Archived Kell's Vision: Peacfull Worlds

[Kellock93]

Hey there,

here goes suggestion No.1, although it is actually in Phase 2. If you have no clue what I am talking about, take a look here.

Now then before you ask, this idea is not about giving factions the possibility to turn on their peaceful flag. It is about splitting the survival worlds into PVP and PVE worlds. You wonder why?

To destroy PVP ofc .... well at least that is what some people will say. But instead, it is the exact opposite, over the years the Survival community has slowly decreased for various reasons. One of them being forcing people that want to participate in Survival also having to participate in PVP if they want or not, leading to people losing interest because they simply had no interest in PVP and the restrictions it imposed on their gameplay.

But simply splitting them is not enough, both kinds of Worlds need a purpose so here are the differences:

PVE-World:

• Positive:
  • Only PVE
  • Full access to MassiveMagic
  • MassiveEnviroment (see below)
• Neutral:
  • Stricter Building rules (This is purely personal preference from my side to foster new builders and make the cities more attractive for players to look at)
• Negative:
  • Higher Faction Upkeep Tax (while not having a claim in PVP Worlds)
  • Low resources (iron, gold, etc. )

PVP-World:

• Positive:
  • Normal Ressources
  • Lax Building Rules
  • TerritorialControl (More on that later, "The way to make people surrender")
• Negative:
  • Limited MassiveMagic (For Balance reasons)
  • TerritorialControl (You can be conquered)

New Features:

• MassiveEnviroment:
  • Gives Players the ability to turn off MassiveRestore for certain chunks outside the faction claim so for example roads can be built. The only catch, everyone can turn it on or off to prevent abuse. To limit trolling a function could be built in that shows the persons that used the command on certain chunks.
• TerritorialControl:
  • Will be explained in another post, in short, a reason to fight and ally others

This would give both worlds a purpose, PVP-Worlds would be for fighting and resources. The PVE-Worlds would be for building and creating communities, as well as a way to reintroduce RP into Survival Worlds. But the overall goal is to cater to different Survival-Styles and increase the player count which in the long run will also benefit the PVP Community by giving them a player base to draw new PVPers from.

My suggestion would be Teled Methen and Hyarroc become PVE-Worlds, simply because according from what I have heard the terrain is no Fun for PVP and on the other hand allows for good looking builds as the terrain is more interesting. All other Worlds should stay PVP Worlds.

 

[Conflee]

Op has stated multiple times now that this will hurt the pvp community, and has implied that it was intended to do this, so I'm pretty sure you're actually the only one who agrees with that. Point is, yeah sure you'll get raided occasionally, but it's so diluted you'll be raided, what, like every couple months? Of course, from the looks of it you're in a storage faction and I don't think I've ever seen you in the survival worlds, so how would you know?

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If you cant detect obvious sarcasm.... then... Well.

 

[Conflee]

it makes you sound like a 3rd grader.

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Your entire bit makes you sound like one as well. Just heads up ;3

EDIT:

I really don't care what you think, based on past experiences with you, you have every intent to hurt the pvp community, for reasons unbeknownst to me. And of course I'm being hostile, OP is literally stating that the suggestion will hurt the pvp community, and completely ignoring that.

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Also to address this, I dont want to hurt PVP. I just dont want people who dont want to PVP to be forced into it. I would love for the PVP community to grow and be stable so it can stop ripping on RP and any non-PVP based ideas already.

 

[65jes89]

Your entire bit makes you sound like one as well. Just heads up ;3

EDIT:

Also to address this, I dont want to hurt PVP. I just dont want people who dont want to PVP to be forced into it. I would love for the PVP community to grow and be stable so it can stop ripping on RP and any non-PVP based ideas already.

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Want to give some examples as to what ideas we're ripping on exactly?... This one obviously, but it directly affects us, so I don't think you have any argument to say we can't have an opinion on this.

 

[Zacatero]

Also to address this, I dont want to hurt PVP. I just dont want people who dont want to PVP to be forced into it. I would love for the PVP community to grow and be stable so it can stop ripping on RP and any non-PVP based ideas already.

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Thats like saying roleplayers arent allowed to voice opposition if we suggest the wiki be deleted.

 

[Conflee]

Thats like saying roleplayers arent allowed to voice opposition if we suggest the wiki be deleted.

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They arent deleting the PVP worlds. They are adding PVE ones.

That would be like Roleplayers gripping about a PVP/Survival Wiki being added. Which we didnt- I actually supported that suggestion.

 

[Zacatero]

They arent deleting the PVP worlds. They are adding PVE ones.

That would be like Roleplayers gripping about a PVP/Survival Wiki being added. Which we didnt- I actually supported that suggestion.

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But that doesnt effect you. This effects us because people would much prefer that PvE world to build. Therefore removing the pvp from the survival worlds

 

[Kaezir]

While it isnt terrible in concept, I dont like it putely because it'll split communities. Since it is peaceful I see several roleplayers leaving Regalia to make their own place. And anyone who doesnt want to deal with PvP in our already beautiful survival worlds will leave for there too.

While it is important to help people play how they want, we have to keep in mind there are several people already comprimising for the amazing features we offer.

 

[Conflee]

I like the idea, honestly, and I want it to work. Iv been playing devil's advocate here mostly though. @ The people who get super salty over me, thats what I do in all these threads. I know the outcry against literally anything changing the Survival worlds to make it more friendly or better for more passive players get spammed to void. So I always pop in to defend the points.


Either way beyond that, I do like the idea perhaps of having some PVE areas, maybe not full worlds, but perhaps a new world could be made with a large PVE area in the center where play is normal, but claiming and PVP is disabled. Then in the center of that area, there would be a protected PVE dungeon. So there is a distinct safe area to gather some resources for people who just want to build. And a draw in the center to add another RPG element to survival.

 

[Pilotos]

(Alright this is a ramble and I'm kind of randomly appearing on this thread, but here goes.)​

So I think anyone on the server has the potential to, run and defend a faction while rping. However, I don't understand why people think that pvp is not worth it in survival. It's also unfair to say that survival is owned by pvp, because you already have an option to whether you can pvp or not. People who raid factions pvp in survival because in the kitpvp world, there is no consequence or should I say realism in the fighting. Koth is fun too, but there isn't a risk involved. The main attraction of every survival world is that you have the opportunity to participate in competition amongst factions or on your own while both obtaining resources. You can even rp if you want to, and base your builds and factions as settlements on the respective rp continent. I don't think people dislike the faction worlds and everyone wants to improve them in some way. However, I feel that pve worlds would basically make any progress in factions feel very meaningless. Instead of people simply declaring they HAVE to fight or NEED to hide we should take a step back for a moment and compromise. First off, addressing the options we have when raiding. For the defending faction they either contest the raiders or they opt out and lock up. Most of the time if people know they won't win or simply don't feel the effort, they choose the second option, but this poses the raiding faction with a problem. Even if they make a war declaration they can't force a surrender. Essentially, there has become a disincentive for for fighting in survival. We need to reward those who choose to defend their factions or attack, while allowing factions who haven't experienced this to improve and stand their ground. Eventually, a good-to-honest competition will appear again and things will be fun for both sides. This is one of the main reasons I am in favor of a server war type scenario.
Participating factions have a chance to have fun, engage in coordinated planning and teamwork, and learn to outsmart or challenge their opponents when it comes to battles and objectives that should randomly appear. The drawbacks for losing aren't as much as when you are raided. The loss is shared and if you die a few times you learn and move forward. Winning factions get rewards, but they don't necessarily subjugate anyone.
But, this shouldn't just mean the server war should be the only time factions get to compete with each other. Raids should still occur regularly and defending and raiding factions should be granted an advantage over those who only participate in the war. I haven't thought of an exact system yet but I feel it would be a good one. Now on to pve worlds. I would not support this because it would allow the obtaining of resources without competition. People who built factions from scratch might have had to deal with a pvp encounter or two, something that just comes with survival. A pve world would eliminate this entirely and it would be a very mundane experience whether you like to pvp or not. Massivemobs might be annoying, but you can eliminate them easily through fighting or with truce traits, and with massive magic coming soon this would be so much easier. Eventually, people would just live in the pve worlds because why bother to have to compete when you can just build and deal with an occasional mob. This leaves the warring factions with no one to fight but themselves, but eventually they devolve in to organized and boring matches that get repetitive, (something that can be done at kitpvp). Then any attention towards pvp and factions is lost because of the pve worlds. Now. This doesn't mean that pve is a lost cause either. The Baneful King events were amazing, because we fought tougher mobs that progressively got harder. If there is a push for pve, then I think we can turn to the events we already have or create an unmoderated version without staff involvement in the form of something like a pay for entry gauntlet. Oh wait, that's in this other post. Pve would then be about fighting and surviving new and interesting mobs in various scenarios (with a risk and reward), something I could get behind.

 

[Alj23]

These threads are so tiring. The communities are too polarized, and think something that one person from one community proposes will always damage the other. Sometimes it's true, sometimes it's not.

I've made this point a few times, but I'll reiterate again: The situations, events, and environments you experience on MassiveCraft are purely based on player prerogative. Look at all the big wars PVPers like to use as their example of the PVP prime days. They weren't started by staff, but exclusively players. All the big and influential survival focused factions that have come along have been run by mainly your average player, not staff.

At the end of the day, the average MassiveCraft player has all the power to do and change anything they want, within reason. Obviously staff intervention is needed at times to help facilitate these changes, but even if the staff were to give PVPers every single thing we asked for, right down to a lag free PVP experience, it would still be on us to create the factions, train the soldiers, and beat the drums of war marching on to the battlefield to fight one another. Staff can't create that.

TLR Summarization: get it out there and get it done. Stuff will fall into place eventually.

 

[Conflee]

I've made this point a few times, but I'll reiterate again: The situations, events, and environments you experience on MassiveCraft are purely based on player prerogative. Look at all the big wars PVPers like to use as their example of the PVP prime days. They weren't started by staff, but exclusively players. All the big and influential survival focused factions that have come along have been run by mainly your average player, not staff.

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THIS 100% .

 

[VANBROWN]

Your failing to acknowledge the point that, if the players who would be moving to PVE dont PVP at all as it is, this will have exactly 0 effect on PVPers unless, contrary to what they always claim in these posts- and the mountain of times they have contradicted themselves on this point-, they actually DO just want uninterested un-geared players to mow down randomly.

Unless that is your goal, killing randoms, then this change should have exactly 0 effect on PVP. And if that is your goal, screw you and I say add PVE.

The only change is literally less random people who dont pvp or interact with you anyway dotted around.


Also the fact that your being so hostile in this basically makes me discount every point you've made, good or bad. So. GG


EDIT: Also he was World Staff im pretty sure, so he had little to no sway in that regard anyway. Fail.

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Again, being toxic won't help the server. Cooperation is the core of this all. WE NEED TO BRING MASSIVE A STEP FURTHER. By the way, the guy was world 3. If you don't know what worlds 3 do please get informed.

 

[65jes89]

PVP is currently dominated by the established PVP'ers. They have the high MCMMO-levels

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Mcmmo actually has little to nothing to do with pvp at this point due to nerfs which were pushed for predominantly by pvpers.

 

[Conflee]

Again, being toxic won't help the server. Cooperation is the core of this all. WE NEED TO BRING MASSIVE A STEP FURTHER. By the way, the guy was world 3. If you don't know what worlds 3 do please get informed.

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Read what the guy said prior and you will understand why I got a bit salty. He was being a jerk first. Granted, that doesnt excuse me, but at least read up before assuming I was the one bringing the salt.

Also, World 3 is a builder. Has no say in survival affairs at all. That would be Game your looking for.

do please get informed.

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[VANBROWN]

(Sorry, @jes_ I was writing too fast. It wasn't everything I wanted to typ.)

PVP is currently dominated by the established PVP'ers. That's a group of maximum 30 players.
The big question is; is the way PVP goes now, the right way? I'd say no. Why?

• Players raid each other over-and-over again.
• It's one-way traffic. The established players raid the weak and thus newer people or the people that just want to build/RP.
• There are less and less players in Survival. So the pond of fish from which the PVP'ers can choose to catch (raid) is decreasing by the day.

The big question now is, what caused these three things? I think the main cause is that the server itself, staff, let the faction-world a bit the way it is. They didn't hold survival back. They focused more on RP (you can say what you like. Perhaps you tried to do something within the survival worlds to make it better, but for the non-staff members point of view you did do less than for the RP'ers).

How could it be fun to raid each other every single time again? There is no one else to raid. When a faction gets active, with a lot of people, you get raided every single time until you give up and eventually you just surrender so you can ... build. Lately, I experienced this when I was leader of Batavia. I got raided every single time by the good factions. People started to leave from my faction cause they were dying too many times. At the end I just gave up with Batavia and it got sold (of course, I could make an underground base, but I don't think we want that for the architectonical style of the server).

For new players PVP is confusing. So is survival. "Oh my base got unclaimed?! Why? -> "You needed to claim and start a faction..". That's something I've heard quite a lot of times already. Another frequent question heard; "Do you need traits or do you need MCMMO to be good in PVP?" It's quite confusing.
I've been playing about 3,5 years on this server. I'm around the 13k with MCMMO. I've been playing quite a bit. How can a new player participate in PVP if MCMMO takes ages to grind? The world nowadays is fast. People don't want to slow down. If it's taking too long, they will just join another server or player another game. PVP is unfair.

Then there is the one-way traffic point. The experienced PVP'ers raid the new and weaker people constantly. The only way to get rid of it is by surrender or joining a strong faction yourself. When you're new you don't want to spend your hard earned few money on surrendering and a lot of people want to experience having a faction theirselves. So eventually they just flee to safe-heaven Regalia or quit the server. Not sure how to change this, but the system perhaps should be changed. Server-wise.

Less and less players in survival. Read above for some reasons. Here comes the point that there has to be done something. The way it goes now is not the right one. If we stick to the system we have now, nothing will be better. The number of PVP'ers/people in survival will decrease slowly.

There should be a rigorous change. Not sure which one(s), perhaps the one Kellock or others mentioned, but there has to happen something. I know change is new and thus scary, but it often leads to something better. As long the decisions are being taken by capable people.

I know people have been suggesting things in the past, but it got never implemented. Probably because it all erupted in flaming and arguing instead of a consensus. Let's try to have one now. It's the best for Massivecraft.

 

[VANBROWN]

Read what the guy said prior and you will understand why I got a bit salty. He was being a jerk first. Granted, that doesnt excuse me, but at least read up before assuming I was the one bringing the salt.

Also, World 3 is a builder. Has no say in survival affairs at all. That would be Game your looking for.

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What does being salty help? He will be salty, you will react.. until staff locks this thread and then what you reached? We are not in PVP here, Kellock and everyone in here wants to help this server. We need to reach a consensus. His ideas might not be all good, but combined with others it could work out.

 

[Conflee]

What does being salty help? He will be salty, you will react.. until staff locks this thread and then what you reached? We are not in PVP here, Kellock and everyone in here wants to help this server. We need to reach a consensus. His ideas might not be all good, but combined with others it could work out.

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thats why iv been ignoring him now lol. But, other than that. Iv tried pitching a couple ideas, mainly an idea further up about a new world with a PVE area in the center and a protected area with a dungeon in the center of THAT. A sort of compromise if you will- a safe area for people to gather some resources for the more passive players, but they still have to go into the PVP area to claim and make a lasting base. And then a dungeon to add an RPG element and draw in PVE, RP, and PVPers alike. Because loot and such.


Similar to how Survival Players and PVPers go to the PVE events in the Event world. Except a constant area.

 

[Knyxo]

thats why iv been ignoring him now lol. But, other than that. Iv tried pitching a couple ideas, mainly an idea further up about a new world with a PVE area in the center and a protected area with a dungeon in the center of THAT. A sort of compromise if you will- a safe area for people to gather some resources for the more passive players, but they still have to go into the PVP area to claim and make a lasting base. And then a dungeon to add an RPG element and draw in PVE, RP, and PVPers alike. Because loot and such.


Similar to how Survival Players and PVPers go to the PVE events in the Event world. Except a constant area.

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OK, this I can get behind. Way more acceptable then separate worlds. The PvE dungeon thing would be a nice alternative to having a spawn town in the center of every world that nobody really makes use of, lol.

 

[Kellock93]

And I am back, now before this escalates further and we have more people claiming this idea was only created to kill the PVP community let's all take a step back and take a look at the possible outcomes created by the split.

What is the goal?

• Creating a survival world where people are not forced to participate in PVP, they still can do so by simply heading to the PVP worlds
• Giving players that don't prefer one playstyle a reason to head to the PVP worlds by having lower taxes and normal resources, while removing "precious" resources from the PVE worlds to make them less attractive
  
• Attracting new and old faction players from both the PVP/ Survival and RP side to grow the overall Survival and the general player base by offering a new experience for people

What are the possible Outcomes, when the PVE worlds get implemented?

• Less player's in the PVP and RP worlds, at least at first, a lot of the people that changed will most likely return to their old playstyle sooner or later, or simply split up their time between them
  
• Splitting up 2 communities in 3, although this 3rd community would be a mixture of the 2 others so if anything a hybrid
• More new player's that like to play survival but not so much PVP or are not content with the strict Rule enforcement in Regalia

I am pretty sure I forgot some things so feel free to mention them.

Now then, there are some points I probably should address.

• "Kellock93 is trying to kill PVP because with this no one will want to play in the PVP worlds anymore"

If what is stated above is true, then it simply shows how I don't even need to try to kill PVP, or rather your form of PVP.

You already did that yourself, if no one wants to participate in PVP anymore and would, as mentioned multiple times above, move to these PVE worlds as soon as they get released ..... Well, then it only shows that players don't enjoy PVP the way it is now. Leading to slowly declining player count we have seen for a long time. So thank you for proving my point.

And no, I don't try to kill PVP. I myself find Minecraft PVP rather dull same as for MassiveCrafts PVP, but on the other hand, I can completely agree with the people that say peaceful Faction worlds are too boring for them. I for one wouldn't even move there. I would probably build stuff in both worlds for my factions RPers and travel around to look at other people's creations but that's about it.

• "Both RPers and Survivalists will leave in mass to these new worlds and split the community even more"

Indeed, at first, there will be some players leaving the two established game modes. But only because it is the new shiny toy, that holds oh so
great promise and mysteries.

The truth is, many players will at some point return to their previous game mode, but not without making contact with players from the other side first. So yes, it might seem like a split at first glance, but in the long run, it could turn into a way to meld the communities again.

Also as I stated before, I am always happy to hear the ideas of others and find a way to make them into one we all can get behind.

For example, I like @conflicttFTW idea about a mixed world although it needs more tech work to implement and I would suggest to allow claiming in the PVE-Belt.