Archived Bring Back Pvp Chat

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Typhenon

Typhenon

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Don't really feel like writing much, but in short I think PvP chat should come back, Ik pretty much all pvpers agree with me on this. This time it should be a chat you're not automatically in so you don't have to see the flame unless you actually join it. No matter what staff does they're never going to get rid of flame, so why not have a separate chat just for it? This way the "family friendliness" of the server can be preserved because all those innocent little boys and girls don't have to see the flame because it'll be in PvP chat. If anything adding PvP chat back makes the server more family friendly. This is because the flame won't be in general chat anymore, hidden from everyone until they join the chat. Those innocent little kids will be seeing the flame in general chat anyways so why not hide their innocent little eyes from it, by tucking it away in a separate chat :3
 
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To add onto this, all this does is move people who flame and cause general to be a cancer fest and also not family friendly into another chat so they can enjoy themselves there, while everyone else can live conformably in general. Really, I don't see the problem with this idea and if anyone can explain why we shouldn't have it perfectly, just reply with a response.
 
I totally agree with this.., but this isnt the first time this thread has been made. The staff gave a retort once as to why even having it require manually entering and whatnot was still an issue. I dont remember what it was tho.
 
PvP chat doesn't create the toxic attitudes and comments, just moves it to a different place (having it being default off, removing most of the flame from general chat so people who join the server aren't greeted with a bunch of flame and toxic messages, sounds a lot more "family friendly" to me).

General chat is still super toxic sometimes, removing PvP chat didn't remove the toxic and offensive comments, just moved it (still funny to see how some of the worst comments go unpunished on this family friendly server). I'd rather have someone say I'm bad at PvP in PvP chat than General chat.
 
Even when PvP chat was there, players would leave the channel to avoid flame, but then once the person flaming them noticed they weren't in PvP chat, they would then move to General chat. Even with PvP chat, the amount of flame just spilled over into General chat.
 
onearmsquid said:
Even when PvP chat was there, players would leave the channel to avoid flame, but then once the person flaming them noticed they weren't in PvP chat, they would then move to General chat. Even with PvP chat, the amount of flame just spilled over into General chat.
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But adding PVP chat back wouldnt make it any worse right? I mean it wouldnt fix the problem completely but it would help wouldnt it?
 
onearmsquid said:
Even when PvP chat was there, players would leave the channel to avoid flame, but then once the person flaming them noticed they weren't in PvP chat, they would then move to General chat. Even with PvP chat, the amount of flame just spilled over into General chat.
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And that's worse than having ALL of the flame in General chat?

Oh boy, we got a critical thinker here
 
The server rules say no flaming. We shouldn't have to make a chat room just for something the rules specifically say no to.
 
aprader1 said:
The server rules say no flaming. We shouldn't have to make a chat room just for something the rules specifically say no to.
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There are plenty of rules that aren't enforced, like modern structures, backseat moderating, and the whole "Abusing repeatable quests" rule. Hell, there are players that have serially abused that last one and have become Staff regardless.

btw, couldn't find it written anywhere that flaming was illegal.
 
A highway has too much traffic, adding another lane doesn't completely fix the problem, but it helps.

Like I said above, it won't fix it completely but it'll help, and that should be a reason to at least try.
 
Zacatero said:
A highway has too much traffic, adding another lane doesn't completely fix the problem, but it helps.

Like I said above, it won't fix it completely but it'll help, and that should be a reason to at least try.
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There is no rule saying traffic is not allowed. Rules are supposed to be followed and we shouldn't have to make a separate channel for rule breakers...
 
aprader1 said:
There is no rule saying traffic is not allowed. Rules are supposed to be followed and we shouldn't have to make a separate channel for rule breakers...
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Legit i went and looked. There isnt anything specifying flame or even like.. disrespecting somebody else. The CLOSEST thing that could even pertain is...

MassiveCraft said:
  • Do not misuse chat channels for something else other than their purpose.
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But even then it seems like its not talking about general chat.
 
Zacatero said:
Legit i went and looked. There isnt anything specifying flame or even like.. disrespecting somebody else. The CLOSEST thing that could even pertain is...



But even then it seems like its not talking about general chat.
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Chat channels purpose is to talk with other people. Not to insult or flame. If need be tag a staff but I'm 99% sure flame is not allowed.
 
Im sorry i think i misread you @aprader1 i thought you were saying that flame WAS allowed lol thats why i quoted the rules.

@Game if you guys can look at this suggestion. I know yall have seen it before but, if MassiveChat is anything like comparable plugins, it doesnt take very much effort to create a new channel and it wouldnt hurt to try.
 
So, here's my take on this.

The argument for PvP chat is that it takes away the flame from general and moves it to another chat. Fair enough.
The argument against PvP chat is that it doesn't remove flame at all, and also requires some work to do.

Here's my take on it. First off, I hate the term "family friendly" because in my experience that has equated to "8 year olds with mommy and daddy's credit cards are our target group." This may be a tangent, but I feel it should be noted that common sense and holding people accountable for their actions is the ideal way to handle these things.

With that said, I'm in support now for a PvP chat. The reason is it might encourage new players to stick around longer than 5 minutes. When I used to server hop, it only took me 5 minutes of reading chat to see if a community was good or toxic. I do think that even moving some flame from general chat could be beneficial to that.

With this said, PvP chat would still be liable to the chat rules as they stand. This wouldn't be a chat to be able to break rules, but rather a way to move the super passionate chats to a new area.
 
FireFan96 said:
With this said, PvP chat would still be liable to the chat rules as they stand. This wouldn't be a chat to be able to break rules, but rather a way to move the super passionate chats to a new area
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But theres little point if it is subject to the same chat restrictions as general chat. If its off by default, and it has lighter restrictions, then its fine.

Also i dont see a purpose to argue with this... i mean if you dont like it, then you dont have to be in it.. thats the point with making it off by default.
 
Like as far as change suggestions go, if you dont PVP or want to be in PVP chat, this suggestion really doesnt involve you at all, because you simply can not be in that channel. And overall the existence of this channel wont change your gameplay at all, unless you are using it.
 
onearmsquid said:
Even when PvP chat was there, players would leave the channel to avoid flame, but then once the person flaming them noticed they weren't in PvP chat, they would then move to General chat. Even with PvP chat, the amount of flame just spilled over into General chat.
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I can't remember this ever happening.

My honest opinion, I don't like flame, and I believe your faction leader herecy was complaining to me about how toxic the PvP community is. I hated PvP chat and I'm prepared to be alone with that opinion.

I don't think toxicity should be encouraged, especially not when we already have enough of it
 
aprader1 said:
Chat channels purpose is to talk with other people. Not to insult or flame. If need be tag a staff but I'm 99% sure flame is not allowed.
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Hence why we're advocating for adding a chat for that purpose; flame. This would satisfy the whole "Channels being used for their purpose." You'd make a terrible lawyer.

btw flame is talking to other people
 
Sevak said:
I can't remember this ever happening.

My honest opinion, I don't like flame, and I believe your faction leader herecy was complaining to me about how toxic the PvP community is. I hated PvP chat and I'm prepared to be alone with that opinion.

I don't think toxicity should be encouraged, especially not when we already have enough of it
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Lowkey toxicity is way worse than outright flaming. At least with straightup arguments everyone gets it out of their system. With underhand toxicity it's much worse.

'Cause then you get things like Doxxing etc.
 
I was trying to find my last response to the previous time this was suggested and failed so I'll just have to repeat myself.

I am adamantly against the return of PvP chat after the experience of it first being introduced.

1. Yes, flame was allowed in the chat. But many people were unable to tell the difference between flame and outright harassment and constantly were going over the line. This was a big stress point for staff to moderate and every time we had to punish someone we essentially got flamed and screamed at to keep over the top behavior in check.
2. People still flamed in general chat and we had to moderate it more severely. Between this and the above, chat moderation became very stressful for game staff and it caused an increasing player vs staff mentality that I do not want to see again.

In the end we saw the chats get worse rather than better and it caused a lot of strain on staff and their relationships with the playerbase. Even players were screaming for it to be removed. So it was.

Unless there is a good solution to prevent something like this from happening again, this suggestion cannot be considered.
 
Omnomivore said:
I was trying to find my last response to the previous time this was suggested and failed so I'll just have to repeat myself.

I am adamantly against the return of PvP chat after the experience of it first being introduced.

1. Yes, flame was allowed in the chat. But many people were unable to tell the difference between flame and outright harassment and constantly were going over the line. This was a big stress point for staff to moderate and every time we had to punish someone we essentially got flamed and screamed at to keep over the top behavior in check.
2. People still flamed in general chat and we had to moderate it more severely. Between this and the above, chat moderation became very stressful for game staff and it caused an increasing player vs staff mentality that I do not want to see again.

In the end we saw the chats get worse rather than better and it caused a lot of strain on staff and their relationships with the playerbase. Even players were screaming for it to be removed. So it was.

Unless there is a good solution to prevent something like this from happening again, this suggestion cannot be considered.
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So i only existed on the server for about 4 months before PVP chat was removed, but i do recall the general idea being that staff did not moderate the PVP channel. I remember i used to do money games at kitpvp in the pvp channel and never heard a word and i did it once in general chat and got warned. So the overall feel was that staff werent in PVP chat to moderate if they were at all, at least thats what i had been told. If this were the assumption for most players, that would explain the tensions between the staff and players back then. The players thought they were free to say anything they wanted and the staff saw it as just another channel to moderate. So the two groups were being told different things. Perhaps if the guidelines are clearer and there are stricter borders for what is considered flame vs harassment then maybe that would fix the issues you are skeptical about?
 
Omnomivore said:
I was trying to find my last response to the previous time this was suggested and failed so I'll just have to repeat myself.

I am adamantly against the return of PvP chat after the experience of it first being introduced.

1. Yes, flame was allowed in the chat. But many people were unable to tell the difference between flame and outright harassment and constantly were going over the line. This was a big stress point for staff to moderate and every time we had to punish someone we essentially got flamed and screamed at to keep over the top behavior in check.
2. People still flamed in general chat and we had to moderate it more severely. Between this and the above, chat moderation became very stressful for game staff and it caused an increasing player vs staff mentality that I do not want to see again.

In the end we saw the chats get worse rather than better and it caused a lot of strain on staff and their relationships with the playerbase. Even players were screaming for it to be removed. So it was.

Unless there is a good solution to prevent something like this from happening again, this suggestion cannot be considered.
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@Altarion_

1. I think the argument of just turning off pvp chat if someone is harassing you is a valid argument. Same with the ignore button. PVP Chat is more of a way to vent feelings or banter. If said person can't take this, and needs to ignore or leave pvp chat, said person wasn't the reason for pvp chat being made and should just stay out of pvp chat entirely.

2. I am not staff, so bare with me if I insulted all of Game staff, what I could see as a response is..

"Take it to PVP Chat" (first and last warning)

*muted* (however long deem necessary)

Probably worded that little terribly but just my reponse.
 
Nitesho said:
2. I am not staff, so bare with me if I insulted all of Game staff, what I could see as a response is..

"Take it to PVP Chat" (first and last warning)

*muted* (however long deem necessary)

Probably worded that little terribly but just my reponse.
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But that goes back to what I said. See this result would work if PVP chat wasnt moderated (or at least wasnt moderated nearly as much, of course moderation for the super high stuff like real harassment and threats would be there) but if it IS moderated then this wouldnt happen.
 
Honestly PvP chat is pointless, as far as massive is concerned PvP is the same 10 ish people who fight everyday and used petty flame and IRL problem leaks to verbally target other players. My best friend on the server Swift was driven away because of the excessive flame about his IRL life and since then I've always hated it and the people who caused it
 
I am 100+ % for this. LOL, I think I have made several threads about bringing it back! xD
 
Completely agree - +1
 
Might I suggest we encourage friendliness rather than letting the toxicity spill but just shoving it under the rug like california
 
Am I the only person that notices a slight bandwagon effect here?
Before any staff responded, everyone was like "Yeah pvp chat should be back go pvp chat"
After some staff responded negatively to the idea, most people said things like "To be honest, pvp chat is pointless. Why bring it back?"
Then after Muffin's post, in which he said brainstorming would be made, suddenly the pvp chat idea has gained a ton of support again.

Personally, I'd prefer to stay neutral on this subject, as I honestly couldn't care less whether pvp chat exists or not.
 
Honestly nobody will really know what will happen unless we bring it back and try it. It does nobody any good if staff keep shooting down ideas because it didn't work 2 years ago
 
I think staff should be less concerned with upsetting people and more concerned with just squashing crappy behavior as soon as they see it.

I understand player retention is a concern obviously but if you make something a rule you need to enforce it.

Without that framework everything breaks down and you lose players anyway.

If flame becomes a huge issue, turn PVP off for 24 hours. GROUNDED!

Or TP the offenders into a locked room together with PVP turned off so they can just yell at eachother in local til they give up and hug it out.

Enable your moderators not the offenders.

With PVP chat as a sanctuary for crappy behavior and bad sportsmanship or outright harrassment issues will continue.

But that can be said of any channel if it is allowed to become toxic.

If the competitive boasting and taunting (which isn't against any rule yet found) is kept out of general that'd be nice for everyone else.

It really is just gonna come down to moderators either way.

So I vote yes.
 
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Thorjl said:
If flame becomes a huge issue, turn PVP off for 24 hours. GROUNDED!
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That's a great way to piss people off into leaving the server. Shit, when they tried to sanction raptum and deld there was more enough backlash there alone that turning off pvp would never even be considered.
 
jes_ said:
That's a great way to piss people off into leaving the server. Shit, when they tried to sanction raptum and deld there was more enough backlash there alone that turning off pvp would never even be considered.
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Children often throw tantrums when you discipline them. But if they don't play nicely they lose their toys.
 
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