Archived Kell's Vision: Peacfull Worlds

[Kellock93]

Hey there,

here goes suggestion No.1, although it is actually in Phase 2. If you have no clue what I am talking about, take a look here.

Now then before you ask, this idea is not about giving factions the possibility to turn on their peaceful flag. It is about splitting the survival worlds into PVP and PVE worlds. You wonder why?

To destroy PVP ofc .... well at least that is what some people will say. But instead, it is the exact opposite, over the years the Survival community has slowly decreased for various reasons. One of them being forcing people that want to participate in Survival also having to participate in PVP if they want or not, leading to people losing interest because they simply had no interest in PVP and the restrictions it imposed on their gameplay.

But simply splitting them is not enough, both kinds of Worlds need a purpose so here are the differences:

PVE-World:

• Positive:
  • Only PVE
  • Full access to MassiveMagic
  • MassiveEnviroment (see below)
• Neutral:
  • Stricter Building rules (This is purely personal preference from my side to foster new builders and make the cities more attractive for players to look at)
• Negative:
  • Higher Faction Upkeep Tax (while not having a claim in PVP Worlds)
  • Low resources (iron, gold, etc. )

PVP-World:

• Positive:
  • Normal Ressources
  • Lax Building Rules
  • TerritorialControl (More on that later, "The way to make people surrender")
• Negative:
  • Limited MassiveMagic (For Balance reasons)
  • TerritorialControl (You can be conquered)

New Features:

• MassiveEnviroment:
  • Gives Players the ability to turn off MassiveRestore for certain chunks outside the faction claim so for example roads can be built. The only catch, everyone can turn it on or off to prevent abuse. To limit trolling a function could be built in that shows the persons that used the command on certain chunks.
• TerritorialControl:
  • Will be explained in another post, in short, a reason to fight and ally others

This would give both worlds a purpose, PVP-Worlds would be for fighting and resources. The PVE-Worlds would be for building and creating communities, as well as a way to reintroduce RP into Survival Worlds. But the overall goal is to cater to different Survival-Styles and increase the player count which in the long run will also benefit the PVP Community by giving them a player base to draw new PVPers from.

My suggestion would be Teled Methen and Hyarroc become PVE-Worlds, simply because according from what I have heard the terrain is no Fun for PVP and on the other hand allows for good looking builds as the terrain is more interesting. All other Worlds should stay PVP Worlds.

 

[65jes89]

I'm really trying to decide if this idea was created to intentionally drive pvpers from the server or not. With the exception of massive magic, this is almost the opposite of what anyone in the pvp and a large portion of the survival community wants.

 

[Kellock93]

I'm really trying to decide if this idea was created to intentionally drive pvpers from the server or not. With the exception of massive magic, this is almost the opposite of what anyone in the pvp and a large portion of the survival community wants.

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And why is that exactly ?

 

[Proudbucket]

I suspect this idea would hurt the worlds where PvP would still be on: As it is right now the PvP community is small and partially depends on people that don't PvP (either as prey for raids or as people that improve the survival experience). I think the PvP community has been fairly bad at attracting and coexisting with non PvP players and those non PvP players might migrate en mase to peaceful worlds. As such this proposal would be a dagger in the heart of an already moribund PvP community.

That being said I think the proposal could revitalize survival. People from the roleplaying community might like the possibility to build their own stuff for their adventures and an environment without raiding and PvP salt could be attractive to new players. In my opinion it would be better if the separation would technical but not physical... that is to make PvP voluntary (which is an entirely different propossal).

In any case, I should say that the core idea has been proposed before several times and it has always been rejected. That is not to say that the idea is not worth of being revisited and discussed with new arguments.

 

[Beetletoes]

I'm all for the roads thing. But I think that should be a staff request. But nah, I'm not a pvper but even I disagree with peaceful worlds.

 

[Kellock93]

I suspect this idea would hurt the worlds where PvP would still be on: As it is right now the PvP community is small and partially depends on people that don't PvP (either as prey for raids or as people that improve the survival experience). I think the PvP community has been fairly bad at attracting and coexisting with non PvP players and those non PvP players might migrate en mase to peaceful worlds. As such this proposal would be a dagger in the heart of an already moribund PvP community.

That being said I think the proposal could revitalize survival. People from the roleplaying community might like the possibility to build their own stuff for their adventures and an environment without raiding and PvP salt could be attractive to new players. In my opinion it would be better if the separation would technical but not physical... that is to make PvP voluntary (which is an entirely different propossal).

In any case, I should say that the core idea has been proposed before several times and it has always been rejected. That is not to say that the idea is not worth of being revisited and discussed with new arguments.

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The technical solution for making a faction peaceful is already implemented since ages, you can simply set a flag for that (only accessible to staff atm). It is actually being used for the world spawns. And indeed suggestions for that to be implemented were already rejected a lot of times, I think some even by myself. But that is the reason for suggesting to create peaceful worlds, not peaceful factions in a PVP world

The issue with factions being able to use that flag is that you can always switch, be it switching from one faction to another or switching the flag. Not to mention the whole issue of people in a peaceful flagged faction trolling PVPers or vice versa.

While it will indeed be a blow to PVPers because they loose their "prey", I find myself asking if that really is a bad thing?

I am sorry but would you play a game to be "prey" for some other player? I for one don't and I don't think anyone else does. If you know there is a risk and you take it that's ok, it's your choice after all. But being forced into being "prey" or spending hours of training to do something you don't care about only so you can do what you actually want to do? I would not play that kind of game and time has shown that others don't want to do that either.

It might be the infamous deathblow to the PVP community but the question is if that would be so fatal? Right now we have a lot of "Veterans" trying to take back the glorious former days, but I think we need something completely different. A new beginning.


@Beetletoes Thanks for your opinion but could you also tell us why ?

 

[65jes89]

And why is that exactly ?

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Peaceful worlds... Honestly I've written so many posts on the subject at this point I don't feel like repeating them. They've been shot down by the staff so many times it's not funny, and have received tons of criticism every time they've been mentioned.

TerritorialControl isn't wanted by anyone, including PvPers. Haven't seen a thread on it yet by you so obviously can't go into specifics, but nobody wants straight overclaiming, and it's been decided in the past that the ability to overclaim a faction and build in it temporarily would be too difficult from a tech perspective and/or would be too easily abusable.

If you want roads, honestly just make a faction and get people to donate to it and help out or whatever. But honestly, they weren't ever really used a ton in the previous worlds that had them/the couple stretches of road in Ithania right now, so I don't see a reason for it. But there definitely doesn't need to be a plugin to do it.

Frankly I think you're a bit misinformed of how the survival worlds work. This post, at least in the beginning, paints the picture that PvPers are big bullies who drive people off the server, or at least off the survival worlds. But this isn't the case at all. In Massive's current state, pretty much nobody is raided who doesn't actively participate in PvP. That's the big downfall of all these threads which talk about pvpers driving people out of survival and so suggest peaceful/PvE worlds to solve the problem. The "problem" doesn't really exist. If you don't want to be raided, you're not going to get raided. I mean, I'll ask you, when was the last time you were raided? Actually, when was the last time anyone above on this thread was raided? Because I'm pretty you haven't been raided in weeks, if not months, and even if you were I can't imagine it lasted more than 5 minutes. There's no reason to further hurt the PvP community in order to save you 5 minutes of being raided.

 

[65jes89]

The technical solution for making a faction peaceful is already implemented since ages, you can simply set a flag for that (only accessible to staff atm). It is actually being used for the world spawns. And indeed suggestions for that to be implemented were already rejected a lot of times, I think some even by myself. But that is the reason for suggesting to create peaceful worlds, not peaceful factions in a PVP world

The issue with factions being able to use that flag is that you can always switch, be it switching from one faction to another or switching the flag. Not to mention the whole issue of people in a peaceful flagged faction trolling PVPers or vice versa.

While it will indeed be a blow to PVPers because they loose their "prey", I find myself asking if that really is a bad thing?

I am sorry but would you play a game to be "prey" for some other player? I for one don't and I don't think anyone else does. If you know there is a risk and you take it that's ok, it's your choice after all. But being forced into being "prey" or spending hours of training to do something you don't care about only so you can do what you actually want to do? I would not play that kind of game and time has shown that others don't want to do that either.

It might be the infamous deathblow to the PVP community but the question is if that would be so fatal? Right now we have a lot of "Veterans" trying to take back the glorious former days, but I think we need something completely different. A new beginning.


@Beetletoes Thanks for your opinion but could you also tell us why ?

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So basically your argument is that since you don't like the way PvP works it should just be removed from the server, screw the current PvP community? Because that's really what it sounds like.

 

[Kellock93]

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All these threads you mention being shot down were indeed shot down, but they were not suggestions for peaceful worlds but rather peaceful factions, see above.

Regarding TerritorialControl, I think we are talking about different things here. I am not talking about a system with overclaiming here but rather a system where you need to hold certain positions of an enemies territory to "capture" it. But more on that in another suggestion I will try to post it this weekend.

Regarding the MassiveEnviroment it wouldn't really be a plugin rather a small expansion to MassiveRestore. But it is indeed mainly cosmetical so I will leave it at that.

Now then let's get to the main dish. First off what you are saying is extremely contradicting. First, you say there is no problem because people don't get raided anyway and then you say I try to screw the PVP community with this suggestion?

So if there are hardly any raids as you claimed just now then why is it even an issue if people live in a peaceful world? According to you, they don't get raided anyway, I am really confused here.

So basically your argument is that since you don't like the way PvP works it should just be removed from the server, screw the current PvP community? Because that's really what it sounds like.

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So what you are saying is PVP on MassiveCraft consists of raiding people that don't want to fight? Because that's really what it sounds like.

And you are right, I don't like how PVP works on the server, tbh I find it to be quite dull. But nowhere I can see anything about me trying to remove PVP, I find that statement quite funny actually since it completely undermines the one you made before.

 

[Beetletoes]

And you are right, I don't like how PVP works on the server, tbh I find it to be quite dull. But nowhere I can see anything about me trying to remove PVP, I find that statement quite funny actually since it completely undermines the one you made before.

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You mean making a pvp-less world, where I'd assume many rpers and general faction guys would flock to because of no raiding? Yeah, definitely not decreasing pvp.

 

[Kellock93]

You mean making a pvp-less world, where I'd assume many rpers and general faction guys would flock to because of no raiding? Yeah, definitely not decreasing pvp.

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While I asked for constructive criticism that doesn't seem to be your thing so I will ask you a simple question:

So for you, PVP is going after people that have no interest in PVP? Because that is exactly what you just said.

 

[Beetletoes]

While I asked for constructive criticism that doesn't seem to be your thing so I will ask you a simple question:

So for you, PVP is going after people that have no interest in PVP? Because that is exactly what you just said.

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Speaking as someone with no interest in PVP, maybe I am saying that. And maybe it's not a bad thing.

There's no reason to further hurt the PvP community in order to save you 5 minutes of being raided.

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I mean, it's really not that big a deal to non-PVPers, I think. And again, I am a non-PVPer. But to PVPers, it's what they do.

 

[Conflee]

While I asked for constructive criticism that doesn't seem to be your thing so I will ask you a simple question:

So for you, PVP is going after people that have no interest in PVP? Because that is exactly what you just said.

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To be honest not to rip on PVPers, I know a lot of them are alright people. But a lot of times the only thing that they care about is: "Will I get to kill things? " They dont care if the players are going to fight or not. They just want kills. And every time you point this out they say "oh we dont want easy kills, we want to be able to fight other people who want to fight too!"

But even if your suggestion is only going to remove the players who DONT want to fight, the response is the same. It is a bit of a logical fallacy that nobody really seems to realize. And every time it is pointed out it is simply flamed away as a "stupid roleplayer" not knowing what they are talking about, or a ton of other PVPers come in to defend their fellow' view without clarifying the innate logically fallacy of their entire stance.

 

[Kellock93]

Speaking as someone with no interest in PVP, maybe I am saying that. And maybe it's not a bad thing.

I mean, it's really not that big a deal to non-PVPers, I think. And again, I am a non-PVPer. But to PVPers, it's what they do.

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That is indeed a perfectly fine opinion, but if someone raids you, do you also fight them?

Or rather do you think you have the obligation to do so?

 

[65jes89]

Now then let's get to the main dish. First off what you are saying is extremely contradicting. First, you say there is no problem because people don't get raided anyway and then you say I try to screw the PVP community with this suggestion?

So if there are hardly any raids as you claimed just now then why is it even an issue if people live in a peaceful world? According to you, they don't get raided anyway, I am really confused here.

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Let me clarify. There is currently not a problem with being raided, because there is no motivation to raid people such as yourself, nor is there any motivator for people such as yourself to defend. However, enabling any time of peaceful mode, PVE world, whatever label you want to put on it, will permanently disable any chance of this not becoming the case, as most factions will immediately flock to these worlds because of the "victim mentality" that so many people have and have had for the last year or two.

 

[Conflee]

Let me clarify. There is currently not a problem with being raided, because there is no motivation to raid people such as yourself, nor is there any motivator for people such as yourself to defend. However, enabling any time of peaceful mode, PVE world, whatever label you want to put on it, will permanently disable any chance of this not becoming the case, as most factions will immediately flock to these worlds because of the "victim mentality" that so many people have and have had for the last year or two.

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If people dont want to raid or even have the vague risk of a raid, why make them stay in a world where that is a possibility? If they never raid, or get raided, or want to do either, they are very unlikely to do so in the near future.

And, if someone has played in PVE for a while, and wants to move over to do some PVP, they would be better equipped to do so if they have a safe base to gear up. Raiding has no real benefit as I can tell in the current system anyway, so having players have a safe world where they cant be raided will do little on that front.


I think a PVE world would have to have another allure as well though. Something unique to justify it's existence, something PVE and PVPers can get behind. Maybe dungeons with regularly spawning bosses with loot? Or something like that.

 

[Beetletoes]

That is indeed a perfectly fine opinion, but if someone raids you, do you also fight them?

Or rather do you think you have the obligation to do so?

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Yeah, I would fight them. Assuming I knew they were there, I'd go up and at least try to kill someone.

 

[Conflee]

MassiveEnviroment:

• Gives Players the ability to turn off MassiveRestore for certain chunks outside the faction claim so for example roads can be built. The only catch, everyone can turn it on or off to prevent abuse. To limit trolling a function could be built in that shows the persons that used the command on certain chunks.

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I would say adding a regal cost to toggling it would be good, with a cooldown, and a way for players to see who changed it as well as staff. So if someone notices a chunk of their road has been made regenable like 3 times by the same guy, and they havent stopped after being messaged, they can move on to reporting them for trolling.

 

[Kellock93]

Let me clarify. There is currently not a problem with being raided, because there is no motivation to raid people such as yourself, nor is there any motivator for people such as yourself to defend. However, enabling any time of peaceful mode, PVE world, whatever label you want to put on it, will permanently disable any chance of this not becoming the case, as most factions will immediately flock to these worlds because of the "victim mentality" that so many people have and have had for the last year or two.

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Now we are talking.

But wouldn't it be better to actually motivate people to PVP instead to force it on them? You say it will destroy the chance, I, on the other hand, say it will do the exact opposite. Without the "annoyance" factor that is PVP for some people and maybe lower entry bars you would have people that don't care about it either way stay in the peaceful worlds while you have the chance of Casuals that start to battle for the fun of it and recruiting people from that "peaceful" player pool by showing them how fun PVP is.

 

[65jes89]

Now we are talking.

But wouldn't it be better to actually motivate people to PVP instead to force it on them? You say it will destroy the chance, I, on the other hand, say it will do the exact opposite. Without the "annoyance" factor that is PVP for some people and maybe lower entry bars you would have people that don't care about it either way stay in the peaceful worlds while you have the chance of Casuals that start to battle for the fun of it and recruiting people from that "peaceful" player pool by showing them how fun PVP is.

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I fail to see how peaceful worlds would lower the entry bar, nor why something would suddenly change to cause people to start joining in pvp.

 

[BenRekt]

All this would do is further divide the server and put the final nail in the coffin for the dying PvP community

 

[BenRekt]

Also, what you're basically asking for is a "survival" world where survival isn't actually a factor, considering the fact that massivemobs are basically just an annoyance at this point. I think you might as well just go play in the creative plot world.

 

[Kellock93]

I fail to see how peaceful worlds would lower the entry bar, nor why something would suddenly change to cause people to start joining in pvp.

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Sorry bad wording by me, I am not talking about the worlds. I meant the entry bar in general being lower, you know less grinding and such, to at least be able to put up a half decent fight with less effort for the player.

And of course that will not suddenly lead to people joining PVP again, what this could lead to is a growth in Survival players overall of which some in turn could start to PVP.

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That are some nice ideas indeed, I am not sure if they are viable from a staff perspective but they are nice additions to the original idea.

@Beetletoes Then you are exactly the kind of player the faction worlds need more off. Because if there were more people with the same mindset we wouldn't have to have this discussion in the first place

@BenRekt Noted, although I can't say that I agree for example building in creative is more fun, but actually finishing it in survival gives you a way bigger feeling of achievement. At least in my opinion

 

[Ellimairy]

Hi. Lets put Elli in here. Cause the Pvp community loooves me. Hi guys. X

So, I would agree with the Idea kell proposed. Seeing it has some benefits.

It would indeed up the number of people in survival worlds, because now Rp'ers and even PvPerz can now spend time on building without any harm done to them. With the seperation of worlds, the PvP ers could still have fights with others that like to pvp and have a surival worlds booming for building, rping etc.

It isn"t really forcing the last nail in the coffin, because the PvP'ers are now foghting those that are interested in fighting aswell. If you say thaf deviding this world is unfair, think about that Rp'ers that spend most of their time in regalia sometimes need storage etc, gather materials. They are now forced to be expecting a possible raid. Now if Pvpers come to regalia because they own a house there, they aren't forced to rp. So deviding of worlds would mean a certain idea of safety for the nonpvp'ers whilst the pvpers could fight the remaining factiins which also like to pvp

Ofcourse this will put a dent in the income for the pvp factions, but they now have a real "opposition" to attack. Instead of the builder that has no skills in fighting, not saying that this is the only thing that you do, but I just used that as an example.

 

[BenRekt]

Cause the Pvp community loooves me.

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<3

 

[Knyxo]

I like the MassiveEnvironment thing. Would be a really nice thing to have in all the worlds if it's something that has time to be implemented.

Um, I really don't think separating the survival worlds into two types would be a good thing I'm afraid. I might be wrong, but I don't suspect all that many people would start playing in the PvE worlds that don't already play in the current survival worlds. And I say that because being raided as a non-Pvper nowadays is very unlikely, especially if you're a small faction. If you're a big mega faction with like 50+ people and 5 or more on at all times, then yeah you'll be the target for a raid every now and then. But as just a lone player or a small group of 10 or less that keeps to yourself just building or whatever, nobody really bothers you. I do a fair bit of building myself and I'd say it's been 3 years probably since I've had any issues with raiders while doing so.

But more importantly, there's the negative effects it would have on the already small PvP community. This whole thing with splitting communities up is dicey. RP and Survival are already very clearly split up. Regalia not being player run and not utilizing any ingame mechanics other than the chat bar, all topped off by the fact the that nothing that occurs in the survival worlds is considered as canon to the lore, pretty much isolates pure survival players from having anything to do with the other part of the server. It creates a 'them and us' menality that has really degraded the server's community a lot, and also made the gameplay more stale. And I don't feel like splitting survival up even further so that there would then be 3 distinct communities would help. This is just my personal opinion though. I personally enjoyed the server most during my first 8 months on the server, because during that time, it felt like every faction had a couple Pvpers in it, every faction had some roleplay going on in it(rather than everyone running off to Regalia), every faction had some lore background, every faction built awesome stuff, every faction legitimately cared for their allies and wanted to take down their enemies, every faction had actual meaningful faction titles and names instead of memes, etc.. Essentially, the server felt WAY less divided into it's own little communities like it is now. I preferred it that way, and dislike the idea of it going further down the path it has already gone down. Does that make sense? I don't hate the PvE world idea but I really do think it would make things worse if anything.

I'd like to see your other ideas you haven't posted yet though.

 

[Zacatero]

lol am i cant believe there are still people who cant see that whatever PVP Massive still has clearly doesnt work, and perhaps maybe a change that would finally kill whatever is left and let us start fresh might not be a bad thing. Is there anybody on the PVP side that can see that?

 

[Knyxo]

lol am i cant believe there are still people who cant see that whatever PVP Massive still has clearly doesnt work, and perhaps maybe a change that would finally kill whatever is left and let us start fresh might not be a bad thing. Is there anybody on the PVP side that can see that?

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Vanilla PvP with spammable absorption potions isn't riveting gameplay? Only 30 or so people have fun doing it? Never would have guessed. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Conflee]

But more importantly, there's the negative effects it would have on the already small PvP community. This whole thing with splitting communities up is dicey.

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My Prior stuff:

Spoiler: Stuff

If people dont want to raid or even have the vague risk of a raid, why make them stay in a world where that is a possibility? If they never raid, or get raided, or want to do either, they are very unlikely to do so in the near future.

And, if someone has played in PVE for a while, and wants to move over to do some PVP, they would be better equipped to do so if they have a safe base to gear up. Raiding has no real benefit as I can tell in the current system anyway, so having players have a safe world where they cant be raided will do little on that front.


I think a PVE world would have to have another allure as well though. Something unique to justify it's existence, something PVE and PVPers can get behind. Maybe dungeons with regularly spawning bosses with loot? Or something like that.

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To be honest not to rip on PVPers, I know a lot of them are alright people. But a lot of times the only thing that they care about is: "Will I get to kill things? " They dont care if the players are going to fight or not. They just want kills. And every time you point this out they say "oh we dont want easy kills, we want to be able to fight other people who want to fight too!"

But even if your suggestion is only going to remove the players who DONT want to fight, the response is the same. It is a bit of a logical fallacy that nobody really seems to realize. And every time it is pointed out it is simply flamed away as a "stupid roleplayer" not knowing what they are talking about, or a ton of other PVPers come in to defend their fellow' view without clarifying the innate logically fallacy of their entire stance.

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If the players arent PVPing now, keeping them confined to PVP worlds wont do anything to help that, nor will giving them a non-PVP space hurt it.

 

[65jes89]

lol am i cant believe there are still people who cant see that whatever PVP Massive still has clearly doesnt work, and perhaps maybe a change that would finally kill whatever is left and let us start fresh might not be a bad thing. Is there anybody on the PVP side that can see that?

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Where do you see the whole fresh start coming from? When we're gone, it's not like anyone is going to suddenly start pvping and only raiding in ways that suit roleplayers.

 

[Zacatero]

Where do you see the whole fresh start coming from? When we're gone, it's not like anyone is going to suddenly start pvping and only raiding in ways that suit roleplayers.

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We could say the same about what can happen from any of these discussions. Because when people leave, they dont come back and that isnt unique to now.

Let me get to the point. I hear PVPers say three things more than anything else.

1) "I want PVP to be a certain way" (from the constant threads asking that things be combat tagged, to the threads demonizing entire factions for using a trait, to the annoying threads made when peaceful people evade and its suddenly a crime since the attackers couldn't win)

2) "PVP is boring! Its always the exact same people fighting!"

3) "Everybody is just in Regalia! Nobody is ever in the survival worlds anymore!"

So as you can see these kinda contradict each other. While claiming to want a more diverse PVP community, they aren't willing to make any sacrifices or adapt to what other players might want! And then they're so dumbfounded when everybody goes to Regalia or just quits! I mean i cant be the only person seeing this yall aren't idiots!!

The PVP community HAS HAS HAS to make some compromises or sacrifices in how the game can be played on Massive in order to make the survival worlds appealing to ANYBODY at all.

All this being said. I do not personally support a 100% PVP-free survival world.

 

[Knyxo]

So as you can see these kinda contradict each other. While claiming to want a more diverse PVP community, they aren't willing to make any sacrifices or adapt to what other players might want! And then they're so dumbfounded when everybody goes to Regalia or just quits! I mean i cant be the only person seeing this yall aren't idiots!!

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I mean MassiveMagic will probably make it more diverse but people are already bashing on it just because some OP mobs used it in an event, so...

My Prior stuff:
If the players arent PVPing now, keeping them confined to PVP worlds wont do anything to help that, nor will giving them a non-PVP space hurt it.

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Your opinion. I disagree. I think I did a pretty good job of explaining why I prefer an open world factions server where you can do whatever you want however you want in whatever world you want with whoever you want, over completely dividing the playerbase even more as well as effectively limiting what worlds you can play in. If people aren't PvPing, it's not like the PvPer that shows up to their faction is going to make them do it. They don't need a private world to protect them from all the PvP that they already aren't doing.

 

[Zacatero]

I mean MassiveMagic will probably make it more diverse but people are already bashing on it just because some OP mobs used it in an event, so...

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I mean i wouldn't know. I mean having 3 dozen mobs with high speed shooting magic in a room with 50+ players, its impossible for me to participate due to the lag. But clearly what staff have shown us and what the mobs have done will not necessarily be what players will be capable of. So dont base your opinions on that just yet.

 

[Kellock93]

Good morning lads, well first some replies to all of you.

Spoiler

I know "longevity" is a general term, so I'll explain it a bit. I think if you ask people why they play, especially older players like you and myself, you'll find most people stayed because they met other players and formed relationships with them because the server used to have a lot more player interaction due to the lack of a safe zone like Regalia. When you allow people to play in a PvE environment, you remove any potential meaningful player interaction because meeting someone isn't all that important if they present no threat - not to mention they have no choice over whether they want to be friendly or hostile - they are forced to be 'friendly' or at the very least just passive. The best relationships I've formed on this server are from a) people attacking me and then befriending them or b) defending random players from a threat. As I said, removing PvP removes potential alliances, enemies, etc. and in general would decrease player interaction - which is one of the reasons this server offers (more like 'offered' at this point) such a unique experience that had dedicated players always coming back for more.

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Now then regarding player interaction, you are right, this kind of interaction can not happen anymore at least not in the PVE worlds. Instead, it will be the player's obligation to make sure they establish these connections by motivating people to join up with them and work together for a certain goal. If they can't do that they will leave either way or join up with another group.

You say "bigger player base for survival" but I think even you know that's mostly a pipe dream. Nobody is going to start up in a PvE world and just suddenly decide that they would now enjoy being under threat from other players - they chose to set up in the PvE world for a reason - that is that they would not have any threat of being attacked. Survival worlds SHOULD be at least somewhat harsh, and MassiveMobs and 'PvE' is not going to offer an engaging experience besides for the occasional builder who decides to build a city and then never visits it again (as you can already see in the current survival worlds).

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Is it tough? First off what you are saying is that Survival only consists of PVP, that might be the case for you but simply expanding that opinion on the whole player base is not quite feasible.

You really need to stop to lump the PVP and Survival community together, this is not a suggestion to save PVP and it alone will surely not resurrect the PVP nor does it have to. As I said countless times by now it won't even benefit the PVP community directly. It will give people that learned through painful experience that they are not welcome to the "PVP" World the possibility to play this game mode again. What you are implying is since they don't PVP, you don't care about them, because for you the Survival worlds are all about player interaction and PVP.

Again, this suggestion is not gonna fix the shortage of PVPers. It is instead an idea to start a new community out of which some might start to PVP, not because they are forced to do it but instead because it is Fun for them to do so.

I wanted you to back up your point about how a PvE world would somehow improve and encourage a larger PvP community - because as I've just explained I don't see how anyone would think that could be the case.

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I think I anwsered that above.

Spoiler

Kellock, what you've suggested so far has all relied on a PVE world. A PVE world seems useless to me personally, i could tell you that you have some good ideas but their are so many holes in your "idea" that it seems pointless to even call it good. for one why would i play in a PVE faction world when their are zero risks and no PVP, if they did this it wouldn't just ruin the PVP community but economy and even the survival experience in general. people would have no use in buying stuff because they have no reason too their not buying things to fight, their not brewing potions, their not making armor and their surely not gonna make god gear. the survival/multiplayer experience is meant for human interaction which includes PVP. my second point is if we made a two worlds or a split as you called it Massivecraft is telling PVpers that their community is useless to them and they should just quit. If that's what the idea is then sure make a PVE world but don't even bother with a PVP world Cause you're right most roleplayers would most likely go to the PVE world to make a faction because why build a city in danger when i could coward in a no PVP world.

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Thanks for your opinion, now some questions for you.

People that don't want to fight won't be buying the things you mentioned to begin with, so that point is kinda mood.

Regarding human interaction, I think I answered that above.

Could you explain to me how making a PVE World is equal to telling PVPers they are useless?

And if you don't mind me asking why are you so fixed on RPers? I didn't mention them in a single post, most PVPers on this thread, on the other hand, are always going on about the RPers wanting to avoid Danger.

I actually have quite another bold statement for you here:

"Some RPers actually would really like to participate in the Survival worlds, but thanks to countless painful encounters, they learned that they are not welcome there"

So indeed they probably don't want to be raided and because they don't want to, they have no right to experience Survival in the way they like?

I have something to take care off I will awnser the rest of you lot later.

 

[Proudbucket]

Independently of the proposal the discussion points the problem:
- Survival is not only PvP, nor does it even need to have PvP.
- Forcing players to PvP only drives off players that are not interested on it.

 

[Kellock93]

Spoiler

I like the MassiveEnvironment thing. Would be a really nice thing to have in all the worlds if it's something that has time to be implemented.

Um, I really don't think separating the survival worlds into two types would be a good thing I'm afraid. I might be wrong, but I don't suspect all that many people would start playing in the PvE worlds that don't already play in the current survival worlds. And I say that because being raided as a non-Pvper nowadays is very unlikely, especially if you're a small faction. If you're a big mega faction with like 50+ people and 5 or more on at all times, then yeah you'll be the target for a raid every now and then. But as just a lone player or a small group of 10 or less that keeps to yourself just building or whatever, nobody really bothers you. I do a fair bit of building myself and I'd say it's been 3 years probably since I've had any issues with raiders while doing so.

But more importantly, there's the negative effects it would have on the already small PvP community. This whole thing with splitting communities up is dicey. RP and Survival are already very clearly split up. Regalia not being player run and not utilizing any ingame mechanics other than the chat bar, all topped off by the fact the that nothing that occurs in the survival worlds is considered as canon to the lore, pretty much isolates pure survival players from having anything to do with the other part of the server. It creates a 'them and us' menality that has really degraded the server's community a lot, and also made the gameplay more stale. And I don't feel like splitting survival up even further so that there would then be 3 distinct communities would help. This is just my personal opinion though. I personally enjoyed the server most during my first 8 months on the server, because during that time, it felt like every faction had a couple Pvpers in it, every faction had some roleplay going on in it(rather than everyone running off to Regalia), every faction had some lore background, every faction built awesome stuff, every faction legitimately cared for their allies and wanted to take down their enemies, every faction had actual meaningful faction titles and names instead of memes, etc.. Essentially, the server felt WAY less divided into it's own little communities like it is now. I preferred it that way, and dislike the idea of it going further down the path it has already gone down. Does that make sense? I don't hate the PvE world idea but I really do think it would make things worse if anything.

I'd like to see your other ideas you haven't posted yet though.

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First off, thank you for the time to write this up and giving feedback on the suggestion.

While I can understand where you coming from in regards to just being a small faction, then yes you hardly ever get raided and then of course none of the points I made apply to you. But I have to ask you, how much fun is it being in a small faction all the time? Are these the kind of factions that create "great" things most of the time? Are these the factions we aim to create and make up the most part of the Survival world?

I did indeed never specify that anywhere but I was mainly talking about semi-active factions with 25+ members where usually 3-5 are online.

I can not stress this enough, this thread is not exactly about PVPers "bullying" other players that don't want to PVP, it is a big part of it but that PVPers even have to do that is an even bigger one in my opinion. It rather is about the issue of players having to accept that if they even want to participate in Survival, they have to deal with that situation. What boils down to forcing people to fight when they don't want to.

The other issue you mentioned about the differences between the communities and the further fractions it will create are indeed true, but the thing is that while it is another fraction, it is simply a long overdue split to create a true PVP world. In that world, PVPers could reign as they see fit because if someone doesn't like how the PVP world is working they simply have the possibility to move to the PVE world.

In short it is not about fixing the Fractions, it is about avoiding the issue instead of having the two or rather 3 communities bash each other all the time while they are unable to find even the smallest compromise.

It will most likely damage the PVP Community more than the others, but it also could serve as a new start for them where they can finally start to develop their own community more, instead of blaming others for not having Fun and demanding them to give up their Fun in order to create more Fun for them.

 

[65jes89]

@Kellock93
What the hell is your problem with pvpers? I honestly don't get it. Your entire proposal seems to be based on pvpers being bullies who are just programmed to want to ruin everyone else's experience on the server. You've blatantly stated that it will hurt the pvp community, and frankly, I think that is the intention of this suggestion in the first place. But ffs, they are survival worlds; it's not an smp that all the youtubers play on with the sole purpose of recording videos and making money.
When was the last time you were actually raided or even inconvencied in any way by the pvp community? Because I'm pretty sure I can answer that question for you. You are an officer in valorian. Valorian is inactive, and has not been active since magnanimus went inactive. As memory serves, mag last played seriously over the summer of 2015. So, in all likelihood, it has probably been nearly two years since you were actually seriously raided. If not, maybe you were raided by some random faction who left after realizing TNT doesn't work on massive. So stop whining. Pvp is not hurting you, it is not hurting the survival community, it is not hurting the role play community; the only thing hurting anyone are your wildly incorrect beliefs and stereotypes compounded by the fact that you are no longer active in the community which you are suggesting changes to.

Thank goodness you're no longer staff and have the power to streamline such idiotic ideas.

 

[Conflee]

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Your failing to acknowledge the point that, if the players who would be moving to PVE dont PVP at all as it is, this will have exactly 0 effect on PVPers unless, contrary to what they always claim in these posts- and the mountain of times they have contradicted themselves on this point-, they actually DO just want uninterested un-geared players to mow down randomly.

Unless that is your goal, killing randoms, then this change should have exactly 0 effect on PVP. And if that is your goal, screw you and I say add PVE.

The only change is literally less random people who dont pvp or interact with you anyway dotted around.


Also the fact that your being so hostile in this basically makes me discount every point you've made, good or bad. So. GG


EDIT: Also he was World Staff im pretty sure, so he had little to no sway in that regard anyway. Fail.

 

[Zacatero]

Correct however but that's the price you have to pay for building whatever you want in the survival world, you have to play with that knowledge that you could potentially be killed at any moment. If we have a separate world where you have no chance of getting killed, who would ever want to build in the regular worlds anymore?

 

[65jes89]

New Your failing to acknowledge the point that, if the players who would be moving to PVE dont PVP at all as it is, this will have exactly 0 effect on PVPers unless, contrary to what they always claim in these posts- and the mountain of times they have contradicted themselves on this point-, they actually DO just want uninterested un-geared players to mow down randomly.

Unless that is your goal, killing randoms, then this change should have exactly 0 effect on PVP. And if that is your goal, screw you and I say add PVE.

The only change is literally less random people who dont pvp or interact with you anyway dotted around.

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Op has stated multiple times now that this will hurt the pvp community, and has implied that it was intended to do this, so I'm pretty sure you're actually the only one who agrees with that. Point is, yeah sure you'll get raided occasionally, but it's so diluted you'll be raided, what, like every couple months? Of course, from the looks of it you're in a storage faction and I don't think I've ever seen you in the survival worlds, so how would you know?

Also the fact that your being so hostile in this basically makes me discount every point you've made, good or bad. So. GG

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I really don't care what you think, based on past experiences with you, you have every intent to hurt the pvp community, for reasons unbeknownst to me. And of course I'm being hostile, OP is literally stating that the suggestion will hurt the pvp community, and completely ignoring that.

EDIT: Also he was World Staff im pretty sure, so he had little to no sway in that regard anyway. Fail.

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Still has access to staff chats and whatnot. Also, please don't say "fail," it makes you sound like a 3rd grader.