". If you want to play a sorcerer, demon kind of character, play a Kathar. There are plenty of "non-evil", more realistic antagonists of the Regalian Empire, though. For example, the Songaskians, who aren't "demonic evil" but are just competitors. The Calemberger versus Velheimer conflict, as mentioned, is another example of a more internal kind of war.

Summary: I think that the Kathar are probably the one race (on the whole) where they have no redeeming qualities (seen by the rest of the world) besides sharing a kinship with each other. You play them if you want to play an "evil" character.

 

[Vegemiite]

Kathar are a highly religious people who put a lot of faith in the Prefects and Gods of the Void. All their sacrifices and violence is generally ritual based to appease the Void and their gods for powers and ecstasy. A good 90% or even more of their crimes is murder based which I suppose the violence comes in, but when they're raised in such a society it's pretty normal. They hate dishonest crimes such as thievery as they're generally honest and open, making them easy to gain the trust of.

They view themselves as the only race that has evolved from their primitive selves thanks to the gifts of the Void and sees themselves as the rightful heirs to the world just like the Altalar do. They enslave and conquer to spread their religion and possibly "redeem" the other races in a way by giving them a better purpose.

You also have to look at how Kathar treat each other. Generally it's in good light unless due to the rituals or reasons to compete against each other. Even with families, they're all so close that cousins are even considered to the point of being treated as siblings. They're tight knit and will aid each other. Kathar have plenty of questionable qualities and actions, but they're all supported by their mindsets. They think they're doing right in the world like everyone else is.

 

[Conflee]

Im going to give it a solid maybe because in the event this war ever actually escalates theres never going to be good reason for non-Kathar to support the Dread Empire, which makes their defeat seem all the more guaranteed OOC and will push everyone even further from siding with them. Its not good for an antagonistic force- IF its meant to ever come into the Regalian scene. If not, if they stay a war-progression only antagonist force, then they are alright.

 

[FireFan96]

The Dread Empire is just a Void Worshipping superpower that rivals Regalia. They're self sufficient and are able to hold back the Altalar and Regalian armies without a sweat. As for redeeming qualities, Void Worship isn't necessarily an evil religion. It just so happens that it's a polar opposite to most other faiths so it is viewed as the ultimate evil.

The narrative circulates around the Regalian Empire, so everything you see is from the Regalian point of view. If the Dread Empire was the narrative focus, you might see the Regalian Empire as backwater slaves that are egotistical invaders. Glorified raiders that happened to defeat the weaker Allorn successor states. Meanwhile the Kathar have been able to hold off threats from their borders against their ignorant cousins and foreigners alike, and finally decided it's time to take back what is theirs.

 

[AtticCat]

I want to add. Though sacrificing is, yes, a pretty nasty thing, there are plenty of real world religions that did things like that and it was just seen as the norm. That's how the Kathar see it, meanwhile the Unionists generally (focusing on the main Sancella rather than the cultist Unionists) don't do that.

So it would be like Christians looking at Aztecs. Both are trying to worship their God(s), but in the eyes of one the other seems barbaric.

 

[AlphaInsomnia]

I think you're trying to seek good when you should lower your expectation.

Yes, they sacrifice and murder. So do the Velheim.

They have an overzealous religion. So do Unionists.

They live hedonistic lifestyles, but the Hidden Dragon wasn't made for the Kathar only.

But these are cultural things, not so much mindset of the people. I personally believe the best villain is one who has a point, and makes sense. A mad scientist who kills for fun? Pretty one dimensional. A scientist who creates a virus to kill off all the B bloodtype people and reduce the world population and hopefully stall overpopulation some? They'd have a point, and it may be cruel but they have a solution.

Apply this to the Kathar. And like all cultural divides, its mostly due to religion. The Kathar worship the void, a corruption so to speak, and all their gods are mostly taken from other pantheons and "corrupted". Their worship is lust and pride and trickery, all things other religions generally frown upon.

But that might be the point.

In some ways, these religions tell you how to live your life. The Creeds are all laid out, the Old Gods unions teach how a person should be. The Kathar reject this, and though it has hurt them, they can now live in a world of near anarchy free of these religious shackles and engage in their own hedonistic desires.

In a way, they liberated themselves of restriction. They don't want to be 'slaves to the will of the Spirit, or Estel, or the Gods', so they reject their teachings in direct contest to these. Albeit they created a religion about it, but it'd be a point to consider.