Archived Revamping Pvp

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BenRekt

BenRekt

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As a serious response to "can Massive become what it once was?" from @North , here is my serious response on potential ideas that I think will almost definitely encourage PvP. They are dramatic but I think some of these need to be done otherwise PvP will continue its slow but steady decline.

  • Complete removal of McMMO
  • Significantly increase the cost of buying a faction and a minor decrease of faction upkeep / tax cost
  • Force factions to surrender if they make no genuine efforts to actually defend themselves
  • Create a temporary server shop where people can sell their EXTREME surplus of god gear and weapons for higher prices than the dirt cheap price they are now
  • Finish and implement Silverwind so RPers can have fun as well (not a must, but something a LOT of player really want, though I know @MonMarty and the team ARE working hard and have a lot on their plate)
These are all very self-exclamatory and anyone who has played here for a decent amount of time can understand why these would be beneficial, but if you need an explanation please ask.

Tagging relevant people
@FubeTheMangler @jquaile @Alj23 @jes_ @Knyxor @Chappers65 @HeartAched @North @Joshy54100

@Sevak
 
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Mecharic said:
Oh I agree fully. But it needs to be said "in theory" because it's never been done. MassiveCraft has never set up a Staff Shop to drain materials/supplies/weapons/armor while pumping regals into the server. I still think they need to have a "Great War" of some sort where "Regalia" (staff shops) buy as much survival stuff as can be sold to them in exchange for a limited amount of money (like, only a little bit more than the market value). It would go a long way to balancing the economy, if what you want is higher prices & more valuable items.
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Absolutely agree
 
Thanks for the tag, Benrekt. I like most of the suggestions besides the McMMO one, not just because I benefit more from my McMMO (I have over 22k stats overall) but I find grinding it very rewarding for some reason, if they took away all benefits of mcmmo like axe damage, sword damage, skull split/serrated strikes. (All PvP McMMO related things.) I'd be perfectly okay with that. McMMO gives me something to do and has a lot of positive and passive benefits. I just like the idea of McMMO (I find it fun), and I've spent 4.3 years grinding it and so have many of my friends.. I'd be very annoyed and pretty pissed off if it was just completely wiped overall. I hope we can find a compromise that is something other than completely wiping the McMMO system, I can only assume you know it'd piss people off.
 
About the subject of raising faction costs and lowering taxes, I'm all for. I miss the times when you actually had to grind quite a while to earn yourself the reward of owning a faction. They want less factions, but charge literally nothing for it. When I first joined, if you wanted a faction you had to work for it, by joining another faction and working your way up. I guess I have to understand that it'll never be like it was ever again. Like the ideas though Ben.
 
HeartAched said:
Thanks for the tag, Benrekt. I like most of the suggestions besides the McMMO one, not just because I benefit more from my McMMO (I have over 22k stats overall) but I find grinding it very rewarding for some reason, if they took away all benefits of mcmmo like axe damage, sword damage, skull split/serrated strikes. (All PvP McMMO related things.) I'd be perfectly okay with that. McMMO gives me something to do and has a lot of positive and passive benefits. I just like the idea of McMMO (I find it fun), and I've spent 4.3 years grinding it and so have many of my friends.. I'd be very annoyed and pretty pissed off if it was just completely wiped overall. I hope we can find a compromise that is something other than completely wiping the McMMO system, I can only assume you know it'd piss people off.
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I entirely agree with this, I can't say I PVP much anymore, as I've grown out of it and enjoy roleplay a lot more. But I can't fathom the thought that all of you actually believe if MCMMO was wiped entirely off the server that it would benefit anyone. I believe it would entirely ruin the experience and I also don't think MCMMO is enough of a problem to consort to wiping it to fix any issues. What problems come from it are rather minimal, aye you get a little food buff, you do a bit more dmg with swords, mining gives you explosive reduction, (even though in god armor creepers do 0 DMG) but I couldn't actually see Massive entirely wiping it, and I personally would be rather upset if I woke up and my 19500 power level was just gone, as I've spent years grinding all my stats above 1k
 
But at the same time, I could see a few stats changed, a few things taken out here and there, but removing everything beneficial from MCMMO is rather useless, it defeats the purpose of the plugin. What it sounds like you all want is a Vanilla map with factions and no MCMMO.
 
Brycea111 said:
But at the same time, I could see a few stats changed, a few things taken out here and there, but removing everything beneficial from MCMMO is rather useless, it defeats the purpose of the plugin. What it sounds like you all want is a Vanilla map with factions and no MCMMO.
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Agreed. Maybe a minor nerf/tweaking of a few things, but full wipe is a little much.
 
There needs to be a compromise, I really hope staff looks at this thread and takes suggestions. I'd be absolutely furious to wake up one day seeing my 22k power level gone just like that.
 
HeartAched said:
There needs to be a compromise, I really hope staff looks at this thread and takes suggestions. I'd be absolutely furious to wake up one day seeing my 22k power level gone just like that.
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Brycea111 said:
I entirely agree with this, I can't say I PVP much anymore, as I've grown out of it and enjoy roleplay a lot more. But I can't fathom the thought that all of you actually believe if MCMMO was wiped entirely off the server that it would benefit anyone. I believe it would entirely ruin the experience and I also don't think MCMMO is enough of a problem to consort to wiping it to fix any issues. What problems come from it are rather minimal, aye you get a little food buff, you do a bit more dmg with swords, mining gives you explosive reduction, (even though in god armor creepers do 0 DMG) but I couldn't actually see Massive entirely wiping it, and I personally would be rather upset if I woke up and my 19500 power level was just gone, as I've spent years grinding all my stats above 1k
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How useful are PvP McMMO stats when every single person already has maxed stats? It's rather pointless when maxing out your stats is literally just one of the BASIC requirements to simply BEGIN PvP.

Not to mention that it completely discourages new players from PvPing, and makes it so people who bring their friends on have to grind, or leave, which most people choose the latter.
 
BenRekt said:
How useful are PvP McMMO stats when every single person already has maxed stats? It's rather pointless when maxing out your stats is literally just one of the BASIC requirements to simply BEGIN PvP.

Not to mention that it completely discourages new players from PvPing, and makes it so people who bring their friends on have to grind, or leave, which most people choose the latter.
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That's why I said a compromise of removing all PvP McMMO aspects, Axes, Swords, Bows, Unarmed so that players can keep their I guess whatever they call the other stats that don't effect pvp in any way. It'd get new players an easier start without having to spend endless hours grinding their McMMO PvP stats. I'd hate to see my PvP stats gone but if it benefits the server and gets more people to join and stay I'm all for it. But quite honestly judging from past decisions, I feel like the whole system will be wiped, just because yanno.
 
I'd say I'd prefer removing only the PvP stats. The passive ones don't really make a huge deal. Maybe nerf farm's diet and the one from fishing that makes you eat more, but other than that just leave it be.

Repair would also be a good thing to nerf, but not remove.
 
I wouldn't completely remove MCMMO. I have to agree with Zac's point.

I think the faction cost increase with a decrease of upkeep is a great idea. But with as many people who are already discouraged to be in factions as there are, I'm not sure if this would be a good time for the change right now.

Forcing players to pay a surrender fee is a terrible idea. You're basically making PvP necessary to play in factions without going broke. I could totally see word being passed down the grapevine to other PvP factions, intentionally or not, about easy to raid factions for a quick buck. Imagine larger factions like, I don't know, lets say Tyberia. If they decided not to defend themselves, they're forced to pay a hefty fee simply because they wanted to play factions in another style. I for one have always had fun PvPing, hell I use to run at Raptum when they raided NorthWatch till I ran out of god axes. Several of my members didn't share the sentiment and after two or three deaths grew disheartened and just logged or stayed underground. I can't fault them, they didn't have much. You're giving factions the choice to either pay/spend time on getting PvP gear or pay a fee. Either way they're paying. Can't support this.

I'm interested in the shop idea and can almost get behind it seeing as almost no one actually buys PvP gear anymore. I personally would prefer some sort of salvage command that gave you X amount of regals for each enchantment based on the level. III=30 regals. II=20. I don't know which would be easier to implement to be honest.

Lastly, I can't wait for Silverwind. I'm not sure on the status of it, but it'd be great place to learn PvP and give people a place to PvP with no risk all the while getting a chance at rewards.
 
Brycea111 said:
But at the same time, I could see a few stats changed, a few things taken out here and there, but removing everything beneficial from MCMMO is rather useless, it defeats the purpose of the plugin. What it sounds like you all want is a Vanilla map with factions and no MCMMO.
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The so called end game.
 
only thing i disagree with is forcing people to surrender, some raiders complain too if factions defend using traps and siege buildings. i'm a better red stoner than i am a pvper.... and there's got to be a way to balance out fairness in pvp... i used to be pretty "good" until i lost my fiber internet from my dad... so as a pvper my game barely functions and i disconnect (instant death) often because i was forced to move to the middle of nowhere due to economy crashing in my hometown. (it was pretty bad, we were gonna lose our home, and about 2,000 other people did.) rest is pretty good though...
 
Just a quick reply, but guys the game has also changed, the pvp chance back in 1.8 made it more difficult to pvp and a lot of pvpers went inactive, i have played on Massivecraft in like 3 years now, and i have seen the evolution of Massivecraft pvp, everyone that used to pvp back then miss races (Me too) but 1.6 and 1.7 was also better to pvp on,
The traits update was like a help to pvpers that wasn't that good, but the guys that was actually good at pvping got downgraded, and traits was a bit buggy with the mcmmo.
But i think massive is the most easiest server to get loot on, the prices is at the lowest right now. And it could be nice to bring the old 20vs20 battles back :3

- Laur7391
 
I hate to be a stick in the mud but you can't bring Massive back to the way it was and it's not really the staffs fault at all. The problem is with Minecraft itself the 1.9 update chased a lot of pvpers away from Minecraft myself included and although Massive has a hybrid of the old and new it doesn't really matter if people aren't even looking into MC for their PVP anymore. Like, you can advertise it all you want and revert everything to a completely Vanilla 1.7 state but if it's falling on deaf ears it's a fruitless effort.

People need to just learn to accept what you have. If you love to PVP then just do it ffs and stop trying to constantly change everything because I can assure you constant changes are much more detrimental to the community. The game is getting older and losing popularity so just like every other game the community is gonna become much smaller. The best thing and pretty much only thing you can do is just continue to advertise the PVP side and keep encouraging people that don't PVP to give it a shot.

The only people who have the power to kill Massive PVP is the Massive community itself.
 
Jackmo_Jones said:
I hate to be a stick in the mud but you can't bring Massive back to the way it was and it's not really the staffs fault at all. The problem is with Minecraft itself the 1.9 update chased a lot of pvpers away from Minecraft myself included and although Massive has a hybrid of the old and new it doesn't really matter if people aren't even looking into MC for their PVP anymore. Like, you can advertise it all you want and revert everything to a completely Vanilla 1.7 state but if it's falling on deaf ears it's a fruitless effort.

People need to just learn to accept what you have. If you love to PVP then just do it ffs and stop trying to constantly change everything because I can assure you constant changes are much more detrimental to the community. The game is getting older and losing popularity so just like every other game the community is gonna become much smaller. The best thing and pretty much only thing you can do is just continue to advertise the PVP side and keep encouraging people that don't PVP to give it a shot.

The only people who have the power to kill Massive PVP is the Massive community itself.
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On the other hand, 1.9 made pvp better for some people that didn't like pvp before. So if those people are pvpers now, they aren't going to stick around because Massivecraft doesn't incorporate the changes in 1.9.
 
Celeras said:
On the other hand, 1.9 made pvp better for some people that didn't like pvp before. So if those people are pvpers now, they aren't going to stick around because Massivecraft doesn't incorporate the changes in 1.9.
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This is 100% correct and I've touched on this before. The people that are still into MC and do like to PVP with 1.9 mechanics they come to Massive and see the old spammy way of fighting and instantly say screw it that's no fun. Then you have the people who do like spammy combat not even caring about MC anymore and not even looking into new servers because they are playing other games now. Massive always caters to it's older players who I'll admit are like myself and completely stuck in the past and unwilling to change but more and more of us go inactive and we're really not the demographic that people should be focusing on. At the same time us spammy folks are all Massive has at the moment so changing to 1.9 would likely run all them off too.

Kinda one of those damned if you do damned if you don't situations.
 
BenRekt said:
As a serious response to "can Massive become what it once was?" from @North , here is my serious response on potential ideas that I think will almost definitely encourage PvP. They are dramatic but I think some of these need to be done otherwise PvP will continue its slow but steady decline.

  • Complete removal of McMMO
  • Significantly increase the cost of buying a faction and a minor decrease of faction upkeep / tax cost
  • Force factions to surrender if they make no genuine efforts to actually defend themselves
  • Create a temporary server shop where people can sell their EXTREME surplus of god gear and weapons for higher prices than the dirt cheap price they are now
  • Finish and implement Silverwind so RPers can have fun as well (not a must, but something a LOT of player really want, though I know @MonMarty and the team ARE working hard and have a lot on their plate)
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McMMO will not be completely removed but alternatives may be reviewed.

We will be reviewing the second suggestion as we re-review Factions suggestions.

Please explain further what you imply by forcing factions to surrender. Is this in relation to raids? Wars? What are the consequences of the surrender?

I have taken some time reviewing the amount of God Gear in the system and have come to the conclusion that implementing an admin shop would be extremely detrimental BECAUSE of the sheer amount. Some individuals have over 30 double chests and could rake in 81,000 regals or more in a sitting with us buying back god gear even at a dirt cheap price. We are reviewing other ways to get some of these items out of the system though.

Silverwind is currently on the backburner since we are currently working on Job Island, MassiveMagic, and more recently Factions.
 
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