Archived Horse Pvp

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leichendame

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A majestic Horse.jpg
The Horse a majestic and beautiful creature that had much great use in battle.But not on
the fields of war on Massivecraft.

OK, I'll get to the point now.Right now Horse PVP isn't that good of an option.The horse will just die too quickly.So I have a great idea for a new feature.Buffing the Horse.

Horse Buffs
  • 1.Enchantable Horse Armor:Right now you can enchant Horse Armor and it has no effect so if we add enchantable horse armor the horse should survive much longer.
  • 2.Feed Golden Apples to horse for its effects.
  • 3.A bit more health and speed
I just thought this would be cool.
 
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It's a good idea, but in my own opinion, horse PvP does more harm than good.

For example, let's say that these buffs happen, and essentially the horse is just a glorified piggyback player. This has some notable consequences:
  • You are standing higher than your opponent. What this basically means is that you have the high ground. While normally a pretty good idea, your arms would disagree. Your arms are located in the higher portion of your hitbox, not the direct middle. What this means is that it is a lot easier to reach things above you to hit than below you. This can be shown by simply mining below and above you. You can mine a few more blocks above your head than below. So how does this relate to PvP on horses? Same idea, except you are forced to hit down, giving you minimum reach. As for your attacker, they just have to make sure you stay on that horse long enough so they get the "low ground advantage".
  • The horse takes up space on the screen. Not a real flaw with horse PvP, but it is a shortcoming.
  • The horse does not flip on a dime. 1.9 made it so horse riding is client-sided, making it a bit smoother. But you still don't turn as easily and narrow as on foot. Simply try and chase someone, and have them make a 90 degree or more turn into you. You will not simply turn around; you go forward a few feet, slow down, then accelerate again. By that time, your opponent might have a few blocks of space, more than enough space to line up a good bow shot, and pearl, or to get a hit on you.
  • They aren't very mobile. Want to stop someone from running you down with a horse? Build your base near water or on it. Horses will just throw you off and won't be to keen on crossing rivers.
Horse PvP is essentially just a fun gimmick with a small group of people. There are just too many inherent flaws with riding into battle. If you want the speed, add the traits or pop the drinks.
 
It's a good idea, but in my own opinion, horse PvP does more harm than good.

For example, let's say that these buffs happen, and essentially the horse is just a glorified piggyback player. This has some notable consequences:
  • You are standing higher than your opponent. What this basically means is that you have the high ground. While normally a pretty good idea, your arms would disagree. Your arms are located in the higher portion of your hitbox, not the direct middle. What this means is that it is a lot easier to reach things above you to hit than below you. This can be shown by simply mining below and above you. You can mine a few more blocks above your head than below. So how does this relate to PvP on horses? Same idea, except you are forced to hit down, giving you minimum reach. As for your attacker, they just have to make sure you stay on that horse long enough so they get the "low ground advantage".
  • The horse takes up space on the screen. Not a real flaw with horse PvP, but it is a shortcoming.
  • The horse does not flip on a dime. 1.9 made it so horse riding is client-sided, making it a bit smoother. But you still don't turn as easily and narrow as on foot. Simply try and chase someone, and have them make a 90 degree or more turn into you. You will not simply turn around; you go forward a few feet, slow down, then accelerate again. By that time, your opponent might have a few blocks of space, more than enough space to line up a good bow shot, and pearl, or to get a hit on you.
  • They aren't very mobile. Want to stop someone from running you down with a horse? Build your base near water or on it. Horses will just throw you off and won't be to keen on crossing rivers.
Horse PvP is essentially just a fun gimmick with a small group of people. There are just too many inherent flaws with riding into battle. If you want the speed, add the traits or pop the drinks.

About how the horses take a while to turn it's not that big of a problem while running people down.

About your last point maybe make it so that horses can swim?
 
I'm not entirely sure that would be possible. Maybe for 1.11?

I'd like seeing a new type of mechanic. But at the same time I'm not a Massive PvPer, so I don't have a complete understanding of how the community works on that half of it. I just get my info from the forums.
 
Horses are occasionally used on hcf servers, but generally to catch up to people in chases (which aren't as applicable on massive). That's just because of the issues with horses in minecraft, as well as the fact that you literally cannot strafe on a horse. You can move sideways, but it's so slow it doesn't matter. Buffing horses won't really do anything unless there end up being more neutral pvp areas where people have to run a thousand+ blocks to be safe, instead of 10 to walk into a safe room.
 
TL;DR: Not possible with a plugin, or even a mod, probably.


I love horses. Anyone who knows me knows that I love horses beyond anything else in the world.
That being said, horses in video games suck. Always.
There are multiple advantages to having a horse in combat in real life.
1: Speed. If you charge someone on a horse, and hit them with your weapon, it does a LOT more damage to them then hitting them with a forward step like you would on the ground. As well, you can chase anyone down who tries to run, easily. With a bow, it will make you very hard to hit, and you can pick off your enemies safely and easily.
2: Intimidation. Have you ever seen a horse in real life? They're huge, and terrifying. Now imagine one running toward you, with an armored guy with a weapon planning to kill you on top. Formations often crumbled, and people routed, just from being faced with a cavalry charge.
Yes, that's it, that's all they needed to become some of the msot powerful weapons on a battlefield, but as such, there is downsides as well.
1. They are very poor with water. Horses are plains creatures, they do not move fast in water, and water can stop cavalry. If you have a river between you and the enemy cavalry, and there's no bridge, they're probably not going to try to cross. But, with that, it's hard to get any army to cross a river in general, horses are just worse.
2. They're difficult to take care of. Having an army of cavalry is far more expensive than having an army of infantry. You need provisions and people just to take care of the horses, and they're big and take a lot of food. If you don't have supplies, you can't have a lot of horses.
3. You stop, you die. If you stop on your horse, you lose all your advantages. They're not fast when stopped, and they're not nearly as scary. And with that, they're very easy to kill. Most horses have to be lightly armored or unarmoured, or they can't move very quickly. Cavalry are only good in spread out formations. If you charge your horse right into a group of soldiers, you may kill a few, but you die too. There were heavy cavalry, but they're even more difficult to take care of, and make your army a lot slower, while only helping out with the intimidation factor, really.

Now that being said; How fast you move in minecraft has nothing to do with the damage you deal, and you're more mobile with an enderpearl than you are with a horse, no matter what changes you make, making chasing down routers impossible, because they can move where you can't. Now, knowing that, are you going to be scared of a horse? No, probably not. This is minecraft. Horses aren't huge, and you won't actually die. They won't have any more advantage, either.
Still though, they are poor with water, and forests (which they're not the best with, but can easily manage in real life due to roads). And again, in minecraft, if you stop you die. That applies on foot too. But in minecraft you have to move side to side, which is pretty hard with a horse in the game.

Minecraft isn't the only one plagued with these problems. Skyrim as well (although horses are the fastest way to get around still so they have some use) has terrible horse combat, although that is mostly due to inability to hit your enemy while on the horse, as well as the lack of speed bonus.
In fact, the only game I have ever seen that does horses well, is mount and blade. Horses in mount and blade are a formidible foe. There is speed damage, and if you have a lance, you get enough speed damage bonus to almost insta kill anyone, if you're going fast enough, making them intimidating again, especially since the size is better as well in that. And, they have their downsides too. Horses move very slow in the shallow waters of the game, very, very slow. It will take away that speed bonus entirely. They're also more expensive in terms of money. And, spears stop horses. You get stabbed with a spear, your horse stops. And once your horse stops, and you can't get away, you die to the infantry around you.
So, unless minecraft almost completely changes their combat engines to a more realistic, mount and blade style combat system, horses will be very useless in it. This can't be done with a plugin.

Also, no, buffing horses will do nothing.
I have buffed horses, I have 2 ironhoofs, and horses bred from Ironhoofs. Hundreds of health, very formidable, and very fast. Still useless.

Although, I do like the idea of buffing horses by feeding them, if the effect is permanent. Might make taking care of horses and farming them and such neat.
 
General rejection at this time as improving PvP on horseback is not likely going assist in PvP due to hitbox issues, and overall not enough value for the time effort it may take Tech staff.
 
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