Pending Review Problems With Essa Claiming Rules

Discussion in 'Factions' started by Aeyris, Dec 27, 2020.

  1. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    Hi,

    So the single claiming rule in Essa: there are some benefits to this but the unintended consequences make it hard for small factions to offer a great faction experience.

    1) It makes it hard for small factions to offer diverse and/or multiple bases.
    2) All the good space for large towns has been picked over. But having many smaller bases is illegal despite that the claim footprint is often much less.
    3) Significantly favors large factions who can make large claims.
    4) We only have two worlds. This rule would make more sense if we have, say 6 worlds.
    5) Having more bases has always made factions more vibrant. It means more outposts and pvp bases rather than what tend to be largely empty cities.
    6) Spider claims are already illegal. This solves most of the problems that the single claim rule attempts to solve.

    It is a broad-based rule that has annoying effects on a small group of factions. The enforcement of this rule is odd, too. It isn't in ./rules and isn't prevented by the claiming feature in the faction plugin. I suggest for now we make an exception for hubs and small towns until we look at this closer.
     
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    #1 Aeyris, Dec 27, 2020
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
  2. Ndfeb

    Ndfeb CEO of Lyrah

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    idk man it would make too much sense to put rules on the rules page they need some wiggle room to mess with people
     
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  3. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    This was rule was only announced in the release post, 4 months ago.
     
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  4. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    Not to mention most people have alts. Like someone could have 5 alt factions that take up huge amounts of disparate space. But a single faction with active players would be unable to have a separate hub and town.

    This would actually help solve that because it would result in fewer shell factions.

    And to lyrah's case with our hub, we will end up claiming it with an alt faction, but just using it less. Do you see how this is problematic?
     
  5. PumpQueenEllie

    PumpQueenEllie CEO of Lyrah

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    I know certain alt factions that take up an entire nice biome, with nothing on the surface, yet others who simply want to make actual, nice creative builds have to cram them all into one solid claim. What if someone wishes to have two small towns with different themes? Why can't they do that, but alt facs can be everywhere??
     
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  6. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    Perhaps we also look at changing claim near to 5 chunks like it was in the past :)
     
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  7. Chalsie

    Chalsie Supremium

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    So the single claiming rule in Essa: there are some benefits to this but the unintended consequences make it hard for small factions to offer a great faction experience.

    1) It makes it hard for small factions to offer diverse and/or multiple bases.

    --It's already hard for small factions to offer multiple bases because they have less claim power to begin with. I'm confused by this reasoning. As far as the difficulty of diversity...I think that is hard no matter what and making or breaking that issue has less to do with being able to have multiple claims and more to do with being a good builder that utilizes space well. If we want diversity, it's more factions we need to make room for, not multiple claims.

    2) All the good space for large towns has been picked over. But having many smaller bases is illegal despite that the claim footprint is often much less.

    --This is just math and is wrong. Having multiple claims causes extensive claim near issues and reduces the area other factions have to claim and just exacerbates the issue. Also, by your reasoning, if people aren't happy with all the good spaces gone then how do multiple claims which take more space give all factions more space? I'd like new factions that are cropping up every day to continue to have space to claim. I personally like that going forward we may stick to the single claim per new world rule. It definitely shows a consideration for those who are claiming after us. I'd also like taxes turned on for this reason and alts to add no claim power to a faction and for outposts to cost regals if we're talking about claiming being fair but that's another can of worms.

    3) Significantly favors large factions who can make large claims.

    --Well they are recruiting and getting more claim power are they not? I'm confused as to why you consider it unfair. The rule exists in Essa so all factions there are supposed to be adhering to that rule because the world is a quarter of the size of Essalonia. Most of us didn't like that but understood why it was there. You should have been there when everyone was planning to have multiple claims there. Lumina was planning to go for 3. Did you ever see what Asteria looked like in Essalonia? You're forgetting that if that rule wasn't in place Essa would likely be even more crowded so that by the time you became active you would have had less of an area to choose from.

    4) We only have two worlds. This rule would make more sense if we have, say 6 worlds.

    --Again this is backwards. The rule makes sense as it stands for Essa imho and exactly because we only have 2 worlds. Less worlds = less claims.....

    5) Having more bases has always made factions more vibrant. It means more outposts and pvp bases rather than what tend to be largely empty cities.

    --I disagree. Having more factions makes things more vibrant. The current rule considers multiple factions over multiple claims. I prefer that. Don't forget you are opening the door to things like small one-chunk claims people make for "resource portals" which can also double as raid portals which are supposedly illegal but let's get real here there are a lot of those masquerading as something legal in Essalonia.

    6) Spider claims are already illegal. This solves most of the problems that the single claim rule attempts to solve.

    --This rule solves nothing. I was told by staff that they don't enforce it unless a ticket is made and someone complains about it. I don't know why the responsibility of this is solely placed on players but as you can imagine there is quite a bit of abuse and it is rare players want to step in to make a ticket or report it. I'm not sure why there can't be a staff member who checks on this kind of thing on a regular say monthly basis. Pop up dynmap and locate issues. In my opinion it is waaay more of a headache to deal with when you see claims like Asteria get out of control and have to be dealt with for months after it took 6 months to get that way.

    It is a broad-based rule that has annoying effects on a small group of factions. The enforcement of this rule is odd, too. It isn't in ./rules and isn't prevented by the claiming feature in the faction plugin. I suggest for now we make an exception for hubs and small towns until we look at this closer.

    --Finally one thing I agree with. Enforcement. Please update all rules in a timely manner on one cohesive page to avoid these kinds of misunderstandings. How long have we been asking for this? Whenever we have these drastic rule changes I just don't understand how this is being missed. The rule page is fine and is there just that the updates don't always get recorded. Make a checklist. Does this forum post have rule changes? If yes, update rule page. Aeyris, despite not agreeing with you on most of your points I'm still sorry you're having to go through these issues.

    Also I'm sorry but this large "aquarium" that you are fighting for isn't even a medieval build. Don't get me wrong, I really like that you want to have a friendly faction and invite everyone for fishing parties but I think you need to figure out a way to be creative that stays within server rules if I'm being completely honest.

    [​IMG]
     
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  8. Aeyris

    Aeyris ex-ceo of Lyrah

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    It has a door. Its not an aquariam, its a roof.

    It also has ramparts now, Karen.
     
  9. Ndfeb

    Ndfeb CEO of Lyrah

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    looks like a castle to me chief
     

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  10. Ndfeb

    Ndfeb CEO of Lyrah

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  11. Chalsie

    Chalsie Supremium

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    Lmao! Ok fine it's a castle then :p
     
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  12. Ndfeb

    Ndfeb CEO of Lyrah

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    i'm happy we could clear that up
     
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