Archived Accommodating Theft

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Savantly

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What a foul sounding title, Ey? Accommodating theft, which to the common man, is a ridiculous idea to impose. Theft is so taboo, but with good reason. Nothing is more irritating than losing all your valuables to an individual corrupted by selfish desire.

However, as a well-seasoned player. Who's wealth has been taken by many players, in some cases my entire storage. I come to say that theft really shouldn't be shunned by the server. The players, yes should shun immoral behavior, but not the server.

Here is why I believe theft should be accommodated:
- Player interaction, whether negative or positive has been at an all-time low. Every gameplay style has it's own world for the favoring player to immerse themselves with. Survival, as it stands, is a dying community. Factions as a plugin is old, some would even label it as "Archaic". Pvp is diminishing due to a lack of player interaction with the survival world. Player economics is in a very diluted state.

Players who participate in stealing another player's belongings, although is cowardly. Still, involves interacting with another player through the victim's wealth. Stealing other players items drives economic demand, and encourages players to send PvPers after the thief, or in some cases declare war.

- Encourages Gameplay, whether through fighting the person who stole your gear or grinding to replace the lost items. A player will spend more time on the server trying to reclaim their wealth. More hours of gameplay means a better daily player count. A better player count means more newcomers and potential voters for server advertisement.

Here is how I believe theft should be accommodated:
- Theft plugin,
by having appropriate ingredients and the proper amount of regals (Ex. 10 regals, 1 Blazerod, 1 diamond, and 1 gold ingot) the player can do /lockpick create. Lockpicks allow players to have a chance of breaking into a MassiveLocked block and overriding faction permissions. Embellishment is encouraged for a plugin of this caliber.

- Repealing and replacing current rules on theft, requesting that a player does not join a faction to steal should be removed from the rules. All it has done is created more of a negative player atmosphere when things go south. Players should be punished by being blacklisted from factions, and being hunted down. From my own experience, when friends have been stolen from in more recent times. No action has been taken by staff to apprehend thieves. So I push for the motion to remove it entirely from staff responsibility, things should be dealt with the old fashion way. I feel it is reasonable for a player to be stolen from if they cannot fit their valuables into One backpack and an ender chest of space.

Here is how theft should be shunned by players:
- Implementing a bounty and alignment system,
players who have shown consistent "Immoral" behavior will get closer to a Chaotic Evil alignment. By placing individuals on a lower alignment bracket you can then allow individuals with a more Lawful Good alignment to hunt and kill the player with a bounty. Reciving the money placed on the individuals head.

- Blacklisting, Players with records of theft or bad alignment should have it shown on their player info accessed via /seen. Which will show an account of past behavior and allow faction leaders to make more informed decisions on players who'd wish to join their faction.

Again this is coming from a guy who has lost over 100,000 regals worth of materials, gear, and weapons due to theft in the past 3 years of gameplay. If your valuables can't fit inside your backpack and enderchest, you are too rich for your own good.
 
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No but seriously. I think this is a generally good idea. It kinda lifts the overall babysitting feel the rules have over factions.

- Repealing and replacing current rules on theft, requesting that a player does not join a faction to steal should be removed from the rules. All it has done is created more of a negative player atmosphere when things go south. Players should be punished by being blacklisted from factions, and being hunted down. From my own experience, when friends have been stolen from in more recent times. No action has been taken by staff to apprehend thieves. So I push for the motion to remove it entirely from staff responsibility, things should be dealt with the old fashion way. I feel it is reasonable for a player to be stolen from if they cannot fit their valuables into One backpack and an ender chest of space.
I totally agree with this. I mean its one of those things where if you do this and get caught once... the whole server will know. Kinda like a ... Fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me.

- Blacklisting, Players with records of theft or bad alignment should have it shown on their player info accessed via /seen. Which will show an account of past behavior and allow faction leaders to make more informed decisions on players who'd wish to join their faction
Not so sure about this one, because i think that adding it to the seen kinda defeats the purpose of keeping it player based.

- Implementing a bounty and alignment system, players who have shown consistent "Immoral" behavior will get closer to a Chaotic Evil alignment. By placing individuals on a lower alignment bracket you can then allow individuals with a more Lawful Good alignment to hunt and kill the player with a bounty. Reciving the money placed on the individuals head.
I like this... but it seems like it involves coding.......
 
I am of the personal opinion that minor theft should me made legal, but high-profile theft, eg an entire vault, should still be illegal.
 
eg an entire vault, should still be illegal.
I have always believed that if you have an entire vault.. full of valuables... you have the resources and know-how to protect it. You have to make smart choices with ur claims and those who have access to your stuff. With the exception of glitches etc etc..
 
I see where this is coming from, and for the most part agree on almost all points, except one in particular.
- Theft plugin, by having appropriate ingredients and the proper amount of regals (Ex. 10 regals, 1 Blazerod, 1 diamond, and 1 gold ingot) the player can do /lockpick create. Lockpicks allow players to have a chance of breaking into a MassiveLocked block and overriding faction permissions. Embellishment is encouraged for a plugin of this caliber.
I am 100% against having a system to be able to steal from massivelocks. While there are some locks that could be broken into (doors), the ability to steal from a locked chest seems like the fastest way to create 500 one man faction vaults across the maps, which in turn discourages forming factions with more people in them.
 
I see where this is coming from, and for the most part agree on almost all points, except one in particular.

I am 100% against having a system to be able to steal from massivelocks. While there are some locks that could be broken into (doors), the ability to steal from a locked chest seems like the fastest way to create 500 one man faction vaults across the maps, which in turn discourages forming factions with more people in them.
In the example I suggested that materials are used to create lockpicks and that they have a fixed percentage for actually working. This means that you'll have to dump a couple blocks of various ores into materials for lockpicks. Even then you won't know for sure what is completely in the chest because last I checked /he took was bugged beyond comprehension.
Adding a lockpicking system gives the server a stronger RPG image, while also forcing players to think more creatively with vault designs. Some players might create false vaults with the pure intent to waste materials that theives. They may even layer the floor with traps that lead to death.

Alot of powerful innovation comes from negative interaction, which I feel is a push we need more than anything at this moment of time.
 
all I'll say is not all things are created equal. If someone took the time to spend money to protect their stuff, they probably don't want anyone else touching it.
 
Getting rid of the rule that allows more theft of unsecured, unlocked, unprotected chest is one thing, and I fully support it.

A plugin that allows theft from MassiveLocked chest is another, one that I would never support and I doubt most people would either.

Getting rid of the rule is just fine. It would allow people to join factions with their main account and commit theft legally, while also breeding animosity between factions, something I've noted the survival worlds severely lack as a crucial catalyst for meaningful PVP. The proposed plugin takes it one step too far, and would create so much more headache than you'd think it's worth having it.

Pick your battles. The rule removal idea is good and supported by a fair amount of people. The plugin idea won't gain any meaningful traction.
 
I think that quite frankly it's absurd we have an in-house lock plugin, yet there are rules protecting unlocked chests. It would make a lot more sense if the rule would be abolished completely, and the rule would become simply, if you want have your stuff protected, lock it


Also, it gets very confusing when different items are considered legal to steal and some are considered illegal. Not only is there not a list somewhere, but it just adds a whole level of confusion that really doesn't need to be there for something so simple.
 
I am of the personal opinion that minor theft should me made legal, but high-profile theft, eg an entire vault, should still be illegal.
Agreed
Also, I agree with the lockpick idea. To further add to the unknowingness of opening a locked chest, no lock names show, so YellowLoreLock chests aren't immediately robbed. I also agree with the idea of alignment.
 
mm I just sense lots of IG flaming, rage, and nothing like it is right now on the forum. General chat will be flooded, flame wars will be sparked, and more people are going to either leave the factions world or the factions in general to protect their stuff underground. Maybe stealing during a raid would be fine, but breaking into homes while people are offline is a big NO for allot of people. Maybe it would have to work some way pillaging does (Which we don't have enabled for factions here). If you don't have enough power you could be stolen from, but even then there's massive amounts of theft because some factions are overclaimed due to people leaving from the offline kick, or just leaving in general.
 
Adding a lockpick is a complete counter point to the existence of MassiveLocks.

So you want to punish those who dont lock their chests by legalizing theft but then also punish players who actually lock their chests through a chance game?
 
Adding a lockpick is a complete counter point to the existence of MassiveLocks.

So you want to punish those who dont lock their chests by legalizing theft but then also punish players who actually lock their chests through a chance game?
I totally agree that the lockpicking idea is counterproductive to what else massive has..

But @Kaezir whats your opinion on revoking the theft from unlocked chests rule? Because, to me, it seems extremely ridiculous that we have such a beautiful plugin like Massivelock to be able to lock our stuff, but yet we have rules protecting unlocked chests?

(And similarly, but on a different topic, we have rules protecting unclaimed land, yet our entire survival world experience revolves around FACTIONS, a plugin specifically designed BY MASSIVECRAFT, to claim land)
 
I totally agree that the lockpicking idea is counterproductive to what else massive has..

But @Kaezir whats your opinion on revoking the theft from unlocked chests rule? Because, to me, it seems extremely ridiculous that we have such a beautiful plugin like Massivelock to be able to lock our stuff, but yet we have rules protecting unlocked chests?
I am not entirely for it.

This will just encourage faction hopping and taking advantage of players. As he put it, it would breed animosity. Which I don't see why such a thing would be good to condone. Just because an inexperienced faction was robbed, it doesnt mean they will suddenly have the urge to become seasoned PvPers.

Theft is a bad behaviour, no matter how you look at it.
 
I agree that the rule on theft from unlocked chest should be trashed


Not the lock picking thing though because if someone does that to my vault, they're dying
 
Once somebody decides to be a douche, and hop around stealing stuff, they will be known to the community and nobody will invite them.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me
 
I just don't know why we arent encouraging people to lock their stuff, instead of giving them excuses to leave their stuff unlocked and vulnerable.
 
Once somebody decides to be a douche, and hop around stealing stuff, they will be known to the community and nobody will invite them.
Guarentee you everyone forgets in like two-three weeks. If not, name change. And I dont want to namemc everyone interested in joining my faction.

I just don't know why we arent encouraging people to lock their stuff, instead of giving them excuses to leave their stuff unlocked and vulnerable.
Maybe if it benefitted the community but all it benefits are people willing to do what no one wants them to do in the first place. Players already learn to lock their stuff after being stolen from. But we shouldnt give the thieves a free get of jail card. If you want to teach people to lock their chests, be proactive. Help new players, remind people who join your faction.

It is summarized as this: Player A steals from player B. Instead of punishing Player A you would rather them be completely ostracized from the community and unite against them so they cant join another faction to steal even though it was made legal in the first place. They might as well be punished and banned at that point no?

I am curious to see other game staff perspective on this however.
 
Just because something is legal, doesn't mean it isnt frowned upon.

All I'm saying is, it makes no sense to have developed such a great plug-in like we have, if we are just going to protect those who don't use it anyway
 
Currently the rules only protect against mass theft and faction hopping theft. This means that if you are in a faction for under about 2 weeks then you aren't allowed to steal from that faction. If you steal from unlocked chests after that point then it is seen as owner failure to protect those items (again exception being mass theft).

Mass theft, for those who don't understand, is stealing so many items from an individual that recovery for them would be next to impossible and ruins their gameplay experience as they have essentially lost everything. Key example is when several players took a vendetta to loot all items from Mecharic's storage a year or so ago.
 
Currently the rules only protect against mass theft and faction hopping theft. This means that if you are in a faction for under about 2 weeks then you aren't allowed to steal from that faction. If you steal from unlocked chests after that point then it is seen as owner failure to protect those items (again exception being mass theft).

Mass theft, for those who don't understand, is stealing so many items from an individual that recovery for them would be next to impossible and ruins their gameplay experience as they have essentially lost everything. Key example is when several players took a vendetta to loot all items from Mecharic's storage a year or so ago.
Sure, but stealing about 10 stacks of coal blocks a dozen uncommon lore items and 6 or so stacks of laps blocks should not be considered mass theft.

Part of the issue is that there is no defined line of mass theft. A doublechest of coal ores to some is years of occasional mining. To someone like me, who knows how to utilize every mining mechanic available the server it is no more than an hour of work.

Also, I'd argue that joining a faction to steal should be allowed. Espionage is an essential aspect to mmorpgs that are done right. Making it a bannable offense suffocates conflict. Where there is no conflict, things tend to get boring. Some of my favorite times on the server was raiding sunkiss because a member of theirs abused ally perms and stole over 10 double chests of voting lore drinks. Unfortunatetly, doing so is a punishable offense.
 
Some of my favorite times on the server was raiding sunkiss because a member of theirs abused ally perms and stole over 10 double chests of voting lore drinks. Unfortunatetly, doing so is a punishable offense.
Abusing ally perms for theft is illegal... but there are lots of things ive seen people do with ally perms that enemies cant ;)
 
All I can see from this is anarchy.
While I see where you are coming from, I enjoy the idea, however I promise there are players, and factions alike that would turn into thieving guilds, I imagine insani as one and that's just not pretty. Guild would form on the concept of theft and hide behind allies like solarian. Thieving would, we'll be thriving. People would steal consistently and cause massive issues.


Although I do enjoy the idea actually, now that I think about it. That would cause an economic fluctuation and could stimulate player interaction.
 
I said it before and i'll say it again... Isnt it crazy it is that we have a custom built lock plugin, professionally made specifically for our server.... yet we have rules protecting unlocked chests? Likewise, how the core plugin of our server, factions, is in-house, and can be designed for us... yet we have rules protecting unclaimed land! That just doesnt make sense!

Also I agree with @pokyug. The rule "mass theft is when you take so much that a person cant survive" or whatever it is... Well if i take two dubs of diamond blocks from @Gethelp he probably wouldnt notice... but for others it would be terrible! There isnt any way to tell.
 
The irony here (or not) is that I'm pretty sure I once kicked Pokyug out of my faction for theft and then had him hunted by mercenaries. This was like 3 years ago though so I'm sure he's changed his ways. Clearly.
 
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Likewise, how the core plugin of our server, factions, is in-house, and can be designed for us... yet we have rules protecting unclaimed land! That just doesnt make sense!

Unclaimed land is fair game and there are no rules protecting it. The only exception to this was during the massive bug where everyone's factions were deleted and unclaimed.
 
Pokyug like how is trying for an unban
Nah, sick of getting permabanned over minor offenses. Plus I seldom use my computer anymore, and when I do it's to use my printer to make invoices for my online business.

The irony here (or not) is that I'm pretty sure I once kicked Pokyug out of my faction for theft and then had him hunted by mercenaries. This was like 3 years ago though so I'm sure he's changed his ways. Clearly.

Yep, three years ago my leader sent me into your faction to spy. My mission was to pull the lever to the front gate and let the my leaders in Renegades slaughter your citizens. Unfortunately I was caught stealing supplies from the mining chest.
All I can see from this is anarchy.
While I see where you are coming from, I enjoy the idea, however I promise there are players, and factions alike that would turn into thieving guilds, I imagine insani as one and that's just not pretty. Guild would form on the concept of theft and hide behind allies like solarian. Thieving would, we'll be thriving. People would steal consistently and cause massive issues.


Although I do enjoy the idea actually, now that I think about it. That would cause an economic fluctuation and could stimulate player interaction.

While it is true that thriving guilds would flourish, the opposite is also true. Factions that are lead by leaders who are more morally inclined may employ members to steal from thieves, have members make traps in their vaults along with false vaults. I can garuntee that you'd see some really awesome innovation from players.

I said it before and i'll say it again... Isnt it crazy it is that we have a custom built lock plugin, professionally made specifically for our server.... yet we have rules protecting unlocked chests?
I completely agree, the chest lock plugin is an awesome regal money sink that people have rarely utilized. Players with massive storage just claim with an alt faction and deny everyone perms. I know becaise I was one of those people and most my friends did the same. If you don't have the time or resources to protect your stuff you shouldn't deserve to have it. I think it's simple.
 
After some discussion with Direction and Game Staff, we have decided to update the rules.

Minor theft is once again allowed, even if someone has only just joined a faction. Lock your chests and teach your members how to lock their chests in order to prevent theft. We have MassiveLock for a reason.

Mass theft is still not allowed and a rule clarifying this has been added to the wiki.

This can be seen here:

https://wiki.massivecraft.com/Massive_Rules#Respect_the_Freedoms_and_Rights_of_other_players
 
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