Poll: Proposed Proficiency System Modification

Should the proposed rework be implemented?


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    159
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I'm seeing that this system is now based upon character design and backstory and other factors rather than just winning everything with more points. So to Timiscs earlier statement about the 25 year old shitstain against the 50 year old veteran the veteran would win purely by his back story and constant training, not the gifted drunkard and socialite. Am I getting this right?
 
Rarely they do, but this just further says "We now allow you to break character." almost like Lore agrees to it. It would be further uncontrolled and a headache for Lore when twice the tickets roll in.
I think you're not understanding the point I was getting across, and certainly, if there is less rules on the page to do with math, we can put more text on the page to explain how to interpret the data in-game. Those who decide to vote no because they are stuck in the mindset of what old proficiency means in-game, show a lack of willingness to understand from my standpoint of view. The amount of tickets that currently roll in based on proficiency abuse is.. none. Absolutely none at all. The only tickets of powergaming or god-rp is from people who don't have proficiency points because they don't have apps. Overly cynical views shouldn't get in the way of progress imo - this system entirely wipes out the capacity for mary sue's and min-maxed character points for maximizing win-rp, and those who vote no without elaborating beyond that stance I've made at the beginning, sort of leave me wondering why they are voting no if they don't take the effort to explain.
 
Also, I know racial things aren't set in stone, but I think half-elves should get a proficiency boost from their elf parent, just like ailor get theirs from their parent. This applies to both the new and current system
 
Overly cynical views shouldn't get in the way of progress imo
Yet you just agreed with me that players do as they want anyway... I haven't voted cause I am not against change, I just find holes and weak points in this change. I agree tweaks to the current system need to happen, but this is only the first option and I'm sure there is more to be explored before deciding on the first suggestion.

  • Schools can still be lowered from 10 years to whatever to allow backstory to be better off.
  • I still think schools should be changed to techniques so that if someone wishes to have a tutor while they explore the world to build their character they can.
  • And perhaps do something like you need xyz points to be xyz body build to stop bookworms from being muscle bros.
There are far more options to be looked into.
 
I embrace this. It's simple and easy to learn and use and it deals away with a couple of problems the current system has, for example the fact that Vocal Music, Instrumental Music, etc. Weren't found in the same schools, but are now combined. I like the idea of the Renaissance man as the example of the combined proficiencies, because having an artist that's literally never touched anything but a paintbrush just seemed odd, and if you want that to be the case, no one forces you to play out more than the one child-proficiency you wanted for your char.
EDIT: Most important of all, it deals away with those pesky +1-5 that no one really knew meant. Does Bodycare +2 grant me the ability to brush my teeth or put on basic make-up? Big difference.
 
I was initially pretty skeptical (even voting no and typing a paragraph), but I've sort-of fallen into the idea that this is the right way to go. Stuff like treating Proficiencies as natural 'talents' that can go rusty might actually revive tutelage RP from the deep, deep grave it has right about now. I can only hope that every point is a big jump from the last, what with there being only 12 points to spend in each area.

There's always the issue of age, though. Perhaps there should be some age (12, 15, 18 to be excessive, etc.) where proficiency points are actually given? Along with a cap on what body builds can be gained w/ age, solely for the sake of preventing strongmen w/ +12 in heavy weapons who also happen to be five y/o.
 
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Mages are required to put at least 5 Base Stat in Intelligence Base Stat, and then also forced to put 6 Intelligence Proficiency Points into Magical Knowledge (which covers aberrations, arken, void/exist knowledge, planar knowledge etc.) This leaves them with 6 Intelligence Proficiency to spend elsewhere, and 1 more Base Stat to assign wherever they like. Inversely, all Mages, regardless of age, have access to 10 Spells.
How exactly would this work, given the current system of mutations that occur with each level of spell learned? More importantly, how would always having access to 10 spells off the bat likely be justified when the current lore is purposefully made to benefit Elves with more spells due to longevity, whereas humans had to become quite old in order to perform only at only 80% the full capacity? A subrace such as Es-Allar or Saivale would be completely undesirable since they're already not that handsome, but now they're rather stiffed when it comes to intelligence and magic since their shtick is now in the hands of anyone that can use it.

What I can see with this system in comparison to the current one, however, are primarily only benefits (save for what I mentioned above). For example:
  • Characters that currently have +10 are below average even though +10 is supposed to be the average.
  • Knights at 25 are absolutely kicking the ass of my character. While it's expected, it's tough to defend yourself against +40's when your 'all-around' character is completely useless with the double-digit proficiency system.
  • To prevent min-maxers, your limited amount of points are being forced into niche areas rather than stacked. It's very difficult to create an Orc scholar with +10 in 6 different slots of culture and lots of 'yub yubs' in this system, as well as forcing Elves to finally show their lack of physical capability in numbers rather than body build alone (which was rarely considered unless trying to throw someone over your head).
  • This system, if used in combat, can be very easily integrated into dice. Rather than having the ridiculous 2's and 5's system I proposed or the wildly bias other systems, you can just put your number bonus on top of a d20.
  • Young people who aren't skilled but are strong can now keep up with old people who are skilled but aren't strong.
  • Characters are forced to explore themes and builds rather than combinations and numbers.
  • Backstory is more important than points, and is highly emphasized here.
If it helps, here's how I'm viewing this very base concept:
  • Strength (big base, big butt), Agility (big base, big speed), Creativity (big base, big skills), Intelligence (big base, big brain),
  • 1 point in Strength gives you either 1 bonus to increase by 2, or 2 bonuses to increase by 1.
  • 1 point in Agility unlocks all bonuses to certain degrees.
  • 1 point in Creativity unlocks all bonuses to certain degrees, but you can only choose one tree to focus on.
  • 1 point in Intelligence gives you either 1 bonus to increase by 2, or 2 bonuses to increase by 1, but some skills need a certain base stat first.
For everyone who voted 'no' the first time they read through this thread, I highly recommend you give it another read through and peer through what opinions others are making. What's being provided isn't the finished product, it's just a concept chart of it. If people didn't look at the potential of concepts after fixes and additions, MineCraft itself wouldn't exist, eh?
I love this idea, though I agree with @Timisc in the sense of it needs work in the department of what certain people of age can do. I feel the environment of 'everyone starts with the same points' is kinder then 'I play a 63 year old half-elf that acts like a 20 year old but is only there for the stat points'

Though With the Vampire thing it kinda gives the opening of 'I'm an 16 year old Varlord' And Similar with mages of 'I am an all-powerful 14 year old'

I enjoy the look of such a rework regardless
I think it's pretty safe to assume that lore staff would probably put an official hard lock on what age you need to be in order to get a certain build.
  • Schools can still be lowered from 10 years to whatever to allow backstory to be better off.
  • I still think schools should be changed to techniques so that if someone wishes to have a tutor while they explore the world to build their character they can.
  • And perhaps do something like you need xyz points to be xyz body build to stop bookworms from being muscle bros.
You didn't read the system properly. You need certain points to be a certain build (it consumes half of your base points just to be 'ripped'), tutors will still be a thing since schools will exist in lore (but not in points), and schools already are being lowered to around 4 so that players have more lenience in their stories. Not only that, but if all else fails, it's really easy just to name a completely fantastical and obscure school name with a certain weapon combo you like that's only local to your char's unnamed birth place because it fits you.
 
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You didn't read the system deeply. You need certain points to be a certain build, tutors will still be a thing since schools will exist in lore (but not in points), and schools already are being lowered to around 4 so that players have more lenience in their stories.
I actually read it several times and instead took the points from this post and applied them to the current system as opposed to making an entirely new system.
 
Muscularity (i.e how muscular your character is allowed to be) is dictated by your Strength Stat. If you have 1 point it's Toned, 2 points for Athletic, 3 for Ripped, 4 for Muscular, 5 for Strongman and 6 for Muscle-god. Body fat is not defined by any rules. Players are allowed to assign whatever body fat level they like (though Built-fat is recommended for those going for Strongman). Some exceptions exist here. Orcs are always Muscular, Url are always Muscular, Varran always Ripped or Athletic etc.

Just to get a clarification, would the races that are always a certain build need to put those points into Strength? Or is it like without placing points in, they would have those numbers already?
 
How exactly would this work, given the current system of mutations that occur with each level of spell learned? More importantly, how would always having access to 10 spells off the bat likely be justified when the current lore is purposefully made to benefit Elves with more spells due to longevity, whereas humans had to become quite old in order to perform only at only 80% the full capacity? A subrace such as Es-Allar or Saivale would be completely undesirable since they're already not that handsome, but now they're rather stiffed when it comes to intelligence and magic since their shtick is now in the hands of anyone that can use it.
I think a higher spell caps for these races would be a good idea, for elves perhaps elves over 80 get 2 more spells. And the Es-Allar and Saivale get 3 or 4 bonus.
 
How exactly would this work, given the current system of mutations that occur with each level of spell learned?
We already re-invented the plans for Magic.

Spell cap at 12, for each 2 spells you require 1 more Base Stat in Intelligence, of which half the Proficiency gained must be spent in Magical Knowledge. Ex:

  • 2 spell = 1 Base Stat Int, +1 Magical Knowledge, 5 Base Stat elsewhere and 10 Proficiency to spend elsewhere.
  • 4 spell = 2 Base Stat Int, +2 Magical Knowledge, 4 Base Stat elsewhere and 8 Proficiency to spend elsewhere.
  • 6 spell = 3 Base Stat Int, +3 Magical Knowledge, 3 Base Stat elsewhere and 6 Proficiency to spend elsewhere.
Etc.
 
Just to get a clarification, would the races that are always a certain build need to put those points into Strength? Or is it like without placing points in, they would have those numbers already?
Still up for debate. All races are by default at 0 Strength Average, unless specified otherwise in lore. Then every point in Str increases the cap here, but the cap is not forced, You can choose any level beneath the cap as far as race allows. For example if you are an Orc and have 4 str, you could be Muscular or ripped or toned or athletic, but you have to be Muscular because of race limitations.

In your case, Yanar fall outside of the spectrum since they can take over body build by Ovalating. They have no forced body build ever.
 
This seems pretty good, but there is a little thing I'd like to address while we're on the subject of racial bonuses.
The Maraya really do not fit well into the nimble/rogue archetype. Myself, as well as the majority of other Maraya players at the moment play them more as intellectuals, and sometimes mastermind-type characters.
I'm strongly of the thought that their bonuses should be +1 to historical knowledge (if not more) and +1 to something else, that would play along with their mental strengths, rather than their physical ones, seeing as they really don't have any of the latter from a design standpoint.
 
Still up for debate. All races are by default at 0 Strength Average, unless specified otherwise in lore. Then every point in Str increases the cap here, but the cap is not forced, You can choose any level beneath the cap as far as race allows. For example if you are an Orc and have 4 str, you could be Muscular or ripped or toned or athletic, but you have to be Muscular because of race limitations.

In your case, Yanar fall outside of the spectrum since they can take over body build by Ovalating. They have no forced body build ever.
To pitch my two cents into this part, forcing a Muscle or Fat level seems restrictive, at least if its only one. Instead of just "Orcs must be: Muscular" making it Muscular Or Ripped. So theres a little variety, just as an example.
 
This seems pretty good, but there is a little thing I'd like to address while we're on the subject of racial bonuses.
The Maraya really do not fit well into the nimble/rogue archetype. Myself, as well as the majority of other Maraya players at the moment play them more as intellectuals, and sometimes mastermind-type characters.
I'm strongly of the thought that their bonuses should be +1 to historical knowledge (if not more) and +1 to something else, that would play along with their mental strengths, rather than their physical ones, seeing as they really don't have any of the latter from a design standpoint.
Maraya as a race are dead. I want to do some sort of structural niche review at some point. We do kind of really lack a kind of thief/stealing/sneak character, and it would be interesting to give the Maraya some sort of flat invisibility racial ability with boosts to proficiencies while tackling a visual re-work again. But this is not super relevant at the moment. Individual racial boosts are not relevant to the suggestion of the change as a whole.
 
Will there be limits still for weapons? For instance Polearm would be skill in spears, atraves, javelins, etc, but there would still be a restriction for atraves that the person needs to be at most an athletic, along with being a Nelfin or Yanar to actually use?
 
To pitch my two cents into this part, forcing a Muscle or Fat level seems restrictive, at least if its only one. Instead of just "Orcs must be: Muscular" making it Muscular Or Ripped. So theres a little variety, just as an example.
There already is. Valuur Orcs are limited to Ripped. See my Avatar.
 
Will there be limits still for weapons? For instance Polearm would be skill in spears, atraves, javelins, etc, but there would still be a restriction for atraves that the person needs to be at most an athletic, along with being a Nelfin or Yanar to actually use?
I don't think so. Atraves plays a special kind of role, and I think if a person is too muscular to wield the weapon the way the elves meant, then they will find some other way that works for them.
 
We already re-invented the plans for Magic.

Spell cap at 12, for each 2 spells you require 1 more Base Stat in Intelligence, of which half the Proficiency gained must be spent in Magical Knowledge. Ex:

  • 2 spell = 1 Base Stat Int, +1 Magical Knowledge, 5 Base Stat elsewhere and 10 Proficiency to spend elsewhere.
  • 4 spell = 2 Base Stat Int, +2 Magical Knowledge, 4 Base Stat elsewhere and 8 Proficiency to spend elsewhere.
  • 6 spell = 3 Base Stat Int, +3 Magical Knowledge, 3 Base Stat elsewhere and 6 Proficiency to spend elsewhere.
Etc.
Whoops, forgot to remove that from my post before I sent it. Put it up for public viewing sake anyway, I suppose.
I actually read it several times and instead took the points from this post and applied them to the current system as opposed to making an entirely new system.
The current system is way too complicated in comparison to this newly provided system, which is also far more numerically balanced for people who love stats.
Word count for the current proficiency page: About 3,880, give or take 10 if you include labeling. This sums up the entire system and includes specifications.
Word count for the new system: About 680, give or take 10 if you include labeling. This sums up the entire system and includes specifications.

Even if you managed to nip off about 1,000 words from the page, you still have to scroll an awful lot up and down just to get somewhat of an understand. When talking to noobs that I've helped integrate into Massive, without fail, they brought up how massive the proficiency page is. Not only this, but there's other points I provided in my previous post that really show that the current system, while it worked for a while, has been beaten up quite a lot by people looking for loopholes. As someone who also has a surprisingly great amount of trouble using something as simple as basic addition and subtraction, I end up spending just as much time trying to pick perfect stats that I do forging a character's personality. Factor in a load of exceptions, bonuses, "only if," and you've got 100 points that don't decide very much in roleplay bogging down an application, and a character, a lot more than it should be.
 
STR: 2
AGI: 2
CRE: 1
INT: 1
  • Strength:
    • 4 points - Pole Weapon Skill
  • Agility:
    • 2 points - All Agility Skills
  • Creative:
    • 2 points - Musical arts
    • 2 points - Nature Care Knowledge (Racial Bonus)
  • Intelligence:
    • 1 point - Apothecary Knowledge
    • 1 point - Surgery Knowledge
  • Body Type: Athletic
  • Fat: Medium
  • Height: 6'3
@MonMarty I hope I'm getting this right?
 
I kind of went into a weird loop here from "This looks more complicated" to "This is actually simpler" back to "Wait why does each stat have different rules?"

Im still in favor because it fixes some of the other issues but its just as complicated, if not minorly more so as the proficiency system, but explained simpler.

Boiling both down:

"Your points = your age, and you can put 10 points in a school to get 10 in the 3 proficiency it teaches. You also gain Culture Points = to your age, that are separate to other points. Then when your done slap on the free racial/culture bonuses on top."

Vs

"You get 6 points to put into 4 stats and for each point in each stat you get 2 proficiency points in that stat to put into things except when thats not how it works. For Agility 1 stat = 1 proficiency in everything, if its Creativity you can only put your points into one proficiency group all-in, and if its Intelligence its broken into 3 tiers that divvy up the proficiencies available, and for strength, ???"


Its a step forwards for expression, but three steps backwards for simplifying the system like its seemingly meant to.
 
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STR: 2
AGI: 2
CRE: 1
INT: 1
  • Strength:
    • 4 points - Pole Weapon Skill
  • Agility:
    • 2 points - All Agility Skills
  • Creative:
    • 2 points - Musical arts
    • 2 points - Nature Care Knowledge (Racial Bonus)
  • Intelligence:
    • 1 point - Apothecary Knowledge
    • 1 point - Surgery Knowledge
  • Body Type: Athletic
  • Fat: Medium
  • Height: 6'3
@MonMarty I hope I'm getting this right?
You are.
 
I'll admit, at first this did confuse me and I disliked it. But after giving it a solid ten to twenty minutes to read it over along with all the comments that explained it further, I have to say I really think this system has some serious potential. (Duh they put it to a vote). I gave my vote a yes.

I also want to mention that a lot of this will become much easier to understand once its developed more and charts are made. Its sometimes hard to describe things easily in words. There's a lot to read but once you understand its not hard at all. But in a nutshell:

Everyone starts with 6 points to put towards Strength, Agility, Creativity, or Intelligence. Every 1 point = two points you can put into any proficiency that falls under said category. 6 is the best anyone can be in one of the four categories, and is the max for both categories and proficiencies. (With a few exceptions) The amount of proficiency points will grow with racial benefits and so on.

I can really appreciate the number crunch if just for the fact that having majorly specific numbers ranging up to 50 is a real fast way to make god RP.
I know in my experience when in combat RP when someone hears i've got 40 acro, it gives me an unfair advantage both in rolls and overall. With that kind of skill supposedly I could dodge almost anything but that's just plain unrealistic. Having a number crunch with more general points spread out is a great way to ease the god RP.

(Dont get me wrong I know i'm guilty of using this to my advantage sometimes and i'm super hella sorry. You all know what im talking about... ^^; #FortPurity)

Something I would recommend changing is this big issue around the Age system. I agree everyone should start at zero when their character is born, but I think implementing milestones might be a good idea. When you hit these age milestones, you get maybe one, two points max to add. This might ease the issue between a young character being just as good as an older one, even if common sense is used.

Other then that I have little to no complaints about the system. Its a great idea! Hope this might help others who read it and I cant wait to see more.
 
Its a step forwards for expression, but three steps backwards for simplifying the system like its seemingly meant to.
I would dare accuse this to be a lack of understanding rather than a lack of simplification. The complicated part comes from rules forcing staff to understand the specifics of all 40+ schools, some of which are extremely strict to their definition as to whether or not you get it. In fact, you almost nailed the system in its vague expressions, except the ??? becomes "put 1 put in 2 sub categories or 2 in 1 sub category for every base point." If you want me to be extremely picky, with schools existing alongside points and about 25% of them having "you get x if you y," there's over 40 schools you have to read through, which don't all tailor to the player's creativity, and each have their very specific cultures / reasoning / practice / et cetera, about 500 words long each school. To make the numbers even scarier, add about 90 different individual proficiencies you can work with, and players having between 20 - 140 points to work with. I didn't quite have the patience, nor am I very good with numbers, so I very likely am providing values too small in comparison to the actuality.

The calculator is a scary thing to look at when you punch all those once 'fine as they are' numbers together. If you still don't grasp it after this explanation, that's totally okay! Settling us into a big system and then quickly introducing a small one certainly can be a shock.
 
I would dare accuse this to be a lack of understanding rather than a lack of simplification.
I missed the Strength bit because it wasnt in the same bit as the other stats breakdown, so that helps a bit.

The whole proficiency system was bloated with schools introduced to simulate proper education vs self teaching but just resulted in a ton of writing and vague lore nobody read.

Cutting back on pages isn't necessarily presenting the system as simpler though. Barring my confusion over how Strength stats worked, the rest still stands. If you ripped the school's limits and lore culture out and just left them as stats boost for customization, the Proficiency system is still much simpler at its boiled down state than the Stats system, and could be rewritten to just be less wordy and confusing.

Im still in favor of the new system, just playing devil's advocate a bit because the new system is genuinely more muddled than the old in my opinion.
 
I also agree a milestone for ages would help with keeping an older character just a little more skilled than a much younger one who's just starting out but not to the point of completely showing them up. Of course with a limit since otherwise yanar and other races that live long would become way too op, sort've like how the current system stops gaining when the character turns 60.
 
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Instead of replying to individual people who have a problem with the lack of age point calculations, I'll cover them all with my views on the situation both before and after:
  • Age is a far greater definition of quality of skill or knowledge, than Proficiency ever has been, even in the past, and in the hopeful future. In all our official quality calculators, proficiency impacted the roll quantity by half the age modifier. A low age character has and will always perform worse than a more experience person, bar for potential non-physical exertion matters. Even without this being a literal rule.
  • Many of the people who insist on an age modifier, in fact play Elves and Yanar as their mains, specifically the two races to whom age is completely irrelevant to thematic design. Both can in theory forever look like they are 18 years old, which is a luxury other races don't have. I think this is a case of home-blindness that plays into the factoring, because the opinion effectively ends up affecting "everyone but me". Perhaps investigating the feeling of why a player is against no age limits, might require them to more closely examine their own motivations and try to play the devil's advocate.
  • In the 7 or so odd years that I've ran this place, the number one thing I can say about Age and Character Design:
    • People who want to minmax will do so regardless of an age limit. This proposed system limits min maxing, but doesn't completely eliminate it because it requires quality assurance to be put in the hands of societal consent.
    • People who want to minmax will just use maxage or pick Elves and Yanar to whom age is irrelevant. In fact the usual response to being told Human Mages are fragile and senile at high levels, the response is usually just "oh just pick an Elf then", which goes to show how much age is just an irrelevant number that is played around.
    • People who play age demographics outside of their actual number portray bad roles, usually. A 400 year old Yanar is portrayed as a 16 year old high school girl, a 17 year old guy just fresh of graduation plays a 55 year old knight like a high school melodrama theatrical kid, while the 22 year old college student ends up playing the 78 year old woman like a slapstick mr. bean pun. The other plays all of their 55 year old, 17 year old, 24 year old and 124 year old Elf as the same hashed meangirls movie compilation ripoff. Generally speaking, age specific portrayals becoming non-immersion breaking and ever so off with their behavior that would not be occurring if they had the benefit of aged experience and personality maturing, is extremely common. Very few players are able to portray an age of a character they are forced to take to accommodate their Proficiency set or thematic design. Many roleplayers continue to self-insert characters with their own age behavior regardless of the character's irp age.
All in all, this argues for letting players choose their own comfort zone, instead of making arbitrary definitions of what is "realistic" because some people have trouble fathoming the difference between technique based proficiency and talent based proficiency.

A system should not be defined by the few who might abuse it, but rather by the creative freedom that it affords to the whole population. Assuming that Staff are somehow going to let badly balanced Mary Sue 18 year old Mozart prodigy characters through approval procedures is silly, and borderline insulting to the review quality of the staff. There are layers upon layers of reasons why age of a character should be a free number instead of a bar requirement for players to choose, and the only counter argument of any weight that has been presented is essentially "muh realism" in a world where people walk through wiccan zap-portals and talk with millennia old gods to ask for invisibility.

Play ability and expanding player freedom is always a good thing. We need to get the thought process out of the players that choosing an older or younger character somehow makes you morally superior or more fair because you play a character with more flaws when all these age bound flaws become convenience-rp anyway. I've legit only ever once seen a roleplayer actually get a random bout of arthritis in combat roleplay, and he just emoted grinding his teeth and continued on his merry way hopskipjump kung-fu fighting as a dwarf after doing two back flips.
 
Would Nelfin therefore not be able to acheive high combat skills? Since strength scales on body-type, and the body-type cap for most nelfin are Athletic, they would only be able to acheive 2 points.
 
This is just a personal feeling but the one thing that I've found not so useful is in regards to the cultural/racial buffs. For some cultures/races, they might make sense, but taking my main character as a counter example:
  • Chris' current Heartland Ceardian buff is Short Swords. (Given that he grew up in a naval family, imagine British navy sort of theme, I'd say that culturally, from the people around him, he was definitely more likely to pick up Cutlass or Rapier skills than Short Swords culturally). I understand that Short Swords suits inland Dragenthallers though.
  • Chris' future Heartland Ceardian buff will be History. (All knowledge is good knowledge, of course, but in reality I feel that this is will end up as another wasted buff for me that I'll never use in RP....depending on what History ends up encompassing. Currently though, I think what would be much more useful to him, and something that he might pick up culturally from the people around him, could be Empericism / Experimental Science perhaps?)
I guess what I'm saying is that the current/planned Heartland Ceardian buffs seem a bit unrelatable for my personal character, but I'm not sure how others feel? I guess I should wait and see what History entails too.
 
Two questions.

In the case of Vampire Mutations; would a freshly converted Vampire then be able to jump right to the end of their Mutation Tree at the cost of half their points?

What does Underworld Knowledge entail?
 
With creative I don't understand why you'd make it so you can only pick one branch of arts to follow. Is that to say (I don't know what it'll be sorted into but for an example) someone who can draw can't bake? Someone who can play piano can't paint? Someone who can carve a wooden animal can't make good food? and so on and so forth? Or have I misinterpreted that part?
 
Would we be able to have our character consider themselves something? An example, if you remove the school of Skagger, would all aspects of the school and their culture be gone?
 
I'm really confused and peobqbl would need someone to please help explain this to me. Help. Maybe it's just harder for me to process and @Magivore can help but I feel so lost on this one.
 
I feel like the one we currently have (The age = points) rule is easier, I never really saw it as hard either. I do feel like sometimes body builds etc. Are ignored but that isn't a problem related to the proficiency but to the role-players themselves.
I am also talking about skinny people in heavy armor i think a new system still would not be a fix to these kind of problems as they're really based on the player and not the system.
 
This system may have shorter explanations but the system itself is more complex, honestly. Before it was:

you gain a proficiency point for every year your character has been alive until 60 and you can spend a max of 40 points in any proficiency. Schools cost 10 points and boost three skills with 10 points. This also makes it so you can put up to 50 points into related proficencies.

Now it's:
you start with six base points that you can spend into one of six base stats. For each point you put into a base stat you can spend 2 into related proficiencies. You can only put 6 points into each proficiency unless racial/culture boosted in which case you can exceed the 6 point cap.

It overall becomes quite a bit more convoluted and intricate even in a shorter explanation, and perhaps it needs a longer explanation for people to get it better. And honestly you can't say it's super easy to understand when so many people don't understand it. If it was a few, maybe they're just slow but I think enough people don't get it for it to be a problem with the explanation/system, not the individual person trying to understand it
 
I felt incredibly confused at first, but after re-reading the system and reading through some staff comments I'd like to express my support for this system. I believe it is a lot more simple, balanced, and is a fresh new change to simplify lore and characters in accordance with the other new incoming lore changes, mainly the Orc revamp, the Sihai addition, and the chopping of other dead races. I think this is a great stepping stone into compacting lore into a much more simple yet effective thesaurus of character information which should be a lot more universally friendly and playable.

While I believe this system still needs some work, mainly along the lines of cultural and race boosts, it's a workable idea and in theory is better than the current system. No more characters overflooded with impractical cultural proficiencies, and no more bogged down 'regalian knights' which are entirely self centered around their combat school. This also opens up the door to fresh character archetypes, which I'm particularly excited about because, in tandem with these new race re-works(including a possible Maraya rewrite? mon certainly hinted at some editing at the very least!), could bring in a whole new pool of underused character types and further expand the diversity of roleplay.
 
II'm still mixed on everything, so the best thing I can do is just give my personal pro/con list. A disclaimer that some points have been mentioned before, and I'll try to factor those in my post:

Pros:
  • It removes a lot of proficiency groups into one term. I think this is a great step and would accept this thoroughly.
  • It creates certain perks for focusing on categories. I like the idea of certain skills not being available unless more is put into them.
  • The power caps is much smaller. I think 50 or 60 was always a crazy high number, and you just ended up with confusion on what's the different between 35 and 36.
  • It removes some schools that were silly. Some of them have never been used, due to their focus being on a niche rp role like jousting.
Cons:
  • Age and schools are irrelevant to everything, with nothing set in place to make these part of the playing field.
I think a lot of my doubts and fears are removed if Schools were just written up with limitations on who can join, age they can attend, and lore advantages to attending (not point buffs). The idea of a self taught tacticians frighten the hell out of me, even though with the current setup we've had to accept that in war progressions due to little interest in playing Marshalry tacticians who can't do anything else.

Schools should be able to exist and offer a reason to attending vs reading books on your own, even though point wise two characters are the same. Maybe for example the Medical Union places a certain honor to their students that gives their word more bearing in the fields vs some self taught surgeon barber. Or Knights have automatic weapon permits so long as they adhere to their codes of honor. Little things like that that don't really change skill, but create a dynamic between education and self learning that has potential for conflict rp.

Age will just have to be reviewed in the app. Prodigies are a Mary-Sue in my eyes, and should be curb stomped before they breathe.
 
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