Archived Combat Tag Elytra

[Tokuu]

The title of this thread is pretty self explanatory, in that I feel elytra themselves should have a combat tag. With the addition of rockets to allow you to fly away from combat almost seamlessly, this really puts a dampener on the ability to raid effectively.

People wishing to escape PvP can already simply build a safe enough base so raiders cannot get inside, /tp to Regalia where there is no PvP at all, or simply surrender to the attacking faction to cease any raiding activity for at least 30 days. I know people wish to spend their own time in the factions worlds peacefully, and this can be done with careful city planning, and choosing your friends wisely.

Now, I know that people adore to use these to easily escape scary raiders, or just to give bombing runs, and while I will agree that seeing several people tossing harming pots at people while flying is fairly amusing, actually raiding these people is impossible, as they can simply fly away with immunity, even after taking damage.

A secondary reason as to why I want to add a combat tag is so that they are not removed altogether. Exploration is an integral part of the factions worlds, and using these to fly around the maps, obtaining access to areas which would otherwise take a long time to get to, is important to many people. Therefore, this would allow exploration and the ability to run from raiders before getting hit, but after being combat tagged, they can no longer be used until a pacifist true flag is attained.

Tagging people who, I assume, would have an opinion on either side of this argument: @jquaile @Sevak @Zacatero @Kaezir @Chalsie @Sir_Daragon @Nekoii @Ninja124r (Tag people who you think would have some input on this too)

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

I'd say tag the rockets but not the Elytras themselves.

 

[Zacatero]

I dont think this is really necessary. Elytras allow for more diversity in PVP. I understand it allows people to get away faster, but its also nerfed by the fact that they already lost that chestplate's worth of armor so if you are potted up coming at me, i wont have time to get away, plus theyd need the rockets to get away that people dont always carry.

Also from the other side, when using an elytra in pvp, it adds another class of potential fighters that i dont think is worth giving up for the occasional time when somebody can escape with one.

 

[Alj23]

Nah. Elytras add a new element to PVP. I personally can't comprehend how someone uses them to escape raiders (I haven't seen someone do this, it just sounds extremely hard). I mean, you'd need enough time to switch your chestplate out for the elytra, get rockets ready, and jump off of somewhere high enough to get air to use the rockets. If they have that much time, they've probably got enough time to /f home since it's obvious they've lost you long enough to get out.

If you don't like people using elytras to escape, get out a bow and try to shoot them down. They've already got reduced armor because they're using the elytra. Adapt and overcome.

 

[Chalsie]

Combat tagging elytras makes sense to me because I have personally seen a player at low health run mid-combat, and fly up and away to avoid death. It happened quickly and the person made it look easy. I don't remember who it was unfortunately. New pvp element or not, abuse of rocket-powered elytra to essentially combat-log, needs a remedy.

 

[Kaezir]

Elytras allow for more diversity in PVP.

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Nah. Elytras add a new element to PVP.

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It's not so much diversity as it is an instant escape. Atleast with pearls you can try and meet your pearl with their's. I personally support this. All you need is a level one block lower than yours and bam, you're safe. Not too mention you never have to land with rocket propelled elytra's once you're in the air.

 

[Zacatero]

It's not so much diversity as it is an instant escape. Atleast with pearls you can try and meet your pearl with their's. I personally support this. All you need is a level one block lower than yours and bam, you're safe. Not too mention you never have to land with rocket propelled elytra's once you're in the air.

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But the chances that somebody just happens to have an elytra with rockets ready when theyre ambushed are so slim it doesnt make a whole lot of sense to get rid of the PVP aspect of it that ive seen people use. And if somebody happens to get away then let em lol. I mean is it really a worthy kill if youve taken away 2/3 main ways of escape? Lets let some stuff happen and not always jump to disable it.

I see no reason to disable the fun of having an elytra to use IN PvP like i do very often, in favor of killing somebody who just wants to escape. That just makes no sense to me.

 

[Kaezir]

But the chances that somebody just happens to have an elytra with rockets ready when theyre ambushed are so slim

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Not in my experience. They either have it from the get go or start to wear it continuously if they didn't already before.

And using a rocket elytra to PvP isn't so much PvP as it is someone every few seconds swooping down to shoot you once or land a pot on you before flying away again to rinse and repeat. And you can't counter by having a rocket elytra yourself. Just two people flying around.

 

[Zacatero]

It just seems to me like every time something is keeping somebody from landing a kill, its immediately suggested to remove it.

I bet theres gonna be a thread to tag massivemagic too once that comes out.

 

[Zacatero]

I mean id agree to it if the combat flag was reduced back to 30s.

 

[soapboxstage]

@Notepad95

 

[Sevak]

Toku I completely agree. At least disable being able to propel yourself with a bow/rockets in combat so the player can't just fly a way completely...

 

[Chalsie]

I mean id agree to it if the combat flag was reduced back to 30s.

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Sure that works for me.
Also it's really easy to take flight with these rocket powered elytras. You don't even need to be a block up...flat ground and you can be up in the air in a second.

 

[Devoruku]

Tagging Flight PvP is a bit of a stupid idea, I can see your point that its hard to fight back when someone moves like someone from Attack on Titan but from someone who spends all their days murdering friendlies or even your own allies id expect you spending the time like I have trying to learn the art of "Elytra PvP". It can be good to use potions, bows or even a knockback axe on them. The rocket themselves would be a problem to flag as that collides with distress fireworks iv seen some facs use. Also flight PvP can allow some people to fight back easier, mainly when massivemagic comes out we can become what I call "flight mages", fighting, flying and casting at once would make a great war.
For someone who loves killing please understand its a way for Fac RPers to escape you, if you don't like it start flying with a axe in your hand~
- Devoruku

 

[Sevak]

Sure that works for me.
Also it's really easy to take flight with these rocket powered elytras. You don't even need to be a block up...flat ground and you can be up in the air in a second.

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I'm not sure why combat tag was ever changed in the first place. I'd love to change it back

 

[FireFan96]

As someone who actually uses Elytra for bombing runs, it's only effective for so long (if at all)

Firstly, you will hardly ever hit your target when gliding, since as soon as you line up your shot, you're already 15 blocks ahead of it, you could try to readjust, but then you end up slamming into the ground. Good luck trying to kill some people when you're missing your largest armor piece; you will die.

Secondly, which is basically an extension of the first case, you're extremely limited to two or three options. Pots don't work because a) you have to aim, which unless you have the best sense of timing ever will never happen, or b) the pots hit you. That leaves you with a bow and a fireball, which I've covered already.

As for people attempting to flee a combat situation, yeah it kinda sucks. But so does hiding behind a door or tping to regalia. At least with elytra you have a chance to kill the runaway before they take off (in my experience from trying to get airborne again, I only succeed around 25% of the time. The rest of it is me getting axed or shot in the back.)

I'm of the opinion that PvP shouldn't be limited to being within 3 blocks of each other. Maybe bombing runs could be a new concept, but it's being undermined by the ones who decide to run away from a fight. I don't think it's fair to limit the experience of people who want to try an alternative method of combat, even if it's not very effective. So by disabling Elytra in combat, I'd say it's alienating the few oddballs like me who want to see if there's a different way to fight besides melee.

 

[Tokuu]

Nah. Elytras add a new element to PVP. I personally can't comprehend how someone uses them to escape raiders (I haven't seen someone do this, it just sounds extremely hard). I mean, you'd need enough time to switch your chestplate out for the elytra, get rockets ready, and jump off of somewhere high enough to get air to use the rockets. If they have that much time, they've probably got enough time to /f home since it's obvious they've lost you long enough to get out.

If you don't like people using elytras to escape, get out a bow and try to shoot them down. They've already got reduced armor because they're using the elytra. Adapt and overcome.

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I'm going to reply to this in stages, if that's okay.

It's exceedingly easy to get away, people just wear the elytra alongside three other pieces of god armour around their faction, as soon as they're hit by a raider, they just jump and spam fireworks, and they're away before they can be killed. This isn't a new element to PvP, it's bypassing it completely.

Secondly, I challenge you to hit anyone using a rocket elytra with a bow. It's nigh impossible due to the fly speed. Plus, a bow does around 3-4 hearts, so you have to hit them with 3 successive shots to kill them, without factoring in regen they get from their food.

 

[65jes89]

I'm going to reply to this in stages, if that's okay.

It's exceedingly easy to get away, people just wear the elytra alongside three other pieces of god armour around their faction, as soon as they're hit by a raider, they just jump and spam fireworks, and they're away before they can be killed. This isn't a new element to PvP, it's bypassing it completely.

Secondly, I challenge you to hit anyone using a rocket elytra with a bow. It's nigh impossible due to the fly speed. Plus, a bow does around 3-4 hearts, so you have to hit them with 3 successive shots to kill them, without factoring in regen they get from their food.

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^^^
Unless you're shooting a target that's afk, there's 0 chance you're going to hit anyone enough to make any real difference.

 

[Zacatero]

Secondly, I challenge you to hit anyone using a rocket elytra with a bow. It's nigh impossible due to the fly speed. Plus, a bow does around 3-4 hearts, so you have to hit them with 3 successive shots to kill them, without factoring in regen they get from their food.

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^^

I mean ive gotten good at it and id say i get a hit twice as much as a normal person but still its difficult

 

[FireFan96]

Also difficult for eltrya users to hit people as well

Granted the complaints are centered around runaways, but like I said, people will always try to flee when they're losing, which I find to be the bigger issue.

 

[Kaezir]

Also difficult for eltrya users to hit people as well

Granted the complaints are centered around runaways, but like I said, people will always try to flee when they're losing, which I find to be the bigger issue.

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Naw. Ive been raiding the last two weeks a faction that has people using elytras daily. They never missed pots. If they got bored they'd fly out of player render range then suddenly you'd be hit by a few arrows trying to find the roof top they landed on. You could try and pearl up there but they'd already be flying to the next roof top.

 

[Zacatero]

so is there any way we can compromise with this

Pvp tag the elytra and rockets but reduce the combat flag down to 30 seconds?

 

[Kaezir]

so is there any way we can compromise with this

Pvp tag the elytra and rockets but reduce the combat flag down to 30 seconds?

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I am fine with this. The only part I dislike is that I get someone down to 20% and they're just gone. They should have the option to escape, it just shouldnt be guarenteed.

 

[Zacatero]

The only part I dislike is that I get someone down to 20% and they're just gone.

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In my compromised edition, that would be solved since you are actively hitting them, but now somebody doesnt have to wait an entire minute to escape.

 

[Notepad95]

I still use bows, not rockets. I find them better for long term flight. Also, thank you CPT for tagging me this. Another fun thing to do with elytra is the fireball trait.

 

[Zacatero]

I still use bows, not rockets. I find them better for long term flight.

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Its not a matter of opinion, its simply factual.. rockets are better lol.... you can travel further on a single rocket with no damage and you have to shoot urself... it just makes no sense to use bow over rockets

 

[Omnomivore]

I recall discussing this suggestion with Gethelp previously. It would be possible to combat tag Elytra (prevent people with a combat flag from taking off with them) but if they were already flying and combat tagged it is impossible to stop them from flying (so you can't shoot someone in the air and have them plummet to the ground). We may bring this suggestion up to the Direction department for review.

 

[Parz1vol]

I recall discussing this suggestion with Gethelp previously. It would be possible to combat tag Elytra (prevent people with a combat flag from taking off with them) but if they were already flying and combat tagged it is impossible to stop them from flying (so you can't shoot someone in the air and have them plummet to the ground). We may bring this suggestion up to the Direction department for review.

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That would actually be perfect just as it is? That way people can do bombing runs and all that cool fun stuff, but can't escape with their wings.

 

[65jes89]

I recall discussing this suggestion with Gethelp previously. It would be possible to combat tag Elytra (prevent people with a combat flag from taking off with them) but if they were already flying and combat tagged it is impossible to stop them from flying (so you can't shoot someone in the air and have them plummet to the ground). We may bring this suggestion up to the Direction department for review.

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That's fine, more or less impossible to hit anyone on elytra anyways.