Archived Changes On The Magic/trustee System?

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MassiveCraft is a great server, without a doubt one of the best roleplaying servers out there; but I just have one problem that I wish could be changed; with you reading the title I can assume that you know exactly what I am talking about, magic, if magic could be more accessible to roleplayers instead of having your name subject to a meeting would be great. I do know the consequences of having it accessible to everyone and how easily they can abuse it. I still think that there could be ways of balancing it so more players could have at least a shot at using magic or the trustee permissions that are granted to them

Although, the system that MassiveCraft has right now is fantastic and works well, which all of you might know; the Trustee Permissions. I believe the problem with this is that only the best/social roleplayers can be apart of it; it eliminates the chances for players that believe mages are their greatest picks for roleplaying or any of the stuff that is listed on the thread. I also think it makes it harder to become a well-known roleplayer, and only the most social roleplayers will be able to take part of. Whilst the Trustee players will have a bigger chance of being known is because they have something that others don't which makes their characters unique instead of being a Turall Champion, which isn't as unique and will probably have a harder time of being known; If you aren't good at being social or don't have a social character I think makes it harder because you'll have to be social and if not you'll never have the chance of becoming a Trustee and that's what I don't like about it, you have to be social. I know it states on the thread that you have to be a social character and cannot be a person who reads a book all the time in the tavern, expecting people to come up to them and talk to them. I just think there could be ways of avoiding it so you don't always have to be social. And I know that there are players who play characters that don't take advantage of it and become quite well-known to guard charters for their crimes.

I believe a way that can make it so everyone at least has a chance of taking advantage of the trustee permission is to make it accessible to most people on MassiveCraft but must have the following requirements or just an example of what I think it should look like (This is a requirement/covenant, not an application! Meaning it's not a right! And can or will be revoked if that player abuses the permission!):

• Has been roleplaying for more than five months on MassiveCraft (More or less)
  
• Has to make a character application that is in which approved so they don't abuse it; similar to the old special permission system. (Decreases the chances of mages to be seen everywhere)
  
• If any punishments were given to this person within the following year that has been related to roleplay will not be able to make one or has clearly changed and has been proven to staff (Has to wait a year or depends on the severity of the problem)
• If they break this covenant their permission will be revoked and will have to apply and state why they want to be pardoned.
• Doesn't have a horrible OOC reputation
  
• Age requirement (Optional)
• Has the ability to create constructive emotes and not just "Smiles+" unless if it's completely necessary to do so. (Optional)
• Will have to emote at least (three, more or less) times to cast so one doesn't just find themselves haunted for life because one just randomly shown up and decided to cast a spell on him for the fun of it. (This basically avoids any powergaming and godrp)

The thing that I didn't add is that you do not have to be social and don't need to be well-known. There is a chance that this adds more paperwork, but I think the pay off for giving people the privilege will be better outcome than the paperwork. A problem that might be encountered is that there will be too many mages or people who take advantage of this, and if that is so why would that be considered a problem when there are already a ton of players having at least one combatants. And if that doesn't defeat that argument, then why care? Why care if people who are roleplaying with mages that aren't abusing it and appear to be quite good with roleplaying with them.

In conclusion, I believe this will make MassiveCraft more friendly to those who aren't as social to those who are, and doesn't discriminate to those who don't have the confidence in becoming a social roleplayer or pioneer roleplay. The benefit of adding this will create a bigger impact for people who are able to use mages effectively.

I am open to all constructive criticism but saying it's just shit without giving an explicit reason to why it is something that I don't want. And if you find any problems with what I said, please explain why and how it will be a problem; I'll try my best to see how I can resolve such problems from affecting MassiveCraft. The only thing I want when you reply to this thread is to think of the benefits and disadvantages of why it's bad; this goes the same with agreeing on it, saying "I agree fully with this" will just flood the thread because it doesn't explain why you agree with this. And I know this thread sounds very ignorant of me, and in which I don't even care if it's implemented and if I don't match the requirements, as long as it's more accessible to players who don't have to be social or know how to easily pioneer roleplay will be fine with me.

With me posting this please do not think that I hate MassiveCraft because of this reason, I will still enjoy MassiveCraft even if staff or you don't agree with this post, as long as they think about it I'll be fine with any constructive criticism. If players/staff think they can change the system or the requirements, feel free to do so. If you think the current system is fine as it is, that's alright but post why you think it's fine and not just "I think the system is fine as it is, no changes needed" Doesn't explain why you explicitly think it is.

IMPORTANT, If this system fails and a bunch of people have mage characters, like in the past (This should be balanced with that you're in need to make a character application to have a mage, in which in the last system you didn't need a character application to make a mage, unless if it was hidden magic) then feel free to remove this system and restore the old system if this is ever implemented; or just make a few changes and corrections. And if you think some magics are just too overpowered for players to take, then don't allow them to use and have the Trustee system for those types of magics.

Please do not personally attack me or flood the post with basically the same reply to what the person stated above you. All I am trying to do here is make these permissions more accessible to those that can actually take use of such permissions and privileges.

TL;DL

• All I request/suggest is that magic, witchbloods, and anything that isn't too overpowered to be at least more accessible to roleplayers, even if they don't have the ability to cast most of the spells on the wiki will be fine with me, as long as you're able to have a character that is at least is able to be a mage is fine with me.
• I believe there could be changes made to the Trustee Permission thread that can help players receive such privileges.

Thank you.

 

[SorryNari]

Doesn't have a horrible OOC or IC reputation

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Could you elaborate on the IC reputation? Does this mean that they cannot have a villainous/infamous character?

 

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Could you elaborate on the IC reputation? Does this mean that they cannot have a villainous/infamous character?

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Edited, I didn't mean to state IC, sorry!

 

[FireFan96]

Not sure if you came across this thread, but this thread and doc should have remedied everything mentioned: https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/trustee-system-revision.64634/

 

[Lumbo]

Not sure if you came across this thread, but this thread and doc should have remedied everything mentioned: https://forums.massivecraft.com/threads/trustee-system-revision.64634/

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I haven't saw that thread but it still means you have to be social "You need to have community presence. Without the player base having a solid idea of who you are and what kind of roleplay you do, you cannot be given trust by the staff. As such, it is important that you elevate yourself above the common Tavern passive roleplayer, and show your capacity to drive roleplay and entertain others with your roleplay." Still, at least to me, doesn't defeat what I've said; I suggested that you don't have to be a well-known or social roleplayer.

If that what I've said solves that. Anyway, most of the stuff on that doc will probably be added to the covenant.

 

[GoodDreamer]

• Has been roleplaying for more than five months on MassiveCraft (More or less)

• Has to make a character application that is in which approved so they don't abuse it; similar to the old special permission system. (Decreases the chances of mages to be seen everywhere)

• If any punishments were given to this person within the following year that has been related to roleplay will not be able to make one or has clearly changed and has been proven to staff (Has to wait a year or depends on the severity of the problem)

• If they break this covenant their permission will be revoked and will have to apply and state why they want to be pardoned.

• Doesn't have a horrible OOC reputation

• Age requirement (Optional)

• Has the ability to create constructive emotes and not just "Smiles+" unless if it's completely necessary to do so. (Optional)

• Will have to emote at least (three, more or less) times to cast so one doesn't just find themselves haunted for life because one just randomly shown up and decided to cast a spell on him for the fun of it. (This basically avoids any powergaming and godrp)

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I fit, to my knowledge, every one of these requirements. So do dozens of people in the Crime General chat, and that's just the people I speak to. A great many people fit this requirement, and a large number of those people would be inclined to make a mage if they could. Mages are interesting now because there are so few of them. Mages lead Great Gangs, run Clinics, and serve important roles to the roleplay community here on Massive. Before, when everyone was a mage, they were irrelevant. There was this constant pull and push between mages and anti-mages because at some point, every character knew magic. I personally like this new system, where magic and mages are scary and powerful and mysterious. It makes such characters more important and makes mages less of a powergaming meme.

 

[Lumbo]

I fit, to my knowledge, every one of these requirements. So do dozens of people in the Crime General chat, and that's just the people I speak to. A great many people fit this requirement, and a large number of those people would be inclined to make a mage if they could. Mages are interesting now because there are so few of them. Mages lead Great Gangs, run Clinics, and serve important roles to the roleplay community here on Massive. Before, when everyone was a mage, they were irrelevant. There was this constant pull and push between mages and anti-mages because at some point, every character knew magic. I personally like this new system, where magic and mages are scary and powerful and mysterious. It makes such characters more important and makes mages less of a powergaming meme.

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The Trustee update makes it so there will be more combatants, like almost everyone on MassiveCraft had either have or made a martially inclined character (It's an assumption, but most of the roleplays that I've been in was a fighter or mage), it limits the possibilities of the people who aren't apart of it to not be struck down to one thing, which is the combat schools, if you want to be apart of a fight you either have to be a mage or fighter (There are probably more options but aren't as relevant to the two)

With adding the system that I asked it gives the ability for characters to not all be a combatants when they want to be apart of a fight, sure magic can be annoying when it's not used properly but it goes the same with fighting; you won't want one person fighting two people to argue that they should win because they have higher proficiency points than one of the people in that fight. And that's why you also need to emote three times to cast (More or less) to stop people from powergaming.

The character application will decline the chances of godrp/mary-sue and powergaming because it explains how you will be playing this character and not be using him/she for all kind of uses. It also limits meme roleplay because most of the people who don't take roleplay seriously won't be making an application and will rather just kill off their character if they believe they've became irrelevant. And if they continue to meme roleplay? Then report them for just being an annoyance in general or warn them.

And if they're too powerful I have two solutions to it; create an item that weakens or nulls magic usages meaning if it was for instance holy water; if you splash it on them they'll have a harder time to cast or they'll have to roll. Another solution would be to keep the trustee system for the more powerful spells that can wipe out an entire crowd with one cast.

 

[Suzzie]

Man, I'm going to sound really pretentious when I say this. But I think I enjoy the trustee system as is. It creates a limit on something that naturally, really should be limited. You bring up that the trustee system makes for more combatants. I think this is actually entirely realistic with the Regalian scene.

• Regalia is an anti-magic state. You're not really likely to see a plethora of mages. Even with approved character applications being a requirement, the current number of mages would likely double or triple. Too many is a problem.
• Regalia is also a military state (? last I checked). Most characters being a fighter makes sense. Or a scholar even.

Yeah, it limits creativity at times, but it also creates a scene in the process. Mages are uncommon, and they feel uncommon. I remember back when everyone and their grandma had magic- It lost its purpose and value, essentially becoming a 'must have' accessory. I really don't want a repeat of that.

create an item that weakens or nulls magic usages

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Lapis, Bluesteel. A bluesteel sword next to a mage can cancel their magic entirely.

 

[Lumbo]

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I understand that it is a militaristic state, but I dislike how almost everyone who I ever roleplayed with knows some sort of combat school. And if so what's so annoying with having a multiple mages? As long as they don't break the rules I don't understand the problem with it, the last system is when you didn't need a character application and the highest level you could've got was Mage without a character application.

I still support the Trustee System, but if it could just be more accessible to players would be better; what I am trying to say is that I just want people to have the ability to at least be able to be a Trainee or Novice without having to be a trustee; if we keep the trustee system for more of the advance spells will be great and I'll fully support that without a word of doubt.

And, of course there will be a lot of people who will become a mage, but in need of making a character application should at least decrease the chances of Regalia being flooded with mages.

If everyone actually follows the rules, I don't think it will ruin roleplay, in fact, I believe it will add more creativity and uniqueness to their characters, but they won't be able to become an archmage or have use of the most powerful spells. And if they become a huge problem why not be a witchblood and take advantage of the roleplaying possibilities that you'll have?

Lapis, Bluesteel. A bluesteel sword next to a mage can cancel their magic entirely.

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What I meant was a liquid substance like holy water, a simply throw at a mage and the mage will have a harder time to cast, basically avoids anyone that thinks casting right in front of someone is a good idea.

 

[leafnosedbat]

Man, I'm going to sound really pretentious when I say this. But I think I enjoy the trustee system as is. It creates a limit on something that naturally, really should be limited. You bring up that the trustee system makes for more combatants. I think this is actually entirely realistic with the Regalian scene.

• Regalia is an anti-magic state. You're not really likely to see a plethora of mages. Even with approved character applications being a requirement, the current number of mages would likely double or triple. Too many is a problem.
• Regalia is also a military state (? last I checked). Most characters being a fighter makes sense. Or a scholar even.

Yeah, it limits creativity at times, but it also creates a scene in the process. Mages are uncommon, and they feel uncommon. I remember back when everyone and their grandma had magic- It lost its purpose and value, essentially becoming a 'must have' accessory. I really don't want a repeat of that.


Lapis, Bluesteel. A bluesteel sword next to a mage can cancel their magic entirely.

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While it's definitely true that many systems in place help keep Regalia feeling "realistic", I think there's a broader conversation to be had about whether Regalia should be the way it is. In an RPG, you generally want your "core" setting to allow for as many different concepts as possible. Then you can have more specialized regions that impose restrictions. Regalia, as an anti-magic hyper-militaristic state, lends itself to a few specific types of characters, with everything else being an outlier. Concepts introduced elsewhere in the lore (non-human races, other religions, magic) are all illegal or ostracized in our core setting, leading to this weird situation where building a character around significant chunks of the lore leaves your character a 2nd class citizen.

To compare this to a popular RPG, it's a bit like if 3/4 of the quests in Skyrim were easily accessible to martial Nords and Imperials, while playing as anything else required significant hoop-jumping to experience any of the main quests. Again, this set up makes sense in-universe, but from a broader game-design perspective, it's not that fun of a setting to be stuck roleplaying in. At least not that fun for everyone.

 

[GoodDreamer]

The Trustee update makes it so there will be more combatants, like almost everyone on MassiveCraft had either have or made a martially inclined character (It's an assumption, but most of the roleplays that I've been in was a fighter or mage), it limits the possibilities of the people who aren't apart of it to not be struck down to one thing, which is the combat schools, if you want to be apart of a fight you either have to be a mage or fighter (There are probably more options but aren't as relevant to the two)

With adding the system that I asked it gives the ability for characters to not all be a combatants when they want to be apart of a fight, sure magic can be annoying when it's not used properly but it goes the same with fighting; you won't want one person fighting two people to argue that they should win because they have higher proficiency points than one of the people in that fight. And that's why you also need to emote three times to cast (More or less) to stop people from powergaming.

The character application will decline the chances of godrp/mary-sue and powergaming because it explains how you will be playing this character and not be using him/she for all kind of uses. It also limits meme roleplay because most of the people who don't take roleplay seriously won't be making an application and will rather just kill off their character if they believe they've became irrelevant. And if they continue to meme roleplay? Then report them for just being an annoyance in general or warn them.

And if they're too powerful I have two solutions to it; create an item that weakens or nulls magic usages meaning if it was for instance holy water; if you splash it on them they'll have a harder time to cast or they'll have to roll. Another solution would be to keep the trustee system for the more powerful spells that can wipe out an entire crowd with one cast.

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Locking Magic behind Trustee hasn't made any sort of dent in the population of martially inclined characters. In fact, the abundance of magic just meant that your character HAD to be an Expert Turall/Veridian/God-of-War to even survive in combat-prone zones. When your enemies can cast fireballs, you need to be impressive as well, especially considering most mages were also trained in schools of combat. The removal of magic from the common population killed the mentality of "If I'm not magic, I'm crazy skilled in X form of combat".

Combat now is pretty smooth. If you have a significantly higher skill level in a weapon of similar or greater size to your foe, you should win. It's that simple. A trained swordsman will beat an untrained swordsman, and now we can measure skill.

Last time, it was often common courtesy to wait at least three or so turns before casting any sort of significant spell, but when everyone has magic, it gets competitive. The result is people "Muttering spell under their breath+" to avoid repercussions, and their victims eventually reacting to unfair attacks that they shouldn't be able to see. It was annoying and gave Sewer RP a horrible reputation for powergaming and silly OOC feuds over combat. You don't get those problems with weapons because you can't hide anything that isn't meant to be hidden. Not easily, at least.

Magic, as it is now, is fair and balanced. It's not overpowered, it's not abused, it's fine. Making it weak for the population just means that people will pick their favorite spells and stack them on top of highly skilled combat characters to compensate. We don't need that.

We also don't want Crowd Killer spells. There's no RP in someone KO'ing 40 Roleplayers because "Trustee". That's Arken level power. Let the Arken keep it.

I think people who don't have Trustee should make characters from the Races with magical abilities. The new elves will be coming out soon. Why not give them some love? The Shendar had some wonderful magical abilities. As did the Wolothar. No one used them, despite accecable to the population and potentially very powerful. Don't pass up the new opportunities.

 

[Conflee]

What I meant was a liquid substance like holy water, a simply throw at a mage and the mage will have a harder time to cast, basically avoids anyone that thinks casting right in front of someone is a good idea.

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Holy Water is a thing, though it has to be obtained from the Church, and only works against Void related things. (void magic, vampires, phantasmas, etc).

 

[Lumbo]

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Well, can't you just make it so you have to do hand gestures? Like keeping a normal pose to cast or stance because I think "Mutters in his breath" can easily be avoided and if you don't want to to roleplay with those type of people, why not just avoid them?

All CRP is competitive, at least the ones that I've experienced; I believe most things in roleplay is competitive, and what's so bad about competition? I mean... You are in a fight so you should be expecting a competition.

How is magic fair? There are only a few select of people who can use it, and the majority of people who "Mutters in their breath" can easily be dismissed because they don't fit the requirements which states

Has the ability to create constructive emotes and not just "Smiles+" unless if it's completely necessary to do so.

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We also don't want Crowd Killer spells. There's no RP in someone KO'ing 40 Roleplayers because "Trustee". That's Arken level power. Let the Arken keep it.

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You need to have supreme permissions to play an Arken. And with me stating

Another solution would be to keep the trustee system for the more powerful spells that can wipe out an entire crowd with one cast.

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Should also dismiss that too.

I think people who don't have Trustee should make characters from the Races with magical abilities. The new elves will be coming out soon. Why not give them some love? The Shendar had some wonderful magical abilities. As did the Wolothar. No one used them, despite accecable to the population and potentially very powerful. Don't pass up the new opportunities.

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Hence the main reason why Ch'ien-Ji are underplayed. Why play a race in which involves mostly around magic while you are unable OOCly use magic?

Holy Water is a thing, though it has to be obtained from the Church, and only works against Void related things. (void magic, vampires, phantasmas, etc).

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I know, I stated it in the paragraph that a liquid like substance like holy water will affect mages; affecting exist magic.

 

[GoodDreamer]

Well, can't you just make it so you have to do hand gestures? Like keeping a normal pose to cast or stance because I think "Mutters in his breath" can easily be avoided and if you don't want to to roleplay with those type of people, why not just avoid them?

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We had that too. It did little to help.

All CRP is competitive, at least the ones that I've experienced; I believe most things in roleplay is competitive, and what's so bad about competition? I mean... You are in a fight so you should be expecting a competition.

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Let me rephrase that. IC competitivity is good. I'm all down for characters and groups competing with each other. The problem was that the competition was OOC and it was non-stop. With magic being as rare as it is, people focus less on the individual power of characters (such as skills and abilities) and more on the power of a group or gang. Re-introduce magic and you get that power-creep that Massive struggling with during the Sewer era. Mages needed to get stronger because they were vulnerable to fighters and fighters needed to get stronger because they were vulnerable to mages. That led to the crime RP scene having absolutely no actual crime characters and being stuck with expert mages and fighters that merged together for daily bloodfests. It was this constant rock-paper-scissors match between fighters, mages, and the occasional flood of anti-mages as a pallet cleanser. I like what we have going for us now a whole lot better.

How is magic fair? There are only a few select of people who can use

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The magic schools themselves are fair. Being a high-level mage does not make you a god like it did before, with super-beasts and rock titans and all the other stuff. That's more what I was talking about. Still, even though it's limited, I think it's fair. If you want to be a mage, prove yourself competent and become Trustee. I've seen people who have been on for less than a fourth of the time I've been here get Trustee. It's not a mountain, it's a hill.

You need to have supreme permissions to play an Arken.

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Lore Staff level permission, I think. The average Trustee does not deserve the powers that an Arken has. Nor is the ability to knock out a crowd even remotely good for roleplay aside from pre-planned events where the players are supposed to watch more than interact. No reason to hand that out like candy to Trustee members.

Hence the main reason why Ch'ien-Ji are underplayed. Why play a race in which involves mostly around magic while you are unable OOCly use magic?

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I wasn't talking about Ch'ien-Ji. I was talking about Shendar and Wolathar, who both had magical abilities. Ch'ien-Ji never granted you magical abilities beyond a faster magic learning ability. I don't even know if they still have that. Anyhow, they're getting rewritten, as are the Shendar, Wolathar, and the Saivalthar. We'll see what we get then, but the point was missed. We have one race that gave you healing and Gem-style fusion, and another that can wood-bend. These could have been very popular powers, but they weren't, so those races are getting fused together. We currently have a race that can cancel out magic, another that copies traits from specific races, two mimic the forms of other beings, one that mimics the learned abilities of others, and a final that changes according to the environment it lives in (though the Maiar may not be here for much longer). Not all of them are exactly what you wanted, but they're races that have their own, independent abilities that don't rely on Trustee.

 

[MonMarty]

I'm happy with the current Trustee formulation since the last review. Trusteeship or Special Perms are a reward incentive for players to help make the server a better place, not a basic right. I think a lot of the disconnect comes when someone thinks being a Trustee is a natural right they should have instead of the privilege that it is, granted (or applied) to people who make the server a better place in a meaningful way than just being a nice person.

There are plenty of Trustees who are counted as people who aren't super social and very recluse, but they still find very personalized ways to make the server a better place for everyone.

 

[Lumbo]

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I respect the criticism, although I do not think you've fully understood what I meant, perhaps I didn't say it enough and was hidden in one sentence or two.

I still want Trustee Permissions to exist, although having players to have the ability to even have the connection between either exist or void magic, I'll will be satisfied. Although, I don't want everyone to have be granted overpowered spells, just the ones that are more for background characters, for an example construct magic, it's not really used offensively and can add little spice to people's roleplay. Allowing other players to cast niche spells could possibly change a lot of different people's roleplay, at least with what I picture.

@MonMarty