Possibility Of Enabling Invisibility Potions

Should invisibility be enabled?

  • Yes

    Votes: 27 71.1%

  • No

    Votes: 8 21.1%

  • I really don't care about the scenario

    Votes: 3 7.9%
  • Total voters
    38
  • Poll closed .
Shaneski101

Shaneski101

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So, today I came upon a thought of asking myself, why exactly are invisibility potions disabled?

I couldn't come up with much insight after asking others, but the overall census that at the time of their release they were considered "overpowered".

I also thought of the possibility of other players thinking invisible players via drinking the potions may be mis-identified as staff and may cry out "ABUSE!" right away.

I will be discussing some benefits to each aspect of the server if invisibility was enabled, and why it proves more benefit than harm.
  1. Its not OP Lets start off with understanding that from a mechanical point of view, invisibility potions are not overpowered. Outside of PvP they provide almost no benefit other than to be invisible. Maybe you don't want a certain person seeing you loot an unclaimed base, so you go in as invisible, or maybe you want to prank a faction member or another faction and pretend to haunt them, I don't know what you kids like doing in your factions but really there's no case of it being broken to the fact that it has to be disabled. Think of your disabled list. Elytras(flying forever), TnT environment,( destroying bases) damage, Mending (armor repair without spending resources) Sweeping Edge (AOE damage) Absorption (bloated health, caused long stalled fights) and invisibility potions. Do you believe invisibility potions are within that category of Overpowered to be disabled? I personally believe not.
  2. PVP Benefits Before you shriek that would be insanely overpowered as some may think, contrary to that thought, it's not as overpowered as you may think. I see a few fun things you can do with invisibility potions. First off, most of you are aware that if you wear armor, your armor is still visible. So drinking an invisibility potion and fighting normally would proof no greater advantage, and it'd be broken if it didn't show your armor. However, it does. Here's where it can get fun. Say you're extremely outnumbered, you can run far enough and take off your armor. Now, you're risking a full set of god armor to escape as you are now fully invisible, but there are still ways you can be seen. Invisibility potions give off a grey particle effect as other potions do with different colors, so the one chasing the player, if he didn't lose sight, can simply look for particles in the air and realize where you are. Maybe not all players can spot the particles as easily as others, but the same can be said with anything in PVP. Some players aren't good at potting, some aren't good with bows, some can't do other things, etc etc. The player using the invisibility potion is risking his armor, and it's not like he can turn around and just steam roll you to death. He is armor-less. a 1v1 with one having god armor on and the other with nothing but invisibility, 9/10 times if you're not a squid you'd probably beat the invisibility guy. A god axe and god sword with strength 2 almost 2 shots a non-armored player, so the invisible player has to have an insane amount of strafing skill WHILE having his particles shown in order to defeat the armored player. The armored player simply has to swing in any direction or spot the particles to identify where the invisible player is, and once again, the invisible player is risking more than just his weapon now.
  3. Roleplay and PVE Benefits My next topic is how could it be fun to use in PVE and Roleplay? Well for starters, I do not roleplay and i won't pretend to know how to roleplay. However, magic is canon within Aloria, and invisibility is a part of magic. A player can use an invisibility potion to improve the quality of his or her roleplay and their character. Maybe they are an alchemist or a crazy mage, and they are cornered by guards or by other players, as a last act they use the invisibility potion. This is also a way for non roleplayers to go and watch and spectate roleplayers. My skin is a polar bear in a bikini. If i go into the tavern with that, its more than likely going to upset and tarnish someones roleplay experience, however if the invisibility potion was enabled I could watch from the sidelines with no interruption for the roleplayers, they will not see me or a polar bear. This can allow those who have non serious skins to be able to watch roleplay within serious situations, kinda like spectating the roleplay. Of course you can argue that the invisible person can disrupt the roleplay via local chat, but staff does not have to see you physically to be able to warn you or jail you, all they gotta do is see the messages that you are saying. Either way invisible or not, if you're disrupting you'll get in trouble. Now, in PVE it can be a benefit to be ignored by certain mobs, maybe you're mining in a dark cave and mobs keep attacking you. Drink that sucker and next thing you know you can mine peacefully. As i said earlier, you can use invisibility potions while looting bases, looking for a claim, or any other PVE aspect to prevent turning it into a PVP aspect. It also allows us to use the material that's needed to brew it properly, and another potion for us to brew.
These are just my thoughts on what would be highly beneficial of enabling invisibility. Thank you for reading.

@Tokuu @Sephite @hardname12 @Winterless @Viscar @Maytee @MyCatBubbles @Genecide65 @MazzerDK @MonMarty
@Wooperr
 
I don't know why these were ever disabled unless it was to help prevent client users from using them to try to make punishing them harder.

I don't think invisibility is op, and I would love to start seeing it used again, and would love to use it myself.


+1
 
Last time I saw this mentioned staff said that invisibility wasn't disabled due to pvp, but because invisible players couldn't be logged with hawkeye, or something? Something like that. It was more a technical issue rather than gameplay. Though, that was a while ago and it may have changed.
 
MorgothTheDark said:
I don't know why these were ever disabled unless it was to help prevent client users from using them to try to make punishing them harder.

I don't think invisibility is op, and I would love to start seeing it used again, and would love to use it myself.


+1
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I can see why they disabled it to stop client users from being spotted, but their swinging movements by their axe and armor are still visible, and if a hacker is playing with no armor on to be fully invisible, then well he doesn't really have an advantage and he played himself
 
I'd be for having this back.

In terms of RP, the only benefits would be for mages that can use shadow melding or whatever it's called. And I suppose spectating OOC is another benefit, so long as they aren't spying against player wishes.

But yeah, I think there was a reason why this wasn't enabled.
 
Look...As someone who made a thread about this two years ago: I like the idea, I really do.
Link to the thread I made: https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/re-enable-invisibility-potions.38158/#post-436403

So basically one reason for not implementing it: Security reasons...I'm pretty sure what I had said at the time(regarding log-on invisibility) was later fixed in a later MC patch/update. Whether these security concerns still apply, well...I'd think they do.
 
It's hard enough to encourage players to play in the faction worlds; the possibility of invisible raiders will only turn away more people. I don't think it's worth it, it doesn't fit medieval MassiveCraft.
 
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The_Western_Fox said:
Like what OP said, to do that they need to get rid of all armor, making them extremely weak to any attacks from a god weapon.
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Fighting while completely invisible clearly isn't viable. The problem is that raiders will use invisibility to breach buildings and snoop through places undetected, no one should have to worry about threats that can't be seen.
 
The_Western_Fox said:
Here's what I see.

If someone gets killed by someone invisible, they can tell there guild about a raid, and the guild can: Get into gear, or wait.
If raiders want to attack with god weapons, that shows them because what's more of a giveaway than a floating sword/axe.
There's perks that covers most harming splash potions, so unless they only use instant harming ones, or are using bows, there's almost nothing they can do to attack without being caught eventually.

Tl;Dr The only weapons people can use invisible are ranged ones like bows and splash potions.
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That's not how fights work on MassiveCraft... you can still run around w/o any armor or items in your hand to be fully invisible and then toss the armor on and whip out your weapon once you're inside the area you're trying to breach. (You'd just follow a player through a door, trapdoor, etc. and they'd never know you were there).
 
The_Western_Fox said:
Ok, but people can still make texture packs and change the particle color to something obvious like a neon color. Only thing I see changing if invisible potions are enabled is people changing/making texture packs to make the particles more visible.
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Seems like a lot of work to put on the community for a change that has more cons than pros.
 
Yes pls for invis raiding

Invis should be removed on entering combat to fix the issues with hackers/rule breakers or whatever, I think, but that shouldn't be at all difficult to code.
 
Maytee said:
That's not how fights work on MassiveCraft... you can still run around w/o any armor or items in your hand to be fully invisible and then toss the armor on and whip out your weapon once you're inside the area you're trying to breach. (You'd just follow a player through a door, trapdoor, etc. and they'd never know you were there).
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Remember during this you're giving off particles that can be seen, and I think most aspects of minecraft aren't fit for medieval times. I also believe that if it a raid is to happen, having the person be invisible or not is not going to dictate the survival of that player that drastically. Your intentions is to raid them, whether your invisible or not that first kill on the player probably wont have them seeing it coming. Also, particles, that is a clear cut sign someone is invisible in front of you, you will see the particles and that gives players without god armor an advantage. If they can spot the particles the can quickly finish the kill before the player can quickly re-armor themselves, its anyones race. The raider is taking a risk not to be seen.
 
Maytee said:
Fighting while completely invisible clearly isn't viable. The problem is that raiders will use invisibility to breach buildings and snoop through places undetected, no one should have to worry about threats that can't be seen.
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But why? whats wrong with giving players an opportunity to use stealth? the players being attacked can invis right back, and snoop around other bases. Toggle sneak is basically a safer version of the invisibility potion.
 
65jes89 said:
Yes pls for invis raiding

Invis should be removed on entering combat to fix the issues with hackers/rule breakers or whatever, I think, but that shouldn't be at all difficult to code.
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Yep, basically a more mobile toggle sneak, and allows you to be more sneaky. I wish I understood more about how invisibility messes with the security of the server.
 
Um strength 2 and unarmed at 1k not good enough reason? Like you can't rly fight that...
 
I like the idea

It's definitely not as overpowered as the other things Shane mentioned in the original post

Although I have to agree with Jes that this would really only make sense if you were automatically turned visible in pvp much like losing trait effects
 
Maytee said:
That's not how fights work on MassiveCraft... you can still run around w/o any armor or items in your hand to be fully invisible and then toss the armor on and whip out your weapon once you're inside the area you're trying to breach. (You'd just follow a player through a door, trapdoor, etc. and they'd never know you were there).
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1. Sprint particles
2. Invis particles
3. Inventory lag
4. I don't see that as a big deal if it stops people running inside during a raid tbh
 
Maytee said:
It's hard enough to encourage players to play in the faction worlds; the possibility of invisible raiders will only turn away more people. I don't think it's worth it, it doesn't fit medieval MassiveCraft.
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Pretty sure most people want it disabled in pvp fam

A lot of things don't fit "medieval massivecraft." See: the entirety of regalia, your faction and its arostocrats, magic, potions, enderpearls, diamond armour, everyone using axes/swords, half the bases on the server, redstone machines (including the lag machines under your f home), time travelling, portals, people speaking in modern english, insani's submarine, cannons EVERYWHERE, and let's not forget the abomination that is combat RP and the combat schools in lore. Bad point
 
honestly, because of the fact that u need to take off all armor when you have invis I think its PvP balanced. Although maybe nerfing the time of it would be nice, due to the fact that easily going invis all day everyday isn't appealing
 
Winterless said:
1. Sprint particles
2. Invis particles
3. Inventory lag
4. I don't see that as a big deal if it stops people running inside during a raid tbh
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Winterless said:
Disguise does exactly the same thing bud
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Winterless said:
Pretty sure most people want it disabled in pvp fam

A lot of things don't fit "medieval massivecraft." See: the entirety of regalia, your faction and its arostocrats, magic, potions, enderpearls, diamond armour, everyone using axes/swords, half the bases on the server, redstone machines (including the lag machines under your f home), time travelling, portals, people speaking in modern english, insani's submarine, cannons EVERYWHERE, and let's not forget the abomination that is combat RP and the combat schools in lore. Bad point
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Instead of derailing this thread with pointless spammed insults maybe you could construct your argument this...
  • Not everyone has particles enabled; especially PvP'ers as most I know have them disabled to gain more FPS.
  • When disguised you can be seen- you can't while completely invisible.
  • Obviously, invisibility should be disabled when combat-tagged.
 
Maytee said:
Instead of derailing this thread with pointless spammed insults maybe you could construct your argument this...
  • Not everyone has particles enabled; especially PvP'ers as most I know have them disabled to gain more FPS.
  • When disguised you can be seen- you can't while completely invisible.
  • Obviously, invisibility should be disabled when combat-tagged.
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Pointless insults? What a way to deflect

1. People having particles disabled is player choice. That's like saying "Lower server render distance because my computer is too bad to run above 3 chunks and it's an unfair advantage so everyone has to be on my level of blindness."
Again, bad point. Pretty sure you used that semi-colon wrong too but eh
2. When disguised you are near impossible to be seen if you play your cards right, exactly like invisibility.
3. Duh.
 
Zacatero said:
Irrelevant.


Since its combat tagged, as are disguises, i dont think this is a big issue
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In no way are particles irrelevant, they're the only way to see people that are invisible. Simply combat-tagging invisibility doesn't fix the issue that you cannot see players with invisibility at all without enabling particles while you can still see disguised players as mobs.
 
Maytee said:
In no way are particles irrelevant, they're the only way to see people that are invisible. Simply combat-tagging invisibility doesn't fix the issue that you cannot see players with invisibility at all without enabling particles while you can still see disguised players as mobs.
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mhm, and if you turn your render distance down real low you probably can't see disguised players either.

Sorry that you think an almost unnoticeable FPS boost that only applies in certain situations is more important than an opportunity to add more playstyles to Massive :/
 
Winterless said:
mhm, and if you turn your render distance down real low you probably can't see disguised players either.

Sorry that you think an almost unnoticeable FPS boost that only applies in certain situations is more important than an opportunity to add more playstyles to Massive :/
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You can see rabbits from 3 chunks away, but you can't see gray particles from that far.

Here is why I think invisibility should not be enabled.
Maytee said:
Fighting while completely invisible clearly isn't viable. The problem is that raiders will use invisibility to breach buildings and snoop through places undetected, no one should have to worry about threats that can't be seen.
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Maytee said:
In no way are particles irrelevant, they're the only way to see people that are invisible. Simply combat-tagging invisibility doesn't fix the issue that you cannot see players with invisibility at all without enabling particles while you can still see disguised players as mobs.
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There is a solution that allows you to see if players are invisible. PVPers choose to not use this solution. You chose not to use a feature, so you, in turn, chose not to be able to do any of the things that the feature allows you to do. If you choose to have particles off, you are choosing to live with that situation. You cant pick and choose and say that ideas are bad because of a reason that is not only optional, but willingly disabled

Therefore, the reasoning that because PVPers wont be able to do something, is irrelevant.
 
Maytee said:
You can see rabbits from 3 chunks away, but you can't see gray particles from that far.

Here is why I think invisibility should not be enabled.
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Depends on the texture pack and the level of fog fam

Do you see why this is an endless problem? How does Invisibility let you breach a building? Following someone in? hard to do with particles, that you willingly disable. That is your fault. Not the server's, not the invisible person's.
 
Zacatero said:
There is a solution that allows you to see if players are invisible. PVPers choose to not use this solution. You chose not to use a feature, so you, in turn, chose not to be able to do any of the things that the feature allows you to do. If you choose to have particles off, you are choosing to live with that situation. You cant pick and choose and say that ideas are bad because of a reason that is not only optional, but willingly disabled

Therefore, the reasoning that because PVPers wont be able to do something, is irrelevant.
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Maytee said:
You can see rabbits from 3 chunks away, but you can't see gray particles from that far.
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It's not about being able to enable/disable particles it's about being able to see your target. How can you argue that a black bunny running across an open field is harder to see than a few gray potion particles that won't even render after a few chunks?
 
Winterless said:
Depends on the texture pack and the level of fog fam

Do you see why this is an endless problem? How does Invisibility let you breach a building? Following someone in? hard to do with particles, that you willingly disable. That is your fault. Not the server's, not the invisible person's.
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Texture packs only change the way particles look, not the way they render. Fog has no effect on potion particles whatsoever.
 
Maytee said:
It's not about being able to enable/disable particles it's about being able to see your target. How can you argue that a black bunny running across an open field is harder to see than a few gray potion particles that won't even render after a few chunks?
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Thats a bit over exaggerated. I mean if i saw a bunny from 3 chunks away and it was a sneaking disguised player, i wouldnt know it was a person! I would shoot it about just as much as i would shoot randomly in the air. Either way, the disguised person or the invisible person would be completely visible upon attacking or being attacked
 
Maytee said:
Texture packs only change the way particles look, not the way they render. Fog has no effect on potion particles whatsoever.
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Never said it did, I said fog had an effect on how easily you could see rabbits.

Particles can look more or less obvious depending on what texture they have. Particles in my packs are usually real obvious to tell if someone's pre-potted and trying to jump me
 
Maytee said:
It's not about being able to enable/disable particles it's about being able to see your target. How can you argue that a black bunny running across an open field is harder to see than a few gray potion particles that won't even render after a few chunks?
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That wasn't your original point but ok

I could probably make myself hard to see as a black bunny pretty easily tbh, just hop along with the rest of the mobs and don't act obvious and it'll be pretty easy to blend in.

But you won't petition for THAT to be removed, cause you use it all the time to jump people, lmao
 

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