Archived Pvp Staff.

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Footymaster786

Footymaster786

Just That Guy With A Bit Of Swag
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This topic has been debated ALOT and I am well aware of that. But to be honest I have never really seen an outcome out of these arguments. I propose a sort of different idea than the previous ones I have read, there could be an unban staff. It sounds stupid I know but I mean if someone was banned for anything to do with pvp/hacking there should be a pvp staff (not game staff) that have a large knowledge of pvp. They could review the situations and decide if it is ban worthy/unban worthy. I am not trying to disrespect the current game staff but I personally think there could be players that have a larger understanding. There privileges could be restricted only to the forums. Thanks for reading. Post what you think.
 
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Thortuna said:
@Dam94 If i was to talk to every person i ban or involve players everytime they break a rule to say hey hey no no bad bad player that is a huuge waste of time i could spend on other things. It simply does not work like that. If you stab someone on the street the police will not say hey you shouldn't have done that and let you go.... Its simply not plausible at all. You can all read the rules and follow them. Staff makes mistakes sometimes yes but how many times do we really make a mistake compared to how many times we get it right on?
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If I stab someone I go to court .. I get presented with what rules I broke and get the right to defend myself or explain if the man was trying to kill me as well or w/e.

I don't think you understand what I mean. I don't really expect that, all I was asking was for the guy getting judged to be a part of the ban report, so he knows what he did wrong. Don't let them go free, ban them, but let them know why, and a single word or sentence just doesn't cut it if you don't want them to come back asking questions and bothering you even more.
 
But we do inform them on their ban appeals so your point is moot @Dam94
 
Sisley_ said:
@thor5648 Get unbanned. Plz.
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Haha, I don't deserve to be unbanned as it is right now. Gotta help out the community and show I'm worth having around, currently working on something that involves getting a group of 30 people or so to come up with and make orderly, well thought out suggestions, that we show rpers and see what they think before we post. Be patient, all in good time. ;)
 
@Thortuna @MonMarty
What do you think about this: Not making any of these players staff of any sorts, but having a group of knowledgable pvpers that you can get an opinion on if it is a tough case where it shows someone who looks kind of like they may be using something illegal, but kind of not. You as staff would obviously have to take into account personal relations etc etc. If you see something that could go wrong with that, please share, as staff feedback is always nice.
 
thor5648 said:
Haha, I don't deserve to be unbanned as it is right now. Gotta help out the community and show I'm worth having around, currently working on something that involves getting a group of 30 people or so to come up with and make orderly, well thought out suggestions, that we show rpers and see what they think before we post. Be patient, all in good time. ;)
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I can help :D
 
@thor5648 The problem is that the people accused of hacking is either one of you or one of your enemies so how to trust you wont say oh no heeee aint hacking to one of your friends and lay in hard on an enemy? There is no guarantee of that wich is why we dont do that. The staff handle the cases just fine if you have a complaint against a decision post it on staff complaints. So many of you have broken the rules over and over again and you also have big mouths i would personally not trust you with the sensitive information we gather for ban appeals and requests.

And if you think i am going to go around looking at who is friends with who then you sir are sadly mistaken, much to do little time to do it in.
 
Thortuna said:
@thor5648 The problem is that the people accused of hacking is either one of you or one of your enemies so how to trust you wont say oh no heeee aint hacking to one of your friends and lay in hard on an enemy? There is no guarantee of that wich is why we dont do that. The staff handle the cases just fine if you have a complaint against a decision post it on staff complaints. So many of you have broken the rules over and over again and you also have big mouths i would personally not trust you with the sensitive information we gather for ban appeals and requests.
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A good point indeed. Thanks for replying and giving feedback :D
 
Thortuna said:
But we do inform them on their ban appeals so your point is moot @Dam94
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I had no idea what I was specifically banned for besides rumor from players and those that reported me. All it said was 'using a hacked client', when the main problem between me and the staff was me allegedly using autoclicker. :I
 
So, you don't have the time to allow the convicted to have some part in your trial @Thortuna? I can think of a few solutions to that problem.
Also, knowledge of normal PVP, and knowledge of all PVP are two different things. PVP is a big part of the game, so I doubt any of the current PVP experts know close to even half of everything about it (no offense but ~4 assumed experts doesn't cut it for me). If someone says they know a lot about it or could help, the possibility to hear them out and/or recruit them should be available. You never know when a PVP genius will present themselves to you.
 
Footy, Massive is a strict roleplay server. It has been made clear time ane time again. Hardcore PVP will NEVER be accepted. Thease threads keep popin up and never go anywhere.
 
Thortuna said:
But we do inform them on their ban appeals so your point is moot @Dam94
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So you need to write an appeal to know what you have done wrong, but you need to know what you have done wrong in order to write a proper appeal ..

Seems very complicated and not so effective, for the people handling appeals atleast.

It started as constructive criticism, and I talk out of experience since I've been through the system a couple of times. I only thought it would be healthy for the staff to know what it's like on the receiving end. Take it or leave it.
 
A fanboy who got raided every single day :p @Footymaster786, lol i remember when magnanimus asked me to join and i sed no. Biggest mistake ever...
 
Dam94 said:
So you need to write an appeal to know what you have done wrong, but you need to know what you have done wrong in order to write a proper appeal ..

Seems very complicated and not so effective, for the people handling appeals atleast.

It started as constructive criticism, and I talk out of experience since I've been through the system a couple of times. I only thought it would be healthy for the staff to know what it's like on the receiving end. Take it or leave it.
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You just edit the apeal when you know the propper information? And say under it that you didn't knew about it?
 
Thortuna said:
But we do inform them on their ban appeals so your point is moot @Dam94
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Take my first appeal for example. I was originally banned for not being able to be hit, but nobody told me this and I thought I was banned for a bit of lag which made it look like I shifted an sprinted at the same time. So ofc my appeal got rejected. But if you guys would've told me what I actually done I would of actually been able to write a good appeal and explain what happened. Yes I know most bans. The person who got banned knew what they did but there is a percentage in which haven't any idea. So I agree with @Dam94 on this.
 
Jemo21 said:
You just edit the apeal when you know the propper information? And say under it that you didn't knew about it?
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You got 1 appeal per month and usually when they tell you what you did wrong they vote as well. Few fixes in the system could spare a lot of time and grief for atleast the guy getting the ban
 
Dam94 said:
You got 1 appeal per month and usually when they tell you what you did wrong they vote as well. Few fixes in the system could spare a lot of time and grief for atleast the guy getting the ban
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Mostly of the time you know what they mean, like me threatening staff after beeing punished, I find these ban reasons most of the time easy to unchifer ( what ever decode you know what i mean)
 
Jemo21 said:
Mostly of the time you know what they mean, like me threatening staff after beeing punished, I find these ban reasons most of the time easy to unchifer ( what ever decode you know what i mean)
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You honestly don't have a clue on how frustrating it is putting work in to an appeal then you find out you misjudged the situation and then bam 2 no's and you have to wait another month
 
Footymaster786 said:
The person who got banned knew what they did but there is a percentage in which haven't any idea.
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Really? because when I look at the current ban appeal queue, every single ban appeal knows exactly what they did wrong, given the fact that the game staff's record of false bans is staggeringly low.

I'd also love to hear how you supposedly know the ins and outs of ban appeals, given they are counted as confidential information, and you don't have access to that section.
 
Ahem it shows what you were banned for if you try to log in. Also if you go on teamspeak and ask an admin, for example I asked a friend who banned me, they told me who, so I went and talked to @Jamescl and he explained why I was banned in a quick conversation. The staff aren't trying to be your enemy, just go on and talk to them in teamspeak once in a while to see what you did wrong.
@Dam94
@Footymaster786
 
MonMarty said:
I'd also love to hear how you supposedly know the ins and outs of ban appeals, given they are counted as confidential information, and you don't have access to that section.
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I don't know the ins and outs of ban appeals. I just guessed on the amount of people that have told me that they didn't understand why they were banned. Like if you were banned for using a hacked client, and the message is "banned for using a hacked client" the person doesn't know what specific situation they were banned for unless they are told directly via teamspeak or forums which makes it hard to write an unban appeal. Also I didn't mean to offend the game staff or any other staff for that matter. I also poorly worded that post so I apologise. :L
 
So, you don't have the time to allow the convicted to have some part in your trial @Thortuna? I can think of a few solutions to that problem.
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You sir are twisting my words. In ban appeals we do hear them out they are allowed to post what they want to be unbanned and i even try to answer any question they have aslong as it does not become on the expense of the person who reported it. We have pvp experts so why are your so called experts different? Many of yours have trained under ours...logic? i think not.

are you sure you're in the right thread? This is about roleplay staff, not hardcore PVP.
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What? This is about Roleplay staff now? The thread is made because some pvpers want PVP staff or that pvpers outside of staff should be consulted on pvp bans for example. It has nothing to do with roleplay staff. Then you need to start reading and not just making assumptions.

and the message is "banned for using a hacked client" the person doesn't know what specific situation they were banned for
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If this is the case then you have done so many things you shouldnt and cant keep track what hack you used when then i am voiding that opinion as moot!

We work hard on improving our way of punishing people, writing better ban messages but we have limited space to type a reason in so sometimes you get a very broad term like "using a hacked client" It entails that we have seen or have seen proof that you are using 1 or more features of a hacked client. Usually our ban reason are quite accurate and to the point and most people have no trouble understanding what they did to get there. If you are in doubt ask to talk to a staffmember on teamspeak and i am sure they will be able to tell you the reason, this does however mean you are expected to keep your cool, not argue the ban then and there, be respectfull and learn the reason so you understand it and be on your way to a ban appeal.
 
Thortuna said:
If this is the case then you have done so many things you shouldnt and cant keep track what hack you used when then i am voiding that opinion as moot!
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Thats not what I meant, The person could of been in many pvp situations that they don't judge as looking sketchy but others do. Im also not referring to my self xD.
 
Thortuna said:
What? This is about Roleplay staff now? The thread is made because some pvpers want PVP staff or that pvpers outside of staff should be consulted on pvp bans for example. It has nothing to do with roleplay staff. Then you need to start reading and not just making assumptions.
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That was a typo. I meant PVP staff, not roleplay.

Thortuna said:
We have pvp experts so why are your so called experts different? Many of yours have trained under ours...logic? i think not.
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Mine? I never mentioned anything about knowing any PVP experts. Why do you keep saying yours?

Thortuna said:
You sir are twisting my words. In ban appeals we do hear them out they are allowed to post what they want to be unbanned and i even try to answer any question they have aslong as it does not become on the expense of the person who reported it.
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I didn't understand that at first. Thanks for explaining.
 
Phrowenia said:
Game Staff = Controls ingame events such as pvp fights. I don't see why this should be added.
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I mostly see staff dealing with IG Roleplay matters. But that's just what I see, and others may see differently. It's possible we really need more staff to moderate such a large player base.
 
Thortuna said:
@thor5648 The problem is that the people accused of hacking is either one of you or one of your enemies so how to trust you wont say oh no heeee aint hacking to one of your friends and lay in hard on an enemy? There is no guarantee of that wich is why we dont do that. The staff handle the cases just fine if you have a complaint against a decision post it on staff complaints. So many of you have broken the rules over and over again and you also have big mouths i would personally not trust you with the sensitive information we gather for ban appeals and requests.

And if you think i am going to go around looking at who is friends with who then you sir are sadly mistaken, much to do little time to do it in.
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I'm quite sure that's already happening with the staff making decisions where they are / would be completely biased to one side.
 
In my opinion, PvP Staff would change absolutely nothing.

Such pvp staff would have to some knowledge of PvP and as a result there would likely be some bias involved. As well, there remains a significant lack of clarity on any PvP video. It is just as likely for lag, or luck to be reported as hacking due to the inherent nature of Minecraft combat and the Massivecraft pvp community which constantly inundates the forums with ban requests and accusations of hacking.

PvP could be improved but this is not the direction to go. New content should be suggested rather than arguing over the same old things which the community was divided on last time.
 
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BenAlex144 said:
I mostly see staff dealing with IG Roleplay matters. But that's just what I see, and others may see differently. It's possible we really need more staff to moderate such a large player base.
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Well i almost never saw game staff acting in roleplay events, only once. Though 25% of the time goes in roleplay. I think it is just a matter of who where and how much you role play. It's just balanced i guesse
 
I mostly see staff dealing with IG Roleplay matters.
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The tickets we get hardly ever revolves around roleplay so no you are quite mistaken.

I'm quite sure that's already happening with the staff making decisions where they are / would be completely biased to one side.
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If a staff is obviously biased and cant handle the case they recuse themselves. As do i if it involves my faction directly i feel it is wrong for me to deal with the situation so i call another staff to deal with it to have as fair a judgement as possible. You are wildly throwing accusations now that the staff ARE biased with no evidence to support your claim.
 
Well with the new combat log plugin going to be added and that recent very good pvpers are now staff (I don't have to call names :P), I do not see a use for pvp staff anymore. My vote was wrong.
This is becoming a 'staff defend/attack topic' (I don't know what in the world I should call it xP) since that random users make randome accusements about staff or non staff. I can see that most of us can now dissagree about the pvp staff thingy. Because in reality the game ranks are the pvp staff.
 
Question, if a combat log plugin does get incorporated, what will happen to people who lag out?
 
It is still in the works but it is on the agenda i do not have the finer details of it as of yet
 
Thortuna said:
The tickets we get hardly ever revolves around roleplay so no you are quite mistaken.

If a staff is obviously biased and cant handle the case they recuse themselves. As do i if it involves my faction directly i feel it is wrong for me to deal with the situation so i call another staff to deal with it to have as fair a judgement as possible. You are wildly throwing accusations now that the staff ARE biased with no evidence to support your claim.
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How can we say the staff are unbiased towards each other. This staff is just like any other staff of workers for any other job in the world. It is a group of regular people who work together to solve problems, and complete the work that they are "contracted" to do. However, what happens when staff become less of colleagues and more of friends, or are already friends before becoming staff. It is true that friends are more likely to do favors for their friend rather than heir colleagues, so how can we be sure that staff is not just a friends circle scratching each others backs? We can only know if the staff is unbiased by creating some form of review board or internal affairs to look over staff behavior. I will admit the staff work hard, but I will also stand by the opinion that some good people have been banned under sketchy circumstances.
 
If you come over a situation where you feel staff are biased you report it and it is reviewed by maybe the most impartial party wich is @MonMarty or Cayorion himself. Several staff have been punished for breaking rules some even after they became staff so saying we are biased with no inherent proof still counts as a moot point. I never said you WERE biased i implied that if it was an outsource program we would have no quality control of it. I considder the staff staff and yeah i am friendly to them but if you break the rules the reason of oh im staff does not fall into my good graces atleast. Im equally as harsh if not harsher on them.
 
I am friendly towards the RP staff and World staff. I'd be quite honest in stating that I have little to none contact with the game staff and thus wouldn't necessarily describe half of them as my friends. I believe I'm a fairly impartial internal quality check, as the majority of the RP staff aren't even staff members, but simply players with elevated communication channels.
 
Based on the comments I saw of "a banned player not knowing much about why they were banned." I suggest posting an "unofficial unban" appeal. In the post you state that the post is just to learn a bit more about why you were banned, not for voting on. Then once you feel you have more information to work with, make a real unban appeal.
 
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