Archived Recreate The Pvp Department

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Alj23

Alj23

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The title pretty much outlines the jist of this thread.

In another thread, I made this argument:
Alj23 said:
There are currently 13 game staff members that hold a rank. There are 17 lore staff members that hold a rank. The divide use to be a lot bigger, so I'm happy there are more game staff. What I'm not happy about is that there is no longer a PVP department. Lore get's a department dedicated solely to it, but game and PVP, which are not the same thing, are rolled into one. Seeing as almost every comment on this thread and every other thread along the lines of this one always establish PVP and RP as two separate, but deserving equal aspects of game play, I don't see why the PVP department can't be recreated.
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Alj23 said:
Simply put, recreate the PVP department without the stipulations that enforce doing game work first, as it's only fair to the PVP community that we have a solely dedicated department, the same as the RP community. I think this is a fair request, and one I would hope both PVPers and RPers would come together to support.
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It seems pretty straightforward to me. Alright, not that straightforward. They'd have to create a new department, figure out who is going to lead that department, figure out logistics that dictate what the department specifically does and doesn't focus on, applicant process, what work will allow new members to get a rank, maintain a rank, and rank up. But they've done all this before with all the other departments, so they can do it again. It really needs to happen, sooner or later. It would be a real testament to the staff's dedication to investment in PVP on MassiveCraft.

MassiveCraft PVP is in a really volatile state right now, and a department dedicated to its health would be a resounding step in the right direction.
 
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Well as i recall, the reason the PVP/Combat department was absorbed into the Game department was because the only people acquiring points for that department were Gethelp, Lazzulai, Addrion, and Jackson413 who already each have a Game rank. I still think that those people are working on PVP, but just without that, extra department
 
Zacatero said:
Well as i recall, the reason the PVP/Combat department was absorbed into the Game department was because the only people acquiring points for that department were Gethelp, Lazzulai, Addrion, and Jackson413 who already each have a Game rank. I still think that those people are working on PVP, but just without that, extra department
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As I stated in the comments I quoted in the original post, you currently have to obtain a game rank before you can even begin working on PVP. To remain a staff member, you have to put up points each week in your respective department, else you will at some point be removed due to inactivity.

I'd like to believe there are some people that care a lot about PVP, but don't want to bother with doing game work and obtaining a game rank if they intend to focus on PVP. That's why I specifically stated to remove that restriction by creating a PVP department where you would work primarily on PVP.

A player primarily participating in RP can go to the massivecraft.com/staff page and see that there are 17 members currently in the lore department working to create content for their preferred play style. When it comes to PVP, we do not know who within the game Staff only focused on game, only focused on PVP, or focuses on both.

I'm not asking for staff to put a special asterisk next to their name on the staff page to make it obvious whether they work on PVP or game. That would be too little a handout. I'm asking for what I view is fair. Creation of a department that focuses on a significant aspect of this server equal to the amount RP receives.
 
I would like to point out that there was indeed a PvP outreach program, this program was designed to get feedback on what players would like to see as well as test out new aspects/improve on aspects for PvP. I believe I can recall @Gethelp stating that the program was abandon due to lack of interest/work being completed by the "PvP Squires" as they were called. A select few, I think 2, were actively participating in this program. As of right now, I think Gethelp is the only one working on improving PvP and there really is no need for a department to be formed. Currently there is not enough workload for people in such a department to maintain the points necessary to hold rank.

It would be easier to just add a few more responsibilities for the Game Department to handle than to create a whole new department.

As for the looks of PvPers feeling neglected due to no department designed just for PvP, picture the Game department as such. The Game Department handles all sort of "hacking/gliching" as the Lore Department handles the "Metagaming/OP" of roleplay.
 
But i think re-introducing the PvP Squire program might be a good thing at this point tbh
 
Zacatero said:
But i think re-introducing the PvP Squire program might be a good thing at this point tbh
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What exactly would this program be doing? I would think that if it needed to be put back in place, it would have a need.
 
@Alj23 So, what would the PVP department be doing primarily that the Game department doesn't already do?
 
Combat rank was removed because there is not always work for staff in combat we may get 5-10 points 1 week in combat and then dont get any for the next 2-3 because your waiting on changes to be pushed to the server by tech this is why we pushed it in to game. also if you wanna join game to do pvp stuff you can always put in a application for it and say that in your application but doing just pvp work you would not hold your rank
 
Gethelp said:
Combat rank was removed because there is not always work for staff in combat we may get 5-10 points 1 week in combat and then dont get any for the next 2-3 because your waiting on changes to be pushed to the server by tech this is why we pushed it in to game. also if you wanna join game to do pvp stuff you can always put in a application for it and say that in your application but doing just pvp work you would not hold your rank
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So a department 100% focused on lore exist, but a department 100% focused on PVP can't? There is work to be done, and so long as MassiveCraft and Minecraft the game itself updates, there will always be PVP work to be done. The large amount of threads created within the last month that are focused on PVP topics is an obvious example of work needing to be done.

A lore department aspirant can apply for the lore department and focus on doing lore work. If someone wants to apply to the Game department to do PVP work, you're saying they will be forced to split their time between PVP work and Game work to keep their rank. Does PVP work not translate into points? It should.

I really hope you and others see the blatant issue here.
 
Alj23 said:
So a department 100% focused on lore exist, but a department 100% focused on PVP can't? There is work to be done, and so long as MassiveCraft and Minecraft the game itself updates, there will always be PVP work to be done. The large amount of threads created within the last month that are focused on PVP topics is an obvious example of work needing to be done.

A lore department aspirant can apply for the lore department and focus on doing lore work. If someone wants to apply to the Game department to do PVP work, you're saying they will be forced to split their time between PVP work and Game work to keep their rank. Does PVP work not translate into points? It should.

I really hope you and others see the blatant issue here.
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I don't see an issue. The only thing that really needs to be done is balancing. That's really as easy as just talking to gethelp; there's not really any reason we need more staff to do it. The only other thing I can think of off the top of my head would be pvp tournies, which is a game staff thing anyways.
 
krios41 said:
Just one question
how?
I'm just a roleplayer and don't see the "how" behind that
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The same way lore work translates into points. You write a lore article, you get points. You write a PVP report, you get points. You moderate and help run a PVP event, you get points. You help balance damage inconsistencies, you get points. You do the legwork to find or suggest a new PVP feature for the server, you get points.

There are tons of ways to get points when doing PVP work.
 
krios41 said:
I see

one more thing, what you mean with a 'pvp report'? something like "X is not working proprly, needs fix/more testing"?
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That was just a very basic example, and could probably be interpreted a few different ways.

It's up to the staff and leader of the department to decide what counts for points and what doesn't. I was just giving some examples of things that exist already in other departments.
 
Alj23 said:
That was just a very basic example, and could probably be interpreted a few different ways.

It's up to the staff and leader of the department to decide what counts for points and what doesn't. I was just giving some examples of things that exist already in other departments.
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Aight. Thanks
 
Alj23 said:
The same way lore work translates into points. You write a lore article, you get points. You write a PVP report, you get points. You moderate and help run a PVP event, you get points. You help balance damage inconsistencies, you get points. You do the legwork to find or suggest a new PVP feature for the server, you get points.

There are tons of ways to get points when doing PVP work.
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As Gethelp stated, there simply would not be enough reason to have a department designed solely on PvP when the Game department already handles all the need. If you could somehow provide me a list of responsibilities that the department would do, I would be all ears but for now. It really seems like there is no need for it.

I feel like the main reason you wish to have a PvP department is because Roleplay has the Lore department. Your main argument suggests this to me.
 
I think the purpose of suggesting it be recreated is that it would encourage more players from the PVP Community to apply for staff if they knew they wouldn't have to moderate in order to work on PVP
 
Alj23 said:
The same way lore work translates into points. You write a lore article, you get points. You write a PVP report, you get points. You moderate and help run a PVP event, you get points. You help balance damage inconsistencies, you get points. You do the legwork to find or suggest a new PVP feature for the server, you get points.

There are tons of ways to get points when doing PVP work.
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Reports are done by game
Events are done by game
Suggest and features come from PvPers that play. pvpers get asked for this all the time.
Suggest and features you can get points for this BUT only when there on the server and 99% of thing never go on the server this would stop you from geting points
Balance Damage is done by me you dont want to many cooks doing this and i test with PvPers in faction worlds

to be far everone that joined PvP staff losts it because of no points at one point i even had Cyth and Trax when they where pvp staff making arenas just to keep points i mean i would of even lost my PvP rank3 by now because there is not a lot to do
 
Alj23 said:
So a department 100% focused on lore exist, but a department 100% focused on PVP can't? There is work to be done, and so long as MassiveCraft and Minecraft the game itself updates, there will always be PVP work to be done. The large amount of threads created within the last month that are focused on PVP topics is an obvious example of work needing to be done.

A lore department aspirant can apply for the lore department and focus on doing lore work. If someone wants to apply to the Game department to do PVP work, you're saying they will be forced to split their time between PVP work and Game work to keep their rank. Does PVP work not translate into points? It should.

I really hope you and others see the blatant issue here.
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I dont see an issue with GetHelp's answer. And if you read it a little more carefully you would see the logic there.

Staff keep their ranks by earning "points" by doing staff related activities.

The reason Lore has so much to work on is because there are so many intricacies involved in running Roleplay, as opposed to the relatively few involved with maintaining PVP.

A Staff focusing ONLY on maintaining PVP would be unable to physically earn enough points to keep their rank. Because there is so little work to do to maintain it.

More specifically on "Does PVP work not translate to points?" All staff work in their department translates to points. Game Staff earn points for their PVP work. But they have other duties as well. Similar tasks are consolidated into one department for simplicity and management sake.

TL;DR - PVP doesn't require as much maintenance as RP so a department dedicated to just PVP would not have enough work for any staff in it to maintain their rank, so PVP and Game merged into JUST Game.
 
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That being said, it would be interesting to see Game Staff maybe host PVP tourneys or something from time to time.
 
conflicttFTW said:
That being said, it would be interesting to see Game Staff maybe host PVP tourneys or something from time to time.
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Ya... that has happened in the past and quite frankly i dont blame anybody for not hosting them as often... from what i understand, it requires a lot of prep, yet it all depends on who actually shows up. And it.. just doesnt always go well.
 
conflicttFTW said:
I dont see an issue with GetHelp's answer. And if you read it a little more carefully you would see the logic there.

Staff keep their ranks by earning "points" by doing staff related activities.

The reason Lore has so much to work on is because there are so many intricacies involved in running Roleplay, as opposed to the relatively few involved with maintaining PVP.

A Staff focusing ONLY on maintaining PVP would be unable to physically earn enough points to keep their rank. Because there is so little work to do to maintain it.

More specifically on "Does PVP work not translate to points?" All staff work in their department translates to points. Game Staff earn points for their PVP work. But they have other duties as well. Similar tasks are consolidated into one department for simplicity and management sake.

TL;DR - PVP doesn't require as much maintenance as RP so a department dedicated to just PVP would not have enough work for any staff in it to maintain their rank, so PVP and Game merged into JUST Game.
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Thanks for telling someone who was a staff member for almost a year how staff points work. The unneeded refresher was great.

onearmsquid said:
As Gethelp stated, there simply would not be enough reason to have a department designed solely on PvP when the Game department already handles all the need. If you could somehow provide me a list of responsibilities that the department would do, I would be all ears but for now. It really seems like there is no need for it.

I feel like the main reason you wish to have a PvP department is because Roleplay has the Lore department. Your main argument suggests this to me.
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Pretty much yah. In my personal opinion there's more than enough PVP work to be done, but you know, that's just what I think.
Gethelp said:
Reports are done by game
Events are done by game
Suggest and features come from PvPers that play. pvpers get asked for this all the time.
Suggest and features you can get points for this BUT only when there on the server and 99% of thing never go on the server this would stop you from geting points
Balance Damage is done by me you dont want to many cooks doing this and i test with PvPers in faction worlds

to be far everone that joined PvP staff losts it because of no points at one point i even had Cyth and Trax when they where pvp staff making arenas just to keep points i mean i would of even lost my PvP rank3 by now because there is not a lot to do
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Since you won't budge on recreation of a needed department in my opinion, maybe either one of the following could be a compromise: a little asterik next to the Game staff names that do any amount of PVP work on the massivecraft.com/staff list, or a forum post that maybe updates every few weeks with what Game staff are doing what for PVP.
 
As for the original goal of this thread, it's obvious many people unfamiliar with the work it takes to maintain a core aspect of game play don't see the need for a department dedicated to the literal equivalent of RP and lore, so I'm asking for maybe just some form of the comprimises I listed above.
 
Can't get a PVP department without PVP aspirants. PVP department was a separate department for nearly half a year and nobody bothered to join up, despite frequent communication that the department was looking for members. Of the squires, only one ever transitioned to staff and quit not soon thereafter.

As long as the thought prevails among the PVP community that you cannot PVP anymore when you become staff (something that is indeed reinforced by the scrutiny PVP staff are stressed under from the PVP community when they do become staff), there will be no functional PVP department.
 
Alj23 said:
Thanks for telling someone who was a staff member for almost a year how staff points work. The unneeded refresher was great
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Almost a year over 2 years ago remember.. you havent been staff longer than you were staff. Not everybody remembers you were staff and the extra salt isnt needed.
 
The department might be needed sure but it sounds like the actual work isnt really something that can be handled by a lot of people. Sometimes something is just a one-man job and the balancing sounds like it is. Its not like lore with wiki pages to constantly write or character apps to review. But it sounds like Game department has it covered and the actual pvp mechanics are doing fine imo.. the absense of the pvp department isnt taking a toll on the pvp if you ask me.
 
If a lot of what needed to do for PvP wasnt code based, I'd support this.
 
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