Archived Little Poll On God Apples....

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thor5648

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If you have never pvped with god apples, if you have never used them, or you don't bother on using them, please just ignore the poll and don't vote yes/no.

DISCLAIMER: I HATE PVPING WITH GOD APPLES, I ONLY WANT THEM TO BE RENABLED BECAUSE I FORSEE THIS CHANGE COULD CAUSE AN INCREASE IN PVP, AND ALSO AN INCREASE IN THE ECONOMY….



This is just a poll, I want to see some opinion, please read the below section before voting...

So recently there was some talk about what if god apples were to be renabled.... What would the outcome be?

Basically the way I see it is like this.. Currently for big name pvpers there is little to do on MassiveCraft, it is almost as if I have reached an end game, I have built everything I needed to, I have awesome facilities, and well frankly there are only a few factions on the server who will actually come out if I raid them.... Not to mention these factions are slowly dying away due to similar situations... One thing I thought about when trying to concieve solutions to this problem were: two years ago tons of factions fought, but all of a sudden people stopped pvping because they kept dying because they had no chance against skilled pvpers, even with all their god armor and potions, I feel as though if golden apples were to be enabled, (With Some obvious nerfs) this could help out people like me, and maybe even some LESS skilled pvpers, it could give them an opportunity to actually compete with big name pvpers, and give them a chance at defending their base.



Benefits of Renabling:

*Gold prices go up

*Armor breaks easier, armor prices go up

*A high chance of more pvp and pvp being more open to people who are not as skilled at it

*More variety to pvp



Cons of adding gold apples back:

  • They can be considered "OP"
  • The richest win
  • Some people do not like pvping with them


Solutions to these cons:

  • Nerfing god apples by cool downs
  • Well the second one is already in place, where as the richest win, if anything this will just help the economy and make it so these items are hard for even the rich to obtain
  • If nerfed right, you do not have to take god apples, you ca simply avoid fights with them (See below)


Nerfs needed if they were to be added:

  • I personally suggest a 4 minute cool down, (Much like the ender pearl cool down) before the ability to eat a god apple comes back, this way people can not constantly chug god apples, and have it so if someone does not want to deal with god apples, they can simply run away from a fight, pearl out, and come back 30 seconds later and fight like the god apple was never there.
 
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Like you said about the cons. They could be considered OP, and the rich would win. This would give premiums even MORE PvP power than they already have. AND, non premiums would be squashed, premiums would always win against them. Unless the premium is just extremely bad. But, the gold prices going up, and armor prices would be a good addition. I would vote yes and no, but there isn't an option for that :P If normal gold apples were buffed, then I would say yes. But god apples replace 5 potions! One of them you can't even brew. I'd still say no, but a buffed version of normal golden apples would be perfect.
 
CaveSpider101 said:
Like you said about the cons. They could be considered OP, and the rich would win. This would give premiums even MORE PvP power than they already have. AND, non premiums would be squashed, premiums would always win against them. Unless the premium is just extremely bad. But, the gold prices going up, and armor prices would be a good addition. I would vote yes and no, but there isn't an option for that :P If normal gold apples were buffed, then I would say yes. But god apples replace 5 potions! One of them you can't even brew. I'd still say no, but a buffed version of normal golden apples would be perfect.
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If anything it would help non premiums survive in pvp, if you were to catch a premium without a gapple and you had one and had decent pvp skill, you would most likely actually win.
 
CaveSpider101 said:
Like you said about the cons. They could be considered OP, and the rich would win. This would give premiums even MORE PvP power than they already have. AND, non premiums would be squashed, premiums would always win against them. Unless the premium is just extremely bad. But, the gold prices going up, and armor prices would be a good addition. I would vote yes and no, but there isn't an option for that :P If normal gold apples were buffed, then I would say yes. But god apples replace 5 potions! One of them you can't even brew. I'd still say no, but a buffed version of normal golden apples would be perfect.
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non-prems and prems will always be different, prem is meant to give more power to the player. With god apples, the margain between these 2 will actually be less wide. if anything it gives the nonprem MORE PvP power.
 
CaveSpider101 said:
Like you said about the cons. They could be considered OP, and the rich would win. This would give premiums even MORE PvP power than they already have. AND, non premiums would be squashed, premiums would always win against them. Unless the premium is just extremely bad. But, the gold prices going up, and armor prices would be a good addition. I would vote yes and no, but there isn't an option for that :P If normal gold apples were buffed, then I would say yes. But god apples replace 5 potions! One of them you can't even brew. I'd still say no, but a buffed version of normal golden apples would be perfect.
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Does it really matter? I have never seen a Non-Premium actually go out and PvP anyways, so it doesn't effect them.
Premiums will always win 99/100 of the time just due to how many buffs they get.
If I actually saw Non-Premiums try to defend their own factions I would have a different opinion.

@thor5648 @Shaneski101
 
As a merchant, I want it. As a pvper, I don't want it.
This is a difficult decision. Eating a God apple is literally like pushing a win button. The nerf you suggested would result in the community developing apple preservation techniques. In that case, whoever eats the god apple and corners their opponent wins. Or maybe whoever eats the god apple last wins.

But now that I think about it, the God apple is more suited as an escape tool. It's like the perfect defense because of how quickly you regenerate health with it on. If you use it along with the ender pearl, you can successfully escape any dangerous situation regardless. Thus the pvp community would be riddled with easily escaping cowards rather than PvPers focused on defeating the enemy. After all, the gold apple is more focused on helping the user survive. If it was more focused on helping to hinder the enemy's survival, then It might have more chance of being approved in my opinion.
 
Laach said:
As a merchant, I want it. As a pvper, I don't want it.
This is a difficult decision. Eating a God apple is literally like pushing a win button. The nerf you suggested would result in the community developing apple preservation techniques. In that case, whoever eats the god apple and corners their opponent wins. Or maybe whoever eats the god apple last wins.

But now that I think about it, the God apple is more suited as an escape tool. It's like the perfect defense because of how quickly you regenerate health with it on. If you use it along with the ender pearl, you can successfully escape any dangerous situation regardless. Thus the pvp community would be riddled with easily escaping cowards rather than PvPers focused on defeating the enemy. After all, the gold apple is more focused on helping the user survive. If it was more focused on helping to hinder the enemy's survival, then It might have more chance of being approved in my opinion.
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Eventually the Gapple will run out, so even then they will die / their armor will shatter. Also, that would be one expensive escape.
 
BenRekt said:
Eventually the Gapple will run out, so even then they will die / their armor will shatter. Also, that would be one expensive escape.
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Their armor will shatter? Am I missing something? Does armor break easier after eating a Golden Apple?
Well, anyway. An expensive escape is better than an expensive loss.
 
Laach said:
Their armor will shatter? Am I missing something? Does armor break easier after eating a Golden Apple?
Well, anyway. An expensive escape is better than an expensive loss.
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Gapples give the resistance effect which lowers the damage to the player but increases the damage done to armor. Therefor allowing armor to break quicker
 
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I've pvped on a few servers with these, and I'm not so good, but economy wise its good, and pvpwise it could make the tide of a raid turn in an instance, so yes
 
I'll change my opinion from before. Not by that much. The god apple's use in PvP can be used as an escape, or as an extreme buff for all players. Premiums can still use this, which betters their PvP load out as well as non premiums. The margin stays the same, seeing as both of them can use it unless you consider that the premium has potentially more income, may it be from selling items through more publicity than non premiums, their monthly 750r, PvP, or anything, they usually have more money. In this case, even if a non premium was to mine all the gold to make one, or get enough money to get one, they wouldn't have a large amount. Premiums could have larger amounts potentially. It would help the economy by offering high income for the ones who sell the god apples, but take away large portions from others, which can be earned back through PvP. Armor is also a problem, because if an experienced PvPer used one, the resistance buff makes their armor break quicker. This would make them have to bring multiple armor sets, presumably all god pieces, which would cost them immense amounts of money, premium or not. God apples would offer a potential unfair advantage to those lucky enough to get more regals than others. This would make PvP very one sided, and if you brought a few into PvP with you, which again, requires a few sets of armor, and 216 gold ingots, and were able to use one before you died, you would be unstoppable for the next 30 seconds, and longer depending on how many combatants you were facing. Even though I don't have great experience with PvP, or use god apples that much, I think that my argument is pretty solid. Using them would provide great economic boosts, which for non PvPers would be a buff, but it would change the PvP tactics of a lot of people. Archers, as an example, especially would gain a lot from this, because they output lots of damage, and only take damage back from other archers. The little damage they take, if taken enough without moving to cover or healing potions can be multiplied by how many other archers he/she is facing. If they got to the point where they were about to die, and didn't have cover, they could use one to quickly regen health, and provide a shield for a couple minutes. Even during this their armor doesn't take much damage. This would make archery an extremely widespread tactic, and could, based on players decisions, change PvP to more of a firefight with bows. Long, drawn out firefights. And again that doesn't take in the variable of those who may not be able to make or afford a god apple, who in that case would be running around the field trying to come close to the archers for melee, but would be shot down before they could make it 20 steps out of the safe zone. You say I should reread the subject, and I have, but this is just my opinion.
 
Shaneski101 said:
non-prems and prems will always be different, prem is meant to give more power to the player. With god apples, the margain between these 2 will actually be less wide. if anything it gives the nonprem MORE PvP power.
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The non premium would have more power in PvP, but premiums would too.
 
CaveSpider101 said:
The non premium would have more power in PvP, but premiums would too.
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Applying your logic, we might as well not allow people to have god armor and god weapons. Because by application of your logic, premiums, "the richer players" can get these items just as easy. And it's true. If I donate for one month, and get 750 regals, I can buy a set of armor for 400 regals, and 1-2 god axes with the 350 regals I have left over.
 
tbh, no. I remember when we had 'em and both the non-pvpers and the pvpers wanted them gone (not all the pvpers mind you, but enough). They were removed for a reason, though I honestly can't remember what it was lol
 
Mecharic said:
tbh, no. I remember when we had 'em and both the non-pvpers and the pvpers wanted them gone (not all the pvpers mind you, but enough). They were removed for a reason, though I honestly can't remember what it was lol
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They were removed a long time ago because they were very strong in that meta. For example, there were no traits back then, and there are now. The meta has changed, and god apples may act different in this one versus the old one. It's worth taking a look at though. It's never any fun to have to disable an item rather than work with it.
 
Alj23 said:
Applying your logic, we might as well not allow people to have god armor and god weapons. Because by application of your logic, premiums, "the richer players" can get these items just as easy. And it's true. If I donate for one month, and get 750 regals, I can buy a set of armor for 400 regals, and 1-2 god axes with the 350 regals I have left over.
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Just as you are saying with the "New Meta," I think that god armor and weapons are enough. Besides, you can get the same potion effects from 4 different potions minus saturation (Unless there is a potion for that, in which case I'd be incorrect.) God apples are too meta in that respect. They condense too much power into one consumable. To the god armor and weapons extent, the meta is completely fine now. If and when new and more powerful traits are introduced, and if they are introduced to non premiums, the meta will yet again extend. In which case, a while from now we will need god apples to compensate for the power creep (Power creep, if you didn't know, is when things become powerful, and in which case, other more easily obtainable assets need to be more powerful as well, resulting in an infinite loop of overwhelming damage.) If Massive is ambitious enough to introduce more traits which give the meta a new margin, god apples will be a need instead of a want. That said, if the meta does become that large, it would take a LONG time. I'm guessing months, if not a year from now. All of the people who want god apples back might just have to wait for a while. And who cares? If you're a dedicated player of Massivecraft, which I'm sure you PvPers are, you should have no problem waiting for god apples. If Massive does create new traits, then the meta grows. When the meta grows large enough, we might need god apples. That's a big might. In that case, you'd have to wait for the staff members to decide what level of meta is acceptable. Thanks for understanding my argument.
 
All I'm going to say is, they were disabled for a reason, and I very much remember why.
I'd love to see someone test MassiveCraft's trait plugin with God Armor, God weapons and God apples, and tell me that improves and balances PVP.
 
Alj23 said:
They were removed a long time ago because they were very strong in that meta. For example, there were no traits back then, and there are now. The meta has changed, and god apples may act different in this one versus the old one. It's worth taking a look at though. It's never any fun to have to disable an item rather than work with it.
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Point made and Taken :)

Worst case scenario you remove it again, rig- *server explodes*
 
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