In Defense Of Vampires

[Brittlebear]

Most proponents of the Inquisition of vampires state that vampirism is a disease, and thus those with the disease need to be either cured or killed. This premise relies on the idea that vampirism is not a choice, but only a disease. Though that argument is flawed, since many who become vampires choose to do so, and as such they become 'diseased' by choice, so it is by their own free will that they take on this burden. Which begs the question, can it rightfully be called a disease if people choose to become vampires, of their own free will?

As every person chooses which god(s) to believe in, or not to believe at all, vampires who choose that life-style, act much in the same way. They have chosen to become vampires, and have chosen to live with every burden and benefit that entails. For those who have chosen to become vampires, is should not be considered a disease. A disease is an abnormal condition that affects the body of an organism, and is often used more broadly to refer to any condition that causes pain, distress, social problems or death. Vampires do take damage from sunlight, but this is a easily manageable problem, and one that they choose to have. The only way this could be considered a disease, is if those who are involved in the inquisition, will it to be so, by causing pain, distress, social problems and death upon those who are vampires. In this way, it could be said that vampirism is not in itself a disease, until set upon by the inquisition forces. And if that is the case, any race could be considered a disease if set upon by opponents to that race.

Lets discuss the implications that an inquisition against the diseased means. It is a motto of those involved in the Inquisition that vampires must be either cured or culled. Much like the Salem Witch Trails from 1962-1963, people are first supposed to be put up in front of a court of their peers and judged to determine if they are indeed a vampire, and then given the 2 options, become cured of their vampirism, or be killed. There is a flaw in this system that makes it inherently unfair to the accused. Their peers should include fellow vampires, but since vampires are sought out and given this treatment, it is impossible to ensure that the trail is fair for the accused, if they are indeed a vampire. It also follows, again paralleled with the Salem Witch Trails, that with a court filled with those opposed to vampires would apply pressure to the accused to renounce vampirism, even if they did not truly feel opposed to it, simply so that they did not get killed or tormented any longer by the general public. For those that hold their views and choose death over a cure, it only further displays that vampirism could be questioned to actually be a disease, if people choose to live with it, going so far as to die for their choice.

The other half of the motto, culled, is a curious word which I'm not sure many people using it understand it's full meaning. Culling is the process of removing breeding animals from a group based on specific criteria, such as killing the runt of a litter to ensure stronger offspring, but is broadly referred to as the selective killing of wild animals. We can assume this is meant to be an insult, to debase vampires lowering them from equal beings, to animals, and perhaps that they are little better then livestock. So should vampires be called animals? Since vampires where once human until they contracted the vampire disease, this can be likened to calling someone with leprosy little better then an animal. Or someone with any given natural disease a lesser human being because they are diseased. Perhaps even calling someone who is 'diseased' from birth, such as being crippled or mental handicapped little better then livestock. If vampirism is a disease, should they not be shown compassion to try and allow them to be cured? If vampirism is not a disease then using this term would be considered less offensive to not only vampires, but anyone with a disease.

If vampirism is a disease or disorder, such as being crippled, shouldn't vampires be treated as equals? They should be shown compassion if people truly wanted to cure them they would not show such despise and cruelty but an understanding of their disorder.

However, if vampirism is a choice, and they choose to remain the way they are, then it would be much more logical for people to feel uncomfortable or upset at their choice, rather then at the disease that has been set upon them.

Seemingly forgotten is that there is a third option, beyond curing or killing. People could just leave vampires alone, the same way they leave anyone in a particular race to their own devices. It is often impossible to determine if someone is a vampire from a human upon looks alone, so even if the Inquisition become a huge success and they believed they had cured or killed all the vampires, the point would be moot because vampires could still be amongst them and they would not know the difference.

In conclusion, if someone chooses to be a vampire, it is not disease. It could be better likened to a race, and people who despise vampires who choose to be vampires, can be likened to racists. And that's why the Inquisition can be likened to genocide.

 

[Wackeo]

The server lore states that vampires are demands of MrsBaver meaning they are forced by her to do evil things and are diseased by her. Vampires can't have equal rights because it would go against the server lore. The Inquisition is at Regalia to protect it from the evil demands, those who want vampires to be equal need to read the server lore, due to the fact that the server lore doesn't allow vampires with equal rights they will never have equal rights.

 

[MonMarty]

I didn't really bother to read the entire post since I am tired of seeing over 9001 posts about this, but from the logic of the first paragraph, you could also say AIDS is questionably termed as a disease, because there are people who willingly take it, and give it out to others, and that's where your logic falls under "grasping at straws".

 

[Brittlebear]

I didn't really bother to read the entire post since I am tired of seeing over 9001 posts about this, but from the logic of the first paragraph, you could also say AIDS is questionably termed as a disease, because there are people who willingly take it, and give it out to others, and that's where your logic falls under "grasping at straws".

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You could read the post before attempting to disrespect your players. You do a disservice to your fellow staff with such unprofessional behavior.

 

[MonMarty]

If you are a good essary writer, then your point should have been made evident in the conclusion and the first paragraph, or the introduction. Everything else in between is argumentation, which makes reading the entire post unnecessary if the conclusion is made that there is an inherent flaw at the very get-go.

 

[JohhnyDamage]

There should be a TL;DR. That is a wall of text man.

 

[Brittlebear]

If you are a good essary writer, then your point should have been made evident in the conclusion and the first paragraph, or the introduction. Everything else in between is argumentation, which makes reading the entire post unnecessary if the conclusion is made that there is an inherent flaw at the very get-go.

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If you are a good staff member you will hear out your community and try to understand them and their problems and concerns.

 

[MonMarty]

First of all this post wasn't marked as a complaint or otherwise suggestion or remark in the appropriate sections of the forum. It shall therefor be regarded as a private or post made for personal gain. Attempting to discredit me for pointing out a train of flaws in your logic and fallacious statements, is thus kindof pointless and bad form.

Secondly, server staff wrote/spread around official lore. Vampires and non vampires wishing to white-knight insert their own definition of it all into the server, which in itself is an insult to those maintaining the lore. You have not made any references to the official lore in this entire thing, so you make a very one sided story, which discredits the whole thing even further.

Lastly, you make a universal statement "If you are a good staff member". This is a bit of a silly statement. Did you make it based on our team codex or based on your own opinions? Remember MassiveCraft is a private property server of Cayorion. It is not a company or legal body of a country, and as such does not apeal to some rulebook on how to be a good staff member anywhere. A staff member is good because he is deemed so by the definitions of Cayorion. Next to that, you are pulling a judgement on my abilities and responsibilities as an admin based on a one-take instance, even though I have been a staff member for months. That way you are negating all my prior and future actions and are placing a judgement on me. Sounds very fair nay?

 

[FireSoap]

If you are a good staff member you will hear our your community and try to understand them and their problems and concerns.​

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​

But we do indeed listen to our community!​

For months and months people have been screaming for more RP instead of the "pvp part". We solved this by writing down server lore and creating the new capital city Regalia which offered the community alot of options to RP! Furthermore, we decided to engage the feature of being a vampire into hardcore RP. If people whatsoever do not think this is a good idea, they can simply use a good altar to cure themself. ​

​

Yes we do force this onto players in Regalia, but this is what our community has been begging us for.​

In regards of MonMarty's replies I do agree with him.
As you can see there has been so much, well yes whining, in regards of our RP. And it is pretty anoying to look at as it's been clearly stated how it is.

 

[Brittlebear]

Alright, my complaint would be the way people treat each other. My argument would be, as stated, that people should be treated equally. Regardless of what character the choose to play as. Is teaching people that those who are different should be brought forth and cured of their differences or killed for them acceptable? This entire event makes me very uncomfortable because of hose much hate it has generated so far. Only further by people who hide behind lore as their protection from facing the consequences of their racism driven actions. Is it any different from those Salem Witch Trails, I don't think so. I think that fact that it's called the Inquisition to start with must show that at some level you all know what you're doing, by picking a group to be hated and mocked. I believe that this entire event is only going to further distance your players away from each other, perhaps to the point of dis-membership because they don't want to feel poorly while playing a game which should be fun and co-operative.[DOUBLEPOST=1362682165][/DOUBLEPOST]

​

But we do indeed listen to our community!​

For months and months people have been screaming for more RP instead of the "pvp part". We solved this by writing down server lore and creating the new capital city Regalia which offered the community alot of options to RP! Furthermore, we decided to engage the feature of being a vampire into hardcore RP. If people whatsoever do not think this is a good idea, they can simply use a good altar to cure themself. ​

​

Yes we do force this onto players in Regalia, but this is what our community has been begging us for.​

In regards of MonMarty's replies I do agree with him.
As you can see there has been so much, well yes whining, in regards of our RP. And it is pretty anoying to look at as it's been clearly stated how it is.

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I disagree, if so many people clearly dislike it or are 'whining' then why does it still exist? People are clearly upset about it, but since they are being suppressed by Inquisition members and staff alike, then they decide to be quiet out of fear. This event seems to have caused nothing but problems.

 

[FireSoap]

Alright, my complaint would be the way people treat each other. My argument would be, as stated, that people should be treated equally. Regardless of what character the choose to play as. Is teaching people that those who are different should be brought forth and cured of their differences or killed for them acceptable?

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Please do note that this is RP in the medieval/rennesance. The ideas behind fairness and pedagogics was not untill the 20th century.[DOUBLEPOST=1362682482][/DOUBLEPOST]

I disagree, if so many people clearly dislike it or are 'whining' then why does it still exist? People are clearly upset about it, but since they are being suppressed by Inquisition members and staff alike, then they decide to be quiet out of fear. This event seems to have caused nothing but problems.

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The amount of people who complains is a minority of poor RP' ers or META Gamers, or basicly just PVP' ers who doesnt care.

I see a giant majority of players, in the game, who loves our new RP concept.

 

[shawzie314]

Hi soap on fire it's me shawzie

 

[Brittlebear]

Please do note that this is RP in the medieval/rennesance. The ideas behind fairness and pedagogics was not untill the 20th century.

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But this is a family-friendly server as well? Doesn't there need to be a balance? Shouldn't ideals which helped shape people into better beings of the modern era be implemented into this fantasy world? If nothing else for the sake of the younger players who take lessons from all that happens around them?

 

[MonMarty]

Vampires hiding themselves used to be the actual playing norm so long ago when the server slots were less. Sadly as the server became more popular, the amount of bad roleplayers and "twilight sparkle vampires" started increasing to intolerable levels. The set-up of the inquisition was to push back this drive and make vampires back into what they were intended to be when the plugin was released. I don't see the relation between the inquisition and racism at all, Vampires aren't a race but are defined as the spawn of evil by the lore hand. Their state is from a demon, Their state serves a demon, and they expand the influence of a demon - Even if they fight it directly.

Conflict and violence is part of an authentic Medieval roleplay. We add aspects of fantasy, but this isn't a sunshine butterflies fantasy server. The raw intolerance, wars and general banditry are what makes the server more autentic. If this server was about cooperation, it would have PVP disabled.

 

[Satorgen]

As far as I can see, this thread currently only contains logics from one person and facts from another, neither of which is you, Brittlebear. This seems to me to be nothing more than you trying to change the lore, that some of the staff have taken the time out of their own life to write to benefit others, only to make it into something you think is better. Given that this thread was started in the general section, not the complaints/sugjestions section or roleplay section, we treat this as a point of view and can therefore point out flaws in logic contained in the first post.

I read most of your post, but too be honest while writing up my reply to it, I can hardly remember a single word as it sounded more like you were having a discussion with yourself about the philosophy of life.

However, I see the point you try to make with it being a disease of choice mainly. But now see ours. Regalia has always been known to hate vampires and those who support them, thus the Crimson Inquisition was born from that hatered. Given that Massivecraft is a RP minecraft server, we encourage RP (obviously). So far, I think the RP this Inquisition has brought to Regalia has been good. People are spending time there just to RP which I, personally, find to be a great motivation to continue the work we do to bring more RP events such as this to Massivecraft.

 

[FireSoap]

But this is a family-friendly server as well? Doesn't there need to be a balance? Shouldn't ideals which helped shape people into better beings of the modern era be implemented into this fantasy world? If nothing else for the sake of the younger players who take lessons from all that happens around them?​

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​

This is a great point! But the family-friendly part of this server, is focused in our rule set. As an example "No irresponsible, disturbing, disrespectful or offensive behavior on the server. This covers things such as trolling, name calling, griefing in certain cases or otherwise generally abusive behavior." ​

As you can see above ^ this is what young people not should be victims off.​

Now please do remember, that in this modern time, some young people loves to get their mind of school, friends and other things which could cause pressure on this, and maybe in the worst cases cause a depression. They often do this by role playing. Some people do it IRL, acting RP in a forest as whatever they want to, inside their ruleset - Or on a simple Minecraft server, where this has been made possible! Now see we love these young people, as they come onto our server to RP, having fun relaxing and simply getting their mind of whatever could be bothering them.

As for myself! Massivecraft is my hobby, whenever I need to relax I log on to the server and go to Regalia, walk around saying hi to people, looking at shops and houses and enjoy that noone here would call me a looser for playing Minecraft.​

 

[Tahmas]

-Yawns-

 

[Brittlebear]

Let me see if this is correct.
Vampires are evil because lore says so, and players can't decide on their own how their character is played.
Vampires as annoying and thus players need to be scared or harassed out of playing them anymore.

This server is authentic in that it has fantasy races, and allows players to roleplay those races as they will unless they're vampires.
Raw intolerance is tolerated because this server doesn't want to have players be cooperative?

This all seems very off to me. I try to always play cooperatively and have fun, with friends, to make something really great, because minecraft at it's core, is a creativity driven game. And to build somethign or work together with your friends is what makes multiplayer servers so great. But not this server, because it's not about being cooperative, but instead being intolerant of others and their differences. I'm seeing some maybe flaws in your argument now sir...

 

[MonMarty]

It seems off because you are completely misinterpreting everything that is being said in a negative way.

 

[Brittlebear]

I think this proves me point. By making a thread with a simple title and a simple idea, of defending vampires, or playing devils advocate, and getting the staff to jump down my throat about it, harass me about my writing skills, and otherwise call me incompetent, proves the type of server this is, just as MonMarty said, they have a raw intolerance for their players. And if someone wants to speak out against something they believe is wrong, then they will be silenced, or trampled as to display who has the power here. And to be honest, I've seen this example so many times in game, it's been very disheartening how the staff react and treat the players. I don't understand how you can have so little respect for people you don't even know anything about?

I suppose this is the closest I can get to asking that the staff take a moment and look at your own actions. There are some serious cries of corruption form the people and I'm inclined after this to agree.

 

[Satorgen]

So let's see if I understand you correctly...firstly you say MonMarty is a bad admin because he points out flaws in your statements and now you say Massivecraft isn't a good server because of some shoddy concept you drafted up in your head. You're making less and less sense and I agree with Marty at this point, you are grasping at straws now to desperatly try to win this "debate" .[DOUBLEPOST=1362684586][/DOUBLEPOST]As for this comment:

There are some serious cries of corruption form the people and I'm inclined after this to agree

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I'd love to see some more people comment on this. Because if it's as "serious" as you claim, then apparently the whole staff should just fire themselves and let loose anarchy and chaos with players trying to govern themselves.

 

[Brittlebear]

Lastly, you make a universal statement "If you are a good staff member". This is a bit of a silly statement. Did you make it based on our team codex or based on your own opinions? Remember MassiveCraft is a private property server of Cayorion. It is not a company or legal body of a country, and as such does not apeal to some rulebook on how to be a good staff member anywhere. A staff member is good because he is deemed so by the definitions of Cayorion. Next to that, you are pulling a judgement on my abilities and responsibilities as an admin based on a one-take instance, even though I have been a staff member for months. That way you are negating all my prior and future actions and are placing a judgement on me. Sounds very fair nay?

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"If you are a good essay writer" - This is a bit of a silly statement. Remember MassiveCraft is a game, which people play to have fun. The forums give a play for players to speak their mind in a public, forum. You are pulling a judgement on my abilities as a writer based on a one-take instance, even though I have been a essay writer for years. That way you are negating all my prior and future works and are placing a judgement on me. Sounds very fair nay?[DOUBLEPOST=1362684710][/DOUBLEPOST]

So let's see if I understand you correctly...firstly you say MonMarty is a bad admin because he points out flaws in your statements and now you say Massivecraft isn't a good server because of some shoddy concept you drafted up in your head. You're making less and less sense and I agree with Marty at this point, you are grasping at straws now to desperatly try to win this "debate" .[DOUBLEPOST=1362684586][/DOUBLEPOST]As for this comment:


I'd love to see some more people comment on this. Because if it's as "serious" as you claim, then apparently the whole staff should just fire themselves and let loose anarchy and chaos with players trying to govern themselves.

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Lets try it!

 

[JohhnyDamage]

What do you do with a drunken sailor?
What do you do with a drunken sailor?
What do you do with a drunken sailor?
Early in the morning!

You lock its thread.

No offense bosses, but this is becoming less about vampires and more about personal attacks.

 

[MonMarty]

"If you are a good essay writer" - This is a bit of a silly statement. Remember MassiveCraft is a game, which people play to have fun. The forums give a play for players to speak their mind in a public, forum.

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And what have we learned today?

Do not try to make a debate or essay on a forum where people will disagree with you, and prove you wrong, when you expect them not to "because it's a game" This entire thread is full of corruption insults from your side and grossly taking the words of others out of context and misinterpreting them in your favor.


In summary of the thread:

• Vampires themselves may choose to be good or evil morally, as long as they do not deny the fact that their state is evil. A fact which is stated in many threads all over the forum, but Brittlebear didn't think it was interesting to consider any of the other threads' content. We do not offer players full control to choose their roleplay character, since we believe that roleplaying can be fun and rewarding in a setting where we expect you to conform to our history.
• The server staff is intolerant towards players who are intolerant of the server's identity and the amount of work the staff have put into the server, and spam claims of corruption all over a thread.
• The staff return respect to players equal the amount of respect received from them. The staff does not ask for your respect, the same way you are not entitled to respect if you only complain. Remember that staff care is a luxury, not a right. Staff members help because they feel like it, not because they are paid or rewarded to do it.