Archived Raise Faction Cost

Mecharic · May 5, 2015

This is exactly what the title says: RAISE THE COST OF MAKING A FACTION!

100r to found a faction is obscenely easy to get on MassiveCraft. I recruited a guy to Raeth 2 days ago, he left already and now has his own faction. He's been on the server for an entire 2 days, has no promise of staying active or functional, and, honestly, probably doesn't know how most of the server plugins even work yet.

This is the 3rd time this has happened to me in the last 2 months.

Beyond the "noob factions" that pop up all the time, there's the simple fact that MassiveCraft cannot support hundreds of tiny factions. There's not enough space in the existing worlds, not enough active players to sustain them, and not enough Regals to support them.

So, with that brief but blunt argument, I hereby re-suggest my thread title: Raise the cost of making a new faction. Make them something to earn again, something that won't simply die because it has no value. Make factions a goal again.

EDIT: I'm thinking 1000r, a dedicated player can gather than much up in around 2 months, enough time for them to confirm their place on Massive. Taxes remain as are.

Made_By · May 20, 2015

I never understood the reason behind the prices being reduced. Bring it back to the old days where people had to work through other people to reach their goals. Builds a greater sense of community. This 100r price certainly does not help that, factions are seen as something barely valuable any more.

jono0812 · May 22, 2015

If you look on the map, in the bid to make your own faction, you're hard pressed to find a place to settle, with some room to expand. Find a good piece of land, now, is almost impossible. Every map, with the exception of the older ones, are completely rammed full of small factions, or randomly claimed areas of land. I'm sure increasing the price of factions will help with this, but I would also like to see a rule implemented stopping the 'One chunk' wide claims around the world. That amount of good places to build which you cannot, because of a single-chunk faction claim is ridiculous. Something does need to be done.

Silent_Ruler · May 22, 2015

I think hat we should be talking about removing faction tax instead, for role-play factions at least.

Role-players have very little methods of earning money to maintain a faction as it was before the tax system. Now that there is a tax system, it's just a nightmare. Furthermore, it is discouraging people such as myself from joining a faction in the first place because of how draining it is.

We simply don't like the idea of having to interrupt our role-play to spam-click unintelligent mobs in a darkroom, or having to waste hours at a time finding resources to sell when we could be using them for the expanding of our faction. This goes double for some role-players.

I do not speak on my own behalf, nor do I speak on the behalf of any particular group. It is just a mere observation which may be incorrect. I used myself as an example because it is my interpretation of the truth. Interpretations are, more often than not, opinions. Opinions, I say, may remain in place despite evidence being presented to prove a fact otherwise.

I am not saying it is a simple fact that tax should be removed, it is just an opinion. Should it have been a fact, you would have been able to prove me otherwise. An opinion cannot be proven incorrect, just convinced otherwise instead.

And my opinion is that faction tax should be removed for the reasons above.

CanteringCodfish · May 22, 2015

Chanter_ said:
So then what's the harm? They die out soon anyway.

How is that off topic?
@Hagenhalo

Lord_Aza · May 22, 2015

SilentsAppeal said:
I think hat we should be talking about removing faction tax instead, for role-play factions at least.

Role-players have very little methods of earning money to maintain a faction as it was before the tax system. Now that there is a tax system, it's just a nightmare. Furthermore, it is discouraging people such as myself from joining a faction in the first place because of how draining it is.

We simply don't like the idea of having to interrupt our role-play to spam-click unintelligent mobs in a darkroom, or having to waste hours at a time finding resources to sell when we could be using them for the expanding of our faction. This goes double for some role-players.

I do not speak on my own behalf, nor do I speak on the behalf of any particular group. It is just a mere observation which may be incorrect. I used myself as an example because it is my interpretation of the truth. Interpretations are, more often than not, opinions. Opinions, I say, may remain in place despite evidence being presented to prove a fact otherwise.

I am not saying it is a simple fact that tax should be removed, it is just an opinion. Should it have been a fact, you would have been able to prove me otherwise. An opinion cannot be proven incorrect, just convinced otherwise instead.

And my opinion is that faction tax should be removed for the reasons above.

Disagree.

Being a roleplayer doesn't mean you can't grind money in a darkroom, and it's not honestly that hard either. All you need is a normal diamond axe and some god armor, and a bit of time and patience.

Jackmo_Jones · May 22, 2015

SilentsAppeal said:
We simply don't like the idea of having to interrupt our role-play to spam-click unintelligent mobs in a darkroom, or having to waste hours at a time finding resources to sell when we could be using them for the expanding of our faction. This goes double for some role-players.

Do you think anyone likes doing this? It's one of the major mechanics of the game you are playing it may be tedious and you may not like doing it but we all have to do it.

Party_Penguin27 · May 22, 2015

AzaFish said:
Disagree.

Being a roleplayer doesn't mean you can't grind money in a darkroom, and it's not honestly that hard either. All you need is a normal diamond axe and some god armor, and a bit of time and patience.

I use a sword, and I make soem decent money.

Owinign a rp shop or something can bring in regals, or selling rp items

Silent_Ruler · May 22, 2015

AzaFish said:
Disagree.

Being a roleplayer doesn't mean you can't grind money in a darkroom, and it's not honestly that hard either. All you need is a normal diamond axe and some god armor, and a bit of time and patience.

Oh, I agree.
It's just some people actually prefer to spend what little time they have actually role-playing- instead of making a darkroom/fighting mobs, making the god armor, mining the diamonds, etc.

Jackmo_Jones said:
Do you think anyone likes doing this? It's one of the major mechanics of the game you are playing it may be tedious and you may not like doing it but we all have to do it.

No. It's not a mayor game mechanic.
Otherwise, it wouldn't be a role-play themed server, in which you are not obliged to fight mobs, or be centered around factions. Furthermore, all it takes is altering the faction system- not unlike what mecharic is asking for.

It worked fine without the faction tax. I don't see the reason in having to pay something that so many people dislike- as you implied.

Party_Penguin27 said:
I use a sword, and I make soem decent money.

Owinign a rp shop or something can bring in regals, or selling rp items

Oh yes. A shop.
Last time I checked you could either gather the materials yourself, which disrupts role-play, or buy them.
You need money to buy them. The other alternative would be to fight mobs- which also disrupts role-play.

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I don't want to derail this thread's topic. If you'd like to continue the argument, contact me through my profile.

If you decide to derail the thread any further, it's on you. I offered an alternative. I will not consider myself to be responsible for the derailment of the thread.
I urge you to contact me through my profile.

Jemo_ · May 22, 2015

SilentsAppeal said:
SNIP

How many times do people need to say this? Vote, you'll on average get enough money a day, if you don't like doing that then you'll have to spend 5 minutes killing creatures. That's all it takes.
Also for role players? So because I don't RP I would have to grind mobs? Ah... Nice...

Silent_Ruler · May 22, 2015

RDRJemo said:
How many times do people need to say this?

SilentsAppeal said:
Opinions, I say, may remain in place despite evidence being presented to prove a fact otherwise.

I am not saying it is a simple fact that tax should be removed, it is just an opinion. Should it have been a fact, you would have been able to prove me otherwise. An opinion cannot be proven incorrect, just convinced otherwise instead.

And my opinion is that faction tax should be removed for the reasons above.

With that attitude, you wont convince me.

RDRJemo said:
Vote, you'll on average get enough money a day, if you don't like doing that then you'll have to spend 5 minutes killing creatures. That's all it takes.

Thank you for the not-entirely dependable solution. No, really. This is honest. It is a solution, nevertheless- so I'll take it.

RDRJemo said:
Also for role players? So because I don't RP I would have to grind mobs? Ah... Nice...

That was entirely rude and completely uncalled for. Your attitude instantly puts me on edge.

To answer your question, no. I never said that you would have to grind mobs if you don't role-play

Though you should, however, as if you're not in the server to role-play, you are probably here to PVP. Grinding mobs would be an excellent way for you to up your MCMMO and earn money. You wouldn't have to, but it would be a likable option nevertheless due to the reason provided.

. In-fact, I never said what non-Role-Players SHOULD do.
You saying "So because I don't RP..." is rather manipulative- immature indeed. It is an attempt of implying that there is only black and white to this situation, so that if you do something or are something, you do one thing- if you aren't, you do the opposite.

This is not the case. I'm sure you, as you allegedly don't role-play, would be capable of thinking of a better solution on as to what the PVP community would have or should do.
However, as you allegedly don't role-play, I cannot expect you to provide a reasonable standing on as to what can be done for those in, for example, my lovely situation.

I don't understand why you are all so against me on this. After all, it is more money in all of our pockets.

Lastly, I advise you to re-read the following:

SilentsAppeal said:
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I don't want to derail this thread's topic. If you'd like to continue the argument, contact me through my profile.

If you decide to derail the thread any further, it's on you. I offered an alternative. I will not consider myself to be responsible for the derailment of the thread.
I urge you to contact me through my profile.

Jackmo_Jones · May 22, 2015

SilentsAppeal said:
No. It's not a mayor game mechanic.
Otherwise, it wouldn't be a role-play themed server, in which you are not obliged to fight mobs, or be centered around factions. Furthermore, all it takes is altering the faction system- not unlike what mecharic is asking for.

It worked fine without the faction tax. I don't see the reason in having to pay something that so many people dislike- as you implied.

If you don't like faction tax there are numerous ways around it.

1. Don't join a faction. If all you wanna do with your limited time is to roleplay you don't really need to be in a faction to do so. In fact it has always been my understanding that the faction side of this server and the roleplay side aren't connected. Things that don't happen in Regalia or other roleplay spots aren't considered a part of the lore.

2. Join a faction that's based in Regalia and has no claimed land and thus no faction taxes. There are plenty of places to live in Regalia and it's not impossible for a faction to base themselves in Regalia alone. Of course with this option you will still have to pay property fees so you're still gonna have to come up with some form of earnings unless you wanna be a faction of vagabonds.

3. Join a faction that doesn't charge it's members any taxes. Many factions are tax free such as my own I don't require any of my Officers, Members, or Recruits to pay taxes I pay all of it out of my own pocket and by donations given by people that wish to donate. I give incentives to donate too like access to our large potion supply for those that contribute but these donations are in no way required or enforced.

Really though taxes aren't that hard to deal with. Most factions have very low taxes like 1r to 5r a day which seriously takes no time at all to make in even a semi decent darkroom in under 5 minutes. Also voting will likely net you even more in even less time.

Silent_Ruler · May 22, 2015

Jackmo_Jones said:
If you don't like faction tax there are numerous ways around it.

1. Don't join a faction. If all you wanna do with your limited time is to roleplay you don't really need to be in a faction to do so. In fact it has always been my understanding that the faction side of this server and the roleplay side aren't connected. Things that don't happen in Regalia or other roleplay spots aren't considered a part of the lore.

2. Join a faction that's based in Regalia and has no claimed land and thus no faction taxes. There are plenty of places to live in Regalia and it's not impossible for a faction to base themselves in Regalia alone. Of course with this option you will still have to pay property fees so you're still gonna have to come up with some form of earnings unless you wanna be a faction of vagabonds.

3. Join a faction that doesn't charge it's members any taxes. Many factions are tax free such as my own I don't require any of my Officers, Members, or Recruits to pay taxes I pay all of it out of my own pocket and by donations given by people that wish to donate. I give incentives to donate too like access to our large potion supply for those that contribute but these donations are in no way required or enforced.

Really though taxes aren't that hard to deal with. Most factions have very low taxes like 1r to 5r a day which seriously takes no time at all to make in even a semi decent darkroom in under 5 minutes. Also voting will likely net you even more in even less time.

I'll see what I can do based on this, also for the sake of not continuing the argument.

Lord_Aza · May 23, 2015

SilentsAppeal said:
Oh yes. A shop.
Last time I checked you could either gather the materials yourself, which disrupts role-play, or buy them.
You need money to buy them. The other alternative would be to fight mobs- which also disrupts role-play.

I don't think you know what disrupting roleplay means.

Silent_Ruler · May 23, 2015

AzaFish said:
I don't think you know what disrupting roleplay means.

Disagree.
I just phrased it wrong. I meant that it disrupted the schedule people like to follow.

You know, I fail to see how pointing out a little flaw in grammar is relevant to the discussion. Furthermore, this comment is unnecessary. If you understood my point, there is no logical reason to attempt to point out such misuse publicly as if beneficial to your argument.

Be careful on what you say: it can be read, in this case, as a "Don't listen to this guy (despite him having a point due to being concerned). He doesn't even know how to properly use the definition of role-play disruption," attempt to publicly shame me.

I mean, if it was a sincere concern of yours, you would have contacted me with the definition and how to properly use it rather than just say it was incorrect. You would have also contacted me through my profile, as I have been requesting for the purpose of not starting flame.

I don't mind that I had one grammatical mistake in an argument done in my second language. Those of you who do have the advantage of knowing a better English have the upper hand. Would you have liked for me to do the same thing you just did to me should the argument have been done in Spanish? How would you feel?

I will quote myself once more, as I do not wish to further this argument.

SilentsAppeal said:
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I don't want to derail this thread's topic. If you'd like to continue the argument, contact me through my profile.

If you decide to derail the thread any further, it's on you. I offered an alternative. I will not consider myself to be responsible for the derailment of the thread.
I urge you to contact me through my profile.

PariahFolk · May 23, 2015

Agree Agree Agree Agree Agree Agree

The cost for factions should be raised, for all the reasons provided. I can't expand because of small inactive factions causing problems along my claim border, all founded by noobs who just hop on the server and mooch off actual Factions.

Jemo_ · May 23, 2015

SilentsAppeal said:
Snip

You should reread your first phrase before calling me rude, you littarly said that taxes should be dissabled for rpers (at least). For me it sound very rude and upsetting that, in my ears, you kinda want to say that RPers shouldn't take the time to get the money to sustain a faction. It sounds as if you say that RPers are or the underdog or the people who don't need to take their time for game related stuff.

On other note, I think the price should go up 2k like it was before. I think a faction should be worked for, people try their best to try and settle, whilst others just spawn in do some quests and kill a few mobs, maybe even vote and start claiming 20 chunks on a random spot for a chestroom or something.

+1

Silent_Ruler · May 23, 2015

RDRJemo said:
You should reread your first phrase before calling me rude, you littarly said that taxes should be dissabled for rpers (at least). For me it sound very rude and upsetting that, in my ears, you kinda want to say that RPers shouldn't take the time to get the money to sustain a faction. It sounds as if you say that RPers are or the underdog or the people who don't need to take their time for game related stuff.

Disabled, or given alternatives. Perhaps if we could earn some sort of money through role-play things rather and OOC things?

Furthermore, I said what I said- not what was perceived. For this reason, if it sounds like something- or you think I *want* to say something, you shouldn't be made upset.

I'll take my own advice and continue this in my profile.

Jouster · May 23, 2015

levers said:
Mecharic,
We want new players to be able to come to the server and establish themselves quickly, whether they are interested in joining an established faction or just setting out on their own. Some even arrive with their friends, and the ability to start up a faction and struggle together can be a really fun and formative experience. It's wonderful when players recognize the value of being part of a larger faction and work together, but that's not for everyone, and Factions also exists to protect small bands and hermits as much as it does kingdoms and their intermittently washed masses.

To my opinion, getting the regals WITH your friends seem a little more fun. Rather than joining a server and just creating a faction, me and my friend had worked hard to gain the 2,000 regals and it was more of a time than just killing a few mobs, voting, etc. in a few hours to create a faction. If you were to straight forward make a faction, it could possibly reduce the chances of players experiencing a lot in the wilderness, other than getting used to Massive and working for regals. Though the 1k regals is better, it's still a good option.

aprader1 · May 24, 2015

Mecharic said:
And then the server loses good people who could have continued to be active for ages if they hadn't met their goal (become faction leader) in their first day or two and then realized "wait, this is boring! -logs off-"

Establishing oneself quickly is fine and all, if you put in the effort to do so. Most people don't, because there is no effort needed to found a faction. I'm not saying "make it so expensive that only the premium rich people can afford it" I'm saying "make it so that noobs who log on once and never again can't make their own faction".

As for players wanting to stick together, I've yet to encounter a faction that didn't accept groups of players. Hell, I even give them chunks that are next to each other so they can build a group home. But most of the homes end up unfinished because they go off to found their own faction and then leave the server when it's too hard.

The harm is that while some may stay active and struggle through to recruit (which isn't easy with people able to found factions so easily btw) most will go inactive because they're hardly playing multiplayer if they're alone in a faction with no allies. The purpose of factions, I think, is to create communities that support and entertain each other, which in turn helps people stay active. Hell, the only reason I still log on is because I like chatting with people, if I was in a 1-man faction with no allies I'd probably only log on once a week or something (if that).

MassiveRestore doesn't make the server cope, it erases every single failure from view - but the failed factions still existed. The people who logged off and never came back are still there. Just because you can't see the ruins of the minifactions anymore doesn't make them any less real, and doesn't make the server any easier for such factions.

And a question: How many people stay active when their faction fails?

what about making it so that people need at least 3 or so hours of gameplay before you make a faction? that would encourage people to join one and stay active, but enough time so that they dont log on once and never again. idk if t should be 3 hours but something like that might work.

Jemo_ · May 24, 2015

aprader1 said:
what about making it so that people need at least 3 or so hours of gameplay before you make a faction? that would encourage people to join one and stay active, but enough time so that they dont log on once and never again. idk if t should be 3 hours but something like that might work.

I think a new guy and his friends should be able to make a faction, but like with 8 or more friends.
A faction on your own is just selfish and a forcing to join a faction to play with friends ain't fun either.
I think 8 friends with a half hour of effort should be more than able to make a faction on a higher faction cost.

Silent_Ruler · May 24, 2015

Factions, back in the day, used to cost 75 silver.
Why not raise it to 750? Still affordable, even to the poor like myself.

ZehGhost · May 24, 2015

SilentsAppeal said:
Factions, back in the day, used to cost 75 silver.
Why not raise it to 750? Still affordable, even to the poor like myself.

Completely agree, their are ups and downs with raising the cost but overall increasing the cost just a tad to 500r or more would solve the majority of our problems.

Archived Raise Faction Cost

I'm tempermental, deal with it.

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exactly 43.5 various checkbooks

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Oh really? Indeed.