Pvp Rp

[Mecharic]

Deleted my post because everyone was mistaking it for an accidental insult instead of an attempt to provoke thought. It was a statement not an opinion. If you rate it offensive, then it's your fault for thinking that way.

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Ok. I'll remove my post, but yours WAS worded in a manner that seemed insulting to PvPers.

 

[Mecharic]

Yes you do have a choice in removing the enemy status. You can surrender. Then the enemy is forced by the rules to revoke his enemy status.

You are right now trying to benefit those factions, who sit inside of their walls all day long saying:"You can't kill us, nananana naa naa! Now you are losing! Nananana naa naa."
Actually it would encourage people even more to just sit in their base and refuse to fight or surrender.

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Not if both sides need to pay the war tax. I personally think that both sides should pay, just because the RP faction didn't agree to the war doesn't mean the war isn't real. Britain didn't agree to the US Revolution, but they sure as hell paid for it.

 

[Mecharic]

*cough* Deathfist *cough*

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*cough*getthisrudeshitouttahere*cough*

Seriously though, not productive, please remove.

 

[Cruallassar]

Having staff- made towns spread out around the world is a great idea. This way there are more locations to roleplay safely. We only have human settlements to roleplay in. One of them is laggy as hell as it happens to be the uspawn.

Solution:

Make the /uspawn a seperate world. Just for that. Have it be a harbor or something. A small island with a portal that players get to from the multiverse hub. From there, there are different boats. Have a few quests there. Only make the island, like, 9 chunks. This also helps solve a large problem of new players joining, then getting lagged out at the spawn city.

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Regalia is already almost just that. Only difference is portal to multiverse hub and size, which is slightly ridiculous. And it is an rp center.

 

[BenRekt]

I REALLY like the idea of having a cost associated with maintaining an enemy. So far there is a direct financial cost to surrendering but there is no cost to declaring or waging war.

Since this is MassiveCraft, is it possible to make a small adjustment/addition to Factions so that there is an option to enable a "Tax" value in currency, per hour/tick/day whatever, that a faction holds another faction declared as an enemy and have it multiplied by the number of members in the faction declared an enemy? This would see an immediate change in the server and factions holding others as enemies out of spite for months at a time would suddenly feel the cost of war in their pocketbook. This would also prevent the "noob" faction wanting to enemy every powerful faction on the sever from happening, they would quickly be bankrupt. This could also help faction fight off an enemy by recruiting and increasing their numbers until that can "financially" outnumber the attacking faction and thus prevent further attacks.

Message like:
"You cannot afford to Enemy this Faction at this time"
"You cannot afford to maintain this Faction as an Enemy at this time"
"You spend 200s and Enemy XFaction"
"Your Upkeep of 20s to maintain Enemys XFaction, YFaction and ZFaction has been paid"

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All that would happen is that the more powerful PvPers would become even more powerful due to the fact that most are richer than many rpers (Although some RPers are very rich, just my experience so far). I think this is a good idea on paper, but wont work out.

 

[Mecharic]

Completely honest here, I think the way things are now (mandatory surrender terms, mandatory truce when surrender occurs, no interfering in public peaceful RP events) is a decent balance, gameplay wise. The only issues I think really exist are perceived wrongs by pvpers against rpers and vice versa. The two sides need to accept each other and work together more to create their own balance and rules, and shouldn't rely on staff for everything.

The above is my slightly tired, soda-withdrawn brain trying to comprehensively function and work on a difficult topic.

 

[CRACKPOTATOE]

I will be honest with you - I agree. War did exist in Medieval times, and it should exist as part of Roleplay on MassiveCraft. That said, the mere concept that a single faction could wage war on a vast empire and win simply because skill alone (which is by no means accurate to the real world) seems overpowered in favor of pvpers. I think the following idea by Waminer has great merit in that department in that no longer would pvpers be able to simply waltz into an enemy base and wipe out 100+ players.



Do you agree with the idea, Crackpotatoe?

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It's a good idea however, it takes away the freedom to declare fight if you know what I mean. Most of the time in wars the players don't fight eachothre very often or only in very small numbers. Having a cost attached to war could potentially be abused.

If it rises over time people can just declare war on a faction and those factions will slowly be drained of money. It would be abused as a way of attrition, even when no fighting is taking place.

 

[Mecharic]

It's a good idea however, it takes away the freedom to declare fight if you know what I mean. Most of the time in wars the players don't fight eachothre very often or only in very small numbers. Having a cost attached to war could potentially be abused.

If it rises over time people can just declare war on a faction and those factions will slowly be drained of money. It would be abused as a way of attrition, even when no fighting is taking place.

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What about when combined with the "Must accept surrenders" rule? Meaning that if the other faction surrenders they can't be enemies anymore, so the drain would disappear?

 

[Hirazrador]

That said, the idea is similar to the "Pacifist" feature I proposed as an addition to Factions, which can be gained by meeting some requirements and applying for it.

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I agree that sounds like a great idea!

 

[CRACKPOTATOE]

What about when combined with the "Must accept surrenders" rule? Meaning that if the other faction surrenders they can't be enemies anymore, so the drain would disappear?

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No because, say there is a very powerful faction that doesn not have huge amounts of money and it's fighting a weaker faction that has a considerably bigger amount. After a while, the powerful faction who is winning all the battles will have to eventually use the surrender terms, thus losing.

That wouldn't make any sense seeing as the powerful faction won every battle but then has to surrender due to low funds.

 

[Mecharic]

No because, say there is a very powerful faction that doesn not have huge amounts of money and it's fighting a weaker faction that has a considerably bigger amount. After a while, the powerful faction who is winning all the battles will have to eventually use the surrender terms, thus losing.

That wouldn't make any sense seeing as the powerful faction won every battle but then has to surrender due to low funds.

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But in reality it does make sense - just because you win the battle doesn't mean you can afford the war, to abuse an old saying. For example, when McMuffin's Ghiscari attacked Hisoka (back when the faction existed and had over 90 members) each day he waged war would have cost him around 15-20 silver, which would be a major deciding factor in which side won. It doesn't make sense for a finatially poor and population slim nation to be victorious over a nation with a vast population and large treasury. That's why the US couldn't possibly beat China, even if we have a *better* military then they do. So why would that be different in MassiveCraft? (I am honestly trying to convince you, so if you think I am arguing for the sake of arguing I am not.)

 

[Kapry]

It doesn't make sense for a finatially poor and population slim nation to be victorious over a nation with a vast population and large treasury. That's why the US couldn't possibly beat China, even if we have a *better* military then they do.

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I don't think I understand your argument right here.
If the US would have better military and would win every battle, wouldn't they pillage China then and get China's treasury? How would China in this scenario fight back? Throwing with gold bars?
Every soldier China loses, because of weaker equipment they would also lose money. If you would like to have in on massivecraft how it is in real life, you would have to add the costs of a lost soldier too. Meaning, if one of your faction members gets killed, it will cost the faction some money.

 

[Mecharic]

I don't think I understand your argument right here.
If the US would have better military and would win every battle, wouldn't they pillage China then and get China's treasury? How would China in this scenario fight back? Throwing with gold bars?
Every soldier China loses, because of weaker equipment they would also lose money. If you would like to have in on massivecraft how it is in real life, you would have to add the costs of a lost soldier too. Meaning, if one of your faction members gets killed, it will cost the faction some money.

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Since we already lose power I don't see why that would be a good addition as well. Money to retrain the new soldier and all that. It would definitely bring an end to the endless respawn cycle that most wars consist of. An why China would win is because they have 1 billion people to supply their military while the US has around 1/3 of that. Even with somewhat less advanced weapons (like using a diamond sword and iron armor v/s an enchanted diamond sword and diamond armor) their vast population would be able to overwhelm us - 100 machine guns will outrank 10 Marines or Navy Seals, even if the Marines/Navy Seals are better soldiers. Numbers hold a definite power in the world, and are also a definite liability. Here's the idea, including all the suggestions made to it:

Tax for every 5 enemy players.
Tribute increases per number of players in a faction.
Money and Power lost every time a player is killed by another player (not mobs or accidents).

Does that seem reasonable?

 

[Cruallassar]

Since we already lose power I don't see why that would be a good addition as well. Money to retrain the new soldier and all that. It would definitely bring an end to the endless respawn cycle that most wars consist of. An why China would win is because they have 1 billion people to supply their military while the US has around 1/3 of that. Even with somewhat less advanced weapons (like using a diamond sword and iron armor v/s an enchanted diamond sword and diamond armor) their vast population would be able to overwhelm us - 100 machine guns will outrank 10 Marines or Navy Seals, even if the Marines/Navy Seals are better soldiers. Numbers hold a definite power in the world, and are also a definite liability. Here's the idea, including all the suggestions made to it:

Tax for every 5 enemy players.
Tribute increases per number of players in a faction.
Money and Power lost every time a player is killed by another player (not mobs or accidents).

Does that seem reasonable?

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Two words: Ariel Bombing.

And I am just against taxes on factions. There are enough issues in many cases with money as things are.

 

[Mecharic]

And I am just against taxes on factions. There are enough issues in many cases with money as things are.

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Awww... so much for my devious triple layered plan to take over the server...

Fair 'nuff. Taxes would add an interesting dynamic but aren't all that vital. As said before, I don't mind the game mechanics as they are now, just the attitudes both sides have for each other.

 

[Cruallassar]

Awww... so much for my devious triple layered plan to take over the server...

Fair 'nuff. Taxes would add an interesting dynamic but aren't all that vital. As said before, I don't mind the game mechanics as they are now, just the attitudes both sides have for each other.

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Yes...you have been wanting to implement your own faction taxes for a while now, you just wanted to see if the rest of the server would go along with your evil plan, didn't you? Don't worry, my evil plan is much more complex...>

 

[Mecharic]

Yes...you have been wanting to implement your own faction taxes for a while now, you just wanted to see if the rest of the server would go along with your evil plan, didn't you? Don't worry, my evil plan is much more complex...>

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Oh taxes was just step 2 you see...

Step 1) Get people to like me.
Step 2) Implement Taxes
Step 3) Give out loans to cover taxes.
Step 4) MASSIVEVERSAL DOMINATION!
Step 5) Gloat >

 

[Cruallassar]

Oh taxes was just step 2 you see...

Step 1) Get people to like me.
Step 2) Implement Taxes
Step 3) Give out loans to cover taxes.
Step 4) MASSIVEVERSAL DOMINATION!
Step 5) Gloat >

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Mwahahahaha!! We foiled your plans! Now you must come up with a new master plan of the century...but only your part of the century, my part will have my master plan, Mwahaha!!

 

[BenRekt]

I don't think I understand your argument right here.
If the US would have better military and would win every battle, wouldn't they pillage China then and get China's treasury? How would China in this scenario fight back? Throwing with gold bars?
Every soldier China loses, because of weaker equipment they would also lose money. If you would like to have in on massivecraft how it is in real life, you would have to add the costs of a lost soldier too. Meaning, if one of your faction members gets killed, it will cost the faction some money.

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They also make up for what is it? 1/8 of the WORLD. So even though they have crappy gear, they could pretty much obliterate America whenever they want.

 

[Cruallassar]

They also make up for what is it? 1/8 of the WORLD. So even though they have crappy gear, they could pretty much obliterate America whenever they want.

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Not really. Yes, numbers do count, but not against a good tactician. If I were commanding American forces against China, I would make sure to have a sizable saturation bombing ability. Not for use against cities, but to thin the sizable numerical advantage of China. After that, it would depend, I don't actually know what we have and what they have, but the point remains, there are many tactics one can use to offset enemy numbers. Making sure you have advantage of the terrain, for example. Numbers only do so much. Look at every zombie, halo, and other game where some enemy has vast numbers.

 

[Jett57]

In short we need Valyria and Imperials again. As a short note this may or not be applicable, I'm to lazy to read everything.

 

[Joshy54100]

In short we need Valyria and Imperials again. As a short note this may or not be applicable, I'm to lazy to read everything.

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We need a war that includes many PvP juggernaut factions, such as Alamut, InVictus, Chronikatr (?), Valorian/Magnanimus P ), 9thLegion, Nargothrond, and I guess IronLegion. That would be epic!

 

[Magivore]

In that scenario both factions should have to pay for the hostile status, because a war is never comfortable for one side. This would also lead to more surrendering factions, as some factions might not wish to get drained by the war and then make a one time payment to end it.

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๖ۣۜThen again, if you do note, both factions really pay for fighting. I might be a Non-Premium, but I certainly have had a good share of killing a Premium with an axe or robbing their weapon and smacking them in return with it. Once you attack that premium, their god armour will suffer from it, as well as their faction power, let alone if you are smart, once you nab the weapon you could just turn and haul @$$ to a chest or /bp it, just stealing a very powerful weapon or a decent one. Both sides lose something all the time, either from 5$ worth of dirt, cobblestone, and stone tools, or 25$ of god armour and weapons.

I'm bad at both Pvp and Rp -w-

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๖ۣۜAnd, I've noted this a lot, you really don't need to even be that good to do both and succeed. I wasn't a brilliant RPer when I first joined Massive, but I still managed to stay afloat. Let alone, I'm actually aiming to find a Darkroom not only so I can gain silver for revenge on MrsBaver for killing me and having steal my loot or having others steal my loot Premium perks, as Premium benefits both RP and PVP.
๖ۣۜWays it can benefit?

• Die in spawn? People steal your stuff? Pppp, Premium. Don't lose anything to noobs that scratch up anything you drop.
• Baver and the undead? No worries! Armour should do the trick!
• Die in Wilderness whilst AFK? Lost nothing, my friend!
• PVPers find you? Aha, you can finally stand up to them, and be the one that kills them instead of them killing you.

๖ۣۜDarkroom advantages;

• Lost your armour by an axe in two shots? Well, take that shiny axe as 'justified debt'.
• Out of moola for shops or food because of too much time in RP? No worries, kill a few mobs, you could gain some nice things off them, as well as tons of silver.
• Strategy? Sure! If you are really clever, you can develop good ideas not just used for the Darkroom, but for PVP as well. Sound far-fetched? Jumping and hitting a mob increases chance of a 'Vanilla Critical' which is normal MC traits, not a plugin. It basically can do about 40% more damage if I am correct. You can leap like a mad-man during PVP to not only avoid a crapload of damage, but also deal MORE to the opposing side.

๖ۣۜThese here are some pretty helpful ideas to new PVPers, bothered RPers, or just new players in general!
๖ۣۜPardon if I hopped off topic a bit, but these ideas could help contribute. After all, we might need the admins to help the players, but we don't want admins to do everything for the players. They don't have a lot of time on their hands, considering they most likely have jobs as well, or school, or are already working for the server, in that matter!
๖ۣۜAlthough I loved your idea, Mecharic, I personally think pacifist factions idea would have to be more than "Don't PVP for a week." more of a longer time, cause if you want to be peaceful, you really need to show it. Anyone can go without PVPing for a week, I know I have, but it takes true dedication to go a month without PVP. Even I can't do that very well. Let alone, I see a flaw.
Using an Enderpearl removes your "Pacifist" protection the moment you touch ground. If anyone in your faction happens to use an Enderpearl to travel, or in RP terms, it completely ruins the peaceful for everyone.
๖ۣۜI won't support the pacifist factions by dedication, as it seems too many flaws could occur, but I love some of the other ideas you tossed in.

 

[Joshy54100]

๖ۣۜThen again, if you do note, both factions really pay for fighting. I might be a Non-Premium, but I certainly have had a good share of killing a Premium with an axe or robbing their weapon and smacking them in return with it. Once you attack that premium, their god armour will suffer from it, as well as their faction power, let alone if you are smart, once you nab the weapon you could just turn and haul @$$ to a chest or /bp it, just stealing a very powerful weapon or a decent one. Both sides lose something all the time, either from 5$ worth of dirt, cobblestone, and stone tools, or 25$ of god armour and weapons.
๖ۣۜAnd, I've noted this a lot, you really don't need to even be that good to do both and succeed. I wasn't a brilliant RPer when I first joined Massive, but I still managed to stay afloat. Let alone, I'm actually aiming to find a Darkroom not only so I can gain silver for revenge on MrsBaver for killing me and having steal my loot or having others steal my loot Premium perks, as Premium benefits both RP and PVP.
๖ۣۜWays it can benefit?

• Die in spawn? People steal your stuff? Pppp, Premium. Don't lose anything to noobs that scratch up anything you drop.
• Baver and the undead? No worries! Armour should do the trick!
• Die in Wilderness whilst AFK? Lost nothing, my friend!
• PVPers find you? Aha, you can finally stand up to them, and be the one that kills them instead of them killing you.

๖ۣۜDarkroom advantages;

• Lost your armour by an axe in two shots? Well, take that shiny axe as 'justified debt'.
• Out of moola for shops or food because of too much time in RP? No worries, kill a few mobs, you could gain some nice things off them, as well as tons of silver.
• Strategy? Sure! If you are really clever, you can develop good ideas not just used for the Darkroom, but for PVP as well. Sound far-fetched? Jumping and hitting a mob increases chance of a 'Vanilla Critical' which is normal MC traits, not a plugin. It basically can do about 40% more damage if I am correct. You can leap like a mad-man during PVP to not only avoid a crapload of damage, but also deal MORE to the opposing side.

๖ۣۜThese here are some pretty helpful ideas to new PVPers, bothered RPers, or just new players in general!

๖ۣۜPardon if I hopped off topic a bit, but these ideas could help contribute. After all, we might need the admins to help the players, but we don't want admins to do everything for the players. They don't have a lot of time on their hands, considering they most likely have jobs as well, or school, or are already working for the server, in that matter!
๖ۣۜAlthough I loved your idea, Mecharic, I personally think pacifist factions idea would have to be more than "Don't PVP for a week." more of a longer time, cause if you want to be peaceful, you really need to show it. Anyone can go without PVPing for a week, I know I have, but it takes true dedication to go a month without PVP. Even I can't do that very well. Let alone, I see a flaw.
Using an Enderpearl removes your "Pacifist" protection the moment you touch ground. If anyone in your faction happens to use an Enderpearl to travel, or in RP terms, it completely ruins the peaceful for everyone.
๖ۣۜI won't support the pacifist factions by dedication, as it seems too many flaws could occur, but I love some of the other ideas you tossed in.

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