Poll: Proposed Proficiency System Modification

[MonMarty]

This is a poll about a proposed system modification. So normally, we kind of force lore system changes through without asking, but this time, this whole change would be a pretty big modification to an existing system some people just barely got used to. This thread will essentially be used to poll the interest in reworking the Proficiency System to solve some child illnesses.

Let's first example the problems:

• The system has grown convoluted. Each time we added something, Magic, Vampires, Race boosts, the system got more complicated. The current system is really intimidating and daunting, despite the fact of how easy it is when you actually understand it. The learning curve is too high.
• Schools are restrictive. They almost act like Ailor culture boosts in a way that are not friendly to non Ailor races. Furthermore, they don't respect racial themes. For example an Ailor could get the same level of Khoptar as a Drowdar by following the same School, even though the Drowdar from backstory should be a lot better at handling this kind of weapon.
• Cultural proficiency completely lost their value because everyone has them up the nose, and they are usually so niche that they don't actually have a long term rewarding impact on role play.
• Backstory for characters seems to be 80% dictated by Schools and proficiency. Players are so busy bending their backstory backwards to validate their proficiency points that most characters have really dull backstories without actual creative content.
• Intellect skills are severely underrated, and often completely useless in Regalia because of progression dependency. Some players designed as generals for example would not see a battle where their points got used once every 3 months, resulting in most players abandoning these themes for more rewarding combat points.
• Age and racial design in many ways was a problem because you either get punished when playing a younger character, or playing an older character depending on the situation.
• Most players do not respect body shape mechanics for schools, backstories and sensible character designs. The amount of characters with chiseled six-pack abs who should not realistically have them by their life style is astonishing.
• Proficiency stacks often got so complicated that players could no longer compare them in live combat IRP. How do you compare a 27 year old with 23 long sword against a 21 year old with 40 axes? This lack of contextual understanding meant that the greatest strength of Proficiencies: factual numbers, went completely unused.

Let's then example the suggested solution:

• Get rid of all Schools. Schools remain a backstory thing players can get into with a minimum of 4 years, but most entry restrictions are removed, and going to one no longer gives proficiency boosts (or cost any).
• Reduce the cap of proficiency from 50 (or 60 w/ school) to 6.
• Reduce total amount of proficiency types from 93 to 33, grouping together frequently unused proficiency to make sure everyone has something to do in role play.
• Create a new mechanic called "Base Stat" that will influence the Proficiency points, categorizing everything down Strength, Agility, Creativity and Intelligence.
• Split Body Build into two different sliders for Muscularity and Body fat which independently operate from each other, and are influenced by the Strength Stat.
• All Characters are average at base 0 points in everything.

So how would the new Proficiency System work?

• Let's say I have an Ithanian Ailor character who is 36 years old. In the new system, there is no point by age calculation. All characters, regardless of age, have the same amount of Proficiency points that is dependent on the Base Stats.
• The first step is to assign the Base Stats. Every player has Base Stats which they can invest a total of 6 points into, in any and all situations. There is no bonus or reduction points here for anything or anyone. Players can choose any combination of these 6 points assigned between Strength, Agility, Creativity and Intelligence.
• For every category, the following rule applies: For every Base Stat Point assigned, you are allowed to invest double Proficiency Points into any Proficiency inside that category, regardless of your character age. Each Proficiency is capped at 6 points max, though this maximum can be broken by Race and Culture bonuses. There are however some exceptions:
  • For Agility Base Stat, you cannot choose which Proficiency Points to invest in. Instead, you gain +1 in every Proficiency within this category for each Base Stat assigned.
  • For Creative Base Stat, you cannot choose more than one Proficiency for Points. You must pick one, for example Arts Skill (which includes all Artistic Abilities) and put all points there. Creative Proficiencies however have no upper max limit of Proficiency Points invested.
  • For Intelligence Base Stat, you don't have a change for point investment, but a limitation based on Intellect Tiers where you can invest your points. Each Intelligence Proficiency has a tier, for example Religious Knowledge is Tier 3, while Statesman Knowledge is Tier 2, and Nature Care Knowledge is Tier 1. In order to be allowed to invest points in Tier1, you need any points in Intelligence Base Stat. For Tier 2, you need to put at least 3 points in Base Stat Intelligence, and for Tier 3 you need 5 points in Base Stat Intelligence.
• When you're done with your point allocation, you add your Race and/or Culture bonuses on top, for example for an Ithanian Ailor: +1 Bodycare Skill under Creative Proficiencies.
• There are some minor rules dictated here and there depending on Proficiencies, but these are all so minute that they don't need to be explained on this bullet point.
• Muscularity (i.e how muscular your character is allowed to be) is dictated by your Strength Stat. If you have 1 point it's Toned, 2 points for Athletic, 3 for Ripped, 4 for Muscular, 5 for Strongman and 6 for Muscle-god. Body fat is not defined by any rules. Players are allowed to assign whatever body fat level they like (though Built-fat is recommended for those going for Strongman). Some exceptions exist here. Orcs are always Muscular, Url are always Muscular, Varran always Ripped or Athletic etc.

That's it. That's literally all there is to it. This entire list in purple is all the rules.

But what about Mages, Vampires and Silven you say!

• For all these categories, our main concern is limiting min maxing. As such, each of these have special rules assigned that will dictate how they operate outlined below, but all of them are super simple, we promise:
• Mages are required to put at least 5 Base Stat in Intelligence Base Stat, and then also forced to put 6 Intelligence Proficiency Points into Magical Knowledge (which covers aberrations, arken, void/exist knowledge, planar knowledge etc.) This leaves them with 6 Intelligence Proficiency to spend elsewhere, and 1 more Base Stat to assign wherever they like. Inversely, all Mages, regardless of age, have access to 10 Spells. There may be some further limitations on this in the future.
• Vampires are no longer age limited. All Vampires always (regardless of age) are able to complete their Mutator tree. That being said, while being a Vampire, all of their Proficiency Points are halved, rounded down (meaning +3 becomes +1 and +1 becomes 0). This system may change in the future.
• Silven have no Proficiency impact, but are allowed to pick all Silven Mutators at birth.
• Witchblood/Hallowblood remain unaffected.

Here follows a full list of all Proficiencies:

Spoiler: List

Underworld Knowledge
Unarmed Skill
Surgery Knowledge
Statesman Knowledge
Small Blunt Skill
Shielding Skill
Sailing Knowledge
Religious Knowledge
Pole Weapon Skill
Admiralty Knowledge
Nature Care Knowledge
Musical Arts Skill
Metallurgy Skill
Marshal Knowledge
Magical Knowledge
Light Ranged Skill
Large Blunt Skill
Hunting Knowledge
Historical Knowledge
Heavy Ranged Skill
Fast Blades Skill
Fabric Craft Skill
Entertainment Skill
Eastern Knowledge
Cuisine Skill
Brewing Knowledge
Bodycare Skill
Blades Skill
Axe Skill
Arts Skill
Artillery Skill
Apothecary Knowledge
Alchemy Knowledge
Quick Fingers Skill
Sneaking Skill
Acrobatics Skill
Sprinting Skill

And a list of all proposed Cultural and Racial boosts (subject to change)

Spoiler: List

Ailor Cultures
Highland Ceardian: +1 Unarmed Wrestling
Anglian(male): +1 Heavy Longbow

Anglian(female): +1 Nature Care

Claith: +1 Historical Knowledge

Velheim: +1 Brewing Knowledge

Colonial: +1 Religious Knowledge

Ithanian: +1 Bodycare Skill

New-Regalian: +1 Statesman Knowledge

Leutz-Vixe: +1 Fabric Craft Skill

Dressolini: +1 Musical Arts Skill

Imperial: +1 Arts Skill

Heartland Ceardian: +1 Historical Knowledge

Daendroque: +1 Sailing Knowledge

Etosian: +1 Pole Weapon Skill

Vladno: +1 Brewing Knowledge


Eastern Races
Common Dynasty Sihai (current Ch'ien-ji): +1 Magical Knowledge (not implemented yet)

War Dynasty Sihai (not yet playable): +1 Blades Skill

Guo Dynasty Sihai (not yet playable): +1 Brewing Knowledge

Lova Dynasty Sihai (not yet playable): +2 Historical Knowledge


General Races
Qadir: +1 Metallurgy, +1 Quick Fingers

Songaskia: +1 Pole Weapon Skill, +1 Large Blunt Skill

Altalar: +1 Pole Weapon Skill, +1 Historical Knowledge

Cielothar: +2 Nature Care Knowledge

Drowdar: +1 Blades Skill, +1 Magical Knowledge

Avanthar: +1 Nature Care Knowledge, +1 Axe Skill

Isldar: +1 Arts Skill, +1 Musical Arts Skill

Kathar: +1 Fast Blades Skill, +1 Magical Knowledge

Yanar: +2 Nature Care Knowledge

Maraya: +1 Sneaking Skill, +1 Acrobatics Skill

Al-Allar: +1 Alchemy Knowledge, +1 Apothecary Knowledge

Mu-Allar: +1 Acrobatics Skill, +1 Blades Skill

Zu-Allar: +1 Historical Knowledge, +1 Arts Skill

Sa-Allar: +1 Nature Care Knowledge, +1 Unarmed Skill

Es-Allar: +1 Arts Skill, +1 Magical Knowledge

Cro-Allar: +1 Unarmed Skill, +1 Statesman Skill


Boosted Races
Dwarf: +2 Metallurgy Skill, +1 Axe Skill, +1 Artillery Skill

Varran: +2 Acrobatics Skill, +1 Sneaking Skill, +1 Unarmed Skill

Orc: +2 Unarmed Skill, +1 Metallurgy Skill, +1 Artillery Skill

Url: +2 Hunting Skill, +1 Sprinting Skill, +1 Unarmed Skill

Slizzar: +2 Statesman Knowledge, +2 Underworld Knowledge


Half Races
Half Human inherits the Proficiency Boost from the culture they were raised in. Half Human also covers Half-Sihai (Ch'ien-ji) and Half Qadir/Songaskians, unless with preference to one of the below mentioned half breeds.

Half Elf: +1 Light Ranged Skill

Half Orc: +1 Unarmed Skill
Half Varran (not yet implemented): +1 Acrobatics Skill

So. Player base. Yes or No?

Our main aim is to simplify, limit abuse, expand personal creativity, and make this more fun and less like math homework. We hope it achieves that goal, and would love to hear your feedback.​

 

[Battlebrawn]

@MonMarty If it's possible, could we have an example character/stat build? I'm having trouble visualizing all the base stats and skill points in regards to the character creation process, others might feel the same.

 

[MonMarty]

@MonMarty If it's possible, could we have an example character/stat build? I'm having trouble visualizing all the base stats and skill points in regards to the character creation process, others might feel the same.

Click to shrink...

Here is a Stat Build:


William Howlester, 55 year old Ailor

Base Stat: 1 Str, 0 Agi, 0 Cre, 5 Int (so he can spend 2 Prof in Str, 10 in Int)

• Strength Proficiencies
  • +1 Unarmed Skill (+1 Highland Culture)
  • +1 Blades Skill (+1 from Proficiency Points)
  • +1 Shielding Skill (+1 from Proficiency Points)
• Agility Proficiencies
  • None
• Creative Proficiencies
  • None
• Intellect Proficiencies
  • +6 Marshal Knowledge (+6 from Proficiency Points)
  • +4 Statesman Knowledge (+2 from Proficiency Points)

Body Shape

• Muscularity: Toned
• Fat: Low Fat
• Height: 6'1

 

[Reinir]

From my time playing as a Qadir, I would request that the cultural proficiencies be changed in some regard. One idea would be instead of racial boosts, there are boosts focused on style of upbringing. Granted, for some races it makes sense, like Url unarmed. But there are many others that feel like a stretch, like my character for some reason having Quick Fingers skill.

 

[Sozzer]

Somewhat odd question, but where would clockwork engineering be condensed into?

 

[MonMarty]

Another Stat Build:

Leon de las Espagnolas, 26 year old Orc
Base Points: 4 Str, 0 Agi, 1 Cre, 1 Int

• Strength Proficiencies
  • +6 Unarmed Fighting (+2 from Orc Race Points, +4 from Proficiency Points)
  • +4 Heavy Blunt (+4 from Proficiency Points)
• Agility Proficiencies
  • None
• Creative Proficiencies
  • +2 Bodycare Skill (+2 from Proficiency Points)
  • +2 Metallurgy Skill (+2 from Orc Race Points)
• Intellect Proficiencies
  • +2 Artillery Skill (+2 from Proficiency Points

Body Shape

• Muscular: Muscular (enforced on Orcs)
• Fat: Low Fat (enforced on Orcs)
• Height: ??? whatever irrelevant
  

 

[MonMarty]

Somewhat odd question, but where would clockwork engineering be condensed into?

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Metallurgy. This includes smithing, forging, casting, as well as clockwork engineering for increased versatility.

 

[MonMarty]

From my time playing as a Qadir, I would request that the cultural proficiencies be changed in some regard. One idea would be instead of racial boosts, there are boosts focused on style of upbringing. Granted, for some races it makes sense, like Url unarmed. But there are many others that feel like a stretch, like my character for some reason having Quick Fingers skill.

Click to shrink...

All Culture and Race Proficiency are up for debate. I think Quick fingers will defs get a lot more powerful, we intend to put a table on each Proficiency that explains what you can do at each level. Quick Fingers will dictate for example your ability to auto-succeed at pickpocketing in the future, a fairness system dictated by a specific roll system. So I think in the long run, we want to make sure Quick Fingers is actually fun and useful In roleplay, as opposed to just giving them some combat bonus.

 

[InDogsWeTrust]

Okay, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I do not understand this system.

Maybe if someone explained it to me slowly and patiently I would, but for now, I don't.

Honestly? I really like the system we have now, even though it is age based. That doesn't really bother me too much.

I don't find schools overly restricting, and they're not 100% of my character's backstory either.

I don't play a combat character, but I get how not taking body build into account might be annoying, so that definitely needs work. But I don't think the one we have not needs to be scrapped altogether. It makes sense (to me, anyway) the way it is.

Edit: I get it now. Please take away the two-part thing about "you can invest double the points you put into each category" because I only understood it after reading five times. Just make it one thing.

Edit 2: I REALLY like the table of things that happen at each threshold of points. Also BLESS YOU for splitting up apothecary and alchemy knowledge b/c those are v different.

 

[G0atfather]

Table

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I love the idea of a table to show what each prof can do at a level. great idea.

 

[Timisc]

What I gather from this is that a 10-year-old and a 50-year-old will be on the par with one another, which to me makes no sense. I understand the issues with the current system but to put everyone on par is a bit much. If that is incorrect then please correct me.

 

[JokerLupus]

Apothecary Knowledge
Alchemy Knowledge

Click to shrink...

What is the difference between Apothecary and Alchemy Knowledge?
Would an atraves fall under a Strength or Agility, based on their use as a weapon for the slimmer and faster characters?

Also one little change to Race Proficiency would be the Yanar one for Nature Care. I feel it'd be reasonable to either give them a higher boost than Cielothar or reduce the Cielothar to +1 Nature, +1 to another skill, perhaps Art or Music?

 

[AtticCat]

I don't get it exactly. This just seems like another edit consuming update that's more complicated than the current system, but that might just be because I'm not understanding and I'm good at the current system.

I just like this system a lot more currently, though I do think perhaps restricting the body builds or adding a bit more to it in that category might be a good idea.

 

[Reinir]

All Culture and Race Proficiency are up for debate. I think Quick fingers will defs get a lot more powerful, we intend to put a table on each Proficiency that explains what you can do at each level. Quick Fingers will dictate for example your ability to auto-succeed at pickpocketing in the future, a fairness system dictated by a specific roll system. So I think in the long run, we want to make sure Quick Fingers is actually fun and useful In roleplay, as opposed to just giving them some combat bonus.

Click to shrink...

Just to spitball ideas here, and you may have this idea already, but perhaps races could receive base stat points, instead of proficiencies? Using the Url example again, perhaps they receive 1 Strength point (not sure if 1 would be the number, it could be 2+ points to give more variation). That way it's not all of one race are good at one thing, but that race is predisposed to being good in certain related areas, like strength-based tasks.

 

[GRIST_]

What will happen to something like with the +20 knowledge points you have to have to know what mystic possession is? Will it be lowered down to something like +6 Points or?

 

[Conflee]

I like the idea of muscle / fat scaling and overall statistic scales for intelligence etc but on the same note it still looks about as complicated as the old system because theres more factors that effect more things. That might be because I am used to the age = points system so it doesn't seem too complex to me at all, but still.

I also like the idea of reducing points down from 1 a year to 1 at milestones because it removed a lot of unnecessary math and arguments over if +23 in swords is really much better than +20 in swords. Its like its broken down into tiers more comparable to the old ways.

Im also curious as to where military/leadership types would fall in this. Obviously under Intelligence but would this be simplifying it down to the point that Naval v Land warfare is just one stat? Or even further, would Battle Command v General Command be a thing still or is it JUST Land v Naval? I mainly play a tactician so that has me.

Okay, I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I do not understand this system.

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I don't get it exactly. This just seems like another edit consuming update that's more complicated than the current system, but that might just be because I'm not understanding and I'm good at the current system.

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From what I gather, you get 6 points from the get-go, or maybe from a milestone of like 10 years old or something, and you allocate them into what you want, with bonus points based on races. Then all skills under that category, you have 2 points for Proficiency per Stat point invested.

So if you have 1 point in Strength, you have 2 to invest in a combat skill.

I was wrong.

 

[Lizmun]

I have a slight issue with the mage thing - while I understand that magic should be domineering to a character and should be their main niche, I feel like it'd be better if it were only 4 forced into int and 2 base stat points were allowed to be free. This would give mages a little bit more freedom, while also putting a clear restriction in place because they are magic users.

 

[AtticCat]

From what I gather, you get 6 points from the get-go, or maybe from a milestone of like 10 years old or something, and you allocate them into what you want, with bonus points based on races. Then all skills under that category, you have 2 points for Proficiency per Stat point invested.

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What

 

[MonMarty]

What I gather from this is that a 10-year-old and a 50-year-old will be on the par with one another, which to me makes no sense. I understand the issues with the current system but to put everyone on par is a bit much. If that is incorrect then please correct me.

Click to shrink...

It is. I think most people still think about Proficiency as a flat knowledge skill. i.e a player has the same swinging speed, skill, maneuver and strength, while this is not the case. Proficiency should be considered natural born talent, which is then tempered with experience in age and physical growth in maturing. A 10 year old would have the same talent as a 50 year old, yes, but they would also still be a 10 year old and weak like a twig, so they couldn't swing the axe at the same level as the 50 year old.

 

[InDogsWeTrust]

What

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Okay so, you if you put two "base points" into the strength category, you now have FOUR points you can assign to any proficiency in the strength category.

 

[MonMarty]

What will happen to something like with the +20 knowledge points you have to have to know what mystic possession is? Will it be lowered down to something like +6 Points or?

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Possession is part of Magical Knowledge. It probably requires like +2 Magical Knowledge. It depends on the skill scaling we decide on in a later meeting.

 

[G0atfather]

Personally I think that the system itself is fine though how it effects vampires and mages are a bit iffy. If say someone wants to have a mage with 3 spells and be a paladin-esc character they can't really put many points into combat. I don't know what 2 points into a specific combat prof would be like (such as blades) but it seems a bit more restrictive than the current system. What if someone could pick a certain number of spells based on how many points they have into magical knowledge and something similar for vampires?

 

[MonMarty]

Just to spitball ideas here, and you may have this idea already, but perhaps races could receive base stat points, instead of proficiencies? Using the Url example again, perhaps they receive 1 Strength point (not sure if 1 would be the number, it could be 2+ points to give more variation). That way it's not all of one race are good at one thing, but that race is predisposed to being good in certain related areas, like strength-based tasks.

Click to shrink...

That's possible, but racial modifications are up in the air. We may completely change that, this poll is mostly about the core concept, the core of :

4 base stats
Proficiency points inside categories.

Less minmaxing, less god-rp, less mary-sue, winning for everyone.

 

[MonMarty]

Personally I think that the system itself is fine though how it effects vampires and mages are a bit iffy. If say someone wants to have a mage with 3 spells and be a paladin-esc character they can't really put many points into combat. I don't know what 2 points into a specific combat prof would be like (such as blades) but it seems a bit more restrictive than the current system. What if someone could pick a certain number of spells based on how many points they have into magical knowledge and something similar for vampires?

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Specifics up for debate still. Battlemages are possible in some schools of magic, and the rules have to be adapted, but this is something the staff can figure out with the Trustees. It doesn't have to be a linchpin of this whole poll.

 

[NoRezForYou]

I love this idea, though I agree with @Timisc in the sense of it needs work in the department of what certain people of age can do. I feel the environment of 'everyone starts with the same points' is kinder then 'I play a 63 year old half-elf that acts like a 20 year old but is only there for the stat points'

Though With the Vampire thing it kinda gives the opening of 'I'm an 16 year old Varlord' And Similar with mages of 'I am an all-powerful 14 year old'

I enjoy the look of such a rework regardless

 

[Conflee]

Ill also toss out the alternative: If this system fails to pass, creating a simple web-based program to input the stats and remove the mathing would solve the intimidation issues too. Because you cant mess up the math if a computer isnt letting you.

 

[MonMarty]

What is the difference between Apothecary and Alchemy Knowledge?
Would an atraves fall under a Strength or Agility, based on their use as a weapon for the slimmer and faster characters?

Also one little change to Race Proficiency would be the Yanar one for Nature Care. I feel it'd be reasonable to either give them a higher boost than Cielothar or reduce the Cielothar to +1 Nature, +1 to another skill, perhaps Art or Music?

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Apothecary is diagnosing, symptoms, assigning medication, but not understanding what is in said medication.

Alchemy is ingredients, effects, chemicals, and making those medication, but not understanding what they are used for.

Atraves falls under Pole Weapon Skill, which is under strength.

Nature Care is both Horticulture and Husbandry.

 

[AtticCat]

Apothecary is diagnosing, symptoms, assigning medication, but not understanding what is in said medication.

Alchemy is ingredients, effects, chemicals, and making those medication, but not understanding what they are used for.

Atraves falls under Pole Weapon Skill, which is under strength.

Nature Care is both Horticulture and Husbandry.

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Wouldn't someone that's making a Medicine know what it's used for usually?

 

[PresentMediator]

I feel like this system was simplified in some way, however just complicated in others. I do hope this will still provide characters built around "Jack of all trades, but master of none" Where instead of being a champion in one weapon type, your character has gathered basic training into several useful weapons. Sort of how medieval armies learned to use both a shield, sword, bow, and spear, to better format formations. They may not be effective in the individual weapons themselves, however they have a basic understanding, thus very strong in numbers, sort of like the tenpenny style.

 

[MonMarty]

I don't get it exactly. This just seems like another edit consuming update that's more complicated than the current system, but that might just be because I'm not understanding and I'm good at the current system.

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I assure you 100% it's much simpler. I'm trying to understand how 1000 words is more complicated than the 10,000+ words on the /Proficiency page. But it's really much simpler because you're juggling with far less numbers.

 

[Timisc]

It is. I think most people still think about Proficiency as a flat knowledge skill. i.e a player has the same swinging speed, skill, maneuver and strength, while this is not the case. Proficiency should be considered natural born talent, which is then tempered with experience in age and physical growth in maturing. A 10 year old would have the same talent as a 50 year old, yes, but they would also still be a 10 year old and weak like a twig, so they couldn't swing the axe at the same level as

Click to shrink...

This makes sense, but you are assuming that the players will follow this. To me, this could just be moving the abused points from 60 to 6. Though perhaps it could work, I'm simply picking at issues that could be.

To make a more realistic comparison, an 18-year-old who has a natural talent for sword skills but just sits in a tavern whistling at chicks is far less capable than say a 30-year-old who does guard work and is an active soldier. They could be both similarly skilled and the same strength at this age but the players will then think "Well, my character has this skill too at the same level so I could take this person" when in reality that is unlikely.

My adjustments would be as follows;

• Not removing schools and instead making them into techniques.
  • The word school confuses players and not every combat "school" needs a physical building to be learned within.
  • i.e. Knight schools should absolutely have a building to call home and train hard in, but then again those knights who go on to take squires can spread the technique that way outside of those walls. Each technique is different such as Tyrian which is much more strict.
• Stricter character reviews
  • I know this takes time and a whole lot of effort but a solution to people abusing their character builds could be solved with reviewers simply saying "that doesn't fit your char's lifestyle." This will of course cause some whining but it is a solution.

 

[Sozzer]

Metallurgy. This includes smithing, forging, casting, as well as clockwork engineering for increased versatility.

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sounds good to me.
after talking with some others on discord, there's only really two questions we've got, i'll put them both here for convenience


Are there any intelligence proficiencies that will require a full 6 points?
Why is creativity limited to one proficiency only? Does this mean it's impossible to be good at - for example - both art and music? Would it be possible to instead have taking more areas need a higher level of base creativity?

 

[MonMarty]

but you are assuming that the players will follow this.

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To be honest. Have they ever followed anything? My experience shows, in Regalian encounters, that the vast majority of the players ignore proficiency and go straight for freeform rp. I forced a couple of people down my narrow weighed roll system once and it just resulted in them complaining that their character designs were disrespected.

I think players have the capacity to self policy in this regard, and use social pressure to enforce players who fall out of the structure to conform.

 

[Havsbris_]

It is. I think most people still think about Proficiency as a flat knowledge skill. i.e a player has the same swinging speed, skill, maneuver and strength, while this is not the case. Proficiency should be considered natural born talent, which is then tempered with experience in age and physical growth in maturing. A 10 year old would have the same talent as a 50 year old, yes, but they would also still be a 10 year old and weak like a twig, so they couldn't swing the axe at the same level as the 50 year old.

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The only issue I can see with this is expecting all players to have common sense to realize such facts. While I find the clumping of profs to make the system much easier a boost, I cant help but feel the age matter in the system is problematic to the case. It just feels like fuel to start arguments and issues between players in combat. Because while I get the general populace is wise enough to understand common sense, I don't think the whole cant have it's folks whom abuse or just completely ignore the sense of factors like age in combat. Personally, I think the lowering of skills is good, and clumping of profs, however I just believe it shouldn't be everyone is on the same state from birth.

 

[Wumpatron]

It is. I think most people still think about Proficiency as a flat knowledge skill. i.e a player has the same swinging speed, skill, maneuver and strength, while this is not the case. Proficiency should be considered natural born talent, which is then tempered with experience in age and physical growth in maturing. A 10 year old would have the same talent as a 50 year old, yes, but they would also still be a 10 year old and weak like a twig, so they couldn't swing the axe at the same level as the 50 year old.

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In theory does this mean a 25 year old matched on skill with a 50 year old would be able to defeat them with ease? If yes and other people read the comments there is more value in being an older character that has seen more and has more experience than a young gifted boy.

Second question, what about schools such as the Viridian Order and other knightly backgrounds? Things that are heavily referenced in lore and IG happenings. What happens to them if schools are gone?

Third and final question. If I have 2 in swords and someone else had 6, how does it compare in terms of skill? Could the 2 still beat the 6 if other skills are invested into like agility and then having more muscle?

 

[MonMarty]

Are there any intelligence proficiencies that will require a full 6 points?
Why is creativity limited to one proficiency only? Does this mean it's impossible to be good at - for example - both art and music? Would it be possible to instead have taking more areas need a higher level of base creativity?

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• Require, no. But it's always beneficial to go that high.
• Because Creative Proficiencies are already huge. Entertainment for example covers Literature, Stage Performance, Poetry and some, while Musical Skill includes instrumental, vocal, composition etc. Arts include sculpting, drawing, sketching, painting etc. The cultural forms are "uomo universale" following the design style of the "renaissance man" like leonardo da vinci and Michelangelo.

 

[MonMarty]

In theory does this mean a 25 year old matched on skill with a 50 year old would be able to defeat them with ease? If yes and other people read the comments there is more value in being an older character that has seen more and has more experience than a young gifted boy.

Second question, what about schools such as the Viridian Order and other knightly backgrounds? Things that are heavily referenced in lore and IG happenings. What happens to them if schools are gone?

Third and final question. If I have 2 in swords and someone else had 6, how does it compare in terms of skill? Could the 2 still beat the 6 if other skills are invested into like agility and then having more muscle?

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• I would say it's a toss up. My 35 won from 55 year old Percival Ravenstad because he is old. His experience was tempered by the speed and youth of my character, and he ended up winning in rolls even though it got close a few times.
• Schools remain, but they can be more freely placed in backstory instead of taking 1/5 of your entire backstory time away and preventing you from doing anything else but that. They will be reduced to 4 years, and can be more freely placed in a backstory so the backstory can be written for the backstory, not to make an excuse for the skill points.
• Not sure yet. Proficiency points dictate base talent. It stands to reason that the 6 points high has "more talent" for swords, but can still lose because of a whole variety of factors.

 

[Conflee]

It is. I think most people still think about Proficiency as a flat knowledge skill. i.e a player has the same swinging speed, skill, maneuver and strength, while this is not the case. Proficiency should be considered natural born talent, which is then tempered with experience in age and physical growth in maturing. A 10 year old would have the same talent as a 50 year old, yes, but they would also still be a 10 year old and weak like a twig, so they couldn't swing the axe at the same level as the 50 year old.

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Part of this could be down to it being named proficiency, which implies its a ranking in how proficient and capable they are.

Semantics and a guess but a name change might be in order for the points system like just generic "Knowledge" or something.

 

[Timisc]

To be honest. Have they ever followed anything? My experience shows, in Regalian encounters, that the vast majority of the players ignore proficiency and go straight for freeform rp. I forced a couple of people down my narrow weighed roll system once and it just resulted in them complaining that their character designs were disrespected.

I think players have the capacity to self policy in this regard, and use social pressure to enforce players who fall out of the structure to conform.

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Rarely they do, but this just further says "We now allow you to break character." almost like Lore agrees to it. It would be further uncontrolled and a headache for Lore when twice the tickets roll in.

 

[Arhbi]

This new suggestion makes me more confused than what I am with the current one.