Remove All Vision From Dynmap.

Should Allvision be removed from dynmap?

  • YES

  • NO


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The new changes to the dynamic map means that anybody can be seen if they are on the surface or not below 3 blocks. But you can hide on the map by using an invisibility potion.
https://map.massivecraft.com/#

intro

From my perspective, the new Dynmap changes where everybody is visible is a terrible idea the reason being is that people who are not actually wanting to PVP get killed for building or doing various other tasks. This doesn't increase the amount of actual PVP action on the server. It just enables more casualties for innocent players. Furthermore, it just encourages people to only build underground. I've tried multiple times to build overground and with Schematica. Not only using Schematica takes forever but I have to constantly make sure my invisibility potion doesn't run out. Most of the time the reason for me dying was because I forgot that my invisibility had run out. Usually, I am only visible for 1-2 minutes but that is enough for people just to look on Dynmap and kill.

Unfair advantage
The new way the Dynmap has been set out isn't for the purpose of PVP. PVP has nothing to do with it. The map gives an unfair advantage to PvPers because when people are raiding you cannot see them coming because they are most likely invisible. If Dynmap shows everyone then make it so people can't disappear off the map. I understand it's trying to make the server more competitive but it's not doing it in the correct way. People who don't PVP are getting killed much more frequently than people who PVP. It's actually quite annoying how you spend 30 to 60 minutes of building just to lose all your tools and materials.

The new player experience
Across a couple of weeks, I've seen a decent amount of new players, initially, they don't know which traits they should have also, some of the newbies don't read the tutorial properly. The change doesn't help new players either as they are unaware that people can stream snipe you anywhere overground. I highly doubt this change has any benefits to the server and decreases the activity. I think the change is only making people not want to create huge detailed works of art but, square blocks builds because they are quick and easy and you don't really need to be using schematic for them.

As new players get continually killed, they will start to feel like it's pointless to play because they cannot go anywhere without being slain. This just fast-tracks their way into quitting the server. This may be a reason for the stunt of growth recently.

Problems when I'm building
From the multiple times I've tried to build I've just died. Of course, I use invisibility potions to build but they only last 8 minutes each and having to constantly worry about making sure you are not showing on the Dynmap instead of actually focusing on building your masterpiece.

The life of a builder is hard, you get 0 MCMMO, money and sometimes no gratification. People who build completely against the changes of Dynmap. So remove it.

Builders rise up!
It's especially punishing when you do die as a builder as you would need to regather those materials and make sure you do not get jumped on while farming them and you will need to re-equip yourself with a fresh set of god tools. The thing is, even if you have more god tools and more materials, enemies usually stay in that spot so they can kill you again. This just slows down building completely especially if you have a detailed building.

Playing with a terrible laptop/pc
A safety net to raiders from killing you is to have the Dynmap open so you can see whoever is nearing your faction to attack you. But this cannot be done for everyone. Some members of Massivecraft have terrible Computers which can barely run Minecraft so, they cannot have 2 tabs open (Minecraft and Dynmap) or their computers start dying. Also, there is nobody who would rather play with a split-screen rather than having Minecraft on a full screen. Most people don't even have 2 screens. It is very annoying and makes the game less fun to have Minecraft half the actual size.

So, come on MonMarty ^^.
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Revert back to the old Dynmap where it was fair for everyone and it gave no unfair advantages.

You could say that I'm salty about dying. And I am. But, only because I died for no reason (standing AFK for 2 minutes above ground).


TLDR;
  • Dynmap is not encouraging PvP
  • Innocents are dying because they are getting sniped from Dynmap
  • New players are struggling to gather materials as they are unaware or ill-equipped
  • All vision on dynmap forces people to build underground bases
  • The penalty for builders is too high.
  • Dynmap gives an unfair advantage because people can go invisible to raid
  • Some people cannot run 2 tabs at once or some people dislike having 2 tabs at once but Allvision on dynmap forces you to have 2 tabs running.


EDIT:

New idea: Instead allvision being removed. We could get rid of invisibility potions making you invisible on the Dynmap.

This would mean the PVE player would be able to see the raider coming and have enough time to escape and it also means that PVP players can track down people to kill.
 
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1. this should be in feature and ideas discussion
2. this change was brought into effect by popular demand and was trialled over several weeks, why didnt you say something then?
3. its great for pvp
4. helps the world feel more alive
5. if your getting raided build with invis pots on, have guards, make friends with pvpers.
6. If your killing fresh players for fun most people arnt gonna like you and youll probably get creamed by some vigilante
 
1. this should be in feature and ideas discussion
2. this change was brought into effect by popular demand and was trialled over several weeks, why didnt you say something then?
3. its great for pvp
4. helps the world feel more alive
5. if your getting raided build with invis pots on, have guards, make friends with pvpers.
6. If your killing fresh players for fun most people arnt gonna like you and youll probably get creamed by some vigilante

I wasn't playing on the server when it was brought up.

So the server is dead when people aren't killing innocents? There are purposely created raid portals to "raid". If people wanted the server to be active then maybe instead of killing randomers who don't want to PVP, the people should just go to another faction and say in the chat they want to PVP.

Some factions are too small to have enough members to be on at a time to defend you. Plus, forcing people to join an "active faction" just supports the strong. The factions that are already built up and have lots of members and already have a lot of equipment makes the new players be forced to join a faction instead of being creative and making their own.

People are killing newbies all the time since they have the right equipment and elytas are a thing.
 
I wasn't playing on the server when it was brought up.

So the server is dead when people aren't killing innocents? There are purposely created raid portals to "raid". If people wanted the server to be active then maybe instead of killing randomers who don't want to PVP, the people should just go to another faction and say in the chat they want to PVP.

Some factions are too small to have enough members to be on at a time to defend you. Plus, forcing people to join an "active faction" just supports the strong. The factions that are already built up and have lots of members and already have a lot of equipment makes the new players be forced to join a faction instead of being creative and making their own.

People are killing newbies all the time since they have the right equipment and elytas are a thing.
it happens just as much to large factions as it does to small factions. Wrath's build slaves are out there grinding on the wall and shaneski likes to pick them off every now and then. More recently poklpokl has been doing it which has sparked an interest in our less pvper orientated members to start crusading against Asteria. Raid portals dont create pvp, they just make it more convenient. Dynmap allows pvpers to third party, track down straggelers and incite conflict with other factions.
In the end noobs will always die. Thats why they are noobs. Thats why you need to join a faction, all of the most experienced, diehard pvpers started as noobs, living in a dirt house with iron gear until they got picked up by a faction. Death is part of the fun, you just need to harness it to your will.
 
It's interesting that you would say that it's negatively affecting the server, when the support for dynmap hide being disabled was overwhelmingly positive.
 
it happens just as much to large factions as it does to small factions. Wrath's build slaves are out there grinding on the wall and shaneski likes to pick them off every now and then. More recently poklpokl has been doing it which has sparked an interest in our less pvper orientated members to start crusading against Asteria. Raid portals dont create pvp, they just make it more convenient. Dynmap allows pvpers to third party, track down straggelers and incite conflict with other factions.
In the end noobs will always die. Thats why they are noobs. Thats why you need to join a faction, all of the most experienced, diehard pvpers started as noobs, living in a dirt house with iron gear until they got picked up by a faction. Death is part of the fun, you just need to harness it to your will.


You have to see it from both perspectives

The builder has no intention of getting killed and has no intent to gain any rewards.
The PvPer has knowledge that the person must be building as they are standing above an unfinished structure on Dynmap and gains whatever the builder is holding (mostly god tools).

The builder loses his/her materials and tools.
The pvper gains his/her materials and tools.

The pvper doesn't have to exhaust anything.
The builder loses everything he/she is holding because they forgot to use an invisibility potion.

It makes the server more active by killing people who don't want to PVP. That is the only real reason for showing on Dynmap. Some people don't want to PVP 24/7 and want to build.

I'm saying that it is hard for the builder to do what he wants
What happens when there is nobody building above ground or nobody is building detailed works of art because it's just not worth the risk.

yes, wrath loses a lot of builders because it is a well-known PVP faction. But the builders aren't PVPing. I'm stating that its unfair to the people who aren't intentionally finding a fight. The Dynmap just makes it a lot easier to track down and kill players. There aren't many pvpers because they don't want to be jumped on. Its mainly people who are gathering resources or building.
 
You have to see it from both perspectives

The builder has no intention of getting killed and has no intent to gain any rewards.
The PvPer has knowledge that the person must be building as they are standing above an unfinished structure on Dynmap and gains whatever the builder is holding (mostly god tools).

The builder loses his/her materials and tools.
The pvper gains his/her materials and tools.

The pvper doesn't have to exhaust anything.
The builder loses everything he/she is holding because they forgot to use an invisibility potion.

It makes the server more active by killing people who don't want to PVP. That is the only real reason for showing on Dynmap. Some people don't want to PVP 24/7 and want to build.

I'm saying that it is hard for the builder to do what he wants
What happens when there is nobody building above ground or nobody is building detailed works of art because it's just not worth the risk.

yes, wrath loses a lot of builders because it is a well-known PVP faction. But the builders aren't PVPing. I'm stating that its unfair to the people who aren't intentionally finding a fight. The Dynmap just makes it a lot easier to track down and kill players. There aren't many pvpers because they don't want to be jumped on. Its mainly people who are gathering resources or building.


if there was a command which made you invis for an hour each day, maybe people could actually build above ground.
 
I think it does encourage PvP indirectly actually, because it gives incentive for the factions being attacked to either raid back to make their attackers piss off, or seek truces, possibly through surrender. Leaders can do that if it means protecting their members. Either way, it brings more faction to faction interaction. Which is quite needed, Essalonia gets stale without that from time to time.
 
I think it does encourage PvP indirectly actually, because it gives incentive for the factions being attacked to either raid back to make their attackers piss off, or seek truces, possibly through surrender. Leaders can do that if it means protecting their members. Either way, it brings more faction to faction interaction. Which is quite needed, Essalonia gets stale without that from time to time.
Ye, it creates conflict, and conflict is good for survival activity in general.
 
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I think it does encourage PvP indirectly actually, because it gives incentive for the factions being attacked to either raid back to make their attackers piss off, or seek truces, possibly through surrender. Leaders can do that if it means protecting their members. Either way, it brings more faction to faction interaction. Which is quite needed, Essalonia gets stale without that from time to time.

The people who aren't PVPers (builders) aren't just gonna go and attack. Some people don't want to PVP. If things get stale, its the faction's problem to declare war other factions to keep it interesting. It should not be some innocents getting picked off. If PVP factions want to PVP, I'm sure they can do it without the Dynmap. The Dynmap is mainly used for pickoffs. not full-scale wars against actual PVPers.
 
Yes, conflict can happen but the Dynmap is unfair. If they removed invisibility all together then it would. There is a chance for the innocents to escape.
Huh? Invis helps people building since it hides you on the dynmap, removing invis would make this "problem" worse.
 
Huh? Invis helps people building since it hides you on the dynmap, removing invis would make this "problem" worse.

Removing invis would mean people can see raiders coming and raiders can find people to target.

It would mean it would be fair for both sides.
 
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Bring back HIDE WE WILL PETITION!! CANT STOP ALL OF US!'
 
Sorry but I don't pvp I never fought anyone. It was hard for me to find a place when a guy followed us to the spot, hid a bed and waited to kill us every time we went back to the spot we wanted to make a faction. We did, we only
Use it for resources
 
Plus, forcing people to join an "active faction" just supports the strong. The factions that are already built up and have lots of members and already have a lot of equipment makes the new players be forced to join a faction instead of being creative and making their own.
I personally believe a brand new player on the server making their own faction right away is waaay worse than encouraging them to join an established faction. MassiveCraft does factions differently, so if you take some time to learn in a developed faction you'll be better off in the long run. Also in the past, people would log in, create a faction, claim land, leave. Then now we have to wait weeks to get that land disbanded naturally.
Huh? Invis helps people building since it hides you on the dynmap, removing invis would make this "problem" worse.
Removing invis would mean people can see raiders coming and raiders can find people to target.
@JDgoldvox You're misunderstanding what jes is saying. Invisiblity works for builders too. Don't want to get killed while building? Drink an invisibility potion.
 
All the negatives really are just a result of Elytra existing tbh.
Source: Watching ridgee raid a fac xd

What honestly needs to happen is some sort of change to Elytra to make flying in, sniping a kill on someone who happened to not be invis for half a second, then flying out scot free. I feel like that's a bigger cancer that just happens to make use of dynmap than dynmap itself is. Was considering a suggestion via traits, but..
 
Yes, conflict can happen but the Dynmap is unfair. If they removed invisibility all together then it would. There is a chance for the innocents to escape.
I also want to refute your hypothesis that builders and PVPers refer to the dynmap at the same rate. If I'm building, I'm never looking at the map, and I wouldnt be surprised if most builders agree with that statement. So whether or not theyre visible really doesnt effect a builder who most likely isnt even looking at the map. What it WOULD effect, is builders who utilize the invisibility potions to not show up. This would hurt builders in the long run.

All the negatives really are just a result of Elytra existing tbh.

What honestly needs to happen is some sort of change to Elytra to make flying in, sniping a kill on someone who happened to not be invis for half a second, then flying out scot free. I feel like that's a bigger cancer that just happens to make use of dynmap than dynmap itself is. Was considering a suggestion via traits, but..
Elytra already stops working when you're PVP tagged. So... sure travel is easy but once you hit your first shot, not only do the wings not work, you're already down a chestplate worth of armor. This change was already done to prevent flying in, killing somebody, and flying out. That is already nerfed. That isnt the issue.

only because I died for no reason (standing AFK for 2 minutes above ground).
Also... I mean this isnt really "for no reason".. you were a sitting duck so somebody took the opportunity. I would also like to point out that the suggested change would in no way prevent dying while AFK.
 
Elytra already stops working when you're PVP tagged. So... sure travel is easy but once you hit your first shot, not only do the wings not work, you're already down a chestplate worth of armor.
That works on paper, but since I can more or less confirm you don't actually come outside of your base or safezones, you probably don't understand this, but...
Take invis+wings, keep dyn up, watch for a builder to randomly pop out. Fly in, toss a pearl behind you, pop str/speed, kill the builder in 2 hits or so, pearl lands, run and wait for tag to come down, and you fly away scot free, no risk and nobody can really contest or stop you. Even better with a bow.
There needs to be more, because that's how guys like chappers/ridgee work and are pretty successful doing so. There's no risk when you can snipe and run. And it's not fun or engaging PVP in any meaningful way aside from just noob killing as a solo player.
 
Take invis+wings, keep dyn up, watch for a builder to randomly pop out. Fly in, toss a pearl behind you, pop str/speed, kill the builder in 2 hits or so, pearl lands, run and wait for tag to come down, and you fly away scot free, no risk and nobody can really contest or stop you. Even better with a bow.
There needs to be more, because that's how guys like chappers/ridgee work and are pretty successful doing so. There's no risk when you can snipe and run.
Good for them for figuring out a way to make it work... but I still don't see how that's an Elytra's issue? It seems that the only part that the elytra played in all this was getting them there. Not killing and waiting out the timer.

Elytras are not really an issue. You already lose like 6 armor bars since you arent wearing a chestplate. And you cant use them in PVP.

Also it is a little off topic. I would suggest making it a different thread if you want to discuss further nerfing for elytras
 
Good for them for figuring out a way to make it work... but I still don't see how that's an Elytra's issue? It seems that the only part that the elytra played in all this was getting them there. Not killing and waiting out the timer.

Elytras are not really an issue. You already lose like 6 armor bars since you arent wearing a chestplate. And you cant use them in PVP.

Also it is a little off topic. I would suggest making it a different thread if you want to discuss further nerfing for elytras

.. sigh
upload_2019-8-5_11-42-10.webp
 
I personally believe a brand new player on the server making their own faction right away is waaay worse than encouraging them to join an established faction. MassiveCraft does factions differently, so if you take some time to learn in a developed faction you'll be better off in the long run. Also in the past, people would log in, create a faction, claim land, leave. Then now we have to wait weeks to get that land disbanded naturally.


@JDgoldvox You're misunderstanding what jes is saying. Invisiblity works for builders too. Don't want to get killed while building? Drink an invisibility potion.

Its annoying having to constantly repot because you are scared of somebody raiding you. It adds nothing to the game except more griding for invis pots. Especially when you are building because you need your inventory to be full of materials for building.
 
Its annoying having to constantly repot because you are scared of somebody raiding you. It adds nothing to the game except more griding for invis pots. Especially when you are building because you need your inventory to be full of materials for building.
So from what I get from this reply... is that you admit there already is a solution but that solution is too annoying, so you'd rather suggest we revert the change that has been overwhelmingly positive just because the solution to your issue is "too annoying"? To clarify, a solution is there! But you don't want to have to remember to repot..?
 
Bout a month ago Arthas got me with the invis sneak and got my animals and my god pick. I geared up, went to their base, dueled Sevak, and lost. I wasn't salty over it since I knew dynmap was off and that invis was a thing. I think the current setup is fine. If you don't want to die, use invis pots. Wear armor always, and know that it's survival, and death is always a possibility.
 
Dynmap on being forced was good because it showed everyone online. Which is directly why my friend returned to factions because he was able to see the PVP activity.
But it was balanced because you could see potential enemies to raid, but you could also spot them in time.

Invisibility added is the most braindead thing to be added because it completely UNbalanced dynmap show being forced. It just forces everyone to use invis because others are using it - completely negating the ACTUAL purpose of the dynmap show being forced.

Who was in charge of this decision? What was your reasoning?
 
Invisibility added is the most braindead thing to be added because it completely UNbalanced dynmap show being forced. It just forces everyone to use invis because others are using it - completely negating the ACTUAL purpose of the dynmap show being forced
I think given the cost per potion it's worth it