Archived Remove Enderpearls

[Mecharic]

With the recent removal of Pacifist, I believe a change to balance PvP once again is in order. The removal of enderpearls has been suggested before, but let us revisit it now. Enderpearls have always made walls basically useless, unless they are ridiculously high. But that was someone most folks who deal with, because they didn't run the risk of losing everything when their walls were ignored. But now that is no longer possible, so my compromise: removal of enderpearls to balance the removal of pacifist. Here's how it helps both sides:

Roleplayers/Peaceful: Now your walls are useful and you can actually consider yourself safe within them. No more can people just ignore them with a well-aimed pearl, and no longer do they need to be so tall it just looks stupid. Now even an 8 block wall can keep out enemies, allowing your small village to have a realistic-sized wall and be fully secure for construction and peaceful roleplay. Archers will also be able to safely (ok, somewhat safely) fire arrows from the walls, increasing the RP aspect of PvP.

PvPers/Aggressive: So you're chasing this jerk who just ran in, killed like 4 of your newer members, and booked it out. Now they can't pearl away and you can catch them, fight them, and otherwise actually succeed in defending yourselves. But that's not all! Now you too, can have walls that keep your base safe, making it harder for enemies to storm the gates and keeping those pesky fights out of your farmland or training grounds. Since PvPers like to, well, PvP, you'll almost certainly answer the challenge at your gate and sally forth from your city. It also gives archery some relevance to PvP, as an archer on a wall can now safely target enemies - increasing strategy in PvP.

Staff: It'll shut up both sides because PvPers get to keep their precious pacifist removed while roleplayers get to keep their security.

I think that removing enderpearls would be a good way to balance the removal of pacifist, which tips survival into the favor of PvPers.

 

[gridiron1024]

Removing a key part of high level pvp is really a bad idea, unless you want to kill pvp of course. If you really can't handle dying, use your backpack as an inventory.

 

[TheTerrawr]

With the recent removal of Pacifist, I believe a change to balance PvP once again is in order. The removal of enderpearls has been suggested before, but let us revisit it now. Enderpearls have always made walls basically useless, unless they are ridiculously high. But that was someone most folks who deal with, because they didn't run the risk of losing everything when their walls were ignored. But now that is no longer possible, so my compromise: removal of enderpearls to balance the removal of pacifist. Here's how it helps both sides:

Roleplayers/Peaceful: Now your walls are useful and you can actually consider yourself safe within them. No more can people just ignore them with a well-aimed pearl, and no longer do they need to be so tall it just looks stupid. Now even an 8 block wall can keep out enemies, allowing your small village to have a realistic-sized wall and be fully secure for construction and peaceful roleplay. Archers will also be able to safely (ok, somewhat safely) fire arrows from the walls, increasing the RP aspect of PvP.

PvPers/Aggressive: So you're chasing this jerk who just ran in, killed like 4 of your newer members, and booked it out. Now they can't pearl away and you can catch them, fight them, and otherwise actually succeed in defending yourselves. But that's not all! Now you too, can have walls that keep your base safe, making it harder for enemies to storm the gates and keeping those pesky fights out of your farmland or training grounds. Since PvPers like to, well, PvP, you'll almost certainly answer the challenge at your gate and sally forth from your city. It also gives archery some relevance to PvP, as an archer on a wall can now safely target enemies - increasing strategy in PvP.

Staff: It'll shut up both sides because PvPers get to keep their precious pacifist removed while roleplayers get to keep their security.

I think that removing enderpearls would be a good way to balance the removal of pacifist, which tips survival into the favor of PvPers.

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Um no. As a good 99% of server PVP would be removed due to 99% of bases being unraidable.

Also, your tone throughout this entire article is rather unpleasant.

 

[Art16]

The argument is pointless. Pvpers are going to attack and raid no matter what reasons you come up with. Just build a safe house so where in your faction and hide in it until the raiders go away. That simple.

 

[Mecharic]

@gridiron1024 - Why can't you compromise? All of the non-PvPers just lost one of their largest safety nets and all you can do is be greedy and demand that you get everything to help PvP. You want to take away the 30% faction, don't want to give up a completely illogical tool that makes walls useless, and are hardlining against even a moderated form of pacifist. I don't get it, I used to think you were a voice of moderation - but all I see now is another PvPer who serves nothing but their own ends.

@Art16 - I know they will attack, but by removing enderpearls it allows RPers to RP outside of their safe houses. You wouldn't want to spend all day inside a small safe house because of attackers, would you? I doubt it, so don't demand others suffer so you can enjoy yourself.

 

[gridiron1024]

@Mecharic
A bit hypocritical conseriding every post you have made is anti pvp. Regardless of that, suggesting to remove things from pvp is best left to the pvpers. If you don't know anything about pvp, you best not suggest what to remove. Enderpearls are a huge part of pvp, removing it would kill pvp. That would be like me saying remove local chat from RP.

 

[Rooseus]

I completly support this idea, and everything mecharic has stated makes sence!

 

[Alj23]

I think for the future if I raid someone, I will just set up a macro that links the person I am talking with to the link of Raid and Tributes Rules. Something along the line of "Just consider surrendering! (link)" And I will just continue to link that every time they complain.

 

[TheTerrawr]

@Mecharic you want a compromise,here is one. A siege plugin.

Let me get up tomorrow, and I'll write up what I think should be included. Walls where not indestructible inmedieval times.

 

[Mecharic]

@Mecharic you want a compromise,here is one. A siege plugin.

Let me get up tomorrow, and I'll write up what I think should be included. Walls where not indestructible inmedieval times.

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I'd love to see a siege plugin. Hell, I'd pay good money for it.

 

[TheTerrawr]

I'd love to see a siege plugin. Hell, I'd pay good money for it.

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If ender pearls where removed, and nothing was added to replace it, almost all PVP would stop. The server would die,

 

[Mecharic]

If ender pearls where removed, and nothing was added to replace it, almost all PVP would stop. The server would die,

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So what do you say in response to the fact that I consider removal of enderpearls to be a trade off for loss of pacifist?

 

[gridiron1024]

So what do you say in response to the fact that I consider removal of enderpearls to be a trade off for loss of pacifist?

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Backpack is the tradeoff for pacifist. Removing enderpearls is plain stupid.

 

[TheTerrawr]

So what do you say in response to the fact that I consider removal of enderpearls to be a trade off for loss of pacifist?

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That the removal of a vanilla feature, is far more limiting than the removal of a plugin.

 

[Rooseus]

I certainly think enderpearls should be removed, but a plugin has to replace it. There has to be some ways to get thought enemy walls. You should be able to blow up the enemy buildings with a cannon, but the blocks should regenerate. I know this has been suggested many times, but i just wanted to bring it up again becouse i really think it would improve the nature of the server.

 

[TheTerrawr]

I certainly think enderpearls should be removed, but a plugin has to replace it. There has to be some ways to get thought enemy walls. You should be able to blow up the enemy buildings with a cannon, but the blocks should regenerate. I know this has been suggested many times, but i just wanted to bring it up again becouse i really think it would improve the nature of the server.

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I was suggesting siege towers that removed themselves after a certain time period, or a way to tunnel under a wall, or cannons that blew a small hole. I could see the cannons being abused, so maybe make them very large, and have to have been set up for a long period before being used,

 

[Alj23]

PvPers/Aggressive: So you're chasing this jerk who just ran in, killed like 4 of your newer members, and booked it out. Now they can't pearl away and you can catch them, fight them, and otherwise actually succeed in defending yourselves. But that's not all! Now you too, can have walls that keep your base safe, making it harder for enemies to storm the gates and keeping those pesky fights out of your farmland or training grounds.

Click to shrink...

The issue was never walls, but your security of buildings and portals/doors within your base. Sure, shooting a pearl over someone's walls wasn't isn't realistic, but enderpearls are part of Minecraft. Sometimes you just have to let it be. Also, not to mention, the following things would become worthless with the removal of enderpearls...

• Endermen.
• Enderpearl chestshops. (A large amount of PVPers sell enderpearls in their shops, which is a decent source of income.)
• Enderpearl farming machines.

Also, to this specific argument..

PvPers/Aggressive: So you're chasing this jerk who just ran in, killed like 4 of your newer members, and booked it out. Now they can't pearl away and you can catch them, fight them, and otherwise actually succeed in defending yourselves.

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Believe it or not, this isn't how it usually happens in fights. For us at least. Someone runs in, either gets a kill or doesn't, realizes they need to retreat, and gets chased through the woods. If they happen to get away, they get away. And I guess if someone does a hit and run, and gets away, there's nothing you can do about it.

Also...

It also gives archery some relevance to PvP, as an archer on a wall can now safely target enemies - increasing strategy in PvP.

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Archery has been relevant and even a valued fighting position since the introduction of traits thanks to the on-hit effects. Your point is moot.

 

[Madus]

A siege like plugin. I am excited. Removal of pearls hmmm.
Is raiding really such a bid problem.

 

[Mecharic]

For a siege plugin, I think it would be interesting to have the following features:

1) 'Warclaim' - Not like the old Warclaim, this is a set of 4 chunks that can be claimed by an enemy faction - the chunks MUST be connected to both each other AND wilderness. They are editable by the faction that owns the land and by the faction with the warclaim. Blocks cannot be removed, only added, and all added blocks phase out after 30 minutes of being there. A warclaim cannot be of a faction's /f home (for obvious reasons).

2) Block Regeneration & TnT - The use of TnT is blocked to prevent grief - but what if tnt didn't have drops and wore off after 30 minutes? In this manner raiders can get through a wall but would need to expend resources and time to craft the tnt. It would also do no permanent damage to blocks, thus removing the grief factor. TnT can only be placed in Warzone.

3) Ladders - Similar to Tnt, Ladders should be placeable in warzones and would allow a storming of the walls, which I personally would find to be much more realistic than mere enderpearls.

 

[Madus]

T

• Enderpearl farming machines.

Click to shrink...

Tell me how, I want money.
Anyway I will just ask someone on teamspeak.

 

[gridiron1024]

Siege plugin = more lag. Another way to kill pvp even more.

 

[TheTerrawr]

For a siege plugin, I think it would be interesting to have the following features:

1) 'Warclaim' - Not like the old Warclaim, this is a set of 4 chunks that can be claimed by an enemy faction - the chunks MUST be connected to both each other AND wilderness. They are editable by the faction that owns the land and by the faction with the warclaim. Blocks cannot be removed, only added, and all added blocks phase out after 30 minutes of being there. A warclaim cannot be of a faction's /f home (for obvious reasons).

2) Block Regeneration & TnT - The use of TnT is blocked to prevent grief - but what if tnt didn't have drops and wore off after 30 minutes? In this manner raiders can get through a wall but would need to expend resources and time to craft the tnt. It would also do no permanent damage to blocks, thus removing the grief factor. TnT can only be placed in Warzone.

3) Ladders - Similar to Tnt, Ladders should be placeable in warzones and would allow a storming of the walls, which I personally would find to be much more realistic than mere enderpearls.

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1- just claim the chunk outside the wall?

2- Laaaaaaaag

3- Yes. All of my.

 

[Sarge_Peppers]

I agree to the concept, but disagree with the practice. I think it is problematic if you are minding your own business building or doing something in your faction land, and someone comes in and guerrilla raids. You should not have to suffer the consequences of losing all your building mats. I feel like the happy medium has been broken between rprs and pvprs.

 

[keylan118]

I support this idea, but I agree that something needs to replace it. If this siege plugin becomes a thing, it should only be usable by a faction at war with you or enemied to you at the very least.

For a siege plugin, I think it would be interesting to have the following features:

1) 'Warclaim' - Not like the old Warclaim, this is a set of 4 chunks that can be claimed by an enemy faction - the chunks MUST be connected to both each other AND wilderness. They are editable by the faction that owns the land and by the faction with the warclaim. Blocks cannot be removed, only added, and all added blocks phase out after 30 minutes of being there. A warclaim cannot be of a faction's /f home (for obvious reasons).

2) Block Regeneration & TnT - The use of TnT is blocked to prevent grief - but what if tnt didn't have drops and wore off after 30 minutes? In this manner raiders can get through a wall but would need to expend resources and time to craft the tnt. It would also do no permanent damage to blocks, thus removing the grief factor. TnT can only be placed in Warzone.

3) Ladders - Similar to Tnt, Ladders should be placeable in warzones and would allow a storming of the walls, which I personally would find to be much more realistic than mere enderpearls.

Click to shrink...

1) would break the 16 chunks rule.
2) would the tnt blocks regenerate?
3) YES YES YES!

Siege plugin = more lag. Another way to kill pvp even more.

Click to shrink...

Siege plugin would only cause lag in warclaims, and that is only when using siege stuff.

 

[Madus]

Siege plugin = more lag. Another way to kill pvp even more.

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If the plugin is written well enough it won't affect too much. And optimising existing plugins can help a lot.
We could also buy more hardware
One server for each world not one server for two.
Or upgrade the existing hardware.
The last two solutions is expensive, and I guess it won't happen soon. Although it is possible.

 

[TheTerrawr]

I support this idea, but I agree that something needs to replace it. If this siege plugin becomes a thing, it should only be usable by a faction at war with you or enemied to you at the very least.

1) would break the 16 chunks rule.
2) would the tnt blocks regenerate?
3) YES YES YES!

Siege plugin would only cause lag in warclaims, and that is only when using siege stuff.

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It would not break the 16 chunk rule, as possibly a command called /f war claim unclaim could be added that would need to be used at the end of every raid, that all faction members have access to,

 

[Madus]

Siege plugin would only cause lag in warclaims, and that is only when using siege stuff.

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No that plugin would have to log block placements (even causing some lag when blocks is placed outside of the war claim. Trust me I am a programmer) and running schedulers to regenerate and stuff. It would cause more lag near war claims, but overall lag would exist.

 

[Mecharic]

1- just claim the chunk outside the wall?
2- Laaaaaaaag
3- Yes. All of my.

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1) People would just claim their factions out like 2 chunks and then even if you make it to the wall you probably lose like half your health from the fall.
2) Not really - I was on a server that used it, fairly large. So long as there aren't 50+ people blowing shiz up at once it should be fine. Especially with the fact that this server has better equip than most.
3)

1) would break the 16 chunks rule.
2) would the tnt blocks regenerate?
3) YES YES YES!

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1) This isn't part of the 16 chunks, warclaim chunks would unclaim after 30 minutes and cannot be used for grief. Beyond this, it would only be able to be used on enemy factions, and would not allow the direct destruction of buildings/walls.
2) Yes, I've seen plugins that regenerate tnt and creeper explosions.
3)

 

[Mecharic]

@gridiron1024 - PvP causes lag. Remove it now. I command thee!

I'm joking of course, but you could try for something a little less, I dunno, completely unhelpful.

 

[TheTerrawr]

1) People would just claim their factions out like 2 chunks and then even if you make it to the wall you probably lose like half your health from the fall.
2) Not really - I was on a server that used it, fairly large. So long as there aren't 50+ people blowing shiz up at once it should be fine. Especially with the fact that this server has better equip than most.
3)



1) This isn't part of the 16 chunks, warclaim chunks would unclaim after 30 minutes and cannot be used for grief. Beyond this, it would only be able to be used on enemy factions, and would not allow the direct destruction of buildings/walls.
2) Yes, I've seen plugins that regenerate tnt and creeper explosions.
3)

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In regardes to 1, if chunks are claimed outside the wall, and it has to connect to wilderness, it wouldn't work?

 

[TheTerrawr]

@gridiron1024 - PvP causes lag. Remove it now. I command thee!

I'm joking of course, but you could try for something a little less, I dunno, completely unhelpful.

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Plz stap being offensive. It doesn't help your cause.

 

[Mecharic]

In regardes to 1, if chunks are claimed outside the wall, and it has to connect to wilderness, it wouldn't work?

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How so? What I'm imagining is something like the dead scar from WoW, where there is a direct line from the edge of ones territory to the final destination. This would allow for attackers to create proper siege engines, catapults, and ballista, as well as getting through the wall. Warclaim would only have, say, 4 chunks of claim regardless of faction size, and would be used solely to reach a wall. Baring the line-claim thing, it could just be 4 chunks to claim anywhere, allowing people to set up outposts (temp) in enemy territory, as well as break through walls.

 

[keylan118]

In regardes to 1, if chunks are claimed outside the wall, and it has to connect to wilderness, it wouldn't work?

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I'm guessing you could claim into faction territory.

 

[Mecharic]

Plz stap being offensive. It doesn't help your cause.

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Sorry, I'm just very annoyed with him right now. Mostly because he hasn't said anything constructive yet in this thread, only, and I quote:

Removing a key part of high level pvp is really a bad idea, unless you want to kill pvp of course. If you really can't handle dying, use your backpack as an inventory.

Click to shrink...

A post calling me a hypocrite goes here.

Backpack is the tradeoff for pacifist. Removing enderpearls is plain stupid.

Click to shrink...

Siege plugin = more lag. Another way to kill pvp even more.

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I see only negativity here, and it would be nice if he could try to put effort into compromise or at least constructive arguments or additions. Like extending the cooldown for pearls or suggesting a more moderate version of removal (along the lines of, can't be used in enemy territory).

 

[TheTerrawr]

Sorry, I'm just very annoyed with him right now. Mostly because he hasn't said anything constructive yet in this thread, only, and I quote:


A post calling me a hypocrite goes here.



I see only negativity here, and it would be nice if he could try to put effort into compromise or at least constructive arguments or additions. Like extending the cooldown for pearls or suggesting a more moderate version of removal (along the lines of, can't be used in enemy territory).

Click to shrink...

Maybe limiting the amount of pearls that can stack in inventories? Not chests, but say inky 3 per stack in BP and inventory. Taking up precious space,

 

[gridiron1024]

@Mecharic
You have been doing nothing but flaming pvpers in several of your posts, therefor I recommend you are not the one complaining about negative posts. If you had done any research into the idea of siege plugin you would see why those suggestions got shut down. They are not sharding compatible. Why have cayorion spend his time making a new plugin when enderpearls are NOT unbalanced. Suggesting a nerf to a random pvp feature that is COMPLETELY UNRELATED to pacifist is an unrealistic idea that would serve nothing more than to please those whining about the new changes.

 

[Joshy54100]

For a siege plugin, I think it would be interesting to have the following features:

1) 'Warclaim' - Not like the old Warclaim, this is a set of 4 chunks that can be claimed by an enemy faction - the chunks MUST be connected to both each other AND wilderness. They are editable by the faction that owns the land and by the faction with the warclaim. Blocks cannot be removed, only added, and all added blocks phase out after 30 minutes of being there. A warclaim cannot be of a faction's /f home (for obvious reasons).

2) Block Regeneration & TnT - The use of TnT is blocked to prevent grief - but what if tnt didn't have drops and wore off after 30 minutes? In this manner raiders can get through a wall but would need to expend resources and time to craft the tnt. It would also do no permanent damage to blocks, thus removing the grief factor. TnT can only be placed in Warzone.

3) Ladders - Similar to Tnt, Ladders should be placeable in warzones and would allow a storming of the walls, which I personally would find to be much more realistic than mere enderpearls.

Click to shrink...

But many people have complained about this very thing: anyone could break into your base with the Warclaim/Block Regeneration & TnT method, which makes all bases insecure, and I could see you and others complaining about those very 'solutions' if they were made, since most of your posts about PvP related issues have to do with the noobs and defenseless people of MassiveCraft.

 

[Mecharic]

But many people have complained about this very thing: anyone could break into your base with the Warclaim/Block Regeneration & TnT method, which makes all bases insecure, and I could see you and others complaining about those very 'solutions' if they were made, since most of your posts about PvP related issues have to do with the noobs and defenseless people of MassiveCraft.

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Well, my original idea is thus: they can only claim 4 chunks (limiting raids to 4 factions max at the same time) and can only place blocks in that chunk - the TnT can be used, but it's easy enough for someone to see "oh shiz, tnt, better log off" if they don't want to be blown up in their house.

 

[Art16]

@gridiron1024 - Why can't you compromise? All of the non-PvPers just lost one of their largest safety nets and all you can do is be greedy and demand that you get everything to help PvP. You want to take away the 30% faction, don't want to give up a completely illogical tool that makes walls useless, and are hardlining against even a moderated form of pacifist. I don't get it, I used to think you were a voice of moderation - but all I see now is another PvPer who serves nothing but their own ends.

@Art16 - I know they will attack, but by removing enderpearls it allows RPers to RP outside of their safe houses. You wouldn't want to spend all day inside a small safe house because of attackers, would you? I doubt it, so don't demand others suffer so you can enjoy yourself.

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No, I will spend all day stuck in a very large safe house.

 

[Joshy54100]

Well, my original idea is thus: they can only claim 4 chunks (limiting raids to 4 factions max at the same time) and can only place blocks in that chunk - the TnT can be used, but it's easy enough for someone to see "oh shiz, tnt, better log off" if they don't want to be blown up in their house.

Click to shrink...

This is the very stuff you have complained about though, this would leave RP'ers defenseless.