Archived How I'd Like The New World To Be

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Gumee

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The Jade Sun
We are all aware that MassiveCraft has been undergoing some faction world maintenance. It was also declared, that the upcoming factions world would still be attached to the Massive network, but have separate regals, inventories, and potentially factions--thus making it a "fresh start". This is an opportunity, to do a trial run for some new features and systems.

Here's how I'd like to see the new world delivered, that will hopefully make the launch exciting for all parties involved (staff and players). I'm sure this has a project name within the staff team, however for the purpose of this post, I'll refer to this new world system as MassiveKingdoms.

First off, let's review the economy. Fresh regal count, means it's a fresh start. Upon login, new players should not receive any regals. Instead, the starting area should have a shop that buys (and does not sell) gathered materials and ores. This means, blocks, ingots, and mob drops. What should not be included are craft able items, like enchanted weapons or armor. This way, players can earn money by spending time gathering materials and selling it to the server shop. With that earned capital, they can then trade it with players for more refined goods like god gear. That way the market for player made goods is 100% player based, while staff can still control prices of those produced goods by fluctuating their raw material's value within a server shop. So far, we have a system for introducing regal's and for trading them with other players, all that's left is a system for taking them out of the economy. Faction taxes are a consistent, and annoying, method for removing regals. I wouldn't play around with the tax right away. By keeping it minimal at first, it allows players to build up wealth and gauge the other all health of the economy. It can then be later adjusted. If we want to pull money out, then within this new survival world we establish public facilities, like darkrooms and farms, but charge players for their use. Of course, those player's can still make their own facilities, but other's will just opt to pay entry fee's for the convenience.

Now, I want to talk about factions and role play. Honestly, I really dislike crisis of kings. I don't like how it's forums intensive, nor do I like some of the constraints for entering. It feels like an exclusive and alienating system. The forums should supplement play on the server, not control it. I've always felt that RP and PVP play styles need to be separated. I wrote a post about it. However, it was met with some disagreement. Therefore, factions in this new world should be 100% RP based. In order to claim in the new world you must write an application, similar to a character sheet, including: name, lore (what kind of society is it, values of its citizens, etc), intended build style, a lore compliant faction description that gives a brief summary (for example: Barbaric Tribesmen of the North, Crazed Followers of the Moon God, Largest Southeastern Trade Port), and a list of tagged members (at least 3) who will join. A staff member then makes the faction and grants ownership to the player. If they want to change the description, name, or anything like that, they must file an application with staff. If they want to change relations either to ally, neutral, truce, or enemy they must also file an application similar to war declarations. Past all that, it'd still play like Massive currently plays.

IGN: Gumee
Faction: Vanos
/f desc: Neutral Scavengers of the Hyarocc Caverns
Lore: A group of sailors were stranded along the Hyarocc coast. With some exploration they unearthed large cavernous channels in the mountainside, that went on indefinitely. With no where else to go, they ventured further, ultimately finding the ruins of a lost civilazation. Using the remains of the previous tenant's remaining storage, they were able to rebuild and survive within it's walls. Vanos is now a hidden, yet thriving township that remains fairly neutral with external politics. They take pride in their nationalistic tendencies, and don't like to engage in trade with other factions. In fact, their whereabouts are unknown to most others. Their warriors are poorly equipped and rely on guerilla warfare tactics in order to handle threats. Their flag is of a rice bowl and they like squids for some reason.
Allies: None
Enemies: None
Truce: ExampleFac1, ExampleFac2

So what does this all do? Well, first off it commits a faction to a certain lore that they've been forced to put some thought into. Next, it creates a referable archive on the forums, for players to look up factions they have spotted in the world. With the establishment of the description, it allows players to get a general idea of what kind of lore is associated with the faction. They don't have to research them online or anything, they can get a general synopsis without leaving Minecraft. Then, it forces consistency, so that factions don't splinter off, or frequently change their name. It brands then to a certain identity. Lastly, it makes relations and diplomacy mean something. Factions don't have to rp (although the potential is there), but they can't just run around willy-nilly either.

Factions and PvP isn't unique to MassiveCraft. It's on almost every server. What makes MassiveCraft unique, is it's ability to blend Factions and PvP with other cool features and story progressions. Massive is an alternate world, it shouldn't feel like every either towny or factions or kitpvp server. It's a blend of all those genres. It's quite literally, massive. It's hard to integrate all these features, without making complex systems that make sense to the creators, but not the users (as I've seen happen far too many times on massive). This is a solution that gives depth to factions, maintains variety from other servers, allows players to develop quality factions they can take pride in, and offers an easy to comprehend structure, while still offering varying degrees of participation.
 
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I think centering the new world on a large location of interest that can be contended over would be a good way to generate conflict.

Maybe some half-ruined city with loot to be had and monsters to slay. Like a city-sized dungeon, with little quests in the few inhabited areas with value to RPers and PvE'ers. Or like, regenerating resources to make factions wanna dig their heels in.
 
In order to claim in the new world you must write an application, similar to a character sheet, including: name, lore (what kind of society is it, values of its citizens, etc), intended build style, a lore compliant faction description that gives a brief summary (for example: Barbaric Tribesmen of the North, Crazed Followers of the Moon God, Largest Southeastern Trade Port), and a list of tagged members (at least 3) who will join. A staff member then makes the faction and grants ownership to the player. If they want to change the description, name, or anything like that, they must file an application with staff.
Fascism.
 
Therefore, factions in this new world should be 100% RP based.
See, the new world is suppose to not only grab the attention of Regalian rpers, but also current faction players whether they be pvper or rper. While I know you probably don't really know that, or perhaps you don't and just don't like pvpers, we would probably lose pvpers/non-rpers if we did this.

The new world was an idea by MonMarty, I believe, and it is his attempt to try and fix the faction world after neglecting to Regalia- it would be a kick between the legs to make it 100% RP.
 
First off, let's review the economy. Fresh regal count, means it's a fresh start. Upon login, new players should not receive any regals. Instead, the starting area should have a shop that buys (and does not sell) gathered materials and ores. This means, blocks, ingots, and mob drops. What should not be included are craft able items, like enchanted weapons or armor. This way, players can earn money by spending time gathering materials and selling it to the server shop. With that earned capital, they can then trade it with players for more refined goods like god gear. That way the market for player made goods is 100% player based, while staff can still control prices of those produced goods by fluctuating their raw material's value within a server shop. So far, we have a system for introducing regal's and for trading them with other players, all that's left is a system for taking them out of the economy. Faction taxes are a consistent, and annoying, method for removing regals. I wouldn't play around with the tax right away. By keeping it minimal at first, it allows players to build up wealth and gauge the other all health of the economy. It can then be later adjusted. If we want to pull money out, then within this new survival world we establish public facilities, like darkrooms and farms, but charge players for their use. Of course, those player's can still make their own facilities, but other's will just opt to pay entry fee's for the convenience.

Economist barking in.

The issue in minecraft is the lack of cost associated with production (EG, the ease of obtaining resources). The only cost is utility, which is usually afforded by all but the hardest of roleplayers (like myself who just buy everything they need). In the classic demand curve this translates into a flat curve of quantity supplied close to zero. Combined with low demand, this results in a very, very low price equilibrium (since there will always be a greater supply than demand). Players involuntarily set a higher price than the equilibrium because they don't want to sell low (and can't, since low demand), which results in a deviation from the equilibrium and a phenomenon economists call a drop in market welfare.

Setting a price floor (admin sell-shops) forces shop prices above the price floor (since it won't be worthwhile for shopkeepers to sell to players below). This, once again according to classic demand theory, will decrease the market welfare further. What this means is that the result isn't going to be the shopkeepers selling their surplus to the admin shops while keeping their shops stocked, but that:

1. They will switch to selling only and solely to admin shops if the admin shops buy above price of convenience to maximise profits
2. They will ignore admin shops if the admin shops buy below price of convenience

You can also count with some heterodox community-spirit theory, which means prices won't change but shopkeepers will make a slight bit more. But then again, you will reward selling surplus and award utility devoted to farming / grinding.

The main issue to address is the lack of demand, which can be mended with artificial demand. A better alternative would be for staff to choose a random commodity every day and purchase a set (like 1024 blocks/pieces) of that good from admin-money, destroying the commodities straight away, ordering the purchase from buying out the cheapest shop and then proceeding to the more expensive ones (emulating the market).
 
The main issue to address is the lack of demand, which can be mended with artificial demand. A better alternative would be for staff to choose a random commodity every day and purchase a set (like 1024 blocks/pieces) of that good from admin-money, destroying the commodities straight away, ordering the purchase from buying out the cheapest shop and then proceeding to the more expensive ones (emulating the market).

Im admittedly way less knowledgable on the topic, but from what you say it seems making some things harder to make would also be a good thing? IE, for example, Potions, or Enchants?

If thats the case I would love to see some system to make getting certain enchants way more resource and time intensive, but more predictable as a result. So, as an example, instead of praying to RNGesus and enchanting 30 books and spending maybe 50 levels combining them all up and then into a god-tier item, you do some ritual, with Massive Magic mechanics maybe, that guarantees say, what type of enchant you will get on the book, IE Armor, Weapon, or Tool, but costs more, say 20%, XP per enchant and it takes 30 seconds or a minute instead of being near instant.


I dont know, I like the idea of artificial demand to balance things but I also love trying to devise mechanics for things too so I figured Id toss this out there. Because armor and especially potions are a must to PVP.
 
Im admittedly way less knowledgable on the topic, but from what you say it seems making some things harder to make would also be a good thing? IE, for example, Potions, or Enchants?

If thats the case I would love to see some system to make getting certain enchants way more resource and time intensive, but more predictable as a result. So, as an example, instead of praying to RNGesus and enchanting 30 books and spending maybe 50 levels combining them all up and then into a god-tier item, you do some ritual, with Massive Magic mechanics maybe, that guarantees say, what type of enchant you will get on the book, IE Armor, Weapon, or Tool, but costs more, say 20%, XP per enchant and it takes 30 seconds or a minute instead of being near instant.


I dont know, I like the idea of artificial demand to balance things but I also love trying to devise mechanics for things too so I figured Id toss this out there. Because armor and especially potions are a must to PVP.

Separate commodities that are used by PvPers/faction players and roleplayers. There is a far higher demand present for the latter goods. And you can't really make it more "complicated" or "challenging" to acquire decorative blocks.

There was another server that tried it, they just abandoned the idea as a whole because people hated it. Nexus crafting *shivers*
 
The Quest Department has something in the works that may add a little immersion and RPG elements to the new world, though it's mostly geared towards PvE/Survivalists.
 
Therefore, factions in this new world should be 100% RP based. In order to claim in the new world you must write an application, similar to a character sheet, including: name, lore (what kind of society is it, values of its citizens, etc), intended build style, a lore compliant faction description that gives a brief summary (for example: Barbaric Tribesmen of the North, Crazed Followers of the Moon God, Largest Southeastern Trade Port), and a list of tagged members (at least 3) who will join. A staff member then makes the faction and grants ownership to the player.
Oml, please no. This is the exact opposite direction massive should be moving. All this would do is discriminate against new players, as well as keep older players from joining who don't want to put in the work in that type of thing.
 
See, the new world is suppose to not only grab the attention of Regalian rpers, but also current faction players whether they be pvper or rper. While I know you probably don't really know that, or perhaps you don't and just don't like pvpers, we would probably lose pvpers/non-rpers if we did this.

The new world was an idea by MonMarty, I believe, and it is his attempt to try and fix the faction world after neglecting to Regalia- it would be a kick between the legs to make it 100% RP.

Fun fact: I am a PvPer.

If I want to PvP, I go on Badlion or an arcade server and play skywars. I don't go on Massive any more. Why? Because MassivePvP has lost all its uniqueness over the years. I'm not saying we make the world RP based to discourage PvP, I'm saying we do it, in order to make Massive PvP have its own flavour again. Quite frankly, the PvP on this server is ridiculously boring and since the removal of races, traits, and the heavy mcmmo nerfs, Massive no longee has anything that makes PvP special, or "worth the grind" which is apparently being made increasingly difficult.
 
Oml, please no. This is the exact opposite direction massive should be moving. All this would do is discriminate against new players, as well as keep older players from joining who don't want to put in the work in that type of thing.

Having been active in the faction announcements section, there was a large group of players that would be fine writing lore and implementing stuff into their factions. I'm pretty sure I could find stuff you've written about sunkiss.

New players won't have to engage with this, rather they could just join existing factions (which new players should if they dont want to get squashed by bored factions like Vanos). But in order to create one, it'd take a little bit more thought.
 
The Quest Department has something in the works that may add a little immersion and RPG elements to the new world, though it's mostly geared towards PvE/Survivalists.

I'm very excited about this, but in all honest quests have been obsolete for a long time. Ever since there was that quest island (which I completed) the rewards have been laughable. RPG items and minuscule amounts regals are not incentive enough to complete progressions. If you're going to do this, I'm curious how you'll incentivize players to actually do the new quests.

One thing I would like to see, is some sort of repeatable "dungeon runs" around the world for players to interact with when exploring. However again, the rewards should be worth it. Maybe now that god gear is more scarce, enchanted books could be rewarded or something?
 
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Economist barking in.

The issue in minecraft is the lack of cost associated with production (EG, the ease of obtaining resources). The only cost is utility, which is usually afforded by all but the hardest of roleplayers (like myself who just buy everything they need). In the classic demand curve this translates into a flat curve of quantity supplied close to zero. Combined with low demand, this results in a very, very low price equilibrium (since there will always be a greater supply than demand). Players involuntarily set a higher price than the equilibrium because they don't want to sell low (and can't, since low demand), which results in a deviation from the equilibrium and a phenomenon economists call a drop in market welfare.

Setting a price floor (admin sell-shops) forces shop prices above the price floor (since it won't be worthwhile for shopkeepers to sell to players below). This, once again according to classic demand theory, will decrease the market welfare further. What this means is that the result isn't going to be the shopkeepers selling their surplus to the admin shops while keeping their shops stocked, but that:

1. They will switch to selling only and solely to admin shops if the admin shops buy above price of convenience to maximise profits
2. They will ignore admin shops if the admin shops buy below price of convenience

You can also count with some heterodox community-spirit theory, which means prices won't change but shopkeepers will make a slight bit more. But then again, you will reward selling surplus and award utility devoted to farming / grinding.

The main issue to address is the lack of demand, which can be mended with artificial demand. A better alternative would be for staff to choose a random commodity every day and purchase a set (like 1024 blocks/pieces) of that good from admin-money, destroying the commodities straight away, ordering the purchase from buying out the cheapest shop and then proceeding to the more expensive ones (emulating the market).

With the new world having seperate regals and seperate inventories, the new world will have an entirely seperate economy. The chest shops weren't a permanent solution; the idea was that by setting a baseline, it'll change players preconceived notions of the value of their current goods. Thus, pushing players to value their items more and deflate player trade a bit. I've only briefly studies macroeconomics and consumer econ, and you're clearly far more knowledgeable, so I'm not going to discredit your corrected idea on the basis that it disagrees with mine, because quite frankly it makes more sense and I like it better. I'm curious of what you think about this post and would appreciate feedback.
 
With the new world having seperate regals and seperate inventories, the new world will have an entirely seperate economy. The chest shops weren't a permanent solution; the idea was that by setting a baseline, it'll change players preconceived notions of the value of their current goods. Thus, pushing players to value their items more and deflate player trade a bit. I've only briefly studies macroeconomics and consumer econ, and you're clearly far more knowledgeable, so I'm not going to discredit your corrected idea on the basis that it disagrees with mine, because quite frankly it makes more sense and I like it better. I'm curious of what you think about this post and would appreciate feedback.

The circumstances that led to the current economy, I do not think they resulted from any bad past server decision or simply a long period of time, more so as a natural result of minecraft mechanics that cannot truly be fixed. MMORPGs have similar issues which is why a lot have an ever-inflating currency that they artificially crush in worth.

I fear that even if in the short term a blank state of new economy could work out, it'd soon devolve into the same issues on long term.