So, a short while back we did a poll on how to rework the proficiency system to get rid of some of the infancy issues that the system caused through time-based expansion and further complications caused by modifications and additions. The poll was a success, that's to say, 6 out of 10 respondents voted in favor, but in the end, the amount of negative attention was used as a pretext to reject the implementation. Some time was spent re-thinking the original plan, and we've come up with a new solution. Here are some of the major changes: Spoiler: Changelog Combat or Intellect Schools no longer exist for the Proficiency System. Schools like the Blackmark training, Viridian Knight School and the Regalian Admiralty Academy still exist, but going to these schools no longer costs or gives free proficiency points. All Schools have their learning time reduced from 10 to 4, and can be taken anywhere in life. This liberates a character's backstory from being a proficiency slave, to being something a player can dictate themselves without having to worry about whether the proficiency points made sense. Cultural Proficiencies were all removed from the system, allowing for more unique feeling specialization as well as actually making cultural investment an active thought instead of a barely recognized afterthought. Nobles no longer gain +1 extra language in their language pool on apps. All points are still capped at 60 max gain, but individual Proficiency investments are capped at 30 now (which Racial/Culture boosts can exceed). All Proficiencies have been grouped up to create larger category proficiency. The system loses some specific specialization, but gains in terms of broad creative usability. In the past, Judicial was something you could only apply sparsely, now that is grouped under Statesmanship Knowledge, so you get to use Judicial, but also Commerce, Banking, Diplomacy and Public Speaking. Body Shape (Muscularity) is now attached to the Proficiency system, meaning it flows out of the logic of spending years training and sculpting a physique, not just adding it as an afterthought. This should get rid of unrealistically muscular artists and the lack of definition between the higher-ranking combat characters by adding a new Body Shape category above Strongman. Body Fat is now a separate term, which can be anything the player likes because it is independent from any of the other proficiency or body stats. Just as it should be, because fat accumulation has more to do with dietary habits than which school someone went to. Some racial limitations on body build have been changed: Kathar are now capped at Ripped Drowdar are now capped at Ripped Avanthar are now capped at Muscular, but have their "always muscled" removed from their race Maraya are now capped at Ripped in anticipation of their rewrite Altalar, Cielothar, Isldar are now capped at Athletic Dwarf are now capped at Muscular Orc, Cro-Allar and Thar-Url are now capped at Musclegod Slizzar are now capped at Ripped but can Template shift to any of these categories Yanar are not capped with anything, and can ovalate to any of these categories Race Boosts and Culture boosts have been changed. Many of them remain the same, but some change: Sihai (ch'ien-ji) switched from Aether Knowledge to Eastern Knowledge Songaskia switched from Trapping to Throwing Weapons Heartland Ceardian Ailor switched from Blades to Admiral Knowledge Anglian gender limit removed and both now give Heavy Bow Combat Skill Claith (renamed to Ériunin for the upcoming rewrite) switched from History to Language Daendroque Ailor switched from sailing to Underworld Knowledge Etosian Ailor switched from Unionist Seminary to Pole Combat Skill Vladno Ailor switched from Commanding Speech to Metallurgy Cro Allar battle command removed, but allowed them to take on other weapon proficiencies Url Proficiency reset system removed from lore El-Maraya Whip and Acro changed to Statesman Knowledge and Historical Knowledge Ka-Maraya (in prep of race rewrite) given Rogue Skill Proficiency Half races have all been tinkered with a bit here and there Set up the infrastructure for Group Boosts and Cap break boosts as well as artifact boosts, but these are all not yet a thing, we just made sure that when we do implement them, that they have a place where they belong, and they won't complicate the system further. Rewrote a new easy to follow Five Step procedure on calculating Proficiencies as well as providing a few examples of how to write such Proficiency builds for your Character Application. Modified the Magic Rule for Proficiency Points. Generally speaking there will be the chance for more proficiency points at lower levels, and less at higher levels, but all points "lost" get put into Magical Knowledge, meaning they aren't actually lost at all. Much like the Magic rule above, Vampirism points are "lost" into Rogue Skill instead of just being deleted. The whole page went down from 17 A4 worth of text pages to 5 A4 worth of text pages that congests all the information to be much much simpler. Rewrote the categories for the specific proficiency categories, reducing the total amount of proficiency types from 94 to 36. Obviously, there are a couple of things that require reworking. Right now we have done this: Rewrote the https://wiki.massivecraft.com/Proficiency page Wrote up the Skill Categories for a basic understanding what each proficiency does Updated the Character Template https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/character-applications-template.54735/ Deleted the old Proficiency explanation pages There are some things that need to still be done: Rewriting all combat schools to detach them from the proficiency system and give them more personal appeal. Assume that all schools require 4 years of learning instead of 10 unless otherwise specified (for example the Viridian/Tyrian schools which do not allow anyone to leave ever). Rewrite sections of the Magic/Vampirism pages to cover the Proficiency changes. Rewrite the Race pages to cover some of the subsequent changes (notably in Body Shape) These "fixes" to pull everything in line will follow in the coming days as the Lore Staff hammer out the smaller modifications, but shouldn't be strictly necessary right now. None of them really cover any sort of roadblock to what players need to do from this point onward. Help! I'm a player, what should I do? As per last Proficiency implementation, we intend to do a full review reset. What this means is that in a moment, all character applications are going to be reset to "Rejected". Fear not though, this is not a permanent "lock and key" rejection. Rather, when the app is rejected, players will need to get it re-reviewed. While we are still rolling out the change, it is recommended that the players read the changes on the Wiki, it's certainly a lot less information to take in, and is all framed a lot simpler than the previous system. Secondly, perhaps consider how to change your character's proficiency. A lot of proficiency have changed, and notably the disappearance of cultural proficiency will affect everyone. Here is what you should do to get your app in re-review: Was your app being reviewed in the middle of this change? @tag the person who was reviewing your app after you've updated the points on the sheet based on the new proficiency system (as well as Body Shape) and ask them to re-review it. Was your app previously rejected before this change? Submit a completely new app. Was your app previously approved before this change? @tag the person who reviewed your application last to re-review it. If this person is no longer on staff, @tag any other Lore staff member to tag your thread as Review Needed. Please be sure to double check whether the person you are tagging is still staff by looking up if their name is still blue, and whether they still have the name banner. If they do not, please do not tag them.
My character is a Varran but not a fighter. Due to him having to be Athletic, do I HAVE to invest points into combat for him or will he just always have that musculature? EDIT: Does Magical knowledge include aberration knowledge?
it says Dwarves maximum physical stat body shape is muscular, muscular is described as "Mostly Lean Muscle" Dwarves aren't lean, am I being really silly or is my qualm warranted? I don't see why a dwarf couldn't be a strong man especially since, Dwarves are equal in weight to Ailor.
I love the new update, the only thing that I find a little odd is the vampire section for the most part. Whilst I like the idea of 'Rather than deleting all your points, they're put in more fitting areas for mages' The Vampire points seem to completely crush the need for the later staged power vampires. Varghuls no longer have valid combat points as do Varlords & even the mutations that stray below. I might be getting the wrong idea so if I am, I do apologize but that's all I feel is a little out of place from first glance.
https://wiki.massivecraft.com/Proficiency#Character_Applications Every year that your character lives = +1 Proficiency point that you can used. It's capped at 60. You cannot exceed 30 points for individual proficiencies, but boosts can make it go over the cap. Do individual points first, check for boosts, add it in. Then calculate the body stats of your character, which is simple math explained in the fifth step and https://wiki.massivecraft.com/Proficiency#Body_Shape_.26_Body_Fat
Varran are min capped at Athletic and Max capped at Muscular. Magical Knowledge includes Aberration knowledge, as you can read on the informational pages.
Lean muscle is not lean fat. Fat and muscle are two different things. Dwarves aren't really proportional, they are chunky. Body Shapes don't really apply strictly to them because of how weird their proportions are, a muscular Dwarf with moderate fat is the same as a strongman human.
Aside from the 10 Mutators they get? I'd say it's pretty well balanced, being a big ogre were-bat. Who needs combat skills at that point anyway?
So my character is a 20 year old Cielothar and is mainly medical so would these be his profs +10 Medical Sciences (+10 from Points) +10 Alchemy Science (+10 from Points) +20 Nature Care Sciences (+20 from Race Bonus)
I'm sorry. I can't make it any simpler than it is written. If you've successfully made a character application in the past, then you must be doing something specifically wrong, because we only eliminated steps, not added any (aside from the body build). You'll need to tell me what you specifically fail to understand for me to know how to help.
So, from a brief read, it appears that Dwarves retain their +20 racial bonus towards metallurgy, aye? and with schools gone, it *should* still be possible for a Dwarf to get to +50 mettalurgy, if they put +30 points in, and use their +20 bonus to go beyond? Just asking for a bit of clarification. Looks excellent though, much easier to read it all, thanks for the hard work!
Yes, this would work as you hypothesized. They are the only race that can reach 50 Metallurgy (Orcs could reach 40, but not that high)
Surely it's a little excessive in the case of non-power tree vampires, though? Those aren't typically very combat oriented anyway, but still, 10 or so points so that you aren't completely screwed in the case of combat might be a welcome addition. I do realize that Shadow Flight is a thing and all, though.
I disagree. A stealth theme vampire should be just that, a stealth theme vampire. All vampires gain excessive bonuses up the rear end in terms of utility, and with the mass-capped 60 points in Rogue Training they are essentially invisible while sneaking, un-ironically 100 pickpocket Skyrim steal-the-guard's-clothes-while-he-watches-you kind of stuff. If anything, this system gave those high level Vampires huge bonuses, even if it took their creative mutability away. I'd say that mutability was mary-sue anyway, it resulted in a lot of anger calling Vampires OP in the past. Consider it a nerf in one end, and a boost in another.
Read the Arts Proficiency explanations. It's specifically written under Literature, modeled after the Shakespeare principles.
Apologies, that was a mistake on my part. I was under the impression that Rogue Points was simply a new term for "Vampire Points". Consider my criticism nullified.
+10 Medical Sciences (+10 from Points) +5 Alchemy Sciences (+5 from Points) +20 Nature Care Science (+20 from Race Bonus) +5 Athletic Training (+5 from Points) So if he only has 5 athletic training do 5x2 which =10 and by that standard he’d be toned correct
Given that the proficiency pages now make two distinct classes of Maraya (El-Maraya and Ka-Maraya), what is the proper way to note the racial proficiency points for the time leading up to the rewrite? Do we select one that aligns with our character's personality or should we simply forego the racial bonuses until the time when the rework is posted? Also, are the Maraya still granted the full 60 age points?
Just noticed a small hiccup while looking through, thought I'd point it out so people don't get confused. It's regarding the muscle cap, I think Drow got put in the wrong category. "Capped at Muscular: Dwarf, Avanthar, Drowdar, Varran"
Are school bonuses not being used anymore since it's not mentioned anywhere on the Proficiency page? Like in the rework for the combat schools, will the skill bonuses be removed?
Its the exact same system but with Body Shape theres some really simple math that it lays out for you so you dont even have to do any work bar plugging numbers in.
So am I correct in thinking that fully-mutated vampires are now limited to a body build such as skinny, assuming they're not a race like Varran which is locked at a minimum of Athletic? I'm overall a little confused about how that works, if no points are put into the physical stat.
Note: Yanar are completely immune to all Physical Stat calculations. So on an app, a Yanar character would not put the Physical Stat number, just the Body Shape and Fat?
You forgot to add the race/culture boost. Be sure to follow the simple 5 step procedure outlined on the wiki!
decided to redo my post from before as I elaborate more and go into more detail as to why I dislike the current system for vampires. I feel like maxing out vampires points does create a problem in that you can't have knowledge based proficiency. if I want my vampire to know how to paint but they're a varlord, they can't because they're maxed out on points. If I want a strong leader vampire who is full on guile tree, I can't because I've maxed out on points. ect ect. Overall this new system vampires are buffed in one way and nerfed in another BUT the update limits creativity for vampire players to one archetype and one archetype only. While this solves the issue of op vampires, it also will likely make vampire rp stale as you can only have one kind of character if you want more mutations and even then you're stuck in the assassin archetype. For example, a character I am working on in the old system had power tree up to vampire screech and had acrobatics and unarmed combat knowledge, basically making something like the hunter from left for dead. (Or more accurately the way that the vampire in let me in is portrayed when hunting) but now I can't see a way of doing that with her current mutations. She'd only have 8 points to spend and that wouldn't really give much in the way of being good in unarmed combat and acrobatics, only sneaking. Perhaps in a way this is more a hindrance in the way the vampire mutations are laid out as for her, I primarily need claw lust and screech. Either way I can see this being applied to other vampire archetypes as well. For example, if I wanted to make a varlord who was a strong leader, I'd want to put points into Statesmen knowledge, but that is completely impossible now. Or if I want an artsy guile vampire I can't have many mutations or I can't have art proficiency's. To summarize, the new system greatly limits what one can do from a character design standpoint. I can agree that proficiency's don't make a character, but if a character fits into an archetype, they need to be able to do the things that go with that archetype at a competent level. That just starts to become more and more impossible with this update when it comes to vampires.
So I just realized that I made a massive oversight. When V2 was being made, I went off the assumption that all forms of 10-step skill stuff has the same rate loss, but I forgot that Vampires only lose half their proficiency points, not all of them like mages. I've modified the system now to reduce the point loss by a third, meaning Vampires with 10 Mutations have 20 proficiency points left.
Since last system it was floating around from lore answers that apparently Qadir could see through up to +20 Forgery, is it now that they can see through a certain Rogue Training proficiency, or is it that they should have a Perception Training boost (which would make more sense lore-wise because of their Meticulous Precision racial lore trait and having Qadir not really oriented towards sneaking, stealth, camouflage, or anything other than lockpicking), or neither?
