Archived Another Silverwind Implementation System

[FireFan96]

https://forums.massivecraft.com/thr...urning-with-goods-for-pvp-and-rp-alike.38220/

Alright, I've been seeing too much fighting on the forums between two groups, and there's few things we're willing to compromise on. I'm going to try and fix that right now, by listing my own system for Silverwind.

So I'm basing this off off the text Marty had in the OP of the thread above. So if you want information on parts of this proposal, look there for some background.

Ok, we're still here and the pitchforks aren't sharpened yet? good. So here's how I envision the system functioning:

• RPers will control the build environment. This is the basis of the whole system. Silverwind is a RP/PvP map, but the bases are built according to the RP builders. Meaning shanty towns, forts, etc. This is supposed to be anarchy, not some cutesy little town in survival. As for the price, Marty said the prices would be high, so I don't see 1000+ regals per month to be too big of a deal. After all, who said people were going to keep their bases
  
• The first week (or two) of release will be non/PvP and dedicated to building and/or RP. This is to set the mood for the next phase. after renting, RPers and their building buddies will need to build up their shanty towns or bombed up buildings. Essentially this is the "build phase" of the system. After the time is up, we get to the next part.
  
• Sometime near the end of the week, RPers will hire "mercenaries." And here is where the PvPers come in. There will be a thread on the forums, where RP shanty towns can post a "help wanted" sign for mercenaries to take over rival shanty towns. All a PvPer (or a faction) has to do is comment on the thread saying they will work for the RPer shanty town.
• Once the build phase is over, PvP will be enabled in Silverwind. The main spawn will still be a safezone, but the wilds (including the claimed shanty towns) turn into Dodge city. For a week (or so) PvPers can have at it on the map, fighting to defend and take cities at their whim.
  • The Rules of War: These basically function like any other war in the sense that the attacker fights a defender until they are pushed back or the enemy surrenders. However, instead of max tribute, the defenders will surrender the shanty town to the attackers, which will be kept by the attackers for the foreseeable future.
• After a week of fighting, PvP will be disabled and land will be re-appropriated. So hopefully by then end a few mercenary groups would've claimed a few shanty towns for their RP employers. The shanty town that took over the other towns essentially controls those new land claims for another duration of time. RP can commence with this change in power.
• The top shanty town will gain notoriety, and their mercs will get their reward. The whole idea of this system is to be extremely competitive, will both RPers and PvPers getting things as a reward. After the war phase concludes, The shanty town with the most claims will be the leader and the so called "Pirate King of Silverwind." This shanty town will then receive a reward of sorts, such as some lore items. However, PvPers also get some new loot as well, possibly some stronger armor sets, like maybe a Prot V set of armor.
  • Of course, each person will only get one lore/armor item per war. This gives people incentive, as they will want to keep on top in order to collect all the lore items. Plus higher enchanted gear would be very coveted by PvPers.
• The system goes through the cycles again.

So there it is, the brief description of how the silverwind system can be done. All it takes is setting up areashop regions, and then toggling pvp on and off. That's the largest part of staff work form what I can tell. The only thing else that I see staff needed to do is keeping tabs on who has what territories, and then awarding the kings their lore item at the end of a war.

Now a few things I want to answer that I didn't above:

• I don't have 1000r to keep this town running every month. Well, it's not like 1000r is set in stone. For all we know it could just be a measly 1r a month. The idea is that RPers have to pay to be relevant on this map, else they will just die out and be eaten by the next big fish.
• How will this fit in with the lore? Simple: It's anarchy. We don't have to say "the pirate FireFan96 from Drachevault fought off Tigrans and Orcs alike." Instead, we can say "The mercenary forces of "shanty town A" fought ruthlessly, raiding base after base until they all surrendered to them." So the simple answer is, we don't specifically mention anyone's faction or IGN, and simply refer to them as mercenaries (unless any PvPers have character app, in that case they could be mentioned.)
• What if a shanty town takes over every territory on the map? Well, it seems that the RPers who lost need to band up and start hiring more mercenaries to take some lands back. The spawn area will always be a safezone, and mercenaries don't have to be loyal to the same RP group every war. The war politics are driven 100% by the players, so it's up to them who end up the king.

Welp, this is what I have. If anyone has any feedback for me, please say so below. I truly think this system would be a way to find common ground between both game modes. RPers want to have legacies and plots created. PvPers want to PvP. This allows both groups to do that, while encouraging people to get into the action.

 

[FireFan96]

@jes_ because you were really passionate about Silverwind

 

[Nitesho]

@Chalsie

#Hope

 

[Gabauchi]

looks fun, makes sense, easy setup

10/10 imo

 

[Conflee]

I really like this idea for a system. Perhaps there could even be Staff-Assisted events, such as attacks from pirate groups on the port towns, or even full on naval battles in the seas from time to time.

I would 100% try to band people together to raise funds to participate in this.

Plus it could blend into lore with certain groups (cough Storm Crows @Jack_Castle cough) taking part and blending it with their own In-Regalia Roleplay.

Heck, player quests could even spark from this with Roleplayers seeking services from rouge elements within Silverwind.

 

[FireFan96]

Perhaps there could even be Staff-Assisted events, such as attacks from pirate groups on the port towns, or even full on naval battles in the seas from time to time.

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for now I'd like to keep staff intervention at a minimum, else this system becomes extremely depended on "when's staff gonna send in a flagship" and so on. Maybe later on if the cycles become too repetitive, we could look into maybe adding some changes. But for now I think simple is the best approach.

 

[65jes89]

I think the one big thing is that there should definitely be some form of forced surrender, to keep people from doing what they do now in the survival worlds. Otherwise I really like this.

 

[FireFan96]

there should definitely be some form of forced surrender, to keep people from doing what they do now in the survival worlds

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Could you elaborate on this part a bit?

The way I imagine it, once a town surrenders, they can't do anything to take it back during the rest of the war, sorta like max tribute. Whether or not the losing mercs could then be used as just grunt forces for the reminder and not get a reward is beyond me.

 

[CainsTedTalk]

I like it but one thing that doesn't seem fun to me is the taking over land for the price. If I pay over 1k for a plot of land just to have it lost within a few weeks it might cause some drama to say the least.

 

[Conflee]

I think he means like, so players cant just /tp roleplay and avoid dealing with fights. There would have tp be consequences for just letting others run over your land.

 

[FireFan96]

I like it but one thing that doesn't seem fun to me is the taking over land for the price. If I pay over 1k for a plot of land just to have it lost within a few weeks it might cause some drama to say the least.

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I'd agree with that. But on the same note, it shouldn't be feasible for one guy to own the town. It should be a group endeavor when it comes to funding the claims. Though I do agree that the price could be changed to a more reasonable price, given that ownership varies based on wars.

 

[FireFan96]

I think he means like, so players cant just /tp roleplay and avoid dealing with fights. There would have tp be consequences for just letting others run over your land.

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If it's a war phase, I'd actually wonder why RPers would be in their towns to begin with. The idea is that PvPers would be utilizing the bases (if they so choose) during the war, with RPers joining in if they wanted to help out. If you tp out because you're going to lose, then there should be a consequence. However, I don't have an idea of how we could fix that.

One idea is to have some sort of "contesting the point" system for a base, since shanty towns should have active members in them. If there's nobody utilizing the town, then it deserves to be taken over.

 

[Caedit]

How do you plan on getting what little pvpers exist to both agree to fight in a unoptimised arena, for the benefit of role-players whom they already consider completely toxic and beneath them?

How do you plan on getting role-players to accept the help of pvpers whom they either hate, or consider unneeded?

This whole idea works in a utopian society, with communities not ready to rip each others throats out. Right now i'm a bit to cynical to believe the same people who call the other communities "the most toxic ever" will be chomping at the bit to help said communities out by fighting for them.

If it's a war phase, I'd actually wonder why RPers would be in their towns to begin with. The idea is that PvPers would be utilizing the bases (if they so choose) during the war, with RPers joining in if they wanted to help out. If you tp out because you're going to lose, then there should be a consequence. However, I don't have an idea of how we could fix that.

One idea is to have some sort of "contesting the point" system for a base, since shanty towns should have active members in them. If there's nobody utilizing the town, then it deserves to be taken over.

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How are you going to get a contesting the point system to work when it's the dead of night and nobody logs on? Do people deserve to lose their base and their strategical advantage because someone ninja capped it at night?

 

[Conflee]

How do you plan on getting what little pvpers exist to both agree to fight in a unoptimised arena, for the benefit of role-players whom they already consider completely toxic and beneath them?

How do you plan on getting role-players to accept the help of pvpers whom they either hate, or consider unneeded?

This whole idea works in a utopian society, with communities not ready to rip each others throats out. Right now i'm a bit to cynical to believe the same people who call the other communities "the most toxic ever" will be chomping at the bit to help said communities out by fighting for them.


How are you going to get a contesting the point system to work when it's the dead of night and nobody logs on? Do people deserve to lose their base and their strategical advantage because someone ninja capped it at night?

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PVPers complain about the lack of PVP. If they refused to participate in this system, which would directly encourage and support larger battles, then it would just prove they dont really want pvp and instead just want to gripe.

 

[Caedit]

PVPers complain about the lack of PVP. If they refused to participate in this system, which would directly encourage and support larger battles, then it would just prove they dont really want pvp and instead just want to gripe.

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They don't want to pvp, they want easy kills. They want role-players forced into the wilderness so they can grind out kills off them.

How is that not clear enough after they've refused any attempt at compromising for the sake of more pvp? I told them to compromise in some ways, and they've told me to piss off for being "toxic". Their intent is quite obvious, even if they hide it behind fallacies. When the pvp community starts offering solutions that give something of value to role-players instead of just arguing for things to be taken away, i'll change my mind.

 

[FireFan96]

How do you plan on getting what little pvpers exist to both agree to fight in a unoptimised arena, for the benefit of role-players whom they already consider completely toxic and beneath them?

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The end of the war reward and actually PvPing. If they can get items that put them a small percentage above their rivals, that could be reason enough to fight. Of course I don't PvP on here, so if there is a better reward than something like a Prot V armor piece, I'd appreciate the help.

How do you plan on getting role-players to accept the help of pvpers whom they either hate, or consider unneeded?

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If they really want to keep their shanty town, they're going to either have to fight themselves, or hire mercs to do it for them. The idea is to have a perpetual fear in place for RPers, where each war could be the loss of power, which then gives them reason to then try and reclaim territory the next round.

How are you going to get a contesting the point system to work when it's the dead of night and nobody logs on? Do people deserve to lose their base and their strategical advantage because someone ninja capped it at night?

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I didn't say the idea was perfect. Of course I don't expect capturing bases to be a quick and easy thing. If there's a better alternative, again, all the help is appreciated.

Also, try to keep the thread on topic. This is to help tweak a proposal by offering helpful advice , not turning this into a PvP/RP battle like anything else. If there isn't anything constructive in a comment, don't post it here. I'd like this to be a safe place for everyone to share their ideas, because frankly each side has information the other needs to make this work.

That's the beauty of this system. cooperation between both sides leads to high rewards. Arguments and dividing leaves both sides with nothing.

And now sleepy time for me. keep the feedback flowing.

 

[65jes89]

They don't want to pvp, they want easy kills. They want role-players forced into the wilderness so they can grind out kills off them.

How is that not clear enough after they've refused any attempt at compromising for the sake of more pvp? I told them to compromise in some ways, and they've told me to piss off for being "toxic". Their intent is quite obvious, even if they hide it behind fallacies. When the pvp community starts offering solutions that give something of value to role-players instead of just arguing for things to be taken away, i'll change my mind.

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You are legitimately the densest person I've ever seen on this forum, with the possible exception of jeanlucmontou. I don't know what the hell pvpers did to piss you off, but you're either stupid or don't know what the hell youre talking about. What makes you think we want easy kills? I'd rather fight sevak any day over going and raiding the hell out of some role play faction. What the hell are we grinding kills for? There's no benefit to us.

Honestly just screw off or offer something remotely intelligent to the conversation.

 

[diCardinale]

They don't want to pvp, they want easy kills. They want role-players forced into the wilderness so they can grind out kills off them.

How is that not clear enough after they've refused any attempt at compromising for the sake of more pvp? I told them to compromise in some ways, and they've told me to piss off for being "toxic". Their intent is quite obvious, even if they hide it behind fallacies. When the pvp community starts offering solutions that give something of value to role-players instead of just arguing for things to be taken away, i'll change my mind.

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As a roleplayer, if you're salty about Pious John, chill. I'm not quite sure why you're trashing the idea because "PvP'ers don't want this", which I would doubt is true. They want a return to PvP, not "easy kills lol rp'ers suk they drop good loot lololol ecks dee"

 

[Knyxo]

Like it, but there should be a force surrender system, as mentioned before. And I feel like the only way it would be balanced is in a system similar to how overclaiming works in the faction plugin. Every team would have a power bar, and in order to be able to claim somebody's town in Silverwind, the team holding that base would have to have their bar deplete by being killed a lot while in Silverwind, and the only way to fill the bar back up would be for people of that team to be in Silverwind for a reasonably long period of time without dieing. Only when the bar is empty would another team be able to 'contest it' and eventually claim it.

Simply letting people contest straight away without any fighting necessary would be broken, as it'd make keeping a base in Silverwind literally a full time job and nobody could ever log off, and there'd be no fun to be had. Having no forced surrender at all would mean that the whole map is just a giant stalemate. People don't surrender in factions because you can just tp away if the enemies are bothering you that much, and the same would apply here.

I also don't think RPers would have enough incentive to participate in this. Don't get me wrong, it's a very cool event, and I think most PvPers and even just regular factions players would have a lot of fun with it, and it'd be great if RPers would too. Just not sure where the RPers would fit in, since all I can gather is that they're meant to build and RP before the combat is turned on. But, if people have an urge to RP, they can just go to Regalia, and it's not like RPers have to be the ones to build the bases, since PvPers are more than capable of buying their own towns and building them up themselves. Even if the lore rewards are good, 1000r (+ more, for hiring PvPers)is a lot of money to pay just for a chance at winning them, especially when you could just buy them from the winners later on if you want them that badly. And honestly, I'm not really sure what to suggest for that, because I don't roleplay, and thus don't know what it would take to make this more appealing to a roleplayer. Perhaps that's something that could use suggestions...

 

[65jes89]

Like it, but there should be a force surrender system, as mentioned before. And I feel like the only way it would be balanced is in a system similar to how overclaiming works in the faction plugin. Every team would have a power bar, and in order to be able to claim somebody's town in Silverwind, the team holding that base would have to have their bar deplete by being killed a lot while in Silverwind, and the only way to fill the bar back up would be for people of that team to be in Silverwind for a reasonably long period of time without dieing. Only when the bar is empty would another team be able to 'contest it' and eventually claim it.

Simply letting people contest straight away without any fighting necessary would be broken, as it'd make keeping a base in Silverwind literally a full time job and nobody could ever log off, and there'd be no fun to be had. Having no forced surrender at all would mean that the whole map is just a giant stalemate. People don't surrender in factions because you can just tp away if the enemies are bothering you that much, and the same would apply here.

I also don't think RPers would have enough incentive to participate in this. Don't get me wrong, it's a very cool event, and I think most PvPers and even just regular factions players would have a lot of fun with it, and it'd be great if RPers would too. Just not sure where the RPers would fit in, since all I can gather is that they're meant to build and RP before the combat is turned on. But, if people have an urge to RP, they can just go to Regalia, and it's not like RPers have to be the ones to build the bases, since PvPers are more than capable of buying their own towns and building them up themselves. Even if the lore rewards are good, 1000r (+ more, for hiring PvPers)is a lot of money to pay just for a chance at winning them, especially when you could just buy them from the winners later on if you want them that badly. And honestly, I'm not really sure what to suggest for that, because I don't roleplay, and thus don't know what it would take to make this more appealing to a roleplayer. Perhaps that's something that could use suggestions...

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Some type of actual benefit in-roleplay to the roleplayers participating? I don't really know enough about rp to make any kind of decent suggestion on the specifics though.

 

[Caedit]

You are legitimately the densest person I've ever seen on this forum, with the possible exception of jeanlucmontou. I don't know what the hell pvpers did to piss you off, but you're either stupid or don't know what the hell youre talking about. What makes you think we want easy kills? I'd rather fight sevak any day over going and raiding the hell out of some role play faction. What the hell are we grinding kills for? There's no benefit to us.

Honestly just screw off or offer something remotely intelligent to the conversation.

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As a roleplayer, if you're salty about Pious John, chill. I'm not quite sure why you're trashing the idea because "PvP'ers don't want this", which I would doubt is true. They want a return to PvP, not "easy kills lol rp'ers suk they drop good loot lololol ecks dee"

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One issue, that is the main cause of division between Roleplayers and Faction players. Is that their worlds are literally divided. Factions players have About 5 worlds for factions stuff, Roleplayers have 2 or 3 worlds for roleplay. Back when we started massivecraft the only place you Roleplayed was in the wilderness, part of the factions world. Back 3 years ago Daendroc actually had a castle you could go to for a quest. You could actually see the ruins of old bases. It was fun and the game relatively cohesive.

The issue was deliberate division. They have a world for each play-style (Questing, KitPvp, Factions, Roleplay), if you want division gone, combine the worlds. Sure it's simple, but I can garuntee it's never gonna happen. This server has always aimed to please the person who whines the most rather than a long term goal. The instant you put roleplay back in factions, people will riot. Roleplayers are liberals, there's no beating them.

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I rest my case.
*Drops Mic*

Seriously tho, it's really easy. Without imposing ramifications on roleplay community. Just make the world spawns hubs for Roleplay and eliminate regalia. Worlds spawns have always been pvp false. Solutions are right there, but what you just did is a prime example of how the roleplay community is incredibly toxic.

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Tell me with a straight face that the two latter comments, of which are the most common i've seen in the various "Fix pvp" threads, is from a community that wants to have anything to do with role-players.

I know you either can't, or are a very good liar. I've seen a overwhelming ammount of salt and vitriol being thrown from your supposed community at role-players, demanding they go out into survival worlds and be forced out of regalia. Meanwhile any attempts to offer a compromise are met with unrelenting demands that role-players be forced into the wilderness to be mowed down by pvp players.

Apologies if i'm a little cynical but I don't see how if this kind of response is the most common when discussing PVP on massivecraft, this idea is going to lead anywhere.

Meanwhile any type of observation, be it tentative or not is met with insults and claims that "You're the densest person on the forums!" before any questions are asked or reasonable thinking is done about where this observation came from.

You call me dense but you take the slightest attempt at forming a thought you don't like and ignorantly label the person writing it as some form of lower intelligence. Then wonder why people don't like pvpers...

 

[65jes89]

Tell me with a straight face that the two latter comments, of which are the most common i've seen in the various "Fix pvp" threads, is from a community that wants to have anything to do with role-players.

I know you either can't, or are a very good liar. I've seen a overwhelming ammount of salt and vitriol being thrown from your supposed community at role-players, demanding they go out into survival worlds and be forced out of regalia. Meanwhile any attempts to offer a compromise are met with unrelenting demands that role-players be forced into the wilderness to be mowed down by pvp players.

Apologies if i'm a little cynical but I don't see how if this kind of response is the most common when discussing PVP on massivecraft, this idea is going to lead anywhere.

Meanwhile any type of observation, be it tentative or not is met with insults and claims that "You're the densest person on the forums! before any questions are asked about where this observation came from.

You call me dense but you take the slightest attempt at forming a thought you don't like and ignorantly label the person writing it as some form of lower intelligence. Then wonder why people don't like pvpers...

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You understand pokyug isn't a pvper right

 

[Caedit]

You understand pokyug isn't a pvper right

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You understand what an example is right? I could comb the forums for dead threads with simmilar attitudes. Also, do detail to me who qualifies as a pvper or rper.

Either way you're still treating me like your lesser based on a single post. Which begs the question if I even need any examples outside your own to point out how belittling your community can be...

Some type of actual benefit in-roleplay to the roleplayers participating? I don't really know enough about rp to make any kind of decent suggestion on the specifics though.

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In response:

You are legitimately the densest person I've ever seen on this forum

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Ay how about we go back to planning a mutually beneficial relationship between our communities while we constantly belittle and insult each other! Totally helping the cause by making sweeping generalizations instead of trying to restore faith in your community.

Literally look at any recent thread with suggestions role-players have brought up to try and revitalize the survival worlds. They get shot down by several pvpers, with plenty of toxic salt and hatred from both sides. How is it dense to assume the same thing will happen if we try to force interaction between the communities in game? It's the most down to earth realistic outcome of this being implemented, trying to ignore that fact is in of itself dense and ignorant.

Final edit, I swear:

Honestly just screw off or offer something remotely intelligent to the conversation.

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Enjoy your dead pvp if this is how you express disagreement. No wonder your community is lacking if this is the kind of attitude you deem acceptable towards people who disagree with you over a matter of opinion.

 

[Mecharic]

Some type of actual benefit in-roleplay to the roleplayers participating? I don't really know enough about rp to make any kind of decent suggestion on the specifics though.

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They could get their characters into official server lore beyond just being background characters. Maybe also give them lore items? Or Regals to help pay for houses in Regalia? In-game it'll give them more territory to roleplay in & work with, which I'm fairly sure they'd all like. And even roleplayers enjoy bragging rights to some degree.

 

[Mecharic]

Overall I do like this idea, but like Caedit I am a little skeptical of how many roleplayers and pvpers will actually participate. I think it's worth setting up on a small scale - maybe in the sewers via a fight-club type setup where PvPers can be hired to fight on behalf of roleplay characters? - before setting it up on a grand scale.

 

[Conflee]

Also, do detail to me who qualifies as a pvper or rper.

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If you need someone to explain this to you, you dont need to be having this debate.

Either way, this thread isnt for salt. There are enough threads around elsewhere to fill everyone's quota. Take any debate about PVP vs RP or trash talking there, or ill be requesting replies be removed for being irrelevant.

 

[Caedit]

If you need someone to explain this to you, you dont need to be having this debate.

Either way, this thread isnt for salt. There are enough threads around elsewhere to fill everyone's quota. Take any debate about PVP vs RP or trash talking there, or ill be requesting replies be removed for being irrelevant.

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So you're going to throw "no true scottsman" as a sly way to try and discredit my attempt to point out someone using "no true scotsman" to discredit me. While also trying to moderate a thread, telling people to stop arguing and trying to discredit each other. When you're also not a staff member.. Presumably just to try and keep me from pointing out your own attempt to use a logical fallacy... While crying for staff to remove off topic posts, when yours goes off topic to use said fallacy...

Do you see the problems with your post and logic or am I alone on that one? Because if you need me to explain it further you don't need to be debating it. But it's alright as long as my next line is respectful and in bold nobody cares.

Yes I agree we should keep the salt away from this thread. There are enough arguments filled with toxicity where no one gets to the point. So i'll start with the rerail: I don't think the communities involved with this idea can be respectful enough towards each other to make this work. I see it being far more likely that it just forces two player-bases that don't get along together.

 

[Conflee]

I don't think the communities involved with this idea can be respectful enough towards each other to make this work. I see it being far more likely that it just forces two player-bases that don't get along together.

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Cooperation has to start somewhere. Getting them to voluntarily work together would be a good start in my opinion. Its not like Silverwind would be a required thing that players are forced to do. Like everything else on the server, its for fun.

And, if players simply did not participate, well, not much is lost. An experiment is made, and Silverwind goes back to sitting useless. No harm in trying at the very least.

 

[65jes89]

You understand what an example is right? I could comb the forums for dead threads with simmilar attitudes. Also, do detail to me who qualifies as a pvper or rper.

Either way you're still treating me like your lesser based on a single post. Which begs the question if I even need any examples outside your own to point out how belittling your community can be...


In response:


Ay how about we go back to planning a mutually beneficial relationship between our communities while we constantly belittle and insult each other! Totally helping the cause by making sweeping generalizations instead of trying to restore faith in your community.

Literally look at any recent thread with suggestions role-players have brought up to try and revitalize the survival worlds. They get shot down by several pvpers, with plenty of toxic salt and hatred from both sides. How is it dense to assume the same thing will happen if we try to force interaction between the communities in game? It's the most down to earth realistic outcome of this being implemented, trying to ignore that fact is in of itself dense and ignorant.

Final edit, I swear:


Enjoy your dead pvp if this is how you express disagreement. No wonder your community is lacking if this is the kind of attitude you deem acceptable towards people who disagree with you over a matter of opinion.

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Actually I have no problem with the roleplay community, I have a problem with you, and frankly you seem to have a problem with the pvp community. You have offered absolutely nothing beneficial to this thread other than complaining about how nobody is going to use it, or pvpers are bullies, or whatever.
I don't have a problem with people who disagree with me. I mean, I'm friends with mech, and we've disagreed with the majority of the subject matter in the past few threads. I do have a problem with you, because you have a history of taking some sort of vendetta against pvpers on the forums, which has quite obviously extended to this post. I mean, if you need an alt forums account in order to express your opinions, it's probably you, not everyone else.

 

[65jes89]

Cooperation has to start somewhere. Getting them to voluntarily work together would be a good start in my opinion. Its not like Silverwind would be a required thing that players are forced to do. Like everything else on the server, its for fun.

And, if players simply did not participate, well, not much is lost. An experiment is made, and Silverwind goes back to sitting useless. No harm in trying at the very least.

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Anyways, this is pretty much how I feel. Silverwind is doing anything sitting around, it can't hurt anyone to do something with it, even if it's not 100% successful the first go-round.

 

[Conflee]

Anyways, this is pretty much how I feel. Silverwind is doing anything sitting around, it can't hurt anyone to do something with it, even if it's not 100% successful the first go-round.

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TBH if all else fails, it might be fun to also just turn it into a dedicated PVP area with safe towns for some Questing. Maybe throw some PVP related Quests in there too if its possible. But I would prefer a system like the OP laid out more than that.

 

[Mecharic]

@conflicttFTW think you could make that request, considering that post is nothing but salt and irrelevant opinions?

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Caedit, your posts were pretty salty too. I suggest both you & @jes_ delete your argument from the thread. Keep it nice and sweet

 

[MonMarty]

They don't want to pvp, they want easy kills. They want role-players forced into the wilderness so they can grind out kills off them.

How is that not clear enough after they've refused any attempt at compromising for the sake of more pvp? I told them to compromise in some ways, and they've told me to piss off for being "toxic". Their intent is quite obvious, even if they hide it behind fallacies. When the pvp community starts offering solutions that give something of value to role-players instead of just arguing for things to be taken away, i'll change my mind.

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Dude why are you so mean. I had a really productive conversation with a bunch of pvp'ers a few weeks/months back that unfortunately never materialized due to my slowing down motivation/time for work in general. None of them participating in any shit flinging, and not once was an insult issued towards roleplayers. If you are just going to come to a thread to insult pvp'ers in general then you've come to the wrong forum and the wrong server. PVP'ers are an important substantial part of this community and they will stay here whether you like it not.

 

[Caedit]

Dude why are you so mean. I had a really productive conversation with a bunch of pvp'ers a few weeks/months back that unfortunately never materialized due to my slowing down motivation/time for work in general. None of them participating in any shit flinging, and not once was an insult issued towards roleplayers. If you are just going to come to a thread to insult pvp'ers in general then you've come to the wrong forum and the wrong server. PVP'ers are an important substantial part of this community and they will stay here whether you like it not.

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I get tired of trying to reason with people who are literally unreasonable. Fact is this is the first thread i've seen about uniting pvp and rp communities that hasn't resulted in a complete and utter breakdown of communication due to salt/animosity from both sides. I jumped the gun figuring I would be posting about five minutes before someone barged in demanding something stupid like regalia being deleted or role-players being forced into the survival worlds to role-play.

Turns out that didn't happen, first one out of seven threads i've seen in a single week where that didn't happen. Kinda impressed to be honest. I'll be even more impressed if this continues to be true, considering what i've seen from threads outside this one. Generally I like to make posts while also considering context of more than just the thread i'm posting in. If the people who seemed to make themselves out to be my intellectual superiors did the same, they might reckon why I don't have high hopes for this idea. Generally I don't see how anyone expects to be taking the moral high ground when nobody has offered to change my expectations. All i've gotten is more insults, which makes my case stand with even more evidence. Even despite the attempts to rationalize with "Oh I only don't like you" don't really work, because fact is, there have been several role-players whom have exploded more than once with far more passionate and one sided arguments than any I have ever made...

Is it really that hard to understand why i'm mean to a self-proclaimed community that has done nothing but throw vitriol, entitlement, and insults towards me and another community as a whole since i've started posting again? Even in the face of my previous attempts to convince everyone to drop the grudges and work towards mutually beneficial goals?

I hope that answers your question. I don't wander onto threads to insult communities, I call it like I see it. If I am to be proven wrong, like I had requested someone do for me in the first post, I change my position. Right now the toxic and insulting posts are more common on the forums than the constructive ones, and even the attempts at constructive posts usually include shit flinging in some form. This behavior, which can be seen from role-players to, is why the uniting of these communities will never work if we start at a mechanical level instead of a social one.

 

[FireFan96]

ok, I'm going try to try and navigate the last 9 hours of posts to try and find the relevant stuff:

Like it, but there should be a force surrender system, as mentioned before. And I feel like the only way it would be balanced is in a system similar to how overclaiming works in the faction plugin. Every team would have a power bar, and in order to be able to claim somebody's town in Silverwind, the team holding that base would have to have their bar deplete by being killed a lot while in Silverwind, and the only way to fill the bar back up would be for people of that team to be in Silverwind for a reasonably long period of time without dieing. Only when the bar is empty would another team be able to 'contest it' and eventually claim it.

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I like this approach, but at the same time I don't know how this could be implemented without just turning on overclaiming and ditching the areashop regions for faction ones, which I feel could be a deterrent (it basically makes Silverwind another factions map, which while perfectly fine with me carries the faction mentality with it.)

I also don't think RPers would have enough incentive to participate in this. Don't get me wrong, it's a very cool event, and I think most PvPers and even just regular factions players would have a lot of fun with it, and it'd be great if RPers would too. Just not sure where the RPers would fit in, since all I can gather is that they're meant to build and RP before the combat is turned on. But, if people have an urge to RP, they can just go to Regalia, and it's not like RPers have to be the ones to build the bases, since PvPers are more than capable of buying their own towns and building them up themselves. Even if the lore rewards are good, 1000r (+ more, for hiring PvPers)is a lot of money to pay just for a chance at winning them, especially when you could just buy them from the winners later on if you want them that badly. And honestly, I'm not really sure what to suggest for that, because I don't roleplay, and thus don't know what it would take to make this more appealing to a roleplayer. Perhaps that's something that could use suggestions...

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The way I have it set up, there would be equal times between peace and war times, so half the time there's RP and half the time there's PvP. As a RPer, the only thing that really appeals to RPers is well, a place to RP to begin with. I think that a lot of pirate/rogue characters would fit nicely in the Silverwind skirmishes, as it offers an environment that would bring out their potential.

As for the 1000r, I mentioned above somewhere that the price could be changed, and only serves as a placeholder.

They could get their characters into official server lore beyond just being background characters. Maybe also give them lore items? Or Regals to help pay for houses in Regalia? In-game it'll give them more territory to roleplay in & work with, which I'm fairly sure they'd all like. And even roleplayers enjoy bragging rights to some degree.

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Basically this as the incentive. RPers already can make character apps, so having an environment to utilize that app would be icing on the cake. And the lore/regal reward could work pretty well, though for regals it would need to be reasonable as to not cause inflation of the market, since the only money sink in this is claiming the regions, which probably won't do much. But I digress on this as there's a better place for that discussion.


And I think that was everything. There was also another bit that came up, but I can't see it right now and have to head out soon:

On the topic of inactivity with shanty towns, the general idea is to encourage active upkeep of the towns. I don't have to look any further than any RP district on the outskirts of Regalia to show that after some time, people move back to where the people are, and the building just sit there collecting dust. I don't want to see Silverwind as that, where after extending rent for half a year you can walk away without worry. The PvPers during war help to maintain a need to keep active, and thus always creating an incentive for RPers to maintain good relations with them.
If for some reason you are unable to play Silverwind for a few weeks or a month, then it should be perfectly fine for somebody else to claim the town and use it. Once you come back, you can hire some mercs and try to get it back. This concept fits well with the anarchy of the map: You can have it all one day, and then the next day you're on your own without your riches.
Silverwind is the place where the "strong" will survive and the "weak" can usurp them.

(I say strong and weak in quotes because this literally depends on how well RPers and PvPers can communicate with each other)

And I don't know if @Forum could cut out some of the non-relevant posts in this thread to encourage the discussion, but I'll leave it up to you guys.

 

[Beetletoes]

I think the one big thing is that there should definitely be some form of forced surrender, to keep people from doing what they do now in the survival worlds. Otherwise I really like this.

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Not gonna read all that other stuff between this comment and here. But maybe a capture-the-flag thing? Each shantytown would have a banner or something, and you got to take that banner, and replace it with your own. Also fire should really be enabled, to create the whole "burn it to the ground, yarr! atmosphere.

 

[fuithlug]

This is a cool idea

 

[FireFan96]

But maybe a capture-the-flag thing? Each shantytown would have a banner or something, and you got to take that banner, and replace it with your own.

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This sounds like it could possibly do it. Granted yo could still have the ninjas steal it at the latest of hours, but people might be able to steal it back again before the war is over.

Also fire should really be enabled, to create the whole "burn it to the ground, yarr! atmosphere.

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Eh, some people might get peeved to see their builds fall down to fire, especially if they end up defending it successfully. I think it might be best if fire was off still.

 

[Conflee]

This sounds like it could possibly do it. Granted yo could still have the ninjas steal it at the latest of hours, but people might be able to steal it back again before the war is over.

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Maybe have a system so flags are only capable during set times? like, for six hours a day at the height of server active time. IE. 1pm-7pm EST time.

 

[Last_Link]

Neat.

Maybe whoever wins all of Silverwind gets made a king and put in the lore, as well as getting a personalized lore item, like after one side would win a faction war. Do they still do that by the way?