Archived Massivecraft's Unique Pvp

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A Brief History of PvP
Generally Massivecraft PvP has always had some way of being unique. Back 3 years ago we had Mcmmo mechanics mixed with racial bonuses. Vampires soon dominated PvP, only soon to be nerfed. Then after that Races were removed and MassiveTraits were born. A system where you could customize PvP to your own needs, gaining resistance to different weapons and powering the usage of the weapon of your choice. I'll admit the pluggin was a bit archaic for its time, but it was really fun.

Today on Massivecraft, the "PvPers" want kit PvP in the survival world.​

EVERY
OTHER
SERVER
HAS
KIT
PVP​

and it is really boring. Kit pvp doesn't promote weapon specialization and does not support team fighting very well. Just incase you don't know what Kit PvP is, here is a short rundown.

*Hack* *Slashy* *Hack* *Health Potion*
*Hack* *Slashy* *Hack* Pearls away and tries to desperately move health potions into hot bar.
Repeat until armor breaks, run out of potions or forget to use potions.
*Emphasis on people running away when at 10% HP*​

"Poky, you could say that about any game" - Anonymous
​
Sure you could, but most other games do not require you to grind for 25+ hours to get an alchemy level which allows you to make the only thing that keeps you even with the competition. Resistance, Absorption and Healthboost potions. Not to mention that Alchemy is the most expensive skill to train, with it requiring you to make hundreds of double chests of potions to gain an adequate level.

This is why Massivetraits was so nice, because it got around the need to create Healthboost and Absorption potions. Let me remind you. I was against traits for PVP, but now that I see how fundamental it was to letting players jump straight into PvP. I regret my previous stance.

Here comes the part where I would normally propose a complicated idea for a horrendously time inducing pluggin. Not this time. #BringBackTraitPvP

Any comments related to making PvP on Massive more Unique are welcome. Typical PvPer responses (Flame) will be removed.
 
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Limited McMMO (nerfed armor damage and bleeding + no damage increases for axes + no mcmmo potions) and races. Rest should be vanilla. Custom potions could be allowed for roleplay, but should have no value in PvP. Traits have never been a great implementation imo, and have just created meta after meta. Races were somewhat balanced, besides a few that were never/rarely used.

Traits doesn't change PvP in any specific way because all it does is make everyone some super human. With the race system, you could have tanks (undead race) water support (maiars) archers (elves) and swords and axemen. Nowadays everyone has the same trait build with the exact same debuffs rendering the idea that traits makes massive unique mostly invalid.
 
pokyug said:
*Hack* *Slashy* *Hack* *Health Potion*
*Hack* *Slashy* *Hack* Pearls away and tries to desperately move health potions into hot bar.
Repeat until armor breaks, run out of potions or forget to use potions.
*Emphasis on people running away when at 10% HP*
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i'm not gonna lie this is my impression of pvp
 
I like you and all, so just ignore the fact that I'm going to disagree with everything you said on this thread <3

pokyug said:
Generally Massivecraft PvP has always had some way of being unique. Back 3 years ago we had Mcmmo mechanics mixed with racial bonuses. Vampires soon dominated PvP, only soon to be nerfed. Then after that Races were removed and MassiveTraits were born. A system where you could customize PvP to your own needs, gaining resistance to different weapons and powering the usage of the weapon of your choice. I'll admit the pluggin was a bit archaic for its time, but it was really fun.
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Unique =/= good. Races were fine. They gave small buffs, enough where you could go "yeah, that's kinda cool," but not enough that you can't do the following:
  • Regulate damage in any reasonable form
  • Have to have a pretty good understanding of the plugin in order to even attempt to pvp with anyone good.
  • Use certain traits to troll, just straight up run with no chance of being caught, or otherwise just straight up ruin pvp.
Of course, the issue with races is that it's a very, very old plugin at this point, and so there'd have to be a lot of work done in order to make it reasonably usable.

pokyug said:
Today on Massivecraft, the "PvPers" want kit PvP in the survival world.
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What. No, we don't. I don't want kits in any way shape or form in the survival worlds, unless we're talking about HCF classes. Which won't be added to massive because everybody but me hates the idea. If you're talking about vanilla pvp, I mean, I guess. To an extent. Personally I think straight vanilla pvp is very unbalanced, clanky, and kinda boring. Much better the way massive has it set up. If we're talking about an HCF kit map or something similar, than sure. I'm a big fan of hcf pvp. Honestly, I'm not that great at massive pvp; I'm pretty damned good on hcf and 1.7 servers, if I do say so myself. But no. We don't want kit pvp.

pokyug said:
and it is really boring
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Not really. I find it quite fun, as do most other pvpers on massive. Thousands more people do, if you count all kit pvp servers. Not that I want the survival worlds to become kit pvp servers.

pokyug said:
doesn't promote weapon specialization
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Okay? Weapon specialization isn't a thing in minecraft. There's an axe, a sword, and a bow. I guess unarmed if you count that. Axes and swords are very much common, bows to an extent, although they require little actual skill (and were immensely overpowered in all the wrong ways with traits), and unarmed is honestly just for trolling.

pokyug said:
does not support team fighting very well.
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On the contrary, both "kit pvp" and what massive's survival worlds are, support team fighting quite well. I mean, if you want proof of that, just pvp a bit on massive. If you want proof of it on a generic "kit pvp" or hcf or whatever, look up some hcf team fights on youtube. The amount of teamwork and coordination involved with those is insane, and adding traits won't help massive achieve anything like that; it'll just hurt the pvp community more, diminishing the number of pvpers in the community and therefore reducing the number and size of team fights.

pokyug said:
*Hack* *Slashy* *Hack* *Health Potion*
*Hack* *Slashy* *Hack* Pearls away and tries to desperately move health potions into hot bar.
Repeat until armor breaks, run out of potions or forget to use potions.
*Emphasis on people running away when at 10% HP*
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Well that's just a bit mean :P. There's really a hell of a lot more than goes into that. I mean, potting correctly in itself is pretty difficult to master, that's one of the biggest things people I've taught how to pvp screw up. People also don't really pearl away that much to refill, at least if they're any good, they just refill while the other guy is potting. Nothing you can do is going to stop people from running at 10%. I think you were the one who proposed the slowness every time you get hit (sorry if you weren't, don't remember what thread that was on so I can't check), and that wouldn't work out for the reasons I stated in the other thread. Anyways, I think this is a gross understatement of what pvp actually involves. Frankly, vanilla pvp requires much more skill than what massive requires.

pokyug said:
Sure you could, but most other games do not require you to grind for 25+ hours to get an alchemy level which allows you to make the only thing that keeps you even with the competition. Resistance, Absorption and Healthboost potions. Not to mention that Alchemy is the most expensive skill to train, with it requiring you to make hundreds of double chests of potions to gain an adequate level.

This is why Massivetraits was so nice, because it got around the need to create Healthboost and Absorption potions.
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This is a bit misinformed too, no offense.

First, a lot of pvpers don't actually pvp with resistance. I don't. I know several deldrimor members don't. Absorption pots are the first or second potion you unlock, which doesn't require a ton of grinding, granted I grinded most of my alchemy levels when it was easier to grind and also was the sole brewer for SunKiss in our prime, until we got brewers later (who frankly were a life save lol). For healthboost pots, you go through those so slowly you can buy 10 dubs and be set pretty much for life.

This isn't to say I really like the mcmmo pots. Personally I'd prefer they were all removed, or alchemy was made much easier to grind, but both of those options would piss a lot of people off.

pokyug said:
Here comes the part where I would normally propose a complicated idea for a horrendously time inducing pluggin. Not this time. #BringBackTraitPvP
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I'm gonna just paste in something I wrote a while ago that pretty much sums up trait pvp.
jes_ said:
This really defeats the purpose of traits, to make pvp more unique, and instead it becomes pvp with really weird damage, due to having 14 hearts instead of 10, and having a ton of factors affecting damage, making it harder to regulate.
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BenRekt said:
Limited McMMO (nerfed armor damage and bleeding + no damage increases for axes + no mcmmo potions) and races. Rest should be vanilla. Custom potions could be allowed for roleplay, but should have no value in PvP. Traits have never been a great implementation imo, and have just created meta after meta. Races were somewhat balanced, besides a few that were never/rarely used.

Traits doesn't change PvP in any specific way because all it does is make everyone some super human. With the race system, you could have tanks (undead race) water support (maiars) archers (elves) and swords and axemen. Nowadays everyone has the same trait build with the exact same debuffs rendering the idea that traits makes massive unique mostly invalid.
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MassiveHCF amirite
 
BenRekt said:
Limited McMMO (nerfed armor damage and bleeding + no damage increases for axes + no mcmmo potions) and races. Rest should be vanilla. Custom potions could be allowed for roleplay, but should have no value in PvP. Traits have never been a great implementation imo, and have just created meta after meta. Races were somewhat balanced, besides a few that were never/rarely used.

Traits doesn't change PvP in any specific way because all it does is make everyone some super human. With the race system, you could have tanks (undead race) water support (maiars) archers (elves) and swords and axemen. Nowadays everyone has the same trait build with the exact same debuffs rendering the idea that traits makes massive unique mostly invalid.
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Now dont get me wrong... but this doesnt sound very unique. Why not make Massive PVP unique in a way that you cant get on any other server? Instead of making it like every other server.

Now @BenRekt or @jes_ or anybody who was around for races... let me ask you. Did the PVPers use different races? Of course I know that with traits.. there was a few differing builds but for the most part everybody had the same build, effectively making the traits pointless, since nobody has any upperhand any more than they would in vanilla... But if they all used the same traits.. did they use the same races?
 
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Zacatero said:
Now dont get me wrong... but this doesnt sound very unique. Why not make Massive PVP unique in a way that you cant get on any other server? Instead of making it like every other server.

Now @BenRekt or @jes_ or anybody who was around for races... let me ask you. Did the PVPers use different races? Of course I know that with traits.. there was a few differing builds but for the most part everybody had the same build, effectively making the traits pointless, since nobody has any upperhand any more than they would in vanilla... But if they all used the same traits.. did they use the same races?
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They used two races, generally. I think some of the team based races really could've been used morethan they were, but I don't really remember the specifics. My point though is that races makes the roleplayers happy and gives it the unique thing while not affecting pvp a lot. That's the way it should be. If you really want something that makes massive pvp clearly not vanilla, than you should look at hcf classes. But, again, I can't say that the majority of pvpers would get behind something like that. It'd also be kind of weird just because of how massive is configured pvp-wise.

As for why we should try to be like other servers, is because, well honestly other servers are better. Me and Ben have both said it before, if we're talking about massive pvp versus just about anything else, massive looses 9 times out of ten. The difference is no TNT vcannons, no monthly resets, pvp has the potential to actually mean something etc. If massive can keep those qualities, while getting pvp itself where other servers are, then that's a winner.
 
jes_ said:
The difference is no TNT vcannons
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For starters, do you mean TNT cannons that can damage builds or just players?

jes_ said:
The difference is no TNT vcannons, no monthly resets, pvp has the potential to actually mean something
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I dont think that the "Pvp meaning something" belongs with the other two. You can achieve that without cannons or map resets.. and I dont quite understand how monthly map resets would benefit Massive in any way, including PVP.
 
Zacatero said:
I dont think that the "Pvp meaning something" belongs with the other two. You can achieve that without cannons or map resets.. and I dont quite understand how monthly map resets would benefit Massive in any way, including PVP.
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It kind of does belong with each other though. Especially the cannons. This is probably like the only Factions server in existance where you can go in a house and just shrug off a raid and pretend it isn't happening. Which IS a problem. Why do people say "knock knock" to Factions that they're raiding in general chat? It's not because they're trying to be funny, it's because if you want to raid someone you have get their attention and ask them to come out and defend. And if they don't want to, you might as well pack up and leave, because you sure aren't getting inside to where they are. A cannon plugin along with some sort of creeperheal plugin is one of many ways that would alleviate that problem, and probably the best one which is why it's been suggested several times.

Honestly, that alone would do so much as far as getting Pvpers interested in playing on massive. They don't want to join a server where they can't really even raid people.
 
Zacatero said:
dont think that the "Pvp meaning something" belongs with the other two. You can achieve that without cannons or map resets.. and I dont quite understand how monthly map resets would benefit Massive in any way, including PVP.
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Those were positives of massive, not negatives. Monthly resets would suck lol.
 
So, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

The class system idea, really appeals to me.

I'm of the opinion that most PvP has to do with melee fighting, and very little of everything else. this is great, except when you suck at melee fighting. By suck, I mean there is no amount of "git gud" that will fix it.

I suppose you could divide the classes up into a few categories:
  • Melee: my stereotype of PvP. deal more melee damage.
  • Ranged: buffs archery, but lowers melee to balance.
  • Tank: more resistance, but slower attacks and movement.
  • Healer: more health and regen, but terrible fighting stats.

    This is very generalized, but I think it would lead to some variety, and might encourage people to PvP. That Naga bit where the team benefits is one aspect I think would be good to have.

    So to sum this idea up: sure, you could have a bunch of Melee fighters run it to fight, but it would be a lot more effective if you had some support members healing members as you worry about fighting.
 
FireFan96 said:
So, I'll throw in my 2 cents.

The class system idea, really appeals to me.

I'm of the opinion that most PvP has to do with melee fighting, and very little of everything else. this is great, except when you suck at melee fighting. By suck, I mean there is no amount of "git gud" that will fix it.

I suppose you could divide the classes up into a few categories:
  • Melee: my stereotype of PvP. deal more melee damage.
  • Ranged: buffs archery, but lowers melee to balance.
  • Tank: more resistance, but slower attacks and movement.
  • Healer: more health and regen, but terrible fighting stats.

    This is very generalized, but I think it would lead to some variety, and might encourage people to PvP. That Naga bit where the team benefits is one aspect I think would be good to have.

    So to sum this idea up: sure, you could have a bunch of Melee fighters run it to fight, but it would be a lot more effective if you had some support members healing members as you worry about fighting.
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Orrrrrrrrrr..........
These aren't straight hcf kits I swear actually they are but yolo

Diamond/tank- Just vanilla diamond armor, primary fighting class. Bulk of a team fight.
Archer/leather armor- speed 3 constantly, archery gives play it hits a mark which causes that play to temporarily take more damage. Can right click and consume sugar once every x amount of seconds for 5 seconds of speed 4/5.
Bard/Mage/gold armor- Can hold various items in order to give surrounding teammates buffs in the form of status effects. Ie, can hold ghast tear to give regen 1, blaze powder to give strength, sugar to give speed, etc. Upon right clicking item, it consumes one of the item, as well as takes bard energy (which auto recharges), and gives surrounding teammates one higher of that effect than what is normally obtainable. Ie speed3, strength3, etc.
Miner/utility class/ Iron- Gives speed/haste/night vision/all the other things that are required/helpful for building.
Assassin/Rogue/Chain armor- Has speed2/3 constantly, and has ability to consume a gold sword on someone and deal a large number of hearts (like 3), good for sniping a kill before someone can pot. Might be a bit overpowered on massive since you can see health and know how close someone is to quickdropping.

Those are literally the hcf classes but what you don't know doesn't hurt you
 
jes_ said:
Relatively sure op was talking about survival. I was in all of my posts.
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jes_ said:
Orrrrrrrrrr..........
These aren't straight hcf kits I swear actually they are but yolo

Diamond/tank- Just vanilla diamond armor, primary fighting class. Bulk of a team fight.
Archer/leather armor- speed 3 constantly, archery gives play it hits a mark which causes that play to temporarily take more damage. Can right click and consume sugar once every x amount of seconds for 5 seconds of speed 4/5.
Bard/Mage/gold armor- Can hold various items in order to give surrounding teammates buffs in the form of status effects. Ie, can hold ghast tear to give regen 1, blaze powder to give strength, sugar to give speed, etc. Upon right clicking item, it consumes one of the item, as well as takes bard energy (which auto recharges), and gives surrounding teammates one higher of that effect than what is normally obtainable. Ie speed3, strength3, etc.
Miner/utility class/ Iron- Gives speed/haste/night vision/all the other things that are required/helpful for building.
Assassin/Rogue/Chain armor- Has speed2/3 constantly, and has ability to consume a gold sword on someone and deal a large number of hearts (like 3), good for sniping a kill before someone can pot. Might be a bit overpowered on massive since you can see health and know how close someone is to quickdropping.

Those are literally the hcf classes but what you don't know doesn't hurt you
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So these.. "classes" would edit your survival armor?
 
Zacatero said:
So these.. "classes" would edit your survival armor?
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Basically when you put on that armor it will give you those abilities. If you don't have a full set you don't get any abilities, you have mixed armor, no abilities.
 
Okay, I guess I'm gonna add my two cents as a uh, filthy casual occasional pvp dog.

What if we instead of set classes, we have an add/subtract system that edits you basic vanilla minecraft combat traits.

Like, every game adds diversity to classes/units by changing up different core elements of gameplay. For example, the "tank" and "glass cannon" archetypes are characterized by having low speed and high health, or high dps and health.

In fact, almost every combat related game has this in some way shape or form. I have no idea what the technical term for this, but I like to call it the Law of Equivalent Differences, or the ED rule of thumb.

Anyhow, what if there was a command system where an individual player could edit their own stats in a rigid, rock/paper/scissor fashion

Ex:

Increase player health / Player Defense yields decreased damage, and an increase in player damage yields an decrease in player speed, and an increase in player speed yields decreased health/defense

Of course, there /are/ other factors that can be taken into effect, like knockback, attack speed, crit damage, and the like, but I don't really know how they would rule into this in a balanced fashion. Or, more specifically, I'm keeping it simple because balance in combat is a delicate thing.

Also, with the example, I would rather have defense decrease speed and damage decrease defense tbh, but I thought you'd like this more, since equipping speed in favor of defense would make running away ironically less viable
 
What it all boils down to is PvP in every game is supposed to be heavily regulated. If there are exploits, P2W options, or overpowered ways to dominate, all you hear is complaining.

Traits made it pretty difficult to keep everything in check. At this point rolling the traits back in would not be a good decision.

I do however believe alchemy should be more accessible. Perhaps even a world you can grind those ingredients. Aside from Thorns, just about every enchantment you need for armor or weapons is pretty easy to get. I typically grind out a god sword or armor set in as little as two hours if im lucky.

The issue more often than not is just the materials and keeping them instock.
 
Kaezir said:
Aside from Thorns, just about every enchantment you need for armor or weapons is pretty easy to get. I typically grind out a god sword or armor set in as little as two hours if im lucky.
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I don't understand your point here.

Originally when alchemy was added, it was much easier to grind, and was a reasonable grind to get 1k. I think adding a permanent xp modifier for alchemy (can be done via mcmmo config files) would be good.
 
jes_ said:
I don't understand your point here.

Originally when alchemy was added, it was much easier to grind, and was a reasonable grind to get 1k. I think adding a permanent xp modifier for alchemy (can be done via mcmmo config files) would be good.
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Im stating i find I have an easier time enchanting than brewing. So alchemy is indeed in need of a boost.
 
Zacatero said:
I totally agree with this. It at least would balance the time it takes to max it out with the other things. But let me ask...

Why would no mcmmo pots be better?
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Easier pot management, (even) easier to modify damage, absorption is annoying, and there's not really any reason for it. Vanilla potions are perfectly balanced on their own, it's the one thing mojang actually managed to do right with pvp.
 
Zacatero said:
I totally agree with this. It at least would balance the time it takes to max it out with the other things. But let me ask...

Why would no mcmmo pots be better?
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Because McMMO pots are complete cancer. We all talk about metas and fail to recognize the fact that PvP has basically just become a contest as to who has more resistance potions and healthboost 2s because at the moment hit registration isn't nearly as good as it was a couple months ago when it was completely overhauled and combos could actually be achieved.

I'd actually revise my statement. Like @jes_ said, HCF classes would actually make Massive absolutely nuts. It would actually be one of the most amazing PvP experiences anywhere, I can certainly guarantee it.

Imagine if instead of just seeing a bunch of people in blue diamond suits, you still saw a lot of people in blue suits, but behind them are several people with leather armor and bows shooting the opposition and marking targets for their team along with players in gold armor running around acting as buff beacons for their teammates. Certain archers and bards would be targeted and real strategy would actually come into play rather than just how has more people online fighting. Then imagine the fact that even more kits could be added to add some real variety instead of creating meta after meta after meta.

I can almost guarantee that anyone who outright opposes this idea has never even played or seen HCF kits, because I have had some of my greatest experiences ever playing on some great HCF servers and they do create intense fights. Not that it doesn't have its flaws, such as not being "unique", but everything has flaws. In my eyes, traits isn't even unique anymore considering half of them were gone. In my eyes, races were actually what made Massive stand out significantly among the sea of other servers.
 
BenRekt said:
I can almost guarantee that anyone who outright opposes this idea has never even played or seen HCF kits, because I have had some of my greatest experiences ever playing on some great HCF servers and they do create intense fights. Not that it doesn't have its flaws, such as not being "unique", but everything has flaws. In my eyes, traits isn't even unique anymore considering half of them were gone. In my eyes, races were actually what made Massive stand out significantly among the sea of other servers.
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Honestly i have never played HCF and in my opinion this sounds amazing. It would make PVP feel less like a chore. And about the uniqueness.. im sure Massive can twist it in a unique way? Or perhaps having it added with the other things Massive already has might make it unique too
 
BenRekt said:
Because McMMO pots are complete cancer. We all talk about metas and fail to recognize the fact that PvP has basically just become a contest as to who has more resistance potions and healthboost 2s because at the moment hit registration isn't nearly as good as it was a couple months ago when it was completely overhauled and combos could actually be achieved.

I'd actually revise my statement. Like @jes_ said, HCF classes would actually make Massive absolutely nuts. It would actually be one of the most amazing PvP experiences anywhere, I can certainly guarantee it.

Imagine if instead of just seeing a bunch of people in blue diamond suits, you still saw a lot of people in blue suits, but behind them are several people with leather armor and bows shooting the opposition and marking targets for their team along with players in gold armor running around acting as buff beacons for their teammates. Certain archers and bards would be targeted and real strategy would actually come into play rather than just how has more people online fighting. Then imagine the fact that even more kits could be added to add some real variety instead of creating meta after meta after meta.

I can almost guarantee that anyone who outright opposes this idea has never even played or seen HCF kits, because I have had some of my greatest experiences ever playing on some great HCF servers and they do create intense fights. Not that it doesn't have its flaws, such as not being "unique", but everything has flaws. In my eyes, traits isn't even unique anymore considering half of them were gone. In my eyes, races were actually what made Massive stand out significantly among the sea of other servers.
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I haven't played HCF, but I've played on a server with a very similar plugin that had 4 armor based classes much like the ones described, just they had a series of skills that had to be gained by levelling, similar to mcmmo, rather than having them all straight away. And the amount of fun and strategy and teamwork that it allowed for was awesome. Not even just in Pvp, but for survival in general. Funny enough, the reason I left that server like 4 years ago was because they removed that plugin and made it vanilla, and mostly everyone else kinda got bored and left.

So I totally believe it's as good as you say it is.
 
jes_ said:
Basically when you put on that armor it will give you those abilities. If you don't have a full set you don't get any abilities, you have mixed armor, no abilities.
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BenRekt said:
Because McMMO pots are complete cancer. We all talk about metas and fail to recognize the fact that PvP has basically just become a contest as to who has more resistance potions and healthboost 2s because at the moment hit registration isn't nearly as good as it was a couple months ago when it was completely overhauled and combos could actually be achieved.

I'd actually revise my statement. Like @jes_ said, HCF classes would actually make Massive absolutely nuts. It would actually be one of the most amazing PvP experiences anywhere, I can certainly guarantee it.

Imagine if instead of just seeing a bunch of people in blue diamond suits, you still saw a lot of people in blue suits, but behind them are several people with leather armor and bows shooting the opposition and marking targets for their team along with players in gold armor running around acting as buff beacons for their teammates. Certain archers and bards would be targeted and real strategy would actually come into play rather than just how has more people online fighting. Then imagine the fact that even more kits could be added to add some real variety instead of creating meta after meta after meta.

I can almost guarantee that anyone who outright opposes this idea has never even played or seen HCF kits, because I have had some of my greatest experiences ever playing on some great HCF servers and they do create intense fights. Not that it doesn't have its flaws, such as not being "unique", but everything has flaws. In my eyes, traits isn't even unique anymore considering half of them were gone. In my eyes, races were actually what made Massive stand out significantly among the sea of other servers.
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So to clarify, you only get the abilities if you're wearing a full set of the armor that corresponds to the abilities?

Ex: A healer type class that requires a full set of gold armor being worn. That would be correct, yes?

If so, then I think with the right configuration for Massive's survival worlds, it might work. My concerns are:

  1. With the way damage on Massive is, (not talking about glitched damage, but the fact that a fully potted, Sharp V, maxed mcmmo player does a lot more damage than the average person) i'd be worried about people wearing any armor below God Armor getting 1/2 shot. Now I understand the goal would be to protect your less armored teammates, but an enemy doing a pearl and rush into the middle of your teammates and instantly killing your healer could be a serious downer. Maybe it won't turn out like this. That's just my worry that people below God Armor will see severe disadvantages that aren't balanced out.
A pro I could see is people creating sets of "God armor" for each level of armor. (Prot IV Unbreaking III in leather, iron, and gold. So they can have the best chance of surviving when wearing less resistant armor. Could open a new market to people grinding iron, gold, and leather more, and enchanting those pieces of armor.

I also think this has the possibility of getting new players that aren't exactly the best at conventional hack and slash fighting into PVP. The veteran PVPers can still use God Armor and fight like normal, and the newer players can use gold/iron/leather armor and help in a supporting role, while still experiencing PVP to a degree.
 
Alj23 said:
So to clarify, you only get the abilities if you're wearing a full set of the armor that corresponds to the abilities?

Ex: A healer type class that requires a full set of gold armor being worn. That would be correct, yes?
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Correct

Alj23 said:
With the way damage on Massive is, (not talking about glitched damage, but the fact that a fully potted, Sharp V, maxed mcmmo player does a lot more damage than the average person) i'd be worried about people wearing any armor below God Armor getting 1/2 shot. Now I understand the goal would be to protect your less armored teammates, but an enemy doing a pearl and rush into the middle of your teammates and instantly killing your healer could be a serious downer. Maybe it won't turn out like this. That's just my worry that people below God Armor will see severe disadvantages that aren't balanced out.
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I would think that depending on what class the armor is assigned to.. either the strength of the armor would stay the same or get altered to be better suited. However, I do not think that it would be necessary for the reason you are saying. A diamond armor should be fighting OTHER diamond armor fighters in this scenario, not diamond vs leather etc.. For example, an archer in leather armor wouldnt need the diamond equivalent armor per-say because they SHOULD be farther away using a bow.

Alj23 said:
A pro I could see is people creating sets of "God armor" for each level of armor. (Prot IV Unbreaking III in leather, iron, and gold. So they can have the best chance of surviving when wearing less resistant armor. Could open a new market to people grinding iron, gold, and leather more, and enchanting those pieces of armor.
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THAT is a great observation. I think that this would really strengthen a part of the armor/enchanting market that isnt being used at all.
 
Alj23 said:
So to clarify, you only get the abilities if you're wearing a full set of the armor that corresponds to the abilities?

Ex: A healer type class that requires a full set of gold armor being worn. That would be correct, yes?

If so, then I think with the right configuration for Massive's survival worlds, it might work. My concerns are:

  1. With the way damage on Massive is, (not talking about glitched damage, but the fact that a fully potted, Sharp V, maxed mcmmo player does a lot more damage than the average person) i'd be worried about people wearing any armor below God Armor getting 1/2 shot. Now I understand the goal would be to protect your less armored teammates, but an enemy doing a pearl and rush into the middle of your teammates and instantly killing your healer could be a serious downer. Maybe it won't turn out like this. That's just my worry that people below God Armor will see severe disadvantages that aren't balanced out.
A pro I could see is people creating sets of "God armor" for each level of armor. (Prot IV Unbreaking III in leather, iron, and gold. So they can have the best chance of surviving when wearing less resistant armor. Could open a new market to people grinding iron, gold, and leather more, and enchanting those pieces of armor.

I also think this has the possibility of getting new players that aren't exactly the best at conventional hack and slash fighting into PVP. The veteran PVPers can still use God Armor and fight like normal, and the newer players can use gold/iron/leather armor and help in a supporting role, while still experiencing PVP to a degree.
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With HCF kits, the kits that wear non-diamond armor (gold, leather, sometimes chain) get some nice buffs, for example the bard gets constant speed 2 with an ability to activate speed 3 for several seconds as well as resistance 2/3 (can't quite remember). The archer also always has speed 3 with an ability to activate speed 4 as well as some kind of resistance potion effect that constantly stays on them (just like the bard). Some HCF servers also have chain mail kits, where they can use gold swords and if they are able to come up behind an enemy, they can use the gold sword and backstab them for a huge damage buff, although it does consume the gold sword, meaning you have to carry several with you.
 
I'm not a big pvper, but I see everything on here talking about massive restore. people like to build, that requires materials, and makes the terrain nearby look horrid, give it a month after you build and the nearby terrain looks great. you don't want a majestic castle in a wasteland, and saplings grow vanilla trees, not massive style trees, so they don't really work,
 
MaximusStark said:
I'm not a big pvper, but I see everything on here talking about massive restore. people like to build, that requires materials, and makes the terrain nearby look horrid, give it a month after you build and the nearby terrain looks great. you don't want a majestic castle in a wasteland, and saplings grow vanilla trees, not massive style trees, so they don't really work,
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Im not really following you?
 
pokyug said:
I'm all for this, but given the history with flywater. "Pvpers" are going to whine and complain about not being able to catchup with the archer, and ask for its removal. Just like Flywater.

It's a good idea, I want this just so I can troll :)
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Except you can pearl on them and 3-4 hit them. Can't do that with flywater. And they only run 20% faster than you for the majority of the time.
 
pokyug said:
I'm all for this, but given the history with flywater. "Pvpers" are going to whine and complain about not being able to catchup with the archer, and ask for its removal. Just like Flywater.

It's a good idea, I want this just so I can troll :)
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Flywater was much much much much much much much much much much much much worse than what the speed 3 would be in pvp.
All praise the AVA @Neckerei
 
pokyug said:
Flyspeed is 10m/second, a player with speed 3 and sprinting goes about 8.3m/second. Also, if your chasing a player with speed3 and you have speed 2. The player has 1 second of reaction time and another second to get out of your range. Given the speed a player is running at speed3 and you learn I top of someone and get in 3-4 hits, then your legit hacking. Given 2m/second advantage a player gets going speed 3 vs a speed 2 player. You can only legitimately get 2 hits in before a the guy with speed3 gets out of range.
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*you're
 
pokyug said:
Flyspeed is 10m/second, a player with speed 3 and sprinting goes about 8.3m/second. Also, if your chasing a player with speed3 and you have speed 2. The player has 1 second of reaction time and another second to get out of your range. Given the speed a player is running at speed3 and you learn I top of someone and get in 3-4 hits, then your legit hacking. Given 2m/second advantage a player gets going speed 3 vs a speed 2 player. You can only legitimately get 2 hits in before a the guy with speed3 gets out of range.
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I don't think you normally run 10 blocks per second with speed 2? :P
 
pokyug said:
I'm all for this, but given the history with flywater. "Pvpers" are going to whine and complain about not being able to catchup with the archer, and ask for its removal. Just like Flywater.

It's a good idea, I want this just so I can troll :)
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People whined because flywater was OP, no offense but if you cannot understand why flywater was actually OP you just don't know how PvP works. FlyWater was stupid because a fully geared diamond guy could escape fights in seconds and it only costed 50 points. This system requires you to give up buffs like diamond armor and being able to fight up close with abilities that allow you to fight better with a bow.
 
I think we need to make a separate thread on suggesting the HCF kits.
 
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