Archived Bring Back Pvp Chat

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Typhenon

Typhenon

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Don't really feel like writing much, but in short I think PvP chat should come back, Ik pretty much all pvpers agree with me on this. This time it should be a chat you're not automatically in so you don't have to see the flame unless you actually join it. No matter what staff does they're never going to get rid of flame, so why not have a separate chat just for it? This way the "family friendliness" of the server can be preserved because all those innocent little boys and girls don't have to see the flame because it'll be in PvP chat. If anything adding PvP chat back makes the server more family friendly. This is because the flame won't be in general chat anymore, hidden from everyone until they join the chat. Those innocent little kids will be seeing the flame in general chat anyways so why not hide their innocent little eyes from it, by tucking it away in a separate chat :3
 
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Thorjl said:
I think staff should be less concerned with upsetting people and more concerned with just squashing crappy behavior as soon as they see it.

I understand player retention is a concern obviously but if you make something a rule you need to enforce it.

Without that framework everything breaks down and you lose players anyway.

If flame becomes a huge issue, turn PVP off for 24 hours. GROUNDED!

Or TP the offenders into a locked room together with PVP turned off so they can just yell at eachother in local til they give up and hug it out.

Enable your moderators not the offenders.

With PVP chat as a sanctuary for crappy behavior and bad sportsmanship or outright harrassment issues will continue.

But that can be said of any channel if it is allowed to become toxic.

If the competitive boasting and taunting (which isn't against any rule yet found) is kept out of general that'd be nice for everyone else.

It really is just gonna come down to moderators either way.

So I vote yes.
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And I'm sure it'll be the likes of you that determines what is and isn't crappy behaviour, right?

Nice try

"Without that framework everything breaks down and you lose players anyway."
Yeah man, you're gonna lose more players to flame than you will by silencing and grounding people.

Are you this thick every day or did you have too much to drink?
 
Synthesia said:
And I'm sure it'll be the likes of you that determines what is and isn't crappy behaviour, right?

Nice try

"Without that framework everything breaks down and you lose players anyway."
Yeah man, you're gonna lose more players to flame than you will by silencing and grounding people.

Are you this thick every day or did you have too much to drink?
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I have no interest in defining, on my own, what the rules should be. I follow this: https://www.massivecraft.com/rules

I'm also not staff.

By crappy behavior I mean rule-breaking. The stuff people should already be getting warns and mutes for. Rules are rules.

And those rules are there to make the server a fun and welcoming place for everyone.

Also, you don't have to put me down and call me thick just because you disagree. You won't get anywhere by trying to push me down to lift yourself up. "Nice try".
 
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Typhenon said:
Yeah but the difference here is the 'kids' can just leave and never come back
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I didn't plan for the metaphor to drag on this long...

If you give in to players who threaten to leave because they don't want to follow the rules then you may as well let them run the server.

Which I feel might be heading toward getting a bit off topic... so...

PvP chat? In my opinion, yes!

*Looks at active camera, gives thumbs up, smiles.*
 
Thorjl said:
I have no interest in defining, on my own, what the rules should be. I follow this: https://www.massivecraft.com/rules

I'm also not staff.

By crappy behavior I mean rule-breaking. The stuff people should already be getting warns and mutes for. Rules are rules.

And those rules are there to make the server a fun and welcoming place for everyone.

Also, you don't have to put me down and call me thick just because you disagree. You won't get anywhere by trying to push me down to lift yourself up. "Nice try".
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The problem lies with the rules. The rules are kept intentionally vague to leave open the opportunity for Staff to police the rules according to their interpretation. What defines "harassment" and "ruining the experience for other players"?

Hence my statement that it leaves the door open for Staff to define what is and isn't crappy behaviour. And over my time on the server I've noticed that people who make replies such as your initial response are almost always bidding for a Staff position.
 
Synthesia said:
The problem lies with the rules. The rules are kept intentionally vague to leave open the opportunity for Staff to police the rules according to their interpretation. What defines "harassment" and "ruining the experience for other players"?

Hence my statement that it leaves the door open for Staff to define what is and isn't crappy behaviour. And over my time on the server I've noticed that people who make replies such as your initial response are almost always bidding for a Staff position.
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I can't imagine how or why they would bother to list every conceavable example of harrassment or trolling.

And if I want staff I'll apply. Not sure what "bidding" would have to do with it.

Staff volunteer their time and give up the freedom to say what they're thinking. Right now, I'd rather hang on to both.

Since you seem to think letting staff interpret the rules in favor of encouraging a friendly community is a bad thing I think you just have a problem with authority.
 
Giving an outlet for bad behavior doesn't fix anything.

You say the flame will never disappear to instead you want to fan the fire and make it grow? Why can't we change the behavior instead? Why should such a terrible behavior be condoned? I don't understand. Heck a lot of the PvPers I talk to and play with daily have started taking a different approach and have more or less dropped the flame IG. If they can, I know sure as heck most everyone else can as well.

This is a beautiful community with passionate players who want the environment they play in to thrive and grow. Instead of letting the problem exist and grow, tell your friends and faction members that talking that way to other players is not by any means alright. And guess what, if someone else starts breaking those rules, make a ticket. The flame only exists because you fight flame with flame or the people perpetrating the flame are repeat offenders who will probably never stop and just end up receiving punishment after punishment.
 
Aienn said:
Giving an outlet for bad behavior doesn't fix anything.

You say the flame will never disappear to instead you want to fan the fire and make it grow? Why can't we change the behavior instead? Why should such a terrible behavior be condoned? I don't understand. Heck a lot of the PvPers I talk to and play with daily have started taking a different approach and have more or less dropped the flame IG. If they can, I know sure as heck most everyone else can as well.

This is a beautiful community with passionate players who want the environment they play in to thrive and grow. Instead of letting the problem exist and grow, tell your friends and faction members that talking that way to other players is not by any means alright. And guess what, if someone else starts breaking those rules, make a ticket. The flame only exists because you fight flame with flame or the people perpetrating the flame are repeat offenders who will probably never stop and just end up receiving punishment after punishment.
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Oh my sweet summer child...
Do you know why these "PvPers" are taking a different approach? Because 90% of the PvP on the server died down when almost every PvPer quit the server due to an uncaring nature by staff, or being downright bullied by staff, or a combination of both.

"The flame only exists because you fight flame with flame"
PvPers are competitive by nature. The reason most of them flame is because they find it fun. By removing the channel they can flame at each other, you allow it to leak into General chat where all the herbivores live and that's why you have/had such a big problem with flame.
 
Thorjl said:
I can't imagine how or why they would bother to list every conceavable example of harrassment or trolling.

And if I want staff I'll apply. Not sure what "bidding" would have to do with it.

Staff volunteer their time and give up the freedom to say what they're thinking. Right now, I'd rather hang on to both.

Since you seem to think letting staff interpret the rules in favor of encouraging a friendly community is a bad thing I think you just have a problem with authority.
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"Staff volunteer their time and give up the freedom to say what they're thinking."
>Implying players are allowed to say what they think

"Since you seem to think letting staff interpret the rules in favor of encouraging a friendly community"
Friendly to everyone but the PvPers, it seems to me. But it's not like you ever cared about that, right?

Maybe I'd be more sympathetic to staff if there wasn't blatant favouritism and bullying happening underneath the surface, just beyond the bubble of the RP community. Maybe I'd be more sympathetic if one of my best mates on the server wasn't doxed by a head staff member, before the other head staff member told him to keep quiet and refused to do anything about it.
 
Synthesia said:
"Since you seem to think letting staff interpret the rules in favor of encouraging a friendly community"
Friendly to everyone but the PvPers, it seems to me. But it's not like you ever cared about that, right?
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I'm not sure what your definition of friendly is but if it has something to do with getting your way or people letting you break the rules then life must be a very unfriendly place for you.

Synthesia said:
"Staff volunteer their time and give up the freedom to say what they're thinking."
>Implying players are allowed to say what they think
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If I were staff, for example, I wouldn't be able to be as forward with you as to address your problem with authority. Staff also, in striving to be kind and patient, cannot voice their frustration to anyone but fellow staff.

Synthesia said:
Maybe I'd be more sympathetic to staff if there wasn't blatant favouritism and bullying happening underneath the surface, just beyond the bubble of the RP community. Maybe I'd be more sympathetic if one of my best mates on the server wasn't doxed by a head staff member, before the other head staff member told him to keep quiet and refused to do anything about it.
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I FOUND IT! I found your problem with authority! Lemme show it to you. It's right here where you put all the blame on the staff but fail to put any at all on your friend's choices.

Don't bother to tell me what he did now.

I don't really care. (staff can't say that either)

And he must have done something because chickens don't cross roads for no reason and staff don't start doling out the harshness without one either.
 
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Aienn said:
You say the flame will never disappear to instead you want to fan the fire and make it grow?
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NOOOO!!! lol I want pvp chat to be in pvp chat. It should still be moderated, it shouldn't be a sanctuary for rule-breaking. But the conflicts and competitive badgering of the people who are currently pvping should be a topic in itself and have its own channel. I don't want to fan the fire, I want the firemen to have general chat AND pvp chat open and be actively putting out flames WHEREVER they see them.

Shouldn't that be the goal?

I mean I GUESS having everyone be forced to use general chat might make people think about the harmful stuff they're about to say because now EVERYONE can see it... but I doubt it. Thinking before you speak is such a rare thing these days.

The only good effect this may have, in my opinion, is to bring pvp out into the light so new players know it's going on and they can join in. I just hope they stick around after being told they suck, or worse.
 
Thorjl said:
NOOOO!!! lol I want pvp chat to be in pvp chat. It should still be moderated
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I could get behind this but everyone seems to want an unmoderated channel unless I am interpreting them wrong which could be possible.


Synthesia said:
Oh my sweet summer child...
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Look, we can get a lot done faster if we avoid trying to invoke an emotional response. I'd like to help and be involved with the PvP community, I've been trying to be lately atleast. It's not fair of you to compare me to whatever may have happened in the past, and I don't need to know what. Instead of being condescending we need to talk pros and cons. Logic. Lets focus on being progressive and making things better. Dwelling on the past and expecting things to stay the same won't change anything.

We've got a lot more faction players in game staff now too, so we can relate to the PvP problems. Heck there are a few things I'd love to change right away myself but there is a process that must be followed.
 
Aienn said:
I could get behind this but everyone seems to want an unmoderated channel unless I am interpreting them wrong which could be possible.
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It doesn't even have to be unmoderated. It could just be slightly lax on the rules, which once again don't even say anything against flaming. Flame in pvp has died down so much since a year or two ago, no one is as toxic as it used to be, the only things people even flame about anymore is people running inside during fights and the occasional I'm better than you or you guys got destroyed in that fight. Why is this even a considered a bad thing? It adds competition to PvP gives you a reason to continue fighting, a reason to go prove that what that person said is wrong. PvP chat would just make it so the people not PvPing don't take the flame the wrong way and get super offended. If they can't handle somone saying "____ is trash" in chat then they can just leave the chat. If PvP chat doesn't come back staff atleast need to be shown the difference between toxicity and just innocent flame because honestly I've almost quit the server multiple times because I get some bs punishment for just some innocent flame. IT WON'T ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO FLAME IT'LL JUST MOVE IT SOMEWHERE SO THE PEOPLE WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND THE SITUATION WON'T GET INSULTED
 
Lmao if it'll keep me from being banned from the slightest of offensive comments I make then I say bring it back.
 
Aienn said:
I could get behind this but everyone seems to want an unmoderated channel unless I am interpreting them wrong which could be possible.



Look, we can get a lot done faster if we avoid trying to invoke an emotional response. I'd like to help and be involved with the PvP community, I've been trying to be lately atleast. It's not fair of you to compare me to whatever may have happened in the past, and I don't need to know what. Instead of being condescending we need to talk pros and cons. Logic. Lets focus on being progressive and making things better. Dwelling on the past and expecting things to stay the same won't change anything.

We've got a lot more faction players in game staff now too, so we can relate to the PvP problems. Heck there are a few things I'd love to change right away myself but there is a process that must be followed.
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Not flaming, but just like to point out that your original reply contained a mountain of platitudes and no analysis of pros and cons.

"Dwelling on the past and expecting things to stay the same won't change anything."
And neither does running away, scared from the elusive Flame boogieman. It seems the only people that have a problem with flame are people that aren't actively involved in the PvP community. When PvPers try and get a chat dedicated to banter and competition, it gets struck down because of some irrational fear of flame.
 
Thorjl said:
I'm not sure what your definition of friendly is but if it has something to do with getting your way or people letting you break the rules then life must be a very unfriendly place for you.



If I were staff, for example, I wouldn't be able to be as forward with you as to address your problem with authority. Staff also, in striving to be kind and patient, cannot voice their frustration to anyone but fellow staff.



I FOUND IT! I found your problem with authority! Lemme show it to you. It's right here where you put all the blame on the staff but fail to put any at all on your friend's choices.

Don't bother to tell me what he did now.

I don't really care. (staff can't say that either)

And he must have done something because chickens don't cross roads for no reason and staff don't start doling out the harshness without one either.
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"I'm not sure what your definition of friendly is but if it has something to do with getting your way or people letting you break the rules then life must be a very unfriendly place for you."
Deflect. You refused to even consider the thought that maybe PvPers are treated unfairly on the server. Which btw, you've proven by running in guns-a-blazing on a PvP related chat that would have next to no influence on anyone outside of the PvP sphere.

"If I were staff, for example, I wouldn't be able to be as forward with you as to address your problem with authority. Staff also, in striving to be kind and patient, cannot voice their frustration to anyone but fellow staff."
If by being kind and patient, you mean muting and literal temp-bans for disagreeing with them in General chat, then sure. Literally every single person in Deldrimor has at some point been muted for disagreeing with a staff member. And I'm sure the story is the same for other PvP factions.

"I FOUND IT! I found your problem with authority! Lemme show it to you. It's right here where you put all the blame on the staff but fail to put any at all on your friend's choices."
Are you actually implying that DoXing someone is ever appropriate?
1. This staff comes in Teamspeak, after this person and said staff have a disagreement in chat
2. This staff has been vocal about disliking this person, on multiple occasions and demonstrated it through his treatment towards this person's faction
3. This staff member threatens to call this person's mum on Skype, as he sent this person a link that planted a virus on his computer and gave this staff access to this person's information.

"Don't bother to tell me what he did now.

I don't really care. (staff can't say that either)"
Lmao ok
 
Thorjl said:
NOOOO!!! lol I want pvp chat to be in pvp chat. It should still be moderated, it shouldn't be a sanctuary for rule-breaking. But the conflicts and competitive badgering of the people who are currently pvping should be a topic in itself and have its own channel. I don't want to fan the fire, I want the firemen to have general chat AND pvp chat open and be actively putting out flames WHEREVER they see them.

Shouldn't that be the goal?

I mean I GUESS having everyone be forced to use general chat might make people think about the harmful stuff they're about to say because now EVERYONE can see it... but I doubt it. Thinking before you speak is such a rare thing these days.

The only good effect this may have, in my opinion, is to bring pvp out into the light so new players know it's going on and they can join in. I just hope they stick around after being told they suck, or worse.
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"Thinking before you speak is such a rare thing these days."
What is with your obsession with thought policing?

"I want the firemen to have general chat AND pvp chat open and be actively putting out flames WHEREVER they see them."
Why? You haven't actually provided a reason as to why PvP chat would be bad, other than "muh rules" and "muh flame." You even admit in SAME POST that PvP chat would have benefits.

We're proposing what is essentially a punching bag chat room, where people can vent and flame and get all of the toxicity out before it spreads into General chat or festers into a long-term resentment.
 
Although I don't particularly agree with @Synthesia 's way of debating, I think he's definitely swayed my opinion and brought multiple good points in favor of PvP chat.
 
Synthesia said:
"Thinking before you speak is such a rare thing these days."
What is with your obsession with thought policing?

"I want the firemen to have general chat AND pvp chat open and be actively putting out flames WHEREVER they see them."
Why? You haven't actually provided a reason as to why PvP chat would be bad, other than "muh rules" and "muh flame." You even admit in SAME POST that PvP chat would have benefits.

We're proposing what is essentially a punching bag chat room, where people can vent and flame and get all of the toxicity out before it spreads into General chat or festers into a long-term resentment.
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Btw bb you can highlight a block of text and the reply button for that block will appear. It quotes just that block of text and makes your post a lot easier to read than copying and pasting and then using quotes :P
 
Synthesia said:
stuff
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I spend 100% of my time building in factions worlds where PvP and PvP mechanics does effect me so don't play the RP GTFO card.

Thinking before you speak isn't thought policing, it's just good common sense. Thought policing is me telling you what to think. Nobody cares what you think because they're not affected by what goes on in your head. They are, however, affected by the things you say. That should have been a concept you were introduced to early on in life.

I don't really care about your staff story so meh. Just gonna let all that be a one-sided whatever. "DEFLECTED!" lol.

And if what everyone REALLY wants is an unmoderated channel, then I change my answer to no. If that is the case I now see why staff just shut this thing down in such a hurry. In Massive's house you have to conduct yourself by Massive's rules. Get in a skype chat if you want to spit venom at eachother.

So good job. You changed my mind to now completely disagree with you. I was entirely open to some mild taunting and flaming but not outright rudeness and bullying in a channel set outside the rules. I'm out.
 
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Thorjl said:
I spend 100% of my time building in factions worlds where PvP and PvP mechanics does effect me so don't play the RP GTFO card.

Thinking before you speak isn't thought policing, it's just good common sense. Thought policing is me telling you what to think. Nobody cares what you think because they're not affected by what goes on in your head. They are, however, affected by the things you say. That should have been a concept you were introduced to early on in life.

I don't really care about your staff story so meh. Just gonna let all that be a one-sided whatever. "DEFLECTED!" lol.

And if what everyone REALLY wants is an unmoderated channel, then I change my answer to no. If that is the case I now see why staff just shut this thing down in such a hurry. In Massive's house you have to conduct yourself by Massive's rules. Get in a skype chat if you want to spit venom at eachother.

So good job. You changed my mind to now completely disagree with you. I was entirely open to some mild taunting and flaming but not outright rudeness and bullying in a channel set outside the rules. I'm out.
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1) Sorry dude, but we don't care
2) So you're upset that you misunderstood what we're talking about originally, and now that it's been explained to you, you're upset it's not what you thought it was?

You're honestly being no more productive or less obnoxious than synth is.
 
Thorjl said:
I spend 100% of my time building in factions worlds where PvP and PvP mechanics does effect me so don't play the RP GTFO card.

Thinking before you speak isn't thought policing, it's just good common sense. Thought policing is me telling you what to think. Nobody cares what you think because they're not affected by what goes on in your head. They are, however, affected by the things you say. That should have been a concept you were introduced to early on in life.

I don't really care about your staff story so meh. Just gonna let all that be a one-sided whatever. "DEFLECTED!" lol.

And if what everyone REALLY wants is an unmoderated channel, then I change my answer to no. If that is the case I now see why staff just shut this thing down in such a hurry. In Massive's house you have to conduct yourself by Massive's rules. Get in a skype chat if you want to spit venom at eachother.

So good job. You changed my mind to now completely disagree with you. I was entirely open to some mild taunting and flaming but not outright rudeness and bullying in a channel set outside the rules. I'm out.
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Thanks for proving to me that you never intended to have an honest discussion about PvP chat. It seems that any prodding or slight toxicity has revealed you to be a speech policeman and totally disingenuous

Zinc in Silver Nitrate

bye kid
 
Thorjl said:
I spend 100% of my time building in factions worlds where PvP and PvP mechanics does effect me so don't play the RP GTFO card.
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If you are afraid it will have a negative impact on the way you play I suggest the useful command /ch leave PvP.

You said you don't PvP, so don't be in PvP chat. Simple as that. This isn't a faction worlds chat. It won't affect you if you don't let it.

It might be a good idea to have the channel default off, but don't pretend that the re-implementation of it will be detrimental or have a negative impact on how you play the game.
 
I think we should at least give it a try.
Oh, wait, I changed my mind, it seems this idea didn't work 3 years ago when the server was 4 times as populated.
Therefore, there is no possible way PvP chat will bring even the slightest benefit now.
im being sarcastic dont kill me pls
 
jes_ said:
1) Sorry dude, but we don't care
2) So you're upset that you misunderstood what we're talking about originally, and now that it's been explained to you, you're upset it's not what you thought it was?

You're honestly being no more productive or less obnoxious than synth is.
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I'm not even upset. I'm just done. There was nothing left for me to discuss. I don't even care that Synth just called me kid. Makes me feel young again. Thank you.

You want a chat immune from the rules. Aint gonna happen. Feel free to spit and sputter since they didn't close the thread but if a lawless chat channel is the request there's almost no chance.

Good luck! Sincerely. I don't hate any of you. Duh.
 
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Thorjl said:
You want a chat immune from the rules. Aint gonna happen. Feel free to spit and sputter since they didn't close the thread but if a lawless chat channel is the request there's almost no chance.
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I (Speaking for myself) just want a chat where we can flame each other. I know, it sounds bad, but it already happens anyways. To be honest the flame is not even that bad, it just helps improve PVP because it gets people "riled up" or fervorous and gets them to PVP even more and makes PVP more competitive. PVP was ruined when it became "artificial". People started creating PVP bases/towers and creating there own "Raid(Faction name)" factions so that people have a designated spot to raid. People ask and advertise people to raid them and I think it ruins it all. I think adding PVP chat back into massive would help make it less artificial and give people to raid each other and make it more competitive, and can help add more players onto massive and get people to become more active on the server and probably help the server make some more money. I also agree with @Viscar that the chat should probably automatically be turned off so that people don't have to see the flame and people get to choose to join the chat at their own will. Anyways onto the quote, I don't think they want it to be a chat where the rules don't matter, I think they just want a chat where the rules are more lenient so that you don't get muted or banned for saying something minor that is considered flame. Look at this post anyways, people are already being passive aggressive. I mean honestly though, we never know if it will work unless we try.
 
Genecide65 said:
I think they just want a chat where the rules are more lenient so that you don't get muted or banned for saying something minor that is considered flame. Look at this post anyways, people are already being passive aggressive. I mean honestly though, we never know if it will work unless we try.
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THIS IS LITERALLY WHAT I'VE BEEN TRYING TO SAY IDK WHY PEOPLE THINK IT'S SUCH A BIG DEAL, IF IT OFFENDS YOU JUST DON'T JOIN THE GODDAM CHAT!
 
I think there should be a PvP chat, a chat where those who want to rile one another up without getting in trouble can be present, as well nothing to excessive but where you can taunt someone without getting in trouble. Simply putting it if you're offended then don't be involved in that chat, or get thicker skin. I think the chat would be a good idea to have once more, a place where all PvPers can chat despite faction chats where you cannot taunt your enemies
 
dragonixsparton said:
I think there should be a PvP chat, a chat where those who want to rile one another up without getting in trouble can be present, as well nothing to excessive but where you can taunt someone without getting in trouble. Simply putting it if you're offended then don't be involved in that chat, or get thicker skin. I think the chat would be a good idea to have once more, a place where all PvPers can chat despite faction chats where you cannot taunt your enemies
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This dude knows what's up
 
Thorjl said:
I'm not even upset. I'm just done. There was nothing left for me to discuss. I don't even care that Synth just called me kid. Makes me feel young again. Thank you.

You want a chat immune from the rules. Aint gonna happen. Feel free to spit and sputter since they didn't close the thread but if a lawless chat channel is the request there's almost no chance.

Good luck! Sincerely. I don't hate any of you. Duh.
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You need tougher skin, and you need to start listening to other people's point of view other than just going "Nuh, it's lawless and muh rules"

I guess that's why you were always elsewhere when NorthWatch was being raided and everyone but you was defending.
 
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Lets stop with the personal attacks in the thread right here. They are not constructive.

Let me reiterate: I don't see there being a chat where the rules are more lenient. If you want a chat specifically for PvP with the same rules that are placed on everyone else, I can see it very well coming into being. There is a difference between flame and sportsmanlike banter. Define to me what you mean as "harmless flame."

I see you want to call people "trash" or the like but that is far too open ended. I play plenty of games where flame is common place. I have never seen it have a positive effect on the game or the players participating.
 
Aienn said:
Lets stop with the personal attacks in the thread right here. They are not constructive.

Let me reiterate: I don't see there being a chat where the rules are more lenient. If you want a chat specifically for PvP with the same rules that are placed on everyone else, I can see it very well coming into being. There is a difference between flame and sportsmanlike banter. Define to me what you mean as "harmless flame."

I see you want to call people "trash" or the like but that is far too open ended. I play plenty of games where flame is common place. I have never seen it have a positive effect on the game or the players participating.
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But you don't play PvP actively, do you?

Why do you assume that every other game is similar to Minecraft?

"I don't see there being a chat where the rules are more lenient"
Why not?

"Define to me what you mean as "harmless flame."
I will, as soon as you give a qualified answer as to why PvP chat is not a good idea.

Not only have a majority of people in this thread voted for PvP chat, but have also provided plenty of good reasons as to why it should be added. Thus, it follows that some of the Staff replying to this thread are being both undemocratic and ignoring valid points for an irrational fear of flame. Flame that would be confined to a chat that is turned off by default for the average player, and would have no effect on anyone except for those inside the PvP chat.

TL;DR I haven't been provided a single good reason against PvP chat that isn't Ethos or Pathos.
 
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