Archived Additions To The Massivebooks Plugin

Helldome · Feb 6, 2014

Since my first Idea topic was locked due to me attempting to defend my idea I have created a new topic which hopefully aligns more with the views of the MassiveCraft staff who, in the end, are the people I am really trying to convince.

So MassiveBooks as a plugin has some interesting features such as being able to copy, lock and unlock books, re-title books, and a few other book related commands. I honestly feel like it could use some expanding upon to allow some more interesting things to be done and to really help books become a more prominent thing on the server in roleplay and just in general. Below I'm going to list some things I would really love to see added to the MassiveBooks plugin.

1. Bookshelves that allow books to be placed on them. This means that bookshelves have a GUI very similar to a chest that lets you put books in the actual bookshelf. I myself really dislike the whole placing an item frame and then putting a singular book in it. That defeats the whole purpose of building a library with bookcases because now you can't even see most of the bookcase due to the item frame blocking it! Plus it just allows for more space to place books and makes for more immersive roleplay when you don't see books stuck in a frame hanging from a bookshelf. The bookshelves would also only accept written books and maybe maps and no other items could be placed inside of them.

2. The ability to name bookshelves so that the names show when you look directly at that bookshelf just like with books on item frames work now. This way in a large library a single section of books can be easily found! This allows for enormous libraries to be built without the need for someone to search every bookcase for their book.

3. It would be nice if players had the ability to change the author of a book so that the author doesn't show as the player's username. I think Author: Rurin Oakenshield is a lot better than Author: Helldome when roleplaying, a very minor thing I know but sometimes it's the small things.

Those are really my big things, I honestly just want truly functional bookcases. If anyone has an idea to expand one of my thoughts, or a criticism of one of them, or a feature you'd like to see added to the MassiveBooks plugin that I didn't list here feel free to make a comment about it!
Also if your vote toward these ideas is a big fat know it would be super helpful for you to post why in the comments because just giving a negative vote with no feedback makes it impossible for me to understand the issues people see in the idea.

Jkk326 · Feb 6, 2014

I like it

Helldome · Feb 6, 2014

Jkk326 said:
I like it

Glad to hear that!

VaseFruit · Feb 6, 2014

The points are nice, but I'm just concerned about the third one. There's no actual need for unlimited books. If they sell out, they sell out, and the author makes more if he wants to.

Maybe the staff could really use these unlimited book sources in quests and such, but it could be easily exploited if there wasn't a limit.

I should warn you that the developers are currently working on the MassiveMobs plugin and some bug fixes around(my guess), and there's a good list of plugins to be implemented in the future, like the brewery plugin(maybe), magic plugin and many other interesting ones. I only remember those two, but there must be a lot more in the waiting list.

As the staff said before, this plugin has a slow updated database, and even if the author fixes it, it may take a long take to be implemented. It would be nice if the MassiveBooks got this expansion, but it would be in a long time from now

Helldome · Feb 6, 2014

andrewnicola I see your point because books can be unlocked by the author the author could use that to get unlimited books, very true. I was thinking of that mechanic for more of quests or newspaper distribution where it would be a pain to restock the books personally. I see where you're coming from with it and it's a rather valid point.
I'm aware of all the plugins and other things lined up, and of course it doesn't really matter anymore about the other plugin, the topic is locked and the conversation was shut down. I was told to write out what I believe should be added to the MassiveBooks plugin so that's what I'm doing. But thank you for the feedback!

Osowiec · Feb 6, 2014

Loving the idea. I kinda felt awkward in the old library. >.>

TylerJG92 · Feb 6, 2014

I like the idea, but i'm wondering how certain points could be added like point number 2 and things, overall I enjoy the idea... on certain things like this, i like to get some massivecraft tech people to give their opinion on it as well, so in that case I will tag Yendor and Cayorion to see what at least one of them thinks.

Helldome · Feb 6, 2014

Chadwick said:
Loving the idea. I kinda felt awkward in the old library. >.>

Haha yeah me too!

TylerJG92 said:
I like the idea, but i'm wondering how certain points could be added like point number 2 and things, overall I enjoy the idea... on certain things like this, i like to get some massivecraft tech people to give their opinion on it as well, so in that case I will tag Yendor and Cayorion to see what at least one of them thinks.

I can see your concerns there, I imagine it would take some magical jiggery pokery that relates to the same way books can display their names from item frames, but yes some opinions from the all powerful tech gods would be quiet welcome and appreciated.

Macintoshery · Feb 7, 2014

I love this idea sooooooo much!!! Finally I can put all my books on display! I've just had them sitting in a chest because the item frame ontop of a bookcase is so silly and defeats the point of spending all that leather to make bookcases!

Helldome · Feb 7, 2014

Macintoshery said:
I love this idea sooooooo much!!! Finally I can put all my books on display! I've just had them sitting in a chest because the item frame ontop of a bookcase is so silly and defeats the point of spending all that leather to make bookcases!

I know right! If I can't see the bookshelves I might as well just put up wood planks and stick the item frames on those!

RaptureVH · Feb 7, 2014

Can't you just have a huge wall of all of your books then a chest of a lot of empty books and people can just copy them? It seems a lot more simple than installing a huge plug-in.

Helldome · Feb 7, 2014

TSORR16 said:
Can't you just have a huge wall of all of your books then a chest of a lot of empty books and people can just copy them? It seems a lot more simple than installing a huge plug-in.

There's no plugin being installed? Massivebooks is a plugin already installed on the server. This is a list of things I'd love to see added to the plugin, as I was asked to list by a staff member as a compromise instead of a new plugin. And no it wouldn't because the whole point is to enhance the aesthetics and roleplay purposes that books and libraries play and putting a huge wall of item frames is just utterly ugly. The whole point isn't just to have another way to copy books it's so books can be stored and removed from bookshelves along with a few other things it really isn't about more ways to make copies of books. Why create a huge wall of item frames when you could just place all those books in a small handful of bookshelves?

Omnomivore · Feb 7, 2014

I don't agree with #3.

-Unlimited supply of books is like spawning in books from thin air. It would most likely ruin the market on books since all you have to do is take a book and clear it, and you have an empty book & quill. Even if there was a 'tax' on it, that would mean that it would have to be a decently high tax, because otherwise no one would have a reason to buy books in market anymore.

On #4 I know that staff have the ability to re-author books. Special lore books, for instance, have unique authorizations. The reason why it isn't available to players, most likely, is that we need a way to track if someone writes and starts dispersing an inappropriate book to everyone. If they changed the author, we wouldn't be able to track it very easily.

Helldome · Feb 7, 2014

Omnomivore said:
I don't agree with #3.

-Unlimited supply of books is like spawning in books from thin air. It would most likely ruin the market on books since all you have to do is take a book and clear it, and you have an empty book & quill. Even if there was a 'tax' on it, that would mean that it would have to be a decently high tax, because otherwise no one would have a reason to buy books in market anymore.

On #4 I know that staff have the ability to re-author books. Special lore books, for instance, have unique authorizations. The reason why it isn't available to players, most likely, is that we need a way to track if someone writes and starts dispersing an inappropriate book to everyone. If they changed the author, we wouldn't be able to track it very easily.

Yeah I understand the whole issue that people are seeing with the unlimited book, I imagine if there was a tax on the author it would be a few more regals than the accepted price of a blank book & quill so that they wouldn't sit there buying books from themselves to get more books. I imagine there would be a way to prevent the owner of the shop from purchasing his own books anyway to eliminate someone from exploiting that. Doing that could also possibly drive up the quality and price of player written books to compensate for the tax they are hit with whenever they sell a book.

On #4 when I discussed that with Yendor he said it may be a possibility to set up Pseudonyms for book authors which I imagine would work something along the lines of the way the chat plugin works in that in local chat your RP name is displayed but if the chat logs where gone back and checked it would say that Helldome has said something in local chat not Rurin. In that way I believe the author of the book could be changed but the metadata of who actually wrote it would be logged. At least that's how I imagine it would work Yendor didn't elaborate on it just said it was possible although it would probably prevent books that had had their author changed from being copyrighted by the player who wrote it.

Macintoshery · Feb 7, 2014

Helldome said:
I know right! If I can't see the bookshelves I might as well just put up wood planks and stick the item frames on those!

Yeah it's rather unattractive to me and from a builder's perspective it's just a hassle! Plus my super efficiency side wants to fit more books into an area so being able to place them on bookshelves allows for the builder and hoarder in me to both be happy!

Helldome · Feb 7, 2014

Macintoshery said:
Yeah it's rather unattractive to me and from a builder's perspective it's just a hassle! Plus my super efficiency side wants to fit more books into an area so being able to place them on bookshelves allows for the builder and hoarder in me to both be happy!

Yeah I totally agree with that! Although the impulse for me is much more for the builder and roleplay side, it's my faction leader who has a super efficiency issue XD

Gwyndo · Feb 7, 2014

1: I like this idea.
2: Seems unnecessary. A library would put everything in alphabetical order. (If the didn't want the issue of people being unable to find their book.) Naming the bookshelves wouldn't really change much.
3: Uh... no. Just no. I'd quote everything the Mod said, but I'll instead just say I agree with them on this one.
4: Seems unnecessary too. On the first page of the book you put the title, who it's to, and your RP author name.

+ 1/4 Support

Helldome · Feb 7, 2014

Jack The Unseen said:
1: I like this idea.
2: Seems unnecessary. A library would put everything in alphabetical order. (If the didn't want the issue of people being unable to find their book.) Naming the bookshelves wouldn't really change much.
3: Uh... no. Just no. I'd quote everything the Mod said, but I'll instead just say I agree with them on this one.
4: Seems unnecessary too. On the first page of the book you put the title, who it's to, and your RP author name.

+ 1/4 Support

On the point of 2 I'm rather confused, do you mean Alphabetical order by name of the book or by author? If by author what if a set of books were all written by different authors and the player was only aware of the books title but they needed the whole series? Now they're running around trying to find each book in the different alphabetized sections. If by name of book what if someone wrote a series of books all interconnected but with different titles? Then the same problem from before arises. Plus I don't really see why it would hurt to have it, some people aren't going to want to alphabetize their libraries.

On the point of four yes of course you can put your RP Author name in the front of the book. Say you're writing a string of books that were "found" in different places written by different people, but of course you're the one writing each one. It rather ruins the immersion for me personally when all those different books say they were written by xUsername on the actual item.

Thank you so much for the feedback I'll look and see what I can revise so things don't seem so unnecessary.

Gwyndo · Feb 7, 2014

Helldome said:
Don't run with scissors. You might- SNIP

For two, I mean by name of the book.
So "Ay"book would be in front of "Cb"book.
But "Cb"book would be behind "Ca"book.

For the interconnected: There could be a section labelled as "Trilogies" and so on... I do however see what you're saying there, but I'm unsure as to how naming the book shelves / being able to see what the names of the books on a shelve are would fix this, considering you'd just go to the "L" section and find your book. I'd say it's immersion braking if instead of having to look for something, you just hover over it and find it. But that's just me.

For the different books saying they were written by xUsername: I'd say that's more META and shouldn't be even acknowledged when RPing. Plus I prefer the idea of the RP name inside the book, for you to read and discover, instead of the META label with their name plastered on it.

Cheers for being one of the few people who don't attack anyone who puts criticism forward.
Friendly Rating Awarded.

Helldome · Feb 7, 2014

Jack The Unseen said:
For two, I mean by name of the book.
So "Ay"book would be in front of "Cb"book.
But "Cb"book would be behind "Ca"book.

For the interconnected: There could be a section labelled as "Trilogies" and so on... I do however see what you're saying there, but I'm unsure as to how naming the book shelves / being able to see what the names of the books on a shelve are would fix this, considering you'd just go to the "L" section and find your book. I'd say it's immersion braking if instead of having to look for something, you just hover over it and find it. But that's just me.

For the different books saying they were written by xUsername: I'd say that's more META and shouldn't be even acknowledged when RPing. Plus I prefer the idea of the RP name inside the book, for you to read and discover, instead of the META label with their name plastered on it.

Cheers for being one of the few people who don't attack anyone who puts criticism forward.
Friendly Rating Awarded.

I can see where you're coming from on#4 that's a valid mindset I'll have to think on that.
As for #2 again having to label bookshelves with signs is to me aesthetically unpleasing. In real life you can look at a bookshelf and see what books are on it and sometimes certain shelves are labeled with what types of books are there. The labels on bookshelves are usually rather small and so having the words show up slightly above the bbookshelf you're look at instead of slapping a sign infront of it to me is actually less immersion breaking.

Thank you so much again for your feedback I really appreciate it!

Dworvin · Feb 7, 2014

Just Felt like sharing.

General usage:

Label a bookshelf with a name tag (The name will then show when you point your cursor on it)
you can open the book shelf like a chest and see the books inside.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using it for commerce:

Turn the bookshelf into a shop (hover over items for pricing / as well as book titles)
Maybe allow copy book for book shelves if you hold a book&quill over a book in the shelf and right click the book is a copy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A already possible way for restocking:

You can place a bigger chest above the shop with hoppers to feed more books into your shelf?
- Unfortunately this idea is visually destructive, so you would just have to restock your shelves. or maybe from the back with hoppers.

Helldome · Feb 7, 2014

Dworvin said:
Just Felt like sharing.

General usage:

Label a bookshelf with a name tag (The name will then show when you point your cursor on it)

you can open the book shelf like a chest and see the books inside.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Using it for commerce:

Turn the bookshelf into a shop (hover over items for pricing / as well as book titles)

Maybe allow copy book for book shelves if you hold a book&quill over a book in the shelf and right click the book is a copy.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A already possible way for restocking:

You can place a bigger chest above the shop with hoppers to feed more books into your shelf?

Unfortunately this idea is visually destructive, so you would just have to restock your shelves. or maybe from the back with hoppers.

Hmmm, labeling with a name tag is interesting but then wouldn't the name constantly hover over the bookshelf? That would be annoying to me instead of only seeing the name of the bookcase you're directly looking at.

As for the second bulletin in commerce do you mean that the books would show on the bookcase without the bookcase being open so they could right click on the book on the shelf? Because I'm not sure it's possible to do that but it's certainly an interesting thought!
Thank you so much for the feed back man it means a lot.

Macintoshery · Feb 7, 2014

Helldome said:
Yeah I totally agree with that! Although the impulse for me is much more for the builder and roleplay side, it's my faction leader who has a super efficiency issue XD

Oh yeah I can definitely see how this could make some cool roleplay scenes or events possible!

Dworvin · Feb 7, 2014

Well no It does say "name tag (The name will then show when you point your cursor on it)" so it will only show the name when you are aiming at it and close enough to interact with it.

And when you right click the bookshelf it opens a storage space like a chest.

When you hover oven an item that is in a chest it shows its information you don't need to pick it up.

if you add a second info box or just add a bit of extra info on the book like you see voting items have that purple text underneath for while it is in the chest(book shelf) you could add your price on it.

so when someone attempts to take the book and put it in their inventory they effectively purchase it.

Helldome · Feb 7, 2014

Dworvin said:
Well no It does say "name tag (The name will then show when you point your cursor on it)" so it will only show the name when you are aiming at it and close enough to interact with it.

And when you right click the bookshelf it opens a storage space like a chest.

When you hover oven an item that is in a chest it shows its information you don't need to pick it up.

if you add a second info box or just add a bit of extra info on the book like you see voting items have that purple text underneath for while it is in the chest(book shelf) you could add your price on it.

so when someone attempts to take the book and put it in their inventory they effectively purchase it.

Oooooh I understand now! That's actually a rather brilliant idea, although I'm not sure how it would be implemented code wise, I'm not sure if it's possible coding wise actually...

Macintoshery · Feb 8, 2014

This needs to be seen! I want this soooo bad!

Joshy54100 · Feb 8, 2014

I would say make the bookshelf GUI the hopper interface, then you can't put a ton of books into only one bookshelf.
Supported besides #3!

Helldome · Feb 8, 2014

Joshy54100 said:
I would say make the bookshelf GUI the hopper interface, then you can't put a ton of books into only one bookshelf.
Supported besides #3!

Yeah I know I've cross number 3 out because everyone hates it. Hmmm, I think yes that might be a good idea!
Thank you so much for the feedback!

Ethanol2906 · Feb 8, 2014

I felt like sharing some of my knowledge here. The GUI that goes along with what you're suggesting would probably be simplest as an inventory, that means it could be no more than 9 slots per shelf and it would be pretty much the same as an inventory. I'm not sure that number 2 is quite as simple as you would think, naming it would be simple but having the name show, I don't think that is. Apart from those points and number 3 (for obvious reasons), I support it.

Helldome · Feb 9, 2014

Ethanol said:
I felt like sharing some of my knowledge here. The GUI that goes along with what you're suggesting would probably be simplest as an inventory, that means it could be no more than 9 slots per shelf and it would be pretty much the same as an inventory. I'm not sure that number 2 is quite as simple as you would think, naming it would be simple but having the name show, I don't think that is. Apart from those points and number 3 (for obvious reasons), I support it.

Thank you for your input, I personally don't know how difficult or simple any of this would be it's just suggestions!

Macintoshery · Feb 10, 2014

I think some people might be overestimating the difficulty of this stuff! I can't imagine that most of these would be super hard to implement...

Ethanol2906 · Feb 10, 2014

Macintoshery said:
I think some people might be overestimating the difficulty of this stuff! I can't imagine that most of these would be super hard to implement...

To be honest, as a developer that knows how to do everything but the name of the bookshelf showing up, I would have to agree. That and the shop thing (for reasons stated by others) are the only thing I see a problem with. Everything else is managable.

Helldome · Feb 10, 2014

Ethanol said:
To be honest, as a developer that knows how to do everything but the name of the bookshelf showing up, I would have to agree. That and the shop thing (for reasons stated by others) are the only thing I see a problem with. Everything else is managable.

Yes yes, number three is a super issue it's crossed out for good reason. As for the bookshelf showing up I imagine it would work the same way that book's names currently show up in item frames? Maybe I'm wrong on that and it's a super difficult challenge...

Krolose · Feb 10, 2014

I would love this to be a thing almost as much as I wish we had enough books to fill that kind of library on the server. My only real concern would be the coding. Now, I'm no expert, but there's certainly bits and pieces of this that sound like they could be a stretch to code efficiently.

Dworvin · Feb 10, 2014

I think this would encourage wrighters and even grand libraries where people go and donate free knowledge to that might even replace the system of Goggling everything you want to know about massivecraft or even minecraft.
Could be rows on history of a sertain faction (perhaps not every faction library has it and you have to explore)
It might even stir up players to want to make the ultimate library!
A regalia library with the worlds info would suck though because it would kill the fun for players.

Helldome · Feb 10, 2014

Krolose said:
I would love this to be a thing almost as much as I wish we had enough books to fill that kind of library on the server. My only real concern would be the coding. Now, I'm no expert, but there's certainly bits and pieces of this that sound like they could be a stretch to code efficiently.

Yeah I'm unsure of what's possible and what's not, you would have to ask someone proficient in code.

Dworvin said:
I think this would encourage wrighters and even grand libraries where people go and donate free knowledge to that might even replace the system of Goggling everything you want to know about massivecraft or even minecraft.
Could be rows on history of a sertain faction (perhaps not every faction library has it and you have to explore)
It might even stir up players to want to make the ultimate library!
A regalia library with the worlds info would suck though because it would kill the fun for players.

Yes, yes! The point is to encourage writers, to inspire them! To create books that are fun to read, and add to the immersion of the game! I want people to put efforts into their books because if they do they know it's going to be bought and placed in libraries all over the place!

Don't just comment please vote if you support the idea! Don't just like or agree with the post please, please, please vote!

Ethanol2906 · Feb 10, 2014

Helldome said:
-snip-

If you want I can code up number 1? Also I did some research and number 2 (naming the bookshelves and have them showing) is impossible without the use of sneaky tricks (spawning an entity inside the block). As for changing the author, that possibly depends on MassiveBook itself.

Helldome · Feb 13, 2014

Ethanol said:
If you want I can code up number 1? Also I did some research and number 2 (naming the bookshelves and have them showing) is impossible without the use of sneaky tricks (spawning an entity inside the block). As for changing the author, that possibly depends on MassiveBook itself.

I mean you can if you want? There's already a plugin that does it so we know it's possible. I just want to see it implemented into the plugin we already have.

Macintoshery · Feb 16, 2014

Why has this been so looked over? It's a fantastic idea in my opinion!

Helldome · Feb 16, 2014

Macintoshery said:
Why has this been so looked over? It's a fantastic idea in my opinion!

Yeah well... I guess arguing about bringing back Blood Lust and removing LWC, things everyone knows aren't going to happen, are just far more important.

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