Archived Changes On How The Kill Perms Work

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RememberTheGame

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So this is an idea, like my previous one, except this is a little more pieced together.
If I was to describe the Roleplay population in Regalia, I would say; Generic Hero Wannabe's.
It's the most annoying thing in roleplay, because everybody wants to roleplay the perfect person, they like to remove the words flaw and play like the perfect badass which nobody can bring down and I think this is allowed to thrive because of Kill Perms. I'm not saying, let anybody kill anybody, that would be pure anarchy, what i'm saying is making people capable of dying without giving their permission. Make a forum or something, like the Special Permissions, which would offer players to give a lengthy post of evidence and the reason they would like to kill this character, staff could decide if this character dies, overriding the actual person's decision. Now, there would be certain parts of this. Like, Approved characters are only allowed to kill, something like this because it would show their capability to do so or, Approved Characters are instantly voided from this, the only way they can die is by Guard or his or her own hand or something like that.

I think this system should be implemented just because of Realism and I know Realism isn't really a key factor in Massives lore, it contains magic, vampires and lizards that eat rock, but it would help make role play experiences more Authentic. No more would people charge into a roleplay battle but naked unarmed against an army of armed personnel and somehow survive with minor scratches, if the character's life would not be in their own hands, which will make them think about what they will do. Also, Staff can instantly override this system, meaning they can kill without approval from the Forums, because I would hope, they would know when they should kill and not go killing every possible person on earth or whatever MassiveCraft's lore resides on.


The way it would work is.

You would start off with an application similar to the Special Applications app, state your name, approved character link, person you would like to kill and why you would like to do so, with proof. This would then be publicly shown, others can contribute to why they want this person killed, the person who they want to be killed does not have to be approved and such.

Two staff members would have to give approval, if one does, they can harm this person badly (E.G. Take off a limb) and if two members say yes, they can execute/murder this character.

Also, all staff members would have to write down everyone they killed with a time, what happened (Screenshots of why and when they did it.) and such, just to make sure somebody doesn't silently going on a killing spree because I know I would, character detail and such, makes making a Serial Killer character so easy.

As said before, this is an idea. Probably didn't say that before actually, probably mentioned it as something bold but yeah, could be majorly refined. I'm just pitching this idea, maybe try it privately. I just think, it might help with the characters who beast through everything, knowing they will survive because of Roleplay Etiquette. It's a blessing and curse, hopefully, this could help refine it.
 
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How to kill crime rp completly step one:
making people capable of dying without giving their permission.

Tell me how fair that is towards people? especialy if you just had your character aproved?
your idea just screams no to me. I strongly sugest to re-read what you wrote and have some deep toughts about it.
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Please, please, please, please, pleaseeeeeee never use italics on an entire paragraph. It's just hard to read.

Now, on to the killing.. well, it's just not going to happen. I could write a list of reasons for this, but I'm sure someone else will do it for me.
 
I'd like to respond, but I'm not sure I fully understand this. Could you write up an example of when you feel it would be acceptable for someone to make a post like 'hey i want to kill so and so'? Just so I have some clarity, because like said before, this seems like a quick way to kill off crime RP.

Let's take for example my crime character Adelaida. She goes to mug someone in the streets. She could be thrown in jail by the violets, or she could get away with it. The person takes this OOC and comes to the forums, trying to kill off Adelaida for what she did. It's approved, and I lose my character.

This is what it sounds like you're trying to go at, and I don't see why this could be beneficial for anybody.
 
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I'm pretty sure if I was an average player and a staff told me my character was going to die because someone else wrote up a good explanation and filed the proper paperwork, I'd immediately leave the server. Character killing is not good. In any situation. Period. It doesn't provide anything but a power fantasy for those who do the killing, and only in very rare situations does it actually lead to character development for the others involved. The losses on the other hand in terms of a player not being able to continue with a character are too great. And then we're not even going to look into the matter of how fair it is that someone else tells you you can't play a certain character anymore.

We will NEVER change the character death rules. We pride ourselves in being different from so many other servers where players can just nilly willy inflict character death.
 
Character killing is not good. In any situation. Period. It doesn't provide anything but a power fantasy for those who do the killing, and only in very rare situations does it actually lead to character development for the others involved. The losses on the other hand in terms of a player not being able to continue with a character are too great. And then we're not even going to look into the matter of how fair it is that someone else tells you you can't play a certain character anymore.

I'll play the devil's advocate here, or in this case OP's. In a sense, and partially why I abandoned combat RP myself, a lot of people dive into situations where character death is the most logical option, and anything else is realism-bending to a degree that's just silly.

Neither the problem nor the solution lies solely in the 'kill or not to kill' question, the real problem is kill perms being incentives for diving into such a situation. A viable solution I found for combat RP was simply telling someone who seems to be wanting to start a fight the circumstances and the possible outcomes, if character death is quite likely. In most situations doing so also avoids the 'hidden weapons revealed' and 'secret armour unraveled' issues as well.

Let's see three situations, one for how it's now, one for what you suggest and one for what I proposed.

1.
Noble ser Garret and his three companions are talking in an alley.
Vampire John arrives and displays intention to kill
Noble ser Garret draws sword along with his companions
They dwelve into a long-lasting fight
Four armed soldiers overwhelm the single vampire
Vampire John's RP-er refuses kill perms
Noble ser Garret and his companions bend their character intentions a bit and end up tying up Vampire John in an alley to either escape or be found by guards.

2.
Noble ser Garret and his three companions are talking in an alley.
Vampire John arrives and displays intention to kill
Noble ser Garret draws sword along with his companions
They dwelve into a long-lasting fight
Four armed soldiers overwhelm the single vampire
Vampire John's RP-er refuses kill perms
Noble ser Garret asks for the permission of staff because kill is the most logical option and they are 'angry about a throwaway character attacking them'
Staff grant kill perms
The companions impale the vampire
Vampire John's RP-er either mourns the character's passing or starts a new character
The outcome for the companions may be the same even

3.
Noble ser Garret and his three companions are talking in an alley.
Vampire John arrives and displays intention to kill
Noble ser Garret addresses Vampire John's roleplayer OOC. He tells him that because ser Garret is in chainmail and his companions carry weapons, the most likely outcome is the vampire overwhelmed which would bring development to neither party
Vampire John either accepts that and leaves, all happy, or continues the attack and everything reverts to instance #1.

Yet there's a chance that a one-sided combat RP is avoided where Vampire John is inclined to God RP in many ways.
 
"Approved Characters are instantly voided from this" for the first post, i'm not bothered to look up and check, if somebody just got a character approved, they would not be included.

Also, I intended this to act more of a threat than an actual system, it would help characters fall into line, make people actually think realistically. Because you have to admit, new players and old players alike often have one or so character that exists solely to be an badass, doing things no logical person would do and I believe that this happens because people know the chances of their character's death is minimal thanks to the Roleplay etiquette. I pitched this idea for it to be used as a Scare tactic for people to think about what they do with their character.

And @Medvekoma, since i'm like, half understanding this and I think you're trying to ask what scenario I intended this to end in, it would be two. One seemed logical but just doesn't seem medieval to me, judging that Vampirism is a plague and should be looked down upon.

Somebody is @DelsinShane if I missed you. Sorry, half my screen is fucked so I can barely read most of this.
 
what i'm saying is making people capable of dying without giving their permission.
Nonononono. No. This is so unfair, even if approved characters are not included. What if you want to get your character approved, but before you do (These things take time) you get killed. How unfair is that?

I don't know about you, but a lot of people get really into their characters. Having them ripped away without permission or desire is the worst thing. Ever. I even hate killing people as a guard because it sucks to take someone's character away from them.

If someone's character is a mary sue, call them out. Maybe they can change and improve, rather than loosing a character.
 
I used to be on a server that used this rule, actually. Similar to massive, I had Anii as a hunter for magic users, but without Anti-Magic. After chasing down a couple magic characters, he damaged their casting limbs as a temporary breaker such as cutting the palms, or dislocating the shoulder. Although I came into situations in which I logically would not die (such as taking them by surprise or just having the physical upper hand), a staff member came along and murdered him on the spot. The most recent person he hunted submitted this paperwork, insisting he die because of how successful he was. After quite a bit of arguing, I was finally banned for one day. Needless to say, I still haven't even touched it. Who says someone who envies a successful player won't try and submit one like in that situation? What about if 6 characters chased down Anii, tried to murder him in the street as he left to buy more bread for his meal, and when I did not give the perm, they submitted a successful form? They just forced death on my character who, in this situation, was the victim. I did not stab, slap, or threaten anyone. I like to think of myself as a balanced RP'r, but the accepted form just told me to my face that all my time I spent with him is wasted. I personally like the current system; threats and hitting first is instigation, and hopping midway into the battle or the beginning makes you an instigator (helper) as well. Your form simply says anyone can and will die, whether or not they want to fight.
If someone's character is a mary sue, call them out. Maybe they can change and improve, rather than loosing a character.
And, this^. I've had a couple Mary Sue characters on accident, what would I learn after having them die before I got a fair chance to fix them via warning of staff or player? Especially if they are like my other characters; 12 hours of roleplay total, 7 hours of application creation total, then an undefined amount of time waiting for a special permission or approval. That's practically a whole day wasted, right there.
 
Especially if they are like my other characters; 12 hours of roleplay total, 7 hours of application creation total, then an undefined amount of time waiting for a special permission or approval. That's practically a whole day wasted, right there.
one day?
ONE DAY?
i'm doing over a month on my character aplication and i'm not even close to halfway done!
i'm jealous if you can do that
 
Just to be clear, this idea is supposedly designed to be constantly improved so I appreciate the feedback, whether negative or positive, so basically; this would be a lengthy process, hopefully longer than a special application, hopefully not as long as my Special application for Te'Suik because i've been waiting for August from that, but you know, long. It won't happen in a week, probably a month or so. It would take planning, notify the person you want to put on trial, hopefully they see the error of there ways and adapt, this could work, only if its operated correctly.

We all have different opinions, y'all believe in freedom of character (I think that is right.) While I, believe that if people knew their characters life wasn't in there own hands, the roleplay would be a little more realistic, maybe more authentic. I've seen a lot of people leave from nearly the two years i've been here and I think this is something that might make Massive unique again, i've been wondering about leaving because it is the same over and over. It's brilliant but, just. Repetition tends to drive you insane. I'm currently staying because I love this server, but I would hope, this might be something to help make Massive unique again and Massive was unique, until it became well known. Now, you see too many MassiveCraft knock offs.

@Endless_Duress, I tended for this to be a people die everyday, this would be a dick move but it might make roleplay that little bit better, the person doesn't have to be good or bad, they just have to have somebody to hates them enough. How I was hoping it would operate *Changes for the sixteenth time* is basically, the person would display why they want them dead, with his or her approved character inwhich would add some light to why they are doing it (In theory), maybe they are a Psychopath, broken emotionally or maybe they are apart of a gang. Staff would message them that this person has their kill perms temporarily, maybe it lasts for three in real life days, which means if the character is good enough, they could survive this, just like the bounties in Grand Theft Auto V.

I feel like I sort of strolled off subject there, but I didn't remove it because I felt as if it emphasises my point, criticize me all you like, I enjoy the feedback. This idea was obviously not thought out and I accept that. Thanks for the feedback.
 
hopefully not as long as my Special application for Te'Suik because i've been waiting for August from that, but you know, long.

Hi, I noticed you're trying to passive aggressively attack the Lore staff about this. Read below.

While you do not need to apply for a special permission if your character adheres to the guidelines listed on the wiki page, there are a few special permissions that are exempt, and require you to submit individual applications for. These include:

This is quoted from the Special Permission Registry. Not the application system. The part where you Register, which means you're automatically accepted without the need for approval.
 
Hi, I noticed you're trying to passive aggressively attack the Lore staff about this. Read below.



This is quoted from the Special Permission Registry. Not the application system. The part where you Register, which means you're automatically accepted without the need for approval.
I like those colors.
 
If you're concerned that you're roleplaying with someone who is putting themselves in unrealistically dangerous situations because they know they can't die, I would recommend politely telling them that. Talk it out with them. If they aren't listening, walk away.

If you think the server is getting stale and boring, I'm not convinced you're trying to improve your experience much. Are you reading wiki articles and forum announcements? Are you roleplaying with the same people? The same kinds of people?

The system you're proposing, along with edits you've made, are still brimming with potential to powergame and ruin roleplay experiences. In most cases, losing a character doesn't lead to much good on anyone's behalf.

However, it looks like you might be a bit unfamiliar with the current character death rules. You appear to be under the impression that characters cannot die under any circumstances. If you have any questions, we'd be happy to answer them!
 
To be honest, i've been constantly drifting from Roleplays and most of the time, you rarely see any decent roleplayers. Most of the people that helped me when I joined left and when I tried to help new roleplayers, they would disregard everything I said, so I ended up getting tired of that concept as a whole. Plus, I haven't read the death rules for a while now, I just remember people doing every possible thing to keep their character alive, this is why I came up with this.

I intended it to be more of something to stop characters from surviving unlikely scenarios, but anyway, thanks for the input and it has been noted.

Also, @MonMarty, I didn't intentionally attempt to be Passive Aggressive on that one, but sorry anyway for that and thanks for the information about special applications, I must of missed that part.
 
To be honest, i've been constantly drifting from Roleplays and most of the time, you rarely see any decent roleplayers. Most of the people that helped me when I joined left and when I tried to help new roleplayers, they would disregard everything I said, so I ended up getting tired of that concept as a whole. Plus, I haven't read the death rules for a while now, I just remember people doing every possible thing to keep their character alive, this is why I came up with this.

I intended it to be more of something to stop characters from surviving unlikely scenarios, but anyway, thanks for the input and it has

This system how you suggest it wouldn't change the fact that people dive head-first to deadly situations. It would just give handful of people ability to apply for a permission to force death upon other people's characters that might have been around for years and that have been given lots of time, just to end their lives to satisfy one person with a temporal permission for powergaming just because they had time to give an explanation why the character should be killed. Furthermore, killing or maiming one's char isn't the main purpose in Combat RP. It can be fun without anyone being maimed or killed, or in some cases barely given a few scratches aside from some bruises.
 
I don't think this is a good idea for a few reasons.

First off, I think the idea of having a permission written up just to kill someone's character is not a good idea. Yes, it might show some decent intentions to kill a character. But somehow I feel that this might result in some Metagaming and Power RP.

I always have my characters avoid dangerous areas, because they wouldn't go there in their right mind. They refer to have some sort of safety net, like any sane human would. I have encountered some combat RP, though every time me and my opponent usually agreed that death wasn't a good option. Mostly because if the assailant has intent to kill, they also are liable to dying.

All in all, the current system works well. I can't collect any more thought on this matter now, so I'm ending it here.
 
I'd encourage you to read up on our current character death rules, along with special permissions, before you put up arguments against them. You can search them on the wiki.
 
@Ryceria, Sure. Can you lock this thread, because its obvious this isn't a good idea so, no point having to read more messages telling me i'm wrong.
 
In roleplay, I like to work on a system of "Trading paint"

By which I mean, people only get why they put out; you hit me, I hit you. Its all fun fun'

The underlying philosophy though, is if you're just being a lighthearted rogue I'll act like one back.

On the flipside, you're acting like a jackass trying to murder me to show how 'bad ass' you are....well now you hav my nerd wrath.

I believe -everyone- should just follow this idea and the whole kill permissions will be non-issue

If you try to outright exhibit deadly intent to another character, you should accept it coming back at you.

Killing is unsatisfying, much more fulfilling to have a rival for your character than a killcount.
 
much more fulfilling to have a rival for your character than a killcount.
Had a character with a arch enemy once... Best RP days ever...
Then the arch enemy got executed... Even though I had plotted to poison his drinks, and he had probably tried to kill me on several occasions, it was fun... D:
 
Had a character with a arch enemy once... Best RP days ever...
Then the arch enemy got executed... Even though I had plotted to poison his drinks, and he had probably tried to kill me on several occasions, it was fun... D:
My old character on a daily basis.
 
Rejected based on lore staff responses.
 
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