Question About Faction Raids

[Hiddenmonkey10]

My friend recently bought a faction and the faction had no enemies, however, she was messaged by someone stating that they would attack her unless she paid xx silver (I forget the exact amount, but I know it was in the double digits and I want to say it was in the 60's?). Now, looking at the rule stating it is considered harassment if "a faction has no roleplay reasons or logical reasons to attack you, but simply does so out of personal spite. Note: admins will always be the judge of what is spite attacking and what is not." I'm not sure if it would be exactly considered "personal spite" but there was no logical reason to attack. Now, the next point I wish to bring up is that my friend's faction has 7 members, in asking for 60+ they are asking way over the maximum tribute, and this is even before a battle begins so there is no loss or harm to armor on any side. I'm not sure exactly, but is any of this something my friend should contact the mods about? And I've been noticing this more where factions are almost seeming to "bully" newer (and possibly less informed) factions into parting with their silver in order to remain peaceful, purposefully asking far over the maximum amount (I know in this case for sure because I mentioned to the other person and he stated that he knew he was asking for more.) So, these are basically the questions that I would like answered about this.
1. Is it illegal for a person to ask for tribute before attacking?

2. Is it illegal for them to purposefully ask for more in order to essentially scam less-informed factions?

3. I know it's been asked before, but seeing as this is an ever-growing problem, would there be any way to possibly add a "peaceful/non-peaceful" toggle to different factions?
4. If the peaceful/non-peaceful toggle wouldn't be possible, would there be a possibility of a rule being implemented stating that, unless a newly created faction attacks first, that other factions cannot target it within X amount of time?

Thank you for taking the time to look this over, and I hope to hear back shortly!

 

[Mattium_]

Raiding for silver is in-fact a legitimate reason,
If you can't deal with situations, you couldn't run a faction.

 

[Hiddenmonkey10]

Raiding for silver is in-fact a legitimate reason,
If you can't deal with situations, you couldn't run a faction.

Click to shrink...

I don't understand how it's exactly "legitimate" however, that being said, purposefully asking far over the maximum tribute is still inexcusable in my opinion. As for not being able to deal with situations, it's not right that someone that hasn't owned a faction for 24 hours yet already these situations are being sprung on them. I would understand if they've been there a few weeks or months, but less than a day?! That's a bit harsh.

 

[Mattium_]

I don't understand how it's exactly "legitimate" however, that being said, purposefully asking far over the maximum tribute is still inexcusable in my opinion. As for not being able to deal with situations, it's not right that someone that hasn't owned a faction for 24 hours yet already these situations are being sprung on them. I would understand if they've been there a few weeks or months, but less than a day?! That's a bit harsh.

Click to shrink...

If it's over the maximum tribute then yes it's illegal. However, raiding for silver is a legit rp reason, as it happened much in medieval days.

Leadership is meant for certain people, a Lord shouldn't look after people if they can't even look after themselves.
If you are skilled or have strong allies, or something different then yes, fine, good work.

But if you can't run a faction and protect yourself, either join one that can, or face lots of raids. This game isn't based to be easy, therefore someone running a faction should not get a free by hard even for a day, as that would defeat much purpose.

 

[Hiddenmonkey10]

If it's over the maximum tribute then yes it's illegal. However, raiding for silver is a legit rp reason, as it happened much in medieval days.

Leadership is meant for certain people, a Lord shouldn't look after people if they can't even look after themselves.
If you are skilled or have strong allies, or something different then yes, fine, good work.

But if you can't run a faction and protect yourself, either join one that can, or face lots of raids. This game isn't based to be easy, therefore someone running a faction should not get a free by hard even for a day, as that would defeat much purpose.

Click to shrink...

How can one learn if not given the opportunity? You can't expect one to learn how to be an effective leader and gain powerful allies when they are constantly under attack by people that want an unfair amount of silver in order to remain peaceful. If given a week of peace, they would have plenty of time to forge alliances, build up their defenses, and become properly settled. But being put under such stress after not even a day has passed is rather unfair in my opinion, a poor leader will show that they are a poor leader no matter how much time you give them. However, a good leader needs time to grow into their own. As for her joining a faction before leading one, she did and ran into the same issue that she's having now. It's my belief that it needs to be monitored, however I also wholly respect your opinion on the subject.

 

[Hiddenmonkey10]

By the way, I forgot to tag MonMarty in the original post. However, I only ask him because he's the only one I know is online at the moment. Marty, if you're not the one that deals with this, could you please tag whoever is? I think I have my answer on the first question, however the other 3 need more clarification.

 

[nray93]

Im not exactly sure how to lay out the rules in this case (I think an admin would have to judge that) but what I can tell you is how your friend should behave.
Ignore the unreasonable high demand.
Assuming you have under 10 members the maximum tribute is 1s per member so you can force them into a 75 day (2.5 months) truce.
Quoted from the Harrasment and Tribute Rules section:
If a faction offers you the legal limited silver amount for a peace treaty, you must accept it or drop the peace demands to something they find acceptable. You as an attacking faction cannot continue a war if the losers are sueing for peace and you refuse to accept their offerings made according to the rules defined here.
To all situations, the right of surrender applies. If a losing faction calls for a surrender, the winning factions must immediately state demands and cease raiding for an acceptable period of time.
As soon as they actually raid you can just make the maximum tribute offer (shouldn´t be much at <10 members) and they are forced to stop raiding that immediatly.

As for the extreme demands I think that this is on the borderline to scam already (demanding way over the allowed sum even before starting to enemie)

 

[Tuxyz]

I don't understand how it's exactly "legitimate" however, that being said, purposefully asking far over the maximum tribute is still inexcusable in my opinion. As for not being able to deal with situations, it's not right that someone that hasn't owned a faction for 24 hours yet already these situations are being sprung on them. I would understand if they've been there a few weeks or months, but less than a day?! That's a bit harsh.

Click to shrink...

I think that you are focusing a bit too much on the morals, while I personally agree that it might be a cheap thing to do, attacking a new faction is allowed.

To answer your questions


1. Is it illegal for a person to ask for tribute before attacking?
Merely asking for a tribute seems reasonable, you are sparing the enemy potential losses.
2. Is it illegal for them to purposefully ask for more in order to essentially scam less-informed factions?
Yes."There is a maximum amount of silver one may demand."
3. I know it's been asked before, but seeing as this is an ever-growing problem, would there be any way to possibly add a "peaceful/non-peaceful" toggle to different factions?Cayorion said that he is planning on working on something like this, but I do not know when he will start or how it will work.
4. If the peaceful/non-peaceful toggle wouldn't be possible, would there be a possibility of a rule being implemented stating that, unless a newly created faction attacks first, that other factions cannot target it within X amount of time?
I cannot give you an official answer on this one, but my guess would be that they won't, ever. This server is medieval, and the team wants it to stay that way, including the danger of living without protection/small protection.

 

[Mattium_]

How can one learn if not given the opportunity? You can't expect one to learn how to be an effective leader and gain powerful allies when they are constantly under attack by people that want an unfair amount of silver in order to remain peaceful. If given a week of peace, they would have plenty of time to forge alliances, build up their defenses, and become properly settled. But being put under such stress after not even a day has passed is rather unfair in my opinion, a poor leader will show that they are a poor leader no matter how much time you give them. However, a good leader needs time to grow into their own. As for her joining a faction before leading one, she did and ran into the same issue that she's having now. It's my belief that it needs to be monitored, however I also wholly respect your opinion on the subject.

Click to shrink...

There is a process.
You learn from opportunity, Yes, completely agree. However there is a learning process.
This includes the Cognitive, Associative & Autonomous. In easy terms, Technique, Practice, Automatic.

You can't expect to run a faction, if you have not been leaded and risen in ranks first. You learn from others, you don't just pick it up. If someone joins a faction that rises, and they rise with it, they will be given a position of leadership, in which they learn how to lead. If you have not learn't this, then you have not "earned" the right to lead others, nor will someone automatically give it to you. It MUST be earned.

Others will support your cause if you give them reason to. Life is not handed to you on a plate Lad, it's taken. If this person wants to lead, they have to take it. A week of peace is not needed if someone has the sense to plan, organize and then implement actions - It's Patience.
A good leader does not need "time to grow into their own" - This is doesn't even make sense, and is just you trying to make a lacking argument to save your soul. If someone is a good leader, it means they are a successful leader & have taken appropriate actions to do so, they don't need to grow into their own, they are already there.

If this "friend" ran into the issue before, it means two things. It make be harsh but maybe s/he isn't right for position of leadership yet, and needs to thoroughly review their methods. Or, additionally, maybe they haven't learnt enough or in the right place and need to look at other factions to learn from.

 

[Hiddenmonkey10]

Mattium_ To me, it seems like you are a man of results as opposed to a man of opportunity such as myself. Whereas you believe the only people that deserve a chance to prove themselves are those that have had previous experience, I believe that everyone has the potential to be a leader in their own rights. That being said, in my opinion, those that will be successful will be the ones that are given the opportunity to become so, I don't know how she will turn out with leading, however she already has the support of the few members she has and I can't say that's a bad start. Also, when an issue arose that she needed help with, she asked me since I have had experience with this exact type of situation previously. These decisions, to me, show that she is already a great leader, however, in order for her to continue to be so, she needs the opportunity to grow and become familiar with her members without constantly being forced to take cover until she can pay off people that want a little extra silver. I'm not saying she won't get the opportunity, however I'm more disappointed in the other faction for trying to declare war when she took every precaution to declare peace from start. Now, I understand that it's times like these that define what kind of a leader a person will be and, to me, she's doing a good job at working through this first problem. I just find it rather annoying that she has to have this problem so soon after becoming a leader. That being said, this thread was NOT created to question the leadership of others, rather it was created to bring to light an issue about factions, or members of said factions, attempting to take advantage of others that would possibly not know the rules for a peace offering. Due to this, I feel that we've gotten off of the main topic of the post.

 

[Beowwulf]

There is a very simple solution to this. Make a safe house for everyone in the faction that is unraidable. Make cannons and places to shoot arrows out of. They will retreat.

 

[Hiddenmonkey10]

However, I know from experience (and about a hundred raids from Chronikatr) that members get sick and tired of hiding in a safe house... It makes them want to quit for a better faction.

 

[Beowwulf]

You won't be hiding and only one person needs to be in there in order to fight back. You'll just be invincible.

 

[TechPac]

Hiddenmonkey10
chin up man, theres going to be a way to set your faction as "peaceful" in the future.

 

[Mecharic]

Hiddenmonkey10 - If they don't have a legit roleplay reason (like they're actively roleplaying as bandits or something) then they can't attack you. Simply wanting silver isn't enough, every word they say has to be roleplayed towards the bandit or pirate theme. Also, if the faction being raided does surrender but can't get the silver right away they can always borrow from Mechbank and pay it off over time (it lessens the immediate load on faction members to get silver). (blantant self-advertising (bandit)).

 

[TechPac]

Hiddenmonkey10 - If they don't have a legit roleplay reason (like they're actively roleplaying as bandits or something) then they can't attack you. Simply wanting silver isn't enough, every word they say has to be roleplayed towards the bandit or pirate theme. Also, if the faction being raided does surrender but can't get the silver right away they can always borrow from Mechbank and pay it off over time (it lessens the immediate load on faction members to get silver). (blantant self-advertising (bandit)).

Click to shrink...

Really? I never knew that? ...Then there are actually alot of other unjust raids going on. :/

 

[Hiddenmonkey10]

TechPac It's not my faction, but the peaceful thing is going to be very useful in the future, since Lanilor isn't really wanting enemies now either!
Mecharic To my knowledge, they don't have any reason, other than wanting the surrender money, they messaged my friend and told her that she either surrenders money or they attack

 

[TechPac]

What faction is this, and what faction is being attacked?

 

[Shadow]

I DONT HELP AT ALL!

 

[Miss_Confined]

What faction is this, and what faction is being attacked?

Click to shrink...

Omnomivore Is this the faction I heard we got as a Sub? Who's bothering you, Eb will go all crazy blind woman on them... I am pleased to hear there may be "peaceful" factions, I kinda wanted to join the sub... Eh As long as my girls will be safe that's all that matters, (H)

 

[Omnomivore]

Mecharic

Haha, I like the way you think.

Now then, I've just been quietly reading the thread and holding back on saying anything but I wish to make what happened very clear so there is no confusion about what happened.

In any case, here is the situation defined:

I started getting messaged by a premium, the leader of another faction. I answered him with nothing but a friendly and cordial air, but he certainly had motives behind the conversation. He "suggested" that our factions truce, and stated firmly that the truce would have cost. He instantly said that I should pay 68 silver and when I immediately called him out on that being much too high (I pulled up the Harassment and Raids Tribute rules page the instant he started talking about truce). His immediate response was that he could drop it to 50 silver for me to pay, and that if I didn't pay up that he could come "visit" me by raiding me each day, every day, until I complied.

I stopped answering him at this point and asked Adam about it, and Adam clarified what my suspicions were. My faction currently consists of just myself and about four or five other people. At maximum, as a tier one faction, we would have to pay about 7 silver in terms for peace.

Insofar I have been building my allies in my faction. I have hardly owned it for more than 24 hours but I already have quite a few allies and no enemies. I would like to keep my enemies down for as long as possible, considering I wish my faction to be more peaceful and oriented towards civilization and roleplay. I just met my other faction members last night after the leadership change and have already found them to be very respectful, kind, and willing to assist in anything I need just as I'm willing to help them. I wouldn't call that a bad start.

No, I have not been a leader long. I have been, in a sense, helping to co-lead another faction prior to this, although I never dealt with other factions in this because the leader had the final call on everything and wanted to handle it. So yes, I am inexperienced in handling other factions, but I am not completely ignorant.

I just found it rather irritating to be harassed in such a short span of time, outside of roleplay.

In any case, this thread has been very informative, if nothing else. Thank you everyone that has been insofar constructive on answering Adam's questions outlined earlier.

TechPac

We have avoided using names on the forums for the sake of keeping this more focused on the questions than the factions themselves.

ConfinedPandora

No, this is not a subfaction. I purchased a faction that someone was selling.

 

[Miss_Confined]

Mecharic

Haha, I like the way you think.

Now then, I've just been quietly reading the thread and holding back on saying anything but I wish to make what happened very clear so there is no confusion about what happened.

In any case, here is the situation defined:

I started getting messaged by a premium, the leader of another faction. I answered him with nothing but a friendly and cordial air, but he certainly had motives behind the conversation. He "suggested" that our factions truce, and stated firmly that the truce would have cost. He instantly said that I should pay 68 silver and when I immediately called him out on that being much too high (I pulled up the Harassment and Raids Tribute rules page the instant he started talking about truce). His immediate response was that he could drop it to 50 silver for me to pay, and that if I didn't pay up that he could come "visit" me by raiding me each day, every day, until I complied.

I stopped answering him at this point and asked Adam about it, and Adam clarified what my suspicions were. My faction currently consists of just myself and about four or five other people. At maximum, as a tier one faction, we would have to pay about 7 silver in terms for peace.

Insofar I have been building my allies in my faction. I have hardly owned it for more than 24 hours but I already have quite a few allies and no enemies. I would like to keep my enemies down for as long as possible, considering I wish my faction to be more peaceful and oriented towards civilization and roleplay. I just met my other faction members last night after the leadership change and have already found them to be very respectful, kind, and willing to assist in anything I need just as I'm willing to help them. I wouldn't call that a bad start.

No, I have not been a leader long. I have been, in a sense, helping to co-lead another faction prior to this, although I never dealt with other factions in this because the leader had the final call on everything and wanted to handle it. So yes, I am inexperienced in handling other factions, but I am not completely ignorant.

I just found it rather irritating to be harassed in such a short span of time, outside of roleplay.

In any case, this thread has been very informative, if nothing else. Thank you everyone that has been insofar constructive on answering Adam's questions outlined earlier.

TechPac

We have avoided using names on the forums for the sake of keeping this more focused on the questions than the factions themselves.

ConfinedPandora

No, this is not a subfaction. I purchased a faction that someone was selling.

Click to shrink...

o_o Of course I get the wrong information, I thought it was a sub-faction of Insurgo, are you gone for good? T^T That's depressing I just lost Rowan too... Eb's just going to sit and think about her life.

 

[SilverAlbatross]

The Albatross Method to surviving a raid
1. Become a decently-known RPer by talking to EVERY. SINGLE. ALLY. (in character)
2. When someone raids, haul everyone to Regalia
3. RP for a few hours until they leave
4. Scrounge money, either by making someone RP as a beggar or asking good friends
5. Pay the debt

The Bioshock-Fanboy method to paying tribute
1. Hand them a female faction member
2. Wait for them to ask why you did that
3. Smile and say "Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt lulz"

Hope that helps

 

[Commanderkull]

I've seen some really dumb reasons to raid but raiding for silver is legit so I wouldn't complain.

 

[Mecharic]

I've seen some really dumb reasons to raid but raiding for silver is legit so I wouldn't complain.

Click to shrink...

It's not legit... at least, I'd call in admins about harassment.

 

[TiroTypo]

I think for the "peaceful faction" thing, being a peaceful faction should mean you can only neutral and ally and truce people and vice versa. Which means you can stay neutral with them if you don't like them and you can kill them if they come into your base or you meet them in wilderness but they are safe in there faction lands.

 

[Commanderkull]

It's not legit... at least, I'd call in admins about harassment.

Click to shrink...

How is it not legit, an rp reason can be anything, and your saying that people irl never went to war to gain money? (Medieval times)

 

[Mecharic]

How is it not legit, an rp reason can be anything, and your saying that people irl never went to war to gain money? (Medieval times)

Click to shrink...

Because if they just say, out of the blue, "Oh, lets raid for silver" that's not roleplay thats duchebaggery. If their roleplay is based on being bandits or pirates or something then I can understand raiding for booty.

 

[Mattium_]

Hiddenmonkey10 - If they don't have a legit roleplay reason (like they're actively roleplaying as bandits or something) then they can't attack you. Simply wanting silver isn't enough, every word they say has to be roleplayed towards the bandit or pirate theme. Also, if the faction being raided does surrender but can't get the silver right away they can always borrow from Mechbank and pay it off over time (it lessens the immediate load on faction members to get silver). (blantant self-advertising (bandit)).

Click to shrink...

I don't actually think this is right Mecharic.
Unless it's changed in the last two months, I've had small faction friends & myself that have been raided for silver, and when I asked the mods, the reply was "Raiding for Silver is a legit reason.".

 

[Mattium_]

Mattium_ To me, it seems like you are a man of results as opposed to a man of opportunity such as myself. Whereas you believe the only people that deserve a chance to prove themselves are those that have had previous experience, I believe that everyone has the potential to be a leader in their own rights.

That being said, in my opinion, those that will be successful will be the ones that are given the opportunity to become so, I don't know how she will turn out with leading, however she already has the support of the few members she has and I can't say that's a bad start. Also, when an issue arose that she needed help with, she asked me since I have had experience with this exact type of situation previously.
These decisions, to me, show that she is already a great leader, however, in order for her to continue to be so, she needs the opportunity to grow and become familiar with her members without constantly being forced to take cover until she can pay off people that want a little extra silver. I'm not saying she won't get the opportunity, however I'm more disappointed in the other faction for trying to declare war when she took every precaution to declare peace from start. Now, I understand that it's times like these that define what kind of a leader a person will be and, to me, she's doing a good job at working through this first problem. I just find it rather annoying that she has to have this problem so soon after becoming a leader. That being said, this thread was NOT created to question the leadership of others, rather it was created to bring to light an issue about factions, or members of said factions, attempting to take advantage of others that would possibly not know the rules for a peace offering. Due to this, I feel that we've gotten off of the main topic of the post.

Click to shrink...

When you reply, can you PLEASE break the paragraphs up. It's hard to read this.

Yes, I am a man of results, but also a man of opportunity. I'm sorry man, but either you have no idea how stupid that sounds, or your now just arguing for the point of arguing.

You take opportunities to get results, therefore they are hand in hand - I am a man of opportunities and results.
You aren't listening and obviously haven't gone through a course of study in management or anything as you're making assumptions that have no evidence.

I believe in, if you want something, you go out and get it. Anyone can do that, but some choose not to - It's simply. You are however correct that you need experience to lead.
What you're basically saying in, a 16 year old guy can run a CEO company well, without expecting it to go down under. That is EXACTLY what you are expecting, which in unrealistic and idiotic.
I never said that "Everyone doesn't have the potential to be a leader" but you acting have to work for it. It can't just be given to you - You have to EARN it.

That's not a bad start but it's not a great start. You can't expect her to rise in succession with a "Few members support" - She needs a lot of support.
She needs allies that are willing to kill for her, she needs people who will not want to raid her because she's known to be a great leader - She needs to organize. And you cannot, realistically, say "the opportunity is enough". - It's not.

No, that doesn't show she's a great leader. Seriously mate, you need to read through before writing just for the sake of arguing - I'm sorry but that's what you are doing.

"These decisions, to me, show that she is already a great leader, however, in order for her to continue to be so" - What decisions? You've barely stated any..... All you've stated is that she went to you for help, and that certainly doesn't make her a great leader. A great leader would know how to deal with that situation.
I've done a business Management 3/4 course and from what I've learnt is "Successful" management.

How is she doing a good job? If she was doing a good job in this situation, this post wouldn't need to be made... Think that through.
- Get back to me when your argument makes sense.
P.S, don't take any of this to heart. I've done debating, Business Management 3/4 and a few smaller management roles at school, and I quite excel in them, therefore this is why my argument.

 

[Mattium_]

The Albatross Method to surviving a raid
1. Become a decently-known RPer by talking to EVERY. SINGLE. ALLY. (in character)
2. When someone raids, haul everyone to Regalia
3. RP for a few hours until they leave
4. Scrounge money, either by making someone RP as a beggar or asking good friends
5. Pay the debt

The Bioshock-Fanboy method to paying tribute
1. Hand them a female faction member
2. Wait for them to ask why you did that
3. Smile and say "Bring us the girl and wipe away the debt lulz"

Hope that helps

Click to shrink...

Example A.
"Become a decently-known Rper by talking to EVERY. SINGLE. ALLY"
- This will reinforce others support.

 

[Mattium_]

Because if they just say, out of the blue, "Oh, lets raid for silver" that's not roleplay thats duchebaggery. If their roleplay is based on being bandits or pirates or something then I can understand raiding for booty.

Click to shrink...

I understand what you are saying.... I just don't think it's accurate.
I've seen plenty of factions raid for Silver - This being the only one. Thaelyn is one of them.

 

[McMuffin55]

Because if they just say, out of the blue, "Oh, lets raid for silver" that's not roleplay thats duchebaggery. If their roleplay is based on being bandits or pirates or something then I can understand raiding for booty.

Click to shrink...

Y'arghh

 

[Beowwulf]

Because if they just say, out of the blue, "Oh, lets raid for silver" that's not roleplay thats duchebaggery. If their roleplay is based on being bandits or pirates or something then I can understand raiding for booty.

Click to shrink...

Raiding for the booty. Must. Find. Meme

 

[Beowwulf]

Found one.

 

[Alj23]

I understand what you are saying.... I just don't think it's accurate.
I've seen plenty of factions raid for Silver - This being the only one. Thaelyn is one of them.

Click to shrink...

Fake Thaelyn or real Thaelyn?

 

[patrickdxs]

wow some people are really horrible. let me explain all the details wrong with this in depth

1. they are not doing it for the role play experience, they just want money for the sake of having money.

2. in game money has no real connection to role play, thus role playing for it isn't a valid reason.

3. bullying factions into giving up money that has no role play significance is borderline cyber bulling and just adds to the stereotype that minecraft is full of griefers who want to ruin other people's day.

4. they are a new faction, they shouldn't even be known and a target for any role play reason in the first day with ten members.

5. they are asking more money then the faction can offer, which is a unfair and unreasonable demand.

6. why should new players be restricted to joining a already powerful faction and having to spend years setting things up before they can make a faction without instant death threats?

7. this isn't even for the sake of pvp which i loath as a reason, they only want in game money most likely to have more items to pvp with so they can continue the cycle until the best factions have NO role play significance, do you want that?

8. last i checked people wanted faction raids to be a role play experience in massive craft not some pvp affair where one bully's the other for virtual money.

9. what point other then increasing your worthless (both real life and role play wise) money? money that you can get without screwing someone over.

10. these people didn't even think about role playing one bit, they just wanted money and had no interest how they got it or from whom, do you want your role plays to be interrupted by random people in the street going "i have teh awesomez factions gives me silverz or i raidz youz!"

this is what will happen, people threatened with raids for in game money by idiots in a powerful faction that care nothing about the whole point of massivecraft as a server. ROLE PLAYING, yes it is a rp pvp server but when you remove rp from the pvp it becomes a factions server with to many people and huge restrictions between donators and non donators. the worst kind of server ever.